VVV Mars VG
Member
No excuses from me, I say it as I see it.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
No excuses from me, I say it as I see it.
Tripolygon
Banned
No we are not talking about the same thing. OP said GT lighting was baked, this is done before the final game is printed on disk. You are saying it is pre-computed at runtime and caching the shadows. This is also wrong, GT shadows and lighting is all realtime, the amount of space it will take on disk to prebake 8 variations of time on every track is ridiculous. I would assume it is best to use realtime lighting as in previous GT games but lock it rather than transition during gameplay.
GoldenCrow
Member
Too much effect kills effect
They really need to tone down the wiper vibration. I really like the effect when it comes to the cables inside some cars but that is not how wipers react unless broken.
skyfinch
Member
https://youtu.be/mufI4gMN91I
Although not as exaggerated as fm7, you can clearly see them moving in this vid.
Insane Metal
Member
F7 looks great, loving it.
And it still makes me sad how much worse GTS's sounds are. They improved a lot but it's still far behind.
And it still makes me sad how much worse GTS's sounds are. They improved a lot but it's still far behind.
Stillmatic
Member
Seems they're rendering car shadows seperately from the environments?
It's the first FM that has impressed me from a visual standpoint. Lighting is hugely improved and they're starting to close the gap there, but still have some work to do.
Shin
Banned
Something something racing, cars something something: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZmN3PCHrl8
F7 looks great overall, DC on rainy stage looks better compared to the former but only the rainy stage IMO.
F7 looks great overall, DC on rainy stage looks better compared to the former but only the rainy stage IMO.
Forza would look drastically better if it had SSR on the track surface. Or make it work for everything in the scene if reflections for cars already use it.(do they?) Lots of stuff that are near the track like cones look like they're floating.
Here the barrier on the right of the car looks like it's floating without SSR that would ground it. Bothers me every time I see this clip.
thelastword
Banned
4k vs 1080p, Driveclub is still superior.........
Here's what I'm seeing.
During the weather scenes, there's hardly any light sources reflected on the cars in F7.
The cars don't look wet during wet weather in Forza 7
There is much more detail on track in DC, draw distance + trackside detail is superior in DC.
Looking at the three Direct feed videos from Gamersyde.
There are no headlights whilst going through dark tunnels in F7
Lots of shader aliasing in F7, though the 4k resolution reduces it, but quite visible nonetheless.
Some low rez textures whilst driving on tracks, don't know if it's a lod issue, but Some of the texture work looks very sharp...
Generally on F7.....
4k helps the game, but the lighting is still not impressive., so yes, IQ is better.
Materials and PBR got a touch up but it's still not as realistic as the top slot racers for graphics.
Self_Destructive
Member
Then there's the big one in Forza's favor over Driveclub
60fps vs 30fps. It's not even comparable. And F7 DOES look better than the muddy clay looking crap that is Driveclub. Gifs look nice.. on a 60'' tv.. its easy to see how bad it can look.
NullPointer
Member
True on the 60fps front. But I do game on a 60" TV, from five feet away, and DriveClub is still hands down the most glorious racing game I've ever seen.
But yeah, 60fps vs 30fps, and sacrifices are made to get that 60fps, and then you have general stylistic differences and teams with different strengths. I doubt Forza would ever look like DriveClub, even at 30fps because Turn 10 likes their cleaner and more saturated look.
drotahorror
Member
You could say the same for any 1080p game. 1080p on a 60" TV doesn't look very clean.
Driveclub still the best looking racing ever made.
thelastword
Banned
Yes, very well. Hitting 4k and 60fps...There would naturally be some sacrifices made in F7....but I do realize that X1X is more powerful over PS4 and XB1 and that F7 will have superb IQ once they can kill the shimmering....
We should also keep in mind that because of the PS4 GPU and EVO's first game on PS4 some sacrifices had to be made to DC's initial goal of 60fps, however with engine maturity, I have no doubt that a new DC would be 60fps on the PS4/PS4 PRO....It never drops a frame as it is, so who knows how well it runs unlocked.
Another comparison...
Vid
Notice the superiority in lighting, trackside detail and even sound/immersion.....notwithstanding sense of speed is probably the best in a racer to date.
Now what XB1X is doing is taking the Forza formula and pushing it to 4k, but the lighting is still flat, track detail and weather is still several slots below DC...Now of course DC is already superior graphically, but if it got a rez boost just like Forza got, on the PRO with 16xAF, touched up textures and improved AA, it would look a gen ahead because of the IQ boost alone.....Even now, just look at 1080p DC vs 4k Forza, just look at DC's graphics; lighting, reflections, cars, trackside detail, weather, attention to detail on everything like wet cars, headlights, expansive tracks..If you're not seeing the superior graphics, I don't know what to tell you...
Self_Destructive
Member
I'm not sure, and I'm not gonna bother speculating on that. Driveclub looks impressive. I have no problem admitting that... it's just that it really breaks down when you actually examine it. The higher res and cleaner you try to make it, the more the flaws become apparent. I really don't like how the environments look most of the time.. and the weather effects look great, but they are also exaggerated to cover up flaws as well.
I think that Forza 7 is a good upgrade over FM6 considering the hardware the engine is based around, and I truly think that when Forza gets the lighting just right, and gets the engine to the point where it can handle dynamic weather and TOD... then I think you're gonna see why they focused on the image quality and smaller details.
Forza imo still has a ways to go with its presentation. Their replays are nowhere near the level of Gran Turismo Sport, and they need to work on little quirks such as some of the shadows and track details. But GT has its own issues that ruin it for me at a certain point.
I think GT and Forza are converging on the same output, they're just taking different approaches in getting there.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
lol holy shit!
thelastword
Banned
People say it's weather, but it's not just weather that makes DC look good, it's the lighting, it's the wide and large levels, the draw distance....the sense of speed..
The attention to detail like wet cars, proper reflections from the environment, reflections from light sources like brake lights, headlights, brake calipers, reflections in mirrors...People like to denounce the India track, but that is one of the most impressive to me because of it's lighting.....Having been to that part of the world some years ago, I can say that they mimic the detail of an Indian track quite accurately, so authentically it's pretty much an accurate representation.
Dash detail and animations are pretty good and materials and modelling in DC is pretty ace on the cars, it has some of the best reflections I've seen in a racer and the best lighting...(GT is arguable)...Tbh, I think Attention to detail is what puts DC above other racers.
Some of the issues you may have with DC are pretty much GPU issues tbh, clearly a lack of bandwidth on Vanilla PS4...or could be solved with a new game in the series....better AF, better AA (still it's not a jaggy game by any stretch) and perhaps some higher rez textures in parts...Still, zoomed up enviro shots from DC hold out better than so many other racers, you question if it was ever an issue to begin with...
sems4arsenal
Member
I have both but imo GTS edges it in this department.
Driveclub lighting completely fails at portraying a bright sunny day.
Woodchipper
Member
Wait a minute. No tire marks? That's a downgrade from GT6...
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
Lolwut?
Some of y'all are mad extra on here.
ANYYYYYWAY
I think Forza 7 looks incredible. It's like a slightly improved looking Horizon 3 (which I thought looked a bit better than Forza 6 & APEX). The lighting model is definitely better but they're still tailing GTS.
I'll still never forgive Sony for not giving DC and DCVR proper Pro support. Fucking shame.
immortald3ath
Member
The only track that has that muddy clay look is the Indian track but i understand what you're saying. And yes I do agree, Forza 7 does look more realistic than driveclub. Gran Turismo has always been the most realistic looking racer and still is but Forza 7 has definitely gotten a lot closer.
Sebmugi
Member
Sebmugi
Member
This is not the final version.. I mean, if he only misses that, it then we are good
I had not seen, I concentrated on the plume of smoke ^^
LostDonkey
Member
Yeah I got driveclub recently and even on a measly 42 inch it looks jagged and blurry. There are times when it looks great but only for fleeting moments, Overall FH3 looks superior to me.
Also some of you must have never been in a proper race car. Everything rattles like the susoension is made of bricks. It's very uncomfortable.
Also some of you must have never been in a proper race car. Everything rattles like the susoension is made of bricks. It's very uncomfortable.
I guess photos are one way to achieve photorealism.
kostacurtas
Member
There are tire marks even now in the beta.
Sebmugi
Member
The "spatialized" photos go faster to produce than to model everything in 3D, for the menus it is an excellent idea and the rendering is simply magnificent oO
Some automaker would be interested in a rendering like this to propose the colors of cars to customers
Self_Destructive
Member
Have you watched an Nvidia keynote lately? The stuff they have for the automotive industry smashes this. They've been doing it for a while now.
I get that, but it just doesn't blend together well enough; reminds me of NFS 2015's attempt at compositing your custom vehicle into their FMV sequences.
I totally dig the concept though.
Apex
Member
Are there but rendered in a more realistic way, so are subttle and only when they should appear.
sankt-Antonio
Banned
Did Driveclub ever receive a "pro" patch for 4k cb rendering?
LostDonkey
Member
Afaik all it ever got was this:
Driveclub - Frame-rate already locked 30fps, no improvement. Motion blur sometimes slightly improved.
drotahorror
Member
I remember when Evo said the game was running well above 30fps, but not well nough to uncap the framerate or shoot for 60. Maybe the Pro could have done 60fps/1080p. It's really hard to say though.
LostDonkey
Member
Some AA or downsampling solution would have been nice for the jaggies.
Not too bothered about the 30fps personally seeing as it is absolutely solid,never drops a beat in any situation. A fluctuating framerate would spoil the game imo. It also depends wether the fluid simulation, environments and whatnot is tied to the 30fps so it might break the game any higher.
Jesus Christ... the orginal fake news BS from Driveclub threads still continues to be brought up today.
Show me an example of another racer not named GT that has better looking day time lighting. More photo realistic. That's not baked.
"Fails"? What the fuck have you developed in your life that can even come close?
Do you actually think this is a reasonable response?
Head.spawn
Junior Member
I think thats the entire point. It's supposed to be super-fine sand flowing across the track.
It looks like they're going for this effect, which happens to look like crap in that compressed to hell gif. You can see it best around the 0:15.
It'll certainly look better and have more clarity between sand pixels on a proper 4k display coming directly from the console.
I'd be willing to pay for a Pro patch at this point.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
How is this kind of behavior even tolerated here?"F7 DOES lok bEttErZ tHan tHe mUdDy cLay loKiNg kRap tHat iS cLuBdRiVe!"
But yeah, Driveclub is far from looking like crap.
Self_Destructive
Member
"F7 DOES lok bEttErZ tHan tHe mUdDy cLay loKiNg kRap tHat iS cLuBdRiVe!"
Driveclub depends on its blur and it's weather to cover up its flaws.
It obviously looks better in motion..
but it has it's problems.
That's like the ugliest screenshot I've ever seen from DC, lol.
But yeah, people posting gifs to show how much better a game looks, specially replay gifs, makes zero sense to me. In fact this whole thread makes zero sense to me since it has has turned into a fanboy war instead of highlighting what a given game does great.
But yeah, people posting gifs to show how much better a game looks, specially replay gifs, makes zero sense to me. In fact this whole thread makes zero sense to me since it has has turned into a fanboy war instead of highlighting what a given game does great.
"F7 DOES lok bEttErZ tHan tHe mUdDy cLay loKiNg kRap tHat iS cLuBdRiVe!"
Didn't realise I logged in to Gamefaqs. Jesus.
Apex
Member
Yes that's the intended effect but it looks bad even in the gamersyde 4K vids. At the distance they look like static sand pools at ground level, but when the car gets close and pass through them they are like low-res 2D sprites with no interaction. It reminds me of the old school arcades.
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