nkarafo
Member
You make it sound like the slow fps is the only reason why this game looks so good.
Not all 30fps racing games look that good.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
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Not all 30fps racing games look that good.
How do you equate his statement to mean that all 30fps games look good? He's just saying that between 30 and 60fps, the developers will always put to use the leverage gained by cutting the framerate in half. Look at the difference between Forza 5 and Horizon 2. Same engine, half the framerate.
To input my real world view on how snow looks when driving. First the snow is only visable infront of the headlights and if you drive at say 70km/h or faster every snow flake looks like a falling star when hit by the lights ie it looks like light trails. Most of the flakes also bend upwads just before they hit you car. DCs snow flakes do not look like how real snow behaves.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Also a year of development time on a relatively mature engine vs. a rush to the launch with unfinished hardware specs and development tools.
I'm fine with both 30 fps and 60 fps if done well, and depending on what the game is trying to accomplish. It's easier to get good, responsive gameplay at 60, just as it's easier to get spectacular visuals at 30.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
That PC v Driveclub comparison is mind blowing. I knew that Driveclub looked better but , Christ, it buries PC. And there are actually people saying PC looks more realistic in the Youtube comments! Some people must have very odd vision.
Talking about that, yesterday I had a pretty agressive discussion with people who thinks that Forza 5 have better illumination than DC.
People can be amazingly blind sometimes : /
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I just find it weird. It's actually pretty scary to consider that level of denial in a person. They MUST see it really ... surely?
Well, there are people who prefer crushed blacks over the right settings, so...
Its nothing to do with eyesight. Its rabid fanboyism.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Is it that or is it something else? It's easy to use the 'fanboy' argument and most of the time it CAN be boiled down to something that simple, but is there something else going on too? A desperate need to justify spending money on a console/game?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Isn't that fanboyism?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
No, I wouldn't call it fanboyism, I'd just call it a natural reaction to realising a mistake you can't rectify easily, like having a haircut that you hate and having to learn to love it more than the cut you originally wanted because you can't put hair back. In one circumstance there is NO choice just blindly following a brand and in the other there IS a choice but you feel you made the wrong choice and need to make yourself feel better through denial.
Believe me, that was one of the few moments I get worried for someone over internet.
I can say I was kinda shocked.
For what they said, they just dont understand light behaviour.
They find the permanent blinding sun flash and road light reflection to be more realistic
than not having any light effect if the sun is not in position to do so.
What I find funny, is that no one was on my side. I was alone on my argument against 2 or 3 of them. So I became the fanboy there and automatically I couldnt be right because of that.
Internet is so beautiful sometimes.
Love that analogy : D
I don't know what else to call it to be honest. But if someone tells me Horizon 2 looks better than DC, they straight up lying. This is just from a purely visual standpoint. So yeah it may be down to console purchases or defending it. Hardcore fans in some cases will defend their platform of choice till the cows come home.
Scaramanger
Member
Just an observation but isn't your assertion that they've made a purchase mistake as equally leaning towards a fanboy tendency?
Honestly I think a lot of this just comes from rose tinted spectacles. If you have a game you love you will always overlook the worst and big up the best. Its very easy to convince yourself that the best of one is representative whilst the worst of the other is also, especially if you can pick and choose to only look at certain videos/pics.
The only opinions that should matter to anyone should be their own! I don't know why people feel the need to try and convince others all the time?
Edit: the other thing of course is that for some people 'best' doesn't necessarily mean 'most real'.
Scaramanger
Member
See my opinion is the same as yours (that DC is better looking than FH2) but I wouldn't call someone a liar who disagrees! They may have a different set of priorities as to what makes something the better looking, who am I to tell them they are wrong? The problem with terms like best/better is that they are subjective and therefore there is no 'right' answer.
1: I have DC and not FH2. But I would love to play FH2 and I think it looks amazing too despite not being at DC's level. And I'm sure a lot of people thinks this way.
That way of thinking is common but dont have any sense.
2: As it's been said, people do that just to feel better, because they know the thing they have is not the best, and they try to convince theirselves of the oposite so it's not harmful anymore.
MilkyJoe
Member
flipswitch
Member
MilkyJoe
Member
I don't get it lol. Are they eating that dried up turkey?
Well yeah... but the line he says is "are you serious, Clark?" you being the metaphorical Clark ;o)
Schrade
Member
What they need to do with Driveclub is make the snow flakes curve around the shape of the car when they get close to its air flow area. That's what I'm seeing in that video.
Also, there needs to be fainter grey snowflakes in between/far behind the brightly lit up streaking snowflakes. Those streaking snowflakes need to curve around, too.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Why? We're talking about a specific game here not 'every game'. I'm sure lots of PS fans learned to love KZS for exactly the same reason (I hated it). Driveclub looks better than Forza 5/PC is just a factual statement and has nothing to do with fanboyism.
Scaramanger
Member
Because you are asserting that DC being the best looking is a fact. It is not a fact because everyone's criteria for what makes something the best looking is a set of personal preferences.
It might well be popular opinion that DC is the best looking but that is not fact. Maybe someone's purchasing choice was 100% correct because based on their personal criteria FH2 was the best looking. (although this is TBH a weird conversation because its very unlikely that someone would buy a game on graphics alone!).
Look the end of the day I agree with both of you here, in my personal opinion DC is the better looking game. However I don't agree that anyone who disagrees with us must be a fanboy, they may just have different tastes (even if they only own an Xbox!).
Anyway this is getting really off topic.....
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
It is a fact. I can only deal in reality and don't give a damn about personal perception or preference. A fact is a fact and can't be denied although some people seem to think it can. And I've already argued that it doesn't necessarily have to be to do with fanboyism. In fact, that's what I've been discussing.
Not all opinions have to be right just for being opinions.
I know it's not politically correct to say that someone's opinion is just wrong. But sometimes they are.
Disagreeing doesnt make you a fanboy. Deny the truth in front of your face does.
And yes, we could discuss whats the truth here, but that's another story.
Of course, remembering that the debate wasn't about what was better looking (subjective) but what has better illumination:
Like you say, whether something has technically better illumination or not is a fact.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I'm not addressing any particular part of the discussion, I'm merely observing the overall reality of these comparisons. I know his reply was 'specific' but I didn't really want to get into anything too technical because I'm ignorant in that regard. Overall though, his point was merely agreeing with mine.
Scaramanger
Member
and I think that is the crux of it. It may be more factual to say that the majority of the time DC is clearly a more realistic looking racer (I say majority because as with any game given the right circumstance someone can always pull up an especially bad but unusual shot).
but I don't think its fact to say best = most realistic because best is a subjective term.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I know what you're saying but I really do think it's rather a pedantic way of looking at it. 'Driveclub looks better than Forza5/PC' isn't debatable. In Zen they call it 'cutting through the middle' while in the West we call it 'cutting out the crap'.
Scaramanger
Member
Absolutely, its very pedantic!
But it's also less antagonistic because it does a better job of explaining the reasoning behind the statement and therefore does not appear to immediately discount any counter opinions as irrelevant. Ultimately that means its less likely to lead to 10 pages of name calling, 25 people being banned and grown men shouting obscenities at their computer or phone screens!
Wow, I can't believe we've got people in here claiming that what looks best is something factual rather than something that is just as dependant on the viewer as it is on what is actually being displayed. I mean, even what is more realistic is something many people would disagree with in many cases, but at least here there's enough of a disparity that I can see most people coming to an agreement in that regard. What looks best though? That's a completely different matter, and to suggest that somebody thinks differently in that regard is simply a liar or a fanboy is ridiculous.
Insane Metal
Member
So now Forza Horizon 2 has full particle effects while Driveclub shows only a box of particles around the car.
Lmao, you guys are just incredible.
Lmao, you guys are just incredible.
Would you mind quoting who's posts you're referring to here?
DirgeExtinction
Member
AbandonedTrolley
Member
If you read this thread, it's not high enough and still has yet to match PCars and FH2. Evo better step up their game!
I think it's pretty easy to tell if someone opinion is fanboy based. Generally a quick post history check answers that question.
eso76
Member
GT7 will look bonkers.
cars will, at least. Now trackside detail reaching DC in a GT title..not sure that will ever happen
Also, PGR5 will destroy DC.
: (
That was the post I was thinking of too. However it makes no claims about FH2's system, and only mentions IQ (even saying he'd trade the particles in favor of it). You'd think by his post that numerous people ("Lmao, you guys are just incredible") were both claiming that DC's was limited and FH2's wasn't... in the same posts. From what I can see though, he's basically imagined this.
Sure, post history may work pretty well for an individual, but that's hardly what was being claimed here. The claim was basically if you don't think DC looks better than FH2, you're a fanboy.
Even taking post history into account, you'd still get plenty of false positives due to that person's preferences quite likely actually being the reason for them favoring a specific console in the first place (unless you're suggesting that people shouldn't have preferences at all). If someone told me they think Mario Kart 8 looks better than Forza 5, I wouldn't consider a post history favouring Nintendo to be very damning. They probably just prefer Nintendo's general aesthetic to others.
I just think it's a bit much to suggest anyone defending game A does it because they have console B, when in reality they could just as well only have console B because game A is on it.
Neue Regel
Banned
I'm sure the lighting will be incredible, that's PD's forte.
So I went through Forza 5, Forza Horizon 2, and Driveclub's Audi R8 car models for fun just to see which ones were the best.
Forza 5's Forza Vista model was far and away the most detailed model (duh) but in actual races it was a lot more challenging to make a call.
Driveclub's time trial/photo mode model is really detailed and as far as actual gameplay goes is the most detailed but certain elements like the Audi logo and underside of the car are low poly or not rendered.
Forza 5 actually appeared to have a more detailed car model in gameplay than Forza Horizon 2, but it lacked some of the textures that both Forza Horizon 2 and driveclub included on the engine.
Forza 5 actually renders more of the interior than either of the other two in gameplay which is interesting.
Driveclub's photo mode/single race model was more detailed than either of the Forza games' photo mode models, but it didn't have as many fine details like paint textures and the Audi logo was lower poly than either of the Forza games.
Also 60fps feels super weird after playing Driveclub and Forza Horizon 2 for a while lol.
Either way, it's cool to see how the designers approached the vehicle with their respective budgets. It's neat that Forza includes some of the undercarriage details from the cars and Forza 5 specifically renders a lot of the interior of the vehicle while driving. Driveclub appears to have taken the most aggressive approach to modeling the car, as it cuts some interior details and things like the underside of the car (I never managed to flip it so I could be wrong here, I'm judging based off of catching some air) to get "better" results in typical gameplay.
Also I'm a poor college student so I don't have capture equipment or even internet access on either of my consoles currently so I don't have pics. Someone who does should totally do a comparison though. I'm OK with being proven wrong.
Forza 5's Forza Vista model was far and away the most detailed model (duh) but in actual races it was a lot more challenging to make a call.
Driveclub's time trial/photo mode model is really detailed and as far as actual gameplay goes is the most detailed but certain elements like the Audi logo and underside of the car are low poly or not rendered.
Forza 5 actually appeared to have a more detailed car model in gameplay than Forza Horizon 2, but it lacked some of the textures that both Forza Horizon 2 and driveclub included on the engine.
Forza 5 actually renders more of the interior than either of the other two in gameplay which is interesting.
Driveclub's photo mode/single race model was more detailed than either of the Forza games' photo mode models, but it didn't have as many fine details like paint textures and the Audi logo was lower poly than either of the Forza games.
Also 60fps feels super weird after playing Driveclub and Forza Horizon 2 for a while lol.
Either way, it's cool to see how the designers approached the vehicle with their respective budgets. It's neat that Forza includes some of the undercarriage details from the cars and Forza 5 specifically renders a lot of the interior of the vehicle while driving. Driveclub appears to have taken the most aggressive approach to modeling the car, as it cuts some interior details and things like the underside of the car (I never managed to flip it so I could be wrong here, I'm judging based off of catching some air) to get "better" results in typical gameplay.
Also I'm a poor college student so I don't have capture equipment or even internet access on either of my consoles currently so I don't have pics. Someone who does should totally do a comparison though. I'm OK with being proven wrong.
jellies_two
Member
just a random bit of FYI for DC, today I did a challenge race that only had one other car, and my car model (a Ferrari 458) did not switch from lower to higher level detail when going to photo mode. So the lower/higher LOD stuff maybe is tied to the number of cars locally, rather than simply being time trial vs race.
Also regarding screen space reflections in DC, when I stand at the side of the car, and look at the reflection in the paint, I can see the track and terrain behind me (not just a sky box, or fake reflection). I thought screen space reflections in basic form had no answer when the vector shoots off screen?
Also regarding screen space reflections in DC, when I stand at the side of the car, and look at the reflection in the paint, I can see the track and terrain behind me (not just a sky box, or fake reflection). I thought screen space reflections in basic form had no answer when the vector shoots off screen?
FYI, none of the undersides of the cars in Driveclub are rendered. From what Rushy mentioned in one of the numerous DC threads, they're all modelled as if they have that undercarriage protection plate thing.
I think that's what he said at least, anyway.
DirgeExtinction
Member
I think I remember that. That would explain why the underside of one of the Audis I drove looked black when I flipped it over, lol
MemoryHumanity
Member
Can somebody please GIF this for me? I'm quite proud of how I saved this; thought I was gonna crash for sure but nailed the apex perfectly with a powerslide!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvy72g1rqmQ
EDIT: Managed a low quality, short GIF using a website. Would appreciate someone doing it properly though!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvy72g1rqmQ
EDIT: Managed a low quality, short GIF using a website. Would appreciate someone doing it properly though!
The snow particles aren't generated in a small limited box. They fill up a pretty large part of the environment, but if there aren't any light sources near them then they'll be near invisible, and your headlights only light up a certain area of them. I think the rainfall looks weird in motion though so I'm not sure what's up with those.
The snow outside of any light sources are difficult to see, but they are there.
If we increased the motion blur on particles, as seen in photomode, we'd get the curve effect. The in-game shutter speed for particles is too fast though.
Instead we get this
vs.
Ok so then pole position looks better than Forza horizon 2. By your own logic you just have to accept that statement as for all you know it's my opinion.
flipswitch
Member
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