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NFL 2013 Week 14 |OT| Pure Imagination

M

Milchjon

Member
Once again, Bedard nails it.

Before we get into a discussion about what I think is the root of the lingering player safety issue—enhancing the protection for all defenseless players—let’s just put this to bed: Ward and other defensive backs, like Brandon Meriweather, who explain away knee-shots on receivers by saying they fear getting fined, are not telling the truth. There are plenty of other places to tackle opponents below their heads that don’t involve ending someone’s season. The players are using it as an excuse when accused of delivering a dirty hit. It’s like saying your PED suspension happened because of a lapsed Adderall prescription: the rules are to blame, not me.

...

Ward knew he’d bounce off Gronkowski, so he made a legal tackle that resulted in Gronkowski tearing the ACL and MCL in his right knee, ending his season and dealing a serious blow to the Patriots with the playoffs just around the corner. It’s the same thing we saw when Ravens safety Matt Elam hit Packers receiver Randall Cobb in Week 5, and when Texans safety D.J. Swearinger took down Dolphins tight end Dustin Keller in the preseason. All of them were legal. It’s time to make them illegal.
Click to expand...

More at the link.


I think the only way to solve this is to implement a "Gronk Radius" of about 30lbs and 4" above or below Gronk's weight and height. Anyone who falls outside that radius is banned from participating in the NFL.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Cool pic from NFL Twitter:

CpCxlf4.jpg
 
P

PanicFreak

Member
Milchjon said:
Once again, Bedard nails it.



More at the link.


I think the only way to solve this is to implement a "Gronk Radius" of about 30lbs and 4" above or below Gronk's weight and height. Anyone who falls outside that radius is banned from participating in the NFL.
Click to expand...

Let's just make them play with flags.

Hitting is part of the game. Great players have their careers cut short all the time. Deal with it.
 
D

Draconian

Member
Just read an article stating that Jeff Triplette didn't even review the whole play of the call he overturned in the IND/CIN game yesterday. Why is this guy still allowed to head a crew? It's obvious that he doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Two straight weeks where either he or his crew has blown a ruling completely, and I'm sure we'll see them all again next week.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Bedard's homerism is showing.
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Useless and baseless comment. Read the article. He specifically mentions Brady when it comes to postions that are overprotected. He also mentions other injuries.

Now you could argue that he didn't write this article when it happened to Keller or whoever. But then again, of course Gronk is a much more prominent player in every way.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
Milchjon said:
Useless and baseless comment. Read the article. He specifically mentions Brady when it comes to postions that are overprotected. He also mentions other injuries.

Now you could argue that he didn't write this article when it happened to Keller or whoever. But then again, of course Gronk is a much more prominent player in every way.
Click to expand...
Keller was the TE for Mark "no nickname could be more insulting than his actual name" Sanchez. Give the guy a break!
 
H

Himynameischris

Member
Milchjon said:
Once again, Bedard nails it.



More at the link.


I think the only way to solve this is to implement a "Gronk Radius" of about 30lbs and 4" above or below Gronk's weight and height. Anyone who falls outside that radius is banned from participating in the NFL.
Click to expand...

The pats had a similar hit on a browns player but nobody brings it up because the browns player bounced back up, obviously it's not ok and the DEs are doing it on purpose, which sucks. Miami suffered because of these hits as well, but they are legal for now, unfortunately guys like gronk and keller are going to be the examples that are used to make it illegal in to future.
 
P

PanicFreak

Member
Dutch Patriot said:
You sound like a real swell fucking guy.
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I'm sorry your team just lost a key member. It's happened to other franchises.

Here is a taste of some great players who's careers were ended with injuries: Gayle Sayers, Terrell Davis, Billy Simms, Bo Jackson, Sterling Sharpe.

These sort of things happen. They happen all the time. It wouldn't be football if it didn't.
 
E

effzee

Member
Fox318 said:
RG3 is a franchise qb?

Since when?
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I know you are a Jets fan and don't know anything about good QBs but yeah RG3 is a franchise QB.

One bad year after his rookie campaign largely due to his injury isn't reason enough to dump him or start over again from point zero.

The Redskins biggest issue is stuff other than RG3. The defense is horrendous and has been for a while now. If Shanny and son don't get fired for not getting along with QBs, they should def be kicked out for not improving the D at all.

That doesn't mean Snyder is a good owner. He is his own scumbag. But cmon now RG3 100% healthy next year will be more like what we saw his rookie season. Shanny has had 1 winning season in 4 years in DC and its no shock it was last year with a healthy RG3.

Kastrioti said:
Wat
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You don't need a top 10 pick to build your D through the draft. Unless the Skins have no picks at all, they can still find quality starters or valuable depth in the draft to build up their areas of weakness. Plus if you manage FA correctly you can add value there too.

Whole point is, find the right coaching staff especially to fix the D. Getting a franchise QB is much tougher than finding a good coach.

Of course as an Eagles fan I hope they bring back Mike Shanahan and don't figure any of this out.
 
T

Trey

Member
Milchjon said:
Once again, Bedard nails it.



More at the link.


I think the only way to solve this is to implement a "Gronk Radius" of about 30lbs and 4" above or below Gronk's weight and height. Anyone who falls outside that radius is banned from participating in the NFL.
Click to expand...

Hip contusions, broken ribcage, broken arms, although all are less serious than a blown out ACL. No place is is safe to hit. Might as well get rid of the safety position and/or zone defense if you want to limit high speed impacts on defenseless receivers.

NFL needs a significant rule overhaul. This bit by bit legislation is bullshit. And if you can't go for the knees on defense, the chop block needs to go as well.
 
P

Pumpkin King

Member
Watching the pre-game. Stacey is there for the milf-factor. Steve? HOF. Lewis? HOF. I just really don't understand why Dilfer is there. His commentary is just dreadful. Can't stand him.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Trey said:
Hip contusions, broken ribcage, broken arms, although all are less serious than a blown out ACL. No place is is safe to hit. Might as well get rid of the safety position and/or zone defense if you want to limit high speed impacts on defenseless receivers.

NFL needs a significant rule overhaul. This bit by bit legislation is bullshit. And if you can't go for the knees on defense, the chop block needs to go as well.
Click to expand...

He mentions that too.
 
P

PanicFreak

Member
There is more too. Troy Aikman and Steve Young both had problems with concussions that forced them to retire. One of my personal favorite players, Al Wilson, had a neck injury that ended his career. Need I mention Joe Theismann?

I remember talking to my fantasy buddies about Gronk when he was setting records and I said the following words: "He reminds me of the type of player who will completely dominate when he is playing but will be injured all the time." Just having watched Gronk play, I could tell that his career would be plagued by injuries because he plays with reckless abandon and runs completely upright. He could have been injured on any number of plays throughout his career.

You can't change the rules to protect players who don't protect themselves.
 
S

squicken

Member
PanicFreak said:
You can't change the rules to protect players who don't protect themselves.
Click to expand...

Made a similar point last night, and Barnwell made the same one today

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10107892/bill-barnwell-week-14-nfl

First, to be clear: Ward's hit was not dirty. In fact, the problem with the hit was that it was the only real option he had to make a clean hit whatsoever. The NFL has successfully legislated out of the game the hit up high during plays up the seam, and both quarterbacks and offensive coordinators know that. The pass up the seam to an athletic tight end or a bigger wide receiver is a more popular play than it has ever been before because of that; teams don't worry about the consequences of laying out their receiver because they know defenders have been told repeatedly to avoid going high. Ward's timing in making a play on the ball is sound; if he were to go high to try to jar the ball loose, he would have been given a personal foul penalty and fined by the league. If he tries to make an arm tackle, Gronkowski runs right by him. Ward's only way to make a play there is to try to go low with his tackle.

In this case, Gronkowski is vulnerable and laid out, but it's by a shot to his legs that Gronk can't protect himself from, not by the traditional shot to the head. I don't know how you tell Ward that he can't hit Gronkowski high or low in that situation without basically suggesting that Gronkowski is allowed to waltz into the end zone for a touchdown anytime he catches a seam route. Ward had no intent to injure Gronkowski on the play, and yet the only hit he could really get off was a very dangerous one. There's no simple solution to that quandary, just the reality that it's impossible to make professional football with 240-pound athletes a safe game.
Click to expand...
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Milchjon said:
Useless and baseless comment. Read the article. He specifically mentions Brady when it comes to postions that are overprotected. He also mentions other injuries.

Now you could argue that he didn't write this article when it happened to Keller or whoever. But then again, of course Gronk is a much more prominent player in every way.
Click to expand...

I stand by my statement.

Guys have been getting their knees blown out by shots like this for 50 years. As you admit, it happens to Gronkowski and all of a sudden it's a blight. Injuries happen. Deal with it. You can't legislate injury out of the game.
 
T

Trey

Member
Milchjon said:
He mentions that too.
Click to expand...

His stipulations seem very difficult to enforce. Can dive at legs but you better not hit the knee? He says that QBs are over protected but he wants all defenseless receivers to basically have the Brady rule? How do you even aim at someone's shins and ankles: it's not like the surface area of a defender's shoulder pad/body is a pinpoint.

The actual root of the problem is high speed impact. Not the "rules that aren't there" as the author puts it. But no one wants to stare that elephant in the face.
 
P

PanicFreak

Member
squicken said:
Made a similar point last night, and Barnwell made the same one today
Click to expand...

This is the most important part of the article you posted: There's no simple solution to that quandary, just the reality that it's impossible to make professional football with 240-pound athletes a safe game.

Football isn't a safe game. If you break football down to its most simple fundamentals, it's a game about blocking and tackling, both of which are dangerous. When you add 270 pound men that can run 4.4 40s, you have a recipe for disaster.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
I stand by my statement.

Guys have been getting their knees blown out by shots like this for 50 years. As you admit, it happens to Gronkowski and all of a sudden it's a blight. Injuries happen. Deal with it. You can't legislate injury out of the game.
Click to expand...

Don't act like this is only being talked about since yesterday. Going for the knees has been a topic all season, at least since Meriweather's dumbfuck comments. Gronk only lends it some additional salience, but don't pin this debate on him.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Milchjon said:
Don't act like this is only being talked about since yesterday. Going for the knees has been a topic all season, at least since Meriweather's dumbfuck comments. Gronk only lends it some additional salience, but don't pin this debate on him.
Click to expand...

I'm not pinning the debate on him. As I said, Bedard's homerism is showing.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Since I need to sleep now:

Of course I am especially pissed because this happened to one of my favorite players.

Of course the game is inherently dangerous.

I'm not gonna pretend like I'm totally impartial here and I'm not gonna dispute obvious facts.

I think I'm mostly pissed off at the "I had to, because fines!!!" excuse. I also think it's gonna be dangerous if this mindset is proliferating among defensive players.

And of course I'm just generally frustrated by this season.

Anyways, I'm out.
 
D

Doorman

Member
cdyhybrid said:
Cool pic from NFL Twitter:

CpCxlf4.jpg
Click to expand...

Forget useless fan voting, just crop this picture and make it the cover for the next Madden. I'm not even kidding.

Anyway random thoughts from yesterday's snow-bowl.
- Eagles (Shady McCoy more specifically) won the game and certainly deserved to. I do happen to still think that the officials pretty literally gifted Philly 8 points as best they could, but in the end those calls, crappy as they were, wouldn't have mattered. Our defense wore down and got sloppy.
- Speaking of sloppy, holy shit is the Lions offense a hot mess right now. The offense was outscored by our special teams. Has that ever, ever happened before? Props to Jeremy Ross for his heroic-but-useless effort, but as it stands right now there is not a single person on the offense that I trust to hold on to the football anymore, and that's an even bigger problem than anything on our defense. For all of the weapons we supposedly have, it feels like the handles on all our weapons are broken and it's hurting our effectiveness big-time.
- I'm torn between wanting more awesome snow games like this, or feeling satisfied that it was such a rare thing that it will be more memorable that way.

- Also, honorable mention to the Michigan State folks that lurk around in this thread too. Thanks for doing what my team couldn't and make Urban Meyer cry.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
As I said last night, this is just going to keep happening, particularly to tight ends. Those seam throws are kill shots for an offense with an athletic tight end. This is the natural counter and deterrent. Get used to it.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
The Canadian press just named their Canadian athlete of the year.

They named CFL Running Back Jon Cornish as the winner.

Jon Cornish had a phenomenal year rushing for 1813 yards and 12 TDs with an astounding 7.0YPC.

He found out he won the award while he was at his job at the bank.

BbFCbp7CQAAN-3J.jpg:large
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"I really didn't know anything was going on, I was just getting ready to go for a day of work," said Cornish, employed as a bank rep in Calgary during the off-season. "My phone is always on silent so my iPad was getting most of my notifications and it started making a lot of noise and so I was wondering but I was playing video games so I wasn't really too worried about checking my iPad.
Click to expand...
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
Kave_Man said:
The Canadian press just named their Canadian athlete of the year.

They named CFL Running Back Jon Cornish as the winner.

Jon Cornish had a phenomenal year rushing for 1813 yards and 12 TDs with an astounding 7.0YPC.

He found out he won the award while he was at his job at the bank.
Click to expand...

Man, whats the average salary for a CFL player?

Alligatorjandro said:
We should all play a game of football. No rules.
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I'll James Harrison you bich. meet me somewhere
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Ward made a legal hit by the rules. That being said he's knows he isn't taking Gronk down with a regular hit so he went low on purpose. He didn't need to tell a crock of shit story about how he was didn't tackle high to avoid a fine. That's laughable.
 
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