BREAKING: Seahawks & Raiders Reach Agreement On Trade For Marshawn Lynch https://t.co/LAmb1WD3oK https://t.co/JAWmSwRyI8
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NFL 2017 Offseason thread |OT2| - I Mean Look What Our Teams Did For Us!
- Thread starter BlackGhost
- Start date
I guess my knee jerk reaction of "shit" to the Marshawn notification popping up in my phone answers the question of what I care more about: winning or our relationship with Oakland. Ah well, he could have more in the tank than I think.
I still hope we grab James Conner with a late round pick, though. He's a great fit for us and he can push Lynch to earn that money.
I still hope we grab James Conner with a late round pick, though. He's a great fit for us and he can push Lynch to earn that money.
ActStriker
Member
yessssss
That's an extremely tough question. I was writing a response and then there was so much to say that this is going to be a gigantic wall of text. And this is what I see, along with looking at breakdowns of the two of them. Some of the more experienced draft watchers in here (Farooq, LJ) may have a different opinion and I'd trust them over me. But here goes.
I honestly feel like I have some racial bias at play here, since every conceivable comparison would have me take McCaffrey, but there's something about Cook that I want. It's weird because they're both extremely similar players but at the same time pretty different. They're both backs that are not very powerful but have great vision and elusiveness, and are both deadly as a receiver out of the backfield. A separator there is that McCaffrey seems like a guy that you can just literally put in the slot and play him as a receiver, whereas Cook could do that but I see him more effective running wheel and flat routes out of the backfield. Neither are particularly great blockers.
When it comes to running style, both can do it all, but McCaffrey seems more like the type of guy who's going to take what the defense gives him while Cook is going to try to make magic happen. I guess a good Eagles comparison would be McCaffrey is Westbrook while Cook reminds me more of McCoy. He's not a dancer like McCoy but employs that same shake and instantaneous lateral cut ability. And I don't want to say the "Take what defenses give" as a knock, it's more that if McCaffrey sees a play breaking down and he sees an opportunity to get an extra 2-3 yards, he'll do it. Cook is more likely to try to bounce to the outside and gain 5-10 more yards, but with more risk of getting blown up. I'd say McCaffrey is a better between the tackles runner, while with Cook whatever offense he goes to is going to want to use a ton of stretch and toss plays to get him to the outside.
On their traits, McCaffrey has great anticipation and elusiveness, and is incredibly intelligent in how he runs and uses all of his moves together. His combine was incredibly good with his tests in the agility drills were insane, some of them among the best in the last 15 years. That backed up the athleticism you saw on his tape. Then at his Pro Day he did the wide receiver workouts to show his talent there. For some reason though McCaffrey doesn't have the best burst and after he breaks contact he doesn't have that ability to immediately accelerate and get back up to speed. McCaffrey is also way better at protecting the football. Cook fumbles literally 4 times as often as McCaffrey (1 fumble every 63 carries vs 1 fumble every 243 carries) and McCaffrey's hands are better than Cook's. He could legitimately just switch to slot receiver once he's in the NFL. Cook meanwhile had a pretty poor combine relatively, falling well short of McCaffrey in most of the categories. It's weird because he's also athletic as hell. Like I said earlier, both have great vision, but I give the nod to Cook here. His vision is amazing, McCaffrey's is really good. But the real separation here is his balance and footwork. Cook's footwork is great and his balance is unreal. McCaffrey can cut back very effectively, but Cook can just go in the opposite direction instantly. His balanced caused smaller tacklers (CBs and Safeties) to sometimes bounce of off him or try to get him with a shoestring tackle, but he's able to just go right through it. And unlike McCaffrey, he's got the burst when coming out of a tackle to get right back up to top speed. Also, even though he's only 1 inch shorter and 6 lbs heavier than McCaffrey, a lot of that is focused in his lower body, so he's just thicker built and seems like he can shoulder the NFL workload more.
So so far it seems pretty even, with me being slightly biased towards Cook. But I look at the Combine and how McCaffrey blew people away while Cook underperformed, and then there's the off-the-field stuff. Cook has had three surgeries on his shoulders and a nagging hamstring injury in 2015. Now granted, he only missed one game his collegiate career, so it's not like he was missing time. But compare that to McCaffrey's clean bill of health and it's concerning. Then you add in that Cook has had several off-the-field problems. Most of Cook's off-the-field problems just seems like a dumb kid being a dumb kid, but two stick out to me. One, a police officer once found puppies chained up tightly around their necks, with the smaller ones having trouble breathing, and the officer had to remove them for their own safety. That's pretty disgusting. I get that maybe this is just how people are raised in the South to think it's ok and not animal abuse, but still it's just inhumane. Two, there's an alleged assault allegation that was too fuzzy to know anything for sure. He took it to court and the jury only took 35 minutes to find him not guilty due to the witnesses' testimony being unreliable, but he is the star RB at a huge football program, so who knows if that played into it. Meanwhile McCaffrey is squeaky clean. Also, while Cook, contrary to recent rumors, has great work ethic and is by all accounts incredibly humble despite his talent, McCaffrey has actually gotten compared to Wentz in his work ethic. He's just incredibly dedicated to football. So with all of that, it's odd that despite their production being similar and McCaffrey testing better athletically, has less injuries, fumbles much less than Cook, and doesn't have the off-the-field issues, I can't just choose McCaffrey.
God this turned into a giant post. The conclusion is I don't know. Etiher would be great. For some reason I'm getting pulled to Cook. I think it's just because his vision and balance are otherworldly, and he's just such a dynamic offensive weapon. Plus he has the burst that McCaffrey doesn't. I think while both will have similar production, McCaffrey will probably be more consistent with just constantly getting yards, while Cook has that playmaker ability to turn anything into a huge gain. I get the feeling that Cook is more what the Eagles want too. I think it's just that I like players who can bust a game wide open at any point over a guy that's consistently great and what he does. I'm honestly not sure McCaffrey is there anyway, but I'd be happy with either.
Although I think target #1 is Corey Davis
Floy give me your take on this
Well he lives in Dallas but he also reports on the rest of the league. Report today was there would be about 50 names people would recognize and 50 they wouldnt.
Doing this the day before the draft is amazing
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
FloydtheFathead
Member
James Connor was solid at Pitt (even after his cancer issues) and would be a good spell back for Beast Mode assuming he's still half the back he was when he retired.
Either him or Foreman would be excellent
I generally agree with what you say.. the biggest knock on Caf to me is his ability to run between the tackles on a consistent basis (I think he can do it, but not as well as Cook or Mixon). LJ described Cook's style of running as violent and aggressive in the past and I agree with that. Your Westbrook comparison is solid to me and makes a lot of sense rather than the Sproles comparison I have levied and I think I was wrong about.
If you want an all around back (passing game etc..) I would go with Caf. If you want run first with your running back, then I would go with Cook personally. Cook can be a weapon in the passing game and has shown that (particularly in the Orange Bowl against Michigan) he can be used in that. But I don't know about a dink and dunk offense would be best for him (wasn't really what's run at Florida State since they run a pro style offense), but then again so does Stanford, but they will do short pass shit and can dink and dunk on you if need be.
The Ringer latest Mock
https://theringer.com/nfl-mock-draf...?source=collection_home---7------0-----------
Interesting picks:
49ers take Hooker at #2
Jags take Watson at #4
Browns take Howard at #12
Cards take Mahomes at #13
Texans take Trubisky at #25
https://theringer.com/nfl-mock-draf...?source=collection_home---7------0-----------
Interesting picks:
49ers take Hooker at #2
Jags take Watson at #4
Browns take Howard at #12
Cards take Mahomes at #13
Texans take Trubisky at #25
djplaeskool
Member
Seems like ESPN is culling some of the localized reporting staff.
Ed Werder and Paul Kuharsky (who I think was more or less embedded with the Titans) are gone. Looks like some deep cuts to NHL coverage too.
Ed Werder and Paul Kuharsky (who I think was more or less embedded with the Titans) are gone. Looks like some deep cuts to NHL coverage too.
After I saw the report that Davis Webb would go in the mid first round yesterday I said the same thing
Great post. I'm with you in that I'd rather have Cook. I think Cook has a higher ceiling but lower floor. McCaffrey likely won't bust, given his work ethic and versatility, but I don't know if he could ever become a special player.
Interestingly enough, MockDraftable has McCaffrey's best combine comp as Wendell Smallwood. So maybe the Eagles already have their own McCaffrey?
I'd prefer Mixon to cook. If we're going with a player with off the field issues, it is a no brainier.
Triple down. Bold
Cook is just as bad if not worse.
Yeah that second paragraph pretty much sums up my thoughts. McCaffrey for everything, Cook for a RB
Yeah plus Cook produced in that offense where he was the only weapon. They knew he was getting the ball and still couldn't do anything to stop him. And it was against better competition than McCaffrey
Welp....
Texans blogger Pat Starr on local radio just said he has been told Mahomes is the Texans guy. Texans have had Wes Welker (Texas Tech alumni) spending extra time there getting to know him and help decide if he could function in the Texans version of the E&P offense (Patriots offense) Team is high on him
I guess Dega finally gets his wish. Mahomes is coming/staying/moving eastardly Home.
Texans blogger Pat Starr on local radio just said he has been told Mahomes is the Texans guy. Texans have had Wes Welker (Texas Tech alumni) spending extra time there getting to know him and help decide if he could function in the Texans version of the E&P offense (Patriots offense) Team is high on him
I guess Dega finally gets his wish. Mahomes is coming/staying/moving eastardly Home.
Damn
This:
He's also had run-ins with the law, starting in high school (robbery in 2009, charges dropped; firing and possessing a weapon on school property in 2010, charges drooped) and then again in 2015, where he was charged with misdemeanor battery outside a bar (found not guilty).
Vs. punching a female in the face and knocking her out.
Yep. Almost the same
You may have to do some research on Dalvin Cook. The only thing you won't find is a video.
You also have the chained up dogs who were unable to move and choking. Cook is no saint, neither is Mixon. That misdemeanor outside of a bar...he punched a woman in the face, but hey there's no video of it, so it most likely didn't happen. His status didn't get him off.
I think I agree and I would be fine either but then that leads me to my next point:
If the Eagles are going to take a RB high or early and they are sold on the ability of these guys to add to Wentz, Ertz, Alshon, and the rest of the WRs...AND... one of the two RBs mentioned has a troubled past himself ... then why not...Mixon?
Yeah but that is just the combine. Which mean nothing.
I do know they like Smallwood a lot which makes rumors of them taking a RB as high as 14 extremely confusing to me. They have Sproles and Smallwood. Could add Mixon late or a RB we don't know about in round 5 who gains 1000 yards behind a good OLINE and decent QB play.
Personally, while I won't be mad if they take McCaffery, Cook, or say Mixon late - I just prefer they take a WR over RB, especially for this pass happy offense.
Duxxy3
Member
I have, I wouldnt want either. Yet I cannot equate Cook's actions with what Mixon is. Especially with it now going back to high school as well.
So you are happy if your team takes a player who is less of a piece of shit human being? Just read more on Cook and yes he is a piece of shit as well but either way you are ok with the Eagles drafting either one because they have skills?
I don't. I've said time and time again that Mixon needs a team with strong leadership, and he only winds up in Philly if Dawkins or Staley signs off and wants to be a mentor for him. He needs guidance, and he will be an NFL player whether we like it or not. So I hope he lands on a team that can offer him the opportunity to right his wrongs. However, I'd rather we go Mixon than Cook if we're taking the asshole RB, that's simply based on talent.
All I've been doing is pointing out how hypocritical it is that all of these guys are getting passes and everyone is saying fuck the team who drafts Mixon while saying Cook is okay, Winston is okay, Dez Bryant is okay, etc etc etc.
The issue with Mixon was just after he turned 18.
Face it 31 teams in the NFL support thuggery. Only one team are Boy Scouts and will probably never win an Owl because of it
You said you couldn't equate Cook with Mixon because Cook's record goes back to HS. 18 is right around the same age. That doesn't give either of them a pass. Just pointing it out to you if you didn't know.
Oh sorry, i was referring to the allegations of Mixon having an assault on a girl in high school. I did not mean to imply any excuse for either based on youth.
Oh that was false. The father of the girl came out and said so himself.
sf2fanatic
Member
He'll be working with NfLN shortly
Going to Best Buy to get a copy!
I can picture them staying in the first round by trading down to a team like Houston or KC if either is that hell bent on taking a QB.
Himynameischris
Member
I might die laughing if Texans take a QB in the first round.
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