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NFL Offseason Thread |OT4| Cheaters Cheat.

G

Godslay

Banned
zychi said:
If they did nothing wrong, why were they fined, lose draft picks, and fined AGAIN a few years later for the same thing?

Super Bowl champion*
Click to expand...

How did it effect the product on the field? Did the Broncos sign extra players? Did they pay players more to come to Denver? Did it affect the integrity of the game as it's played on the field?

Like I said show me the receipts.

Problem for a troll like yourself, is that there are none. It was an accounting issue. Which was actually ahead of it's time considering it's common practice in today's NFL.

Fact is, it didn't result in extra players, increased salary cap numbers, and it didn't change the fact that TD ran all over the league.
 
M

MRSA

Banned
alex-morgan_04.jpg
 
M

Mindlog

Member
/Jak Trivia
When was the last time a NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE™ player got the shits in the middle of a NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE™ contest?

quick search 2010
some of the New ­Orleans Saints began referring to their championship tilt with the Colts as the Super Bowel because of the unpleasant events that transpired before kickoff. "An NFL pregame locker room can be the most god-awful scene you will ever see or smell," says former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita, now with the Browns. "We are moments away from the Super Bowl, the highlight of our athletic lives, and pretty much everyone is in the bathroom just absolutely blowing up the stalls."
Click to expand...
 
Z

zychi

Banned
Godslay said:
How did it effect the product on the field? Did the Broncos sign extra players? Did they pay players more to come to Denver? Did it affect the integrity of the game as it's played on the field?

Like I said show me the receipts.

Problem for a troll like yourself, is that there are none. It was an accounting issue. Which was actually ahead of it's time considering it's common practice in today's NFL.

Fact is, it didn't result in extra players, increased salary cap numbers, and it didn't change the fact that TD ran all over the league.
Click to expand...
Broncos wouldnt be able to afford TD and Elway if they followed the rules. Instead they paid them later down the line, which was illegal, and why they got fined.

People refusing to acknowledge "wrong doing" and being anonymous to please the pre-Goodell Nfl shows they were guilty. You dont lose draft picks and get fined twice for following the rules.

Cheaters.
 
S

Spinluck

Member
zychi said:
Broncos wouldnt be able to afford TD and Elway if they followed the rules. Instead they paid them later down the line, which was illegal, and why they got fined.

People refusing to acknowledge "wrong doing" and being anonymous to please the pre-Goodell Nfl shows they were guilty. You dont lose draft picks and get fined twice for following the rules.

Cheaters.
Click to expand...

Let it go Slay, lol.

EDIT: Man, I forgot how much better GAF looks on desktop.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
zychi said:
Broncos wouldnt be able to afford TD and Elway if they followed the rules. Instead they paid them later down the line, which was illegal, and why they got fined.

People refusing to acknowledge "wrong doing" and being anonymous to please the pre-Goodell Nfl shows they were guilty. You dont lose draft picks and get fined twice for following the rules.

Cheaters.
Click to expand...

I hope for your sake that you don't fabricate information in your daily life. Quite frankly it's tiresome.

They wouldn't have been able to afford the both of them?

Take a look at their contracts, they weren't even close to breaking any bank with the two of them. Not to mention Elway restructured, and took a paycut to bring Neil Smith on board (which had nothing to do with any salary cap infraction mind you).

These contracts are what is counted against the cap, even with the deferred payments, there is no funny business here as they are they are the actual compensation that they would have received had it been paid in full rather than deferred with interest:

TD's Contract
Elway's Contract

Here's a quote where the Broncos paid 75% immediately with interest, and payed another deferred payment.

The Broncos were short on cash in 1998 so John Elway and Terrell Davis were deferrred $29 million, to be paid later, with interest. This is legal by NFL rules. The money was counted normally against the salary cap.

Well, the NFL has a deferred compensation fund that they require NFL teams to pay money to so that teams don't fall heavily into debt if they can't pay the players back. In 2000, the NFL said that $29 million was too much to defer, and Denver had to pay 75% of that immediately, so Denver paid Elway and Davis immediately. They also owed the NFL $303,000 to the deferred compensation fund of which the Broncos were unaware. After learning about this, the money was paid (with $663,000 in interest) and that was that.

In a memo from the NFL to the Broncos, they ruled that this violation was unrelated to the salary cap, that it did not give the Broncos a competitive advantage, and that the Broncos did not make a deliberate attempt to break league rules regarding deferred compensation obligations. However, they still were stripped of a third round pick, as is the normal punishment for this kind of thing.
Click to expand...

Spinluck said:
Let it go Slay, lol.

EDIT: Man, I forgot how much better GAF looks on desktop.
Click to expand...

Why should I? He's wrong, and he can troll all he wants, but disinformation is something that should be met head on.
 
Z

zychi

Banned
Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis contended that the Broncos' circumvention of the salary cap helped them win the Super Bowl in the 1997 and 1998 seasons.

In the years where they didn't follow the cap rules, the Broncos' top player, quarterback John Elway, was paid around 5.4% of the legal cap space, which was 1.2% less than the next closest team. Even more telling, Elway’s cap charges in the Broncos' 1997 and 1998 Super Bowl seasons were just $2.1 and $2.6 million respectively. By comparison Miami Dolphins quarterback Dan Marino, who would be the most logical comparison, had cap charges of $4.3 and $7.6 million. The implication is that Elway took a relatively low cap hit, but received outside-the-cap funds to compensate for that.

The Broncos explanation for this infraction goes something like this: owner Pat Bowlen was trying to build a new stadium for the Broncos and was short on cash. So, he asked Elway and running back Terrell Davis to forfeit some of their paycheck now and in return he would pay them back plus interest after the season.

They like to refer to this cheat as their little accounting snafu. Their accounting excuse doesn't matter, however, only the fundamental integrity of the game does. A rule is a rule and you can't chose to break it because something comes up. That is clear-cut cheating which is why they were penalized so heavily by the league for it.
Click to expand...

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan admitted in 2002 to hiring lip readers to steal signals.

From Sports Illustrated in 2002: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."
Click to expand...

Super Bowl champion*
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Spinluck said:
How is Splatoon btw Kas?

On a scale of Luck to Stafford.
Click to expand...

Well like Luck, Splatoon plays in a relatively weak division so it stands out more and communication is an issue like Luck tends to have with his receivers.

In terms of gameplay mechanics the game is fluid and controls are tight and accurate like a pass from Matthew Stafford and when you have a good team going, it's going. And the game itself looks gorgeous like Stafford himself does.

Seriously though, the game kicks ass and I've pulled myself away from Xenoblade, MK8 and Civ V just to play it. It's a really great game and not a "demo" like I thought or how MRSA points out. I haven't even played single player and it's got that "one more game...." addiction.

I've been having a lot of fun with my Wii U, and there are a lot more games I want to pick up for it, its just the online aspects of the game that infuriate me. Nintendo needs to get on the ball with that ASAP.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis contended that the Broncos' circumvention of the salary cap helped them win the Super Bowl in the 1997 and 1998 seasons.

In the years where they didn't follow the cap rules, the Broncos' top player, quarterback John Elway, was paid around 5.4% of the legal cap space, which was 1.2% less than the next closest team. Even more telling, Elway’s cap charges in the Broncos' 1997 and 1998 Super Bowl seasons were just $2.1 and $2.6 million respectively. By comparison Miami Dolphins quarterback Dan Marino, who would be the most logical comparison, had cap charges of $4.3 and $7.6 million. The implication is that Elway took a relatively low cap hit, but received outside-the-cap funds to compensate for that.

The Broncos explanation for this infraction goes something like this: owner Pat Bowlen was trying to build a new stadium for the Broncos and was short on cash. So, he asked Elway and running back Terrell Davis to forfeit some of their paycheck now and in return he would pay them back plus interest after the season.

They like to refer to this cheat as their little accounting snafu. Their accounting excuse doesn't matter, however, only the fundamental integrity of the game does. A rule is a rule and you can't chose to break it because something comes up. That is clear-cut cheating which is why they were penalized so heavily by the league for it.
Click to expand...

What your little blurb doesn't go into detail about is the following:

A. John Elway took a paycut to free up money for Neil Smith. This by itself would affect his percentage of the cap. So of course it's going to be smaller than other QBs. That's why it's paycut.

B. Payments were deferred, and then paid in full with interest. They counted against the cap that season.

C. The cash that would have went to Elway, TD, went directly to the stadium, which was actually breaking ground at the time.

D. The issue was with the amount of deferment. Not that it was deferment. NFL didn't have a clear cut number for the deferment and thought that the figure that the Broncos deferred was too much. They were fined for it and draft pick taken away.

I understand that you are trying to make more of this then what was really there. That's fine. I don't deny that the Broncos violated the accounting rules that were nebulous in terms of how they actually worked at the time.

It didn't corrupt the integrity of game, it didn't affect who we signed and who suited up, it didn't change the product on the field. So aside from violating how much a team can defer a payment to a player (which still accounts towards the cap btw), please explain to me with the numbers and players how it was cheating.

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan admitted in 2002 to hiring lip readers to steal signals.
From Sports Illustrated in 2002: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."
Click to expand...

I'm looking across the field trying to read signals, I see George Bush Sr., mouthing, "Read my lips Mike Shanahan, you're a goddamn cheater."

Teams still do this btw.

Film != Trying to read signals midgame.

With that, I'm going to bed. You can have the last word. Enjoy.
 
S

Spinluck

Member
Kastrioti said:
Well like Luck, Splatoon plays in a relatively weak division so it stands out more and communication is an issue like Luck tends to have with his receivers.

In terms of gameplay mechanics the game is fluid and controls are tight and accurate like a pass from Matthew Stafford and when you have a good team going, it's going. And the game itself looks gorgeous like Stafford himself does.

Seriously though, the game kicks ass and I've pulled myself away from Xenoblade, MK8 and Civ V just to play it. It's a really great game and not a "demo" like I thought or how MRSA points out. I haven't even played single player and it's got that "one more game...." addiction.

I've been having a lot of fun with my Wii U, and there are a lot more games I want to pick up for it, its just the online aspects of the game that infuriate me. Nintendo needs to get on the ball with that ASAP.
Click to expand...

:lololol

I'll definitely pick it up next time I get a bunch of days off work!

WedgeX said:
I've only had coffee once and I know this to be untrue.
Click to expand...

I am an expert though.
 
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