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NFL Preseason/Training Camp 2014 |OT| - This is our year!

F

Farooq

Banned
I follow a Cowboys sbnation blog. They had the opportunity to ask the author of Football Outsiders 2014 Almanac some questions.

There is one part that I found interesting. The author Scott Kacsmar didn't like the Zack Martin pick. His reasoning:

Personally, I'm not a big fan of using premium resources on interior linemen. I won't get into a huge essay about it, but I don't believe the variation in performance of guards or centers is great enough to use first-round picks. Leonard Davis was considered a bust at tackle for six years, but he went to Dallas, moved to right guard and was suddenly a Pro Bowl player. That's hard to buy.

If you want a run-heavy offense, then you need a better line, but that's not what Dallas is built for these days. I believe if you have a really good quarterback like Romo, then you don't need to focus on the interior line that much when there are more important positions to fix. Romo's sack rate has been fairly consistent with a tight range of 3.2 to 6.5 percent. The season it was the lowest (2010) was the year he broke his collarbone. Injuries can happen on any play. The play in which Romo came up very hobbled against Washington last year was actually a blown block by Tyron Smith, who is the best lineman on the team. I've thrown Smith under the bus twice now in this questionnaire, but it just goes to show how even your best assets can negatively impact your season with one play.

The Smith pick was great to get a franchise left tackle, but I think loading up with Travis Frederick and Zack Martin was overkill. It's nothing personal against those players, but I think the Cowboys had more pressing needs. We're not too excited about the safety position, but that could have been improved with a pick like Eric Reid (2013 draft) or Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. Romo just needed someone to snap him the ball properly (sorry, Phil Costa). Historically, the greatest centers in NFL history were not first-round picks, which is very unusual. The guy on pace to be the best first-round center ever is Nick Mangold. Maybe if the Jets had a good quarterback we'd see a better offense, but having Mangold and D'Brickashaw Ferguson did little to change their success. One of the few great lines to recently have a big impact was in Kansas City a decade ago (2002-05) with Willie Roaf, Brian Waters and Will Shields. However, like Dallas, that team didn't have a defense and never won a playoff game together.

Top three needs of a team should be a head coach, a quarterback and a defense. Building a great offensive line is a pipe dream in the salary cap era. Those who think they have the best assets usually don't have anything worth protecting, like Cleveland with Joe Thomas and Alex Mack. The 2008 Steelers and 2013 Seahawks won Super Bowls with pretty lousy lines and their quarterbacks under a lot of pressure. They still won because they had the No. 1 defense, and the quarterback delivered when he had to. Romo hasn't had a top 10 defense since 2009, which is not coincidentally the year he won his only playoff game. A quarterback's best friend is not his offensive line or running game, it's a great defense. It's hard to have one if you're taking guards and centers with first-round picks.
Click to expand...

What I wanted to discuss is the last paragraph in bold. I am curious if people on here feel the same way? That the variation in performance of guards and centers does not warrant a first round pick. A teams resources could be better spent. And in the case of the Cowboys, those resources should have been spent on the defense because it was a more pressing need. He also feels that generally a defense is a better friend to a QB.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
Farooq said:
I follow a Cowboys sbnation blog. They had the opportunity to ask the author of Football Outsiders 2014 Almanac some questions.

There is one part that that was interesting. The author Scott Kacsmar didn't like the Zack Martin pick. His reasoning:



What I wanted to discuss is the last paragraph in bold. I am curious if people on here feel the same way? That the variation in performance of guards and centers does not warrant a first round pick. A teams resources could be better spent. And in the case of the Cowboys, those resources should have been spent on the defense because it was a more pressing need. He also feels that generally a defense is a better friend to a QB.
Click to expand...

the only Olineman position that should be taken in a first round is a left tackle, and only if they are some giant hulking wall of a dude who has protected QBs well in college against the likes of an SEC defense. Even then its still a crapshoot as anything but thats the one pick Id say its better to go in the first round because of how important it is. The other linemen can be kinda shit but that one guy has to stand up to some scary guys.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Farooq said:
I follow a Cowboys sbnation blog. They had the opportunity to ask the author of Football Outsiders 2014 Almanac some questions.

There is one part that that was interesting. The author Scott Kacsmar didn't like the Zack Martin pick. His reasoning:



What I wanted to discuss is the last paragraph in bold. I am curious if people on here feel the same way? That the variation in performance of guards and centers does not warrant a first round pick. A teams resources could be better spent. And in the case of the Cowboys, those resources should have been spent on the defense because it was a more pressing need. He also feels that generally a defense is a better friend to a QB.
Click to expand...

I would agree. I might obviously be biased, but it makes sense to me. Doesn't mean you should wait until Day 3 of the draft to start looking at guards, but I think in most cases there is a player that can create a bigger impact on your team in the first round than a guard or center.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
cajunator said:
because of how important it is. The other linemen can be kinda shit but that one guy has to stand up to some scary guys.
Click to expand...
Yep, cause those guys in the middle of the offense don't deal with scary dudes at all. I mean who's worried about the Geno Atkins of the world? Just let him wreck the middle of your offensive line. As long as you have a defense it'll be ok!

I don't know if I disagree with the assertion that you're better off picking a more "premium" position with a first round pick but I think that's a one size fits all viewpoint that doesn't automatically gel with every teams makeup.
 
S

Striker

Member
How did Calvin Johnson have 120+ catches and 1,900+ yards, but just five TD's?

Vyroxis said:
In his first few seasons, for sure. Moss could just flat out embarrass defenders every play. Later on though, his attitude really killed him as people got sick of his antics. Awesome receiver, Poor attitude.
Click to expand...
First six brah

ySn5aqn.jpg
 
D

Doomsayer

Member
Futurevoid said:
Yep, cause those guys in the middle of the offense don't deal with scary dudes at all. I mean who's worried about the Geno Atkins of the world? Just let him wreck the middle of your offensive line. As long as you have a defense it'll be ok!
Click to expand...

I think it's kind of true though.

It's pretty easy to find/develop interior lineman, there are very few premier tackles in the league though.

It really comes down to scheme.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Having a very good O-Line coach trumps taking the supposed most talented O Lineman early. If you have a good coach you can draft more of them later and play strength in numbers and weed out the weak players because it's so technique driven. Most players have similar physical abilities.
 
D

Draxal

Member
Errr, Zach Martin isn't just an interior olineman, he can play tackle as well and most likely will at a certain point down the road.

As for the 2007/8 Giants if Snee/Mackenzie weren't as good as they were the Giants wouldn't have been in the playoffs.

Also, Ben/Eli/Tony are old as fuck now, you definitely want some bellweather lineman for them.
 
D

Dutch Gronk

Banned
Vyroxis said:
In his first few seasons, for sure. Moss could just flat out embarrass defenders every play. Later on though, his attitude really killed him as people got sick of his antics. Awesome receiver, Poor attitude.
Click to expand...

Young Moss and Patriots Moss emberassed everybody.

I don't care about the attitude problem, straight up as a WR he was the most dominanted receiver I have ever seen.

Bowser said:
Uh, no. Dave Dameshek fucking sucks. Annoying little shit. I hate when he shits up the ATL podcast.
Click to expand...

Co-signed.

Fuck him
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Honestly, the drug policy for the NFL favors players doing cocaine instead of smoking marijuana. It's out of their system in a day, so they can go all Manziel during the offseason and have to get incredibly unlucky to get pinched during the season.

Only reason I can see someone getting caught is via arrest. And we all know that doesn't happen to rich football players.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Randy Moss>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Megatron

Stop it Kas.

Send Calvin to die in Oakland and he'd quit on them too. At least with Stafford he can pad his stats.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
You guys might be exaggerating Randy Moss a bit. He's not that much better than CJ.

Remember that Megatron plays for the Lions, has Fatford throwing to him, and he plays for the Lions.
 
T

The Artful Dodger

Member
wienke said:
You guys might be exaggerating Randy Moss a bit. He's not that much better than CJ.

Remember that Megatron plays for the Lions, has Fatford throwing to him, and he plays for the Lions.
Click to expand...

If they were drafted the same year and we were talking about them pre-draft...I could see that. But at this point it's just not even a real conversation to be had.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Farooq said:
I follow a Cowboys sbnation blog. They had the opportunity to ask the author of Football Outsiders 2014 Almanac some questions.

There is one part that I found interesting. The author Scott Kacsmar didn't like the Zack Martin pick. His reasoning:



What I wanted to discuss is the last paragraph in bold. I am curious if people on here feel the same way? That the variation in performance of guards and centers does not warrant a first round pick. A teams resources could be better spent. And in the case of the Cowboys, those resources should have been spent on the defense because it was a more pressing need. He also feels that generally a defense is a better friend to a QB.
Click to expand...
Defense is always great, but the Saints, Pats and Packers have all proven that you can have a Super Bowl capable team without one in recent times.

Basically, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I think if a team sees a weakness at the O-line, they are stupid not to address it, unless they've got much bigger concerns. It also depends on what sort of QB you've got. Wilson is elusive and can make you pay for going after him too hard. The Rapist was also notoriously hard to take down and still managed to make lots of plays under pressure. Many QB's cant do that. Brady and Manning aren't shit if they aren't protected, for instance.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
The Artful Dodger said:
If they were drafted the same year and we were talking about them pre-draft...I could see that. But at this point it's just not even a real conversation to be had.
Click to expand...

It's like when people say that Rodgers is better than Favre. Or at least when I say that.

Obviously Rodgers hasn't had the career that Favre has had but the eyeball test tells you that Rodgers is better. I think the stats also speak for themselves because I can't remember really any game where I felt that Rodgers personally shit the bed and we lost. Offense out of sync? Rodgers making some bonehead mistakes? Sure. Not even comparable to how it was when Favre was around breaking our hearts.

CJ hasn't had the career that Moss has had yet. The only reason CJ may eventually have a better career is because he won't be sent to die in Oakland for two years.

I'm not sure if I could say that CJ is better than Moss or will ever be better than Moss but it's a debate either worth having or will be worth having.

I personally think that fumbling son of a bitch Jerry Rice is better than either of them but what do I know?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I'll wait until Johson's career is over before determining whether he's better than Moss or not. As of right now? No, but he's close. Yards wise they're pretty damn similar, seven years in. The biggest difference is in TDs (90 for Moss in seven seasons, 66 for Megatron). His most TDs came in Stafford's best year (16), and it'll be interesting to see if that type of production is replicated now that Stafford's mechanics are (allegedly) better.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Randy Moss BSed it for 95% of his career and is still a top 5 receiver of all-time. The man just oozed talent out of his pores. Imagine if he actually gave a fuck at some point.
 
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