Damn you :lol
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NHL Lockout With Your Cock Out |OT|
- Thread starter Marvie_3
- Start date
It's all posturing.
January 1st hockey as I've said from the beginning.
They'll be back talking again on Monday.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
"We did what we had to do in 2004." "The new system dramatically grew the game."
.... But seriously, they need to take less money.
.... But seriously, they need to take less money.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Ain't this some shit. Bettman sounds like he is ready to slap someone lol.
Owners believe they should have more of that.
Superstar player goes to team 1 they offer 6 years
Goes to team 2... Says he will take a little less than team 1 but for 7 years
Goes to team 3.... Says he will take a little less than team 2 but for 8 years
Goes back to team 1 says best offer is x, will take a little less than team 3 but for 9 years
And so on
You limit contract length and it removes players looking for best guarantees
Another problem with longer term contracts is they are harder to insure.
Another problem with longer term contracts is players who become unable to play or unable to play at a higher level are ensure payment but are essentially blocking more deserving players from getting pay raises (dipietro)
It's not just protection for owners, its protection for players
Didn't they just offer 50/50?
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Heh. I agree with Bettman on something. Coverage of CBA is shit universally. This isn't unique to hockey. Read the coverage of your local FOP or NEA negotiation.
The people I feel sorry for with this lockout is:
- the low level people who aren't making much money anyways who can't go to work (people who work in the arenas, equipment managers, zamboni drivers, etc.) due to the greed of rich people
- the fans, who are nothing but pawns used by both sides
- the 4th line guys who aren't making top money and whose jobs are anything but secure from year to year
- players in the 35-37 year old range, whose careers are likely going to end because of this
I feel no remorse for rich players and rich owners. Eat a dick, Mr. "Im getting paid $10M to jerk off and play X-Box lolz" Parise.
- the low level people who aren't making much money anyways who can't go to work (people who work in the arenas, equipment managers, zamboni drivers, etc.) due to the greed of rich people
- the fans, who are nothing but pawns used by both sides
- the 4th line guys who aren't making top money and whose jobs are anything but secure from year to year
- players in the 35-37 year old range, whose careers are likely going to end because of this
I feel no remorse for rich players and rich owners. Eat a dick, Mr. "Im getting paid $10M to jerk off and play X-Box lolz" Parise.
Coldnoodle
Member
This is actually pretty entertaining. Get the HBO 24/7 team there!
This. Normally when he's handing out trophies on ice it starts subtly and gradually increases as the fan boos reign down.
Anyway, the NHL is a bunch of clowns. If they really reached an agreement where they reduce player revenue from 57 to 50 AND reached an agreement on Make Whole where they don't have to fully honor the contracts as written, they've already won.
Bettman and/or Daly's comments:
-"like all of you and our fans, this for me has been a week that has been, if nothing else, an emotional rollercoaster".
-Put together a process they'd hope move things along (owners and players).
-Sense was there was good communication, optimism, and hope. Reported that in the BoG meetings. Optimism "almost inexplicably" disappeared Wednesday afternoon.
-Owners decided to try and continue to do everything possible to make a new CBA. Key for everyone (in particular the owners) was to have a long term agreement. BSing about "that's what everyone deserves".
-With that view in mind, the owners (in particular the new ones in the process), wanted to "push ahead and do something bold". What they did was "virtually put a new $100 million on the table in the hopes that that would show we wanted to get back and play".
-Union's response was "shockingly silent". "Thank you, we'll take the $100 million". The owners were "beside themselves". "Don't know what happened, this process is over. The union clearly doesn't want to make a deal".
-Reported that to the players. Player reaction: "Don't leave, we'll get back on track. Cooler heads will prevail". Owners made another "bold move". We'll give up some things that are important (some contracting issues), and we'll tell you what we need. That was in response to the union saying the pension plan was the "key element" for them. This is in contrast to the union earlier in the process saying "make whole" was the key element.
-Owners will tell you the 3 or 4 things we need. We need you to give us the 3 or 4 things the way we ask for them. If you do that, we'll figure out your pension and get it done. Last night and this morning it was reiterated the NHL needed those key elements (not movement, but needed those elements). Were expecting a yes or no answer on those elements. If yes, could proceed with wrapping up pension and other elements. If no, there was no further need to talk.
-"The take, or give, or bottom line is it appears that the union is suggesting that because we made movements in certain elements that we're close to a deal. Those moves were contingent on other elements of the deal being accepted the way they were."
-CBA is a package deal.
-The sentiment that "we're close" is like the last time the union suggested it and they were a billion dollars apart.
-"We're going to take a deep breath, look back on where we are and what we've accomplished...We have to have a system that works right. It's all part of the package."
-"Disappointed beyond belief".
-Daly informed the union that the adds the NHL made this week are now off the table.
-It was relayed to the union prior to these meetings that Bettman was already being pressured to take "make whole" off the table.
-Wasn't going to take "make whole" off the table, because he wanted to do everything possible to make a deal.
-Daly stressing that it's a package deal. Union can't pick and choose elements and change others. Make whole is tied to the 10 year CBA length, tied to the other issues, etc.
-Term limits on contracts "vitally important" to owners, and players needed to recognize it.
-Length of the CBA "extremely important".
-Compliance buyouts and escrow limits popped up this week. "as part of the package deal, moving away from the contracting issues, the compliance issues were part of the package deal. No compliance buyouts. No escrow limits."
-NHL trying to address everything PA says are the "main issues". PA keeps switching.
-Owners wanted to walk out last night, players asked them not to.
-Term limit on contracts "the hill we will die on"
-Union to suggest we are close is "cherry picking"
-Late last night, the format that had been created, and had on Tuesday given us our most productive day, the players said was over. Since we were looking for a simple "yes or no" we didnt feel the need to "match lines"
-"if they want to meet, we will meet. We are assuming they wont ask us to meet unless they have something to move the process forward. They know where we are."
-"There's no reason for anyone to suggest trust is an issue. Collective bargaining is a tough issue. Everyone is a professional, everyone loves the game, everyone wants it back on the ice."
-Not the first time Fehr has said they were close when they weren't, especially given that he knew the NHL's stance on everything being a "package deal". Incomprehensible why he'd suggest that.
-They knew there was a major gulf between us, yet they came down here and told you we are close.
-The "make whole" concept itself is off the table.
-"Anything we put on the table this week is off the table"
-Transitional year was to allow teams this year to spend to cap of $70.2 million, while cap would be adjusted to $60 million.
-PA interested in "compliance buyouts". All of that money outside the system. For the NHL it's a "non starter".
-Escrow limits came up for the first time this week. More money outside the system. Non starter. Owners made it clear it was no acceptable.
-"I keep hearing we have some magic date. My magic date was the beginning of the season when we should have opened with a new collective bargaining agreement."
-Haven't set a drop dead date.
-Whether player contracting max is 5 years or 6 years or 4 years doesn't matter...Can't pick and choose issues from a package deal. Was based on the 10 year CBA offer.
-"What you're witnessing is very tough bargaining...We made 5 different offer. We did something unprecedented and made an offer against our own offer. The NHLPA essentially kept making the same offer over and over and over. Maybe we shouldn't have bargained against ourselves."
-"At some point you have to say 'this is the best that we can do'".
-Motivation in taking Fehr and Bettman out of the room was to get owners and players talking. PA came back in "let's include staff, and lawers, etc". NHL just wanted owners and players. Dynamic worked well on Tuesday, by Wednesday the dynamic had inexplicably changed.
-A lot has been written about decertification, you all might want to look at "disclaimer" which is what is more likely to happen. We don't view it in the same way in terms of its impact in the same way the union may. Not something we focus on the same way you do.
-We're cancelled through December 14, as we get closer to the 14th we're going to have to take another look at the calendar.
-Tried to sell extra $100 mil on make whole to the owners as "buying" more years on the CBA. That's why it's a package deal. That's how the owners accepted putting the extra "make whole" money on the table.
-Baseball had 8 consecutive works stoppages before they ushered in labor peace. I'm not happy about it, but I have to play the hand I'm dealt. I felt it was almost incomprehensible that the "save the season" offer was not accepted.
-It's about getting a working relationship, and we haven't had that.
-Too many people forget where we were 10 years ago. Game was unhealthy. Too many franchises that couldn't continue. Did what we had to in 2004 to keep the league healthy and will continue to do what is best for the game, the fans, and the players. The problem 8 years ago was the players were resistant to systemic change, which actually worked out very well for them.
-Public coverage of collective bargaining is tough because things may seem close, but lots of nuances. Package deal.
-Can't imagine wanting to play fewer than 48 games.
-Easy to say 'just keep negotiating...keep offering more and more and more'. At some point you have to say 'this is what we need...This is what we need to keep 30 healthy teams.'
-Having an agreement that doesn't work is not something we're prepared to go back to.
-Losing $18-$20 million a day. Players losing $8-$10 million in salaries. Would have been better for everyone to make a deal last February, or August, or October, but we are where we are.
-Biggest fear if we make the wrong deal we'll have more franchises in jeopardy.
Wow. That was long.
-"like all of you and our fans, this for me has been a week that has been, if nothing else, an emotional rollercoaster".
-Put together a process they'd hope move things along (owners and players).
-Sense was there was good communication, optimism, and hope. Reported that in the BoG meetings. Optimism "almost inexplicably" disappeared Wednesday afternoon.
-Owners decided to try and continue to do everything possible to make a new CBA. Key for everyone (in particular the owners) was to have a long term agreement. BSing about "that's what everyone deserves".
-With that view in mind, the owners (in particular the new ones in the process), wanted to "push ahead and do something bold". What they did was "virtually put a new $100 million on the table in the hopes that that would show we wanted to get back and play".
-Union's response was "shockingly silent". "Thank you, we'll take the $100 million". The owners were "beside themselves". "Don't know what happened, this process is over. The union clearly doesn't want to make a deal".
-Reported that to the players. Player reaction: "Don't leave, we'll get back on track. Cooler heads will prevail". Owners made another "bold move". We'll give up some things that are important (some contracting issues), and we'll tell you what we need. That was in response to the union saying the pension plan was the "key element" for them. This is in contrast to the union earlier in the process saying "make whole" was the key element.
-Owners will tell you the 3 or 4 things we need. We need you to give us the 3 or 4 things the way we ask for them. If you do that, we'll figure out your pension and get it done. Last night and this morning it was reiterated the NHL needed those key elements (not movement, but needed those elements). Were expecting a yes or no answer on those elements. If yes, could proceed with wrapping up pension and other elements. If no, there was no further need to talk.
-"The take, or give, or bottom line is it appears that the union is suggesting that because we made movements in certain elements that we're close to a deal. Those moves were contingent on other elements of the deal being accepted the way they were."
-CBA is a package deal.
-The sentiment that "we're close" is like the last time the union suggested it and they were a billion dollars apart.
-"We're going to take a deep breath, look back on where we are and what we've accomplished...We have to have a system that works right. It's all part of the package."
-"Disappointed beyond belief".
-Daly informed the union that the adds the NHL made this week are now off the table.
-It was relayed to the union prior to these meetings that Bettman was already being pressured to take "make whole" off the table.
-Wasn't going to take "make whole" off the table, because he wanted to do everything possible to make a deal.
-Daly stressing that it's a package deal. Union can't pick and choose elements and change others. Make whole is tied to the 10 year CBA length, tied to the other issues, etc.
-Term limits on contracts "vitally important" to owners, and players needed to recognize it.
-Length of the CBA "extremely important".
-Compliance buyouts and escrow limits popped up this week. "as part of the package deal, moving away from the contracting issues, the compliance issues were part of the package deal. No compliance buyouts. No escrow limits."
-NHL trying to address everything PA says are the "main issues". PA keeps switching.
-Owners wanted to walk out last night, players asked them not to.
-Term limit on contracts "the hill we will die on"
-Union to suggest we are close is "cherry picking"
-Late last night, the format that had been created, and had on Tuesday given us our most productive day, the players said was over. Since we were looking for a simple "yes or no" we didnt feel the need to "match lines"
-"if they want to meet, we will meet. We are assuming they wont ask us to meet unless they have something to move the process forward. They know where we are."
-"There's no reason for anyone to suggest trust is an issue. Collective bargaining is a tough issue. Everyone is a professional, everyone loves the game, everyone wants it back on the ice."
-Not the first time Fehr has said they were close when they weren't, especially given that he knew the NHL's stance on everything being a "package deal". Incomprehensible why he'd suggest that.
-They knew there was a major gulf between us, yet they came down here and told you we are close.
-The "make whole" concept itself is off the table.
-"Anything we put on the table this week is off the table"
-Transitional year was to allow teams this year to spend to cap of $70.2 million, while cap would be adjusted to $60 million.
-PA interested in "compliance buyouts". All of that money outside the system. For the NHL it's a "non starter".
-Escrow limits came up for the first time this week. More money outside the system. Non starter. Owners made it clear it was no acceptable.
-"I keep hearing we have some magic date. My magic date was the beginning of the season when we should have opened with a new collective bargaining agreement."
-Haven't set a drop dead date.
-Whether player contracting max is 5 years or 6 years or 4 years doesn't matter...Can't pick and choose issues from a package deal. Was based on the 10 year CBA offer.
-"What you're witnessing is very tough bargaining...We made 5 different offer. We did something unprecedented and made an offer against our own offer. The NHLPA essentially kept making the same offer over and over and over. Maybe we shouldn't have bargained against ourselves."
-"At some point you have to say 'this is the best that we can do'".
-Motivation in taking Fehr and Bettman out of the room was to get owners and players talking. PA came back in "let's include staff, and lawers, etc". NHL just wanted owners and players. Dynamic worked well on Tuesday, by Wednesday the dynamic had inexplicably changed.
-A lot has been written about decertification, you all might want to look at "disclaimer" which is what is more likely to happen. We don't view it in the same way in terms of its impact in the same way the union may. Not something we focus on the same way you do.
-We're cancelled through December 14, as we get closer to the 14th we're going to have to take another look at the calendar.
-Tried to sell extra $100 mil on make whole to the owners as "buying" more years on the CBA. That's why it's a package deal. That's how the owners accepted putting the extra "make whole" money on the table.
-Baseball had 8 consecutive works stoppages before they ushered in labor peace. I'm not happy about it, but I have to play the hand I'm dealt. I felt it was almost incomprehensible that the "save the season" offer was not accepted.
-It's about getting a working relationship, and we haven't had that.
-Too many people forget where we were 10 years ago. Game was unhealthy. Too many franchises that couldn't continue. Did what we had to in 2004 to keep the league healthy and will continue to do what is best for the game, the fans, and the players. The problem 8 years ago was the players were resistant to systemic change, which actually worked out very well for them.
-Public coverage of collective bargaining is tough because things may seem close, but lots of nuances. Package deal.
-Can't imagine wanting to play fewer than 48 games.
-Easy to say 'just keep negotiating...keep offering more and more and more'. At some point you have to say 'this is what we need...This is what we need to keep 30 healthy teams.'
-Having an agreement that doesn't work is not something we're prepared to go back to.
-Losing $18-$20 million a day. Players losing $8-$10 million in salaries. Would have been better for everyone to make a deal last February, or August, or October, but we are where we are.
-Biggest fear if we make the wrong deal we'll have more franchises in jeopardy.
Wow. That was long.
Little man is throwing down right now. Spittin' hot fire. Loving it.
You forgot EXCUSE ME IM TALKING!
wsoxfan1214
Banned
Fuck you, PA.
I have no idea what you're trying to prove.
It's still hypocritical.
They are essentially saying that we'll cancel the season because we wanted five-year limits on contracts.
The NHLPA is willing to accept limits on contract length. We know it's 8 years. What is wrong with this?
CrazedArabMan
Member
Probably the one time Bettman doesn't get booed during a speech.
Freyjadour
Member
Loved the hour by hour analysis there.
"My date was October 11th"
"My date was October 11th"
-Pyromaniac-
Member
that's what it sounds like.
I can't wait until they make a movie out of this.
Hope they get Ben from LOST to play Bettman:
http://youtu.be/JZ1yQdWWTKc?t=1m21s
Could you guys imagine how great that would be?
Hope they get Ben from LOST to play Bettman:
http://youtu.be/JZ1yQdWWTKc?t=1m21s
Could you guys imagine how great that would be?
That we locked out the players.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Did Bettman kick over the podium?
Clearly.
He's a cancer for forcing the owners to keep offering make whole
Yup
No, fehr/NHLPA is the cancer.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
That's why so much advanced when Bettman and Fehr weren't there. They're terrible.
I'm confident we lose a season here. The union will crack, as decertification will fail.
I thought it was the other way around, he didn't want to move on the make whole. I guess DGB's tweet is vague.
@NHLPodium: I thought that went well.
https://twitter.com/NHLPodium/status/276858428545183747
lololol
https://twitter.com/NHLPodium/status/276858428545183747
lololol
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Wait Wednesday was when "optimism vanished?" It's also the day that Campoli joined the group!
No shock. His ass will be gone, Gary will break the union, the NHL will win again, and we'll have hockey in October 2013.
CrazedArabMan
Member
I guess I will hold of my gifs for now, but man at least we are being entertained by this even with no hockey.
Now the media... The last true backers of the nhlpa outside the nhlpa... Are turning on fehr
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
LOL
Then Bettman will claim his new fancy CBA will assist franchises and all 30 teams will be healthy.
5 to 10 years later.
Wait, teams are still losing money. Force another lockout.
Repeat the cycle that started from the 2004 lockout.
Seriously, stop picking sides. Both sides are bullshitters.
Merguson, I'll elaborate.
You've got a 7 year CBA that outlines the rules. 30 owners are trying to compete with each other to have the most successful team. They do what they can to be competitive, knowing that the other 29 might/will take advantage of what they can. If you don't exploit what you can (eg, long term contracts), you're often left behind, even if it's something you'd rather not be doing. Consider it this way: it's basically like an arms race. If all sides could wipe nukes from existence and ensure that they never returned, they'd choose to do that.
You've got a 7 year CBA that outlines the rules. 30 owners are trying to compete with each other to have the most successful team. They do what they can to be competitive, knowing that the other 29 might/will take advantage of what they can. If you don't exploit what you can (eg, long term contracts), you're often left behind, even if it's something you'd rather not be doing. Consider it this way: it's basically like an arms race. If all sides could wipe nukes from existence and ensure that they never returned, they'd choose to do that.
Definitely. The NHL is a self-fulfilling joke.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Pretty much what many of us were saying would happen. Too bad the players were too stupid to see it, too.
The players WILL break. You've got a ton of guys like Dan Cleary who know that if they miss a season or more, their career is over.
exactly
I feel confident we'll miss 1.5 seasons.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I think it's an appropriate time to raid the liqueur cabinet.
Fake edit: Upshall comments? Holy fuck he's one to talk.
Fake edit: Upshall comments? Holy fuck he's one to talk.