Just need to excerpt Jamal Mayers' Twitter feed.
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NHL Lockout With Your Cock Out |OT|
- Thread starter Marvie_3
- Start date
Just need to excerpt Jamal Mayers' Twitter feed.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
You realize that a ULP needs a specific statutory hook right? I'm talking about from a legal perspective. This type of thing isn't commonly litigated since most unions aren't trying to decertify for antitrust purposes....
Tell me, professor, what do you think the legal theory will be?
I'm pretty sure a disclaimer of interest is considered bad faith bargaining if it is being used as a tactical maneuver to avoid labor laws, which is literally what the PA is threatening to do. It's like any other legal "sham" move and can be ignored.
Its always darkest before dawn!!!
BigJonsson
Member
Puck those guys
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
#TeamNope #YOLO
TEAM NOPE RESORTING TO BAD FAITH QUOTING PRACTICES!
KingHenrik30
Member
So THIS is weird:
Though shouldn't half the containers on the ship be gone?
Probably...But that would've taken me more than 90 seconds to do and fuck that.
Basically because its a lockout, a disclaimer of interest is to end the lockout instead of bargaining.
That's why NHL has taken this to court, because the NHLPA has barely done any negotiating and before voting on any offer - whether through the 30 team representatives (which oddly don't represent all 30 teams) or through majority of membership they go right to DOI. There is plenty of other things the NHLPA did like not going to the meeting table until the lockout was basically upon them... Which can be shown as an intentional disruption to the business... As well as things like bringing the exact same proposal to the nhl multiple times in a row, calling in mediators to delay an ongoing process... Then calling in mediators again for show, not because they were willing to bend in any way. They made a mockery of the process while the NHL has acted in good faith.
So nhl will take to court to prove the lockout is legal to void any upcoming disclaimer of interest as its a ploy to either make the nhl bend to their whims or to screw the way the nhl operates up
I just don't like the NHLPA.So much hope on this page...
The nope crowd just seems they don't like hockey as much...
Crucify Me! you're already negative enough!
KingHenrik30
Member
what the hell??
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
.
Oh yeah
Forgot there's also NHLPA bullying its members (hamrlik anyone?) or not representing the entire union body - NHLPA has been all for the rich of the rich
Both are unfair labor practices but more on players side and not on nhl-NHLPA side
Shane Prince lol wtf.
Yeah, I don't like them either...
Does it actually seem that way? AFAIC, Nope is for those that don't like being duped day-in, day-out by a twitter media that thrives on putting out half-baked speculation as insider information and a negotiation process that is 99% smoke and mirrors.So much hope on this page...
The nope crowd just seems they don't like hockey as much...
Crucify Me! you're already negative enough!
I'm definitely not stupid enough to believe that a half-season is impossible, nor cynical enough that I wouldn't love for NHL hockey to return ASAP.
BigJonsson
Member
They named players who talked about decertification with the media
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Awesome. :lol
The twitter idiots burning the union stance LOL
Same.
I think that's where quite a few of us are now.
I'm just hoping the NHL returns this season...
It's not like I don't have a life, I just hope it returns this season...
Happy the WJC is on soon though...
Or they are taking ridiculous tweets, some of which are threatening Bettman, trying to suppress hamrlik?
They are still union members
Not entirely fair. Why is Westgarth and Hainsey taking an active role? They know, if the stars get more, it trickles down.
For example, if the salary cap is higher, then all the salaries increase by a little bit more. If Parise gets a higher contract in terms of years, then everyone else gets a bit more.
Hamrlik is a 38 year old on his last year of his contract. He couldn't careless about the CBA (which is why he is back home) because he won't be in the NHL by year 2 or 3 of the new CBA. So he knows that whatever the deal is, he'll still get paid. But if he loses 3.8 million this year, he won't earn that money ever again.
Read this article on why its important that stars get higher contracts. You can read a quote from Hainsey on his UFA status during his UFA year. He sat fourth in line behind Campbell, Redden and then Rosival. He gets less money depending on how much guys ahead of him get.
Detroit used to sign everyone to reasonable contracts because Lidstrom/Datsyuk were making 6 million and Holland would say "Surely, you aren't better than those two."
This article does a good job of explaining it as well. "How Parise signing for 13 years is good for Kyle Brodziak"
While I don't agree with the NHLPA in terms of what they've done, I can see why these are big issues. The salary cap will assuredly go down for the next few years. Players, who have a very short career length of 8-10 years if they are lucky, are trying to earn the most that they can. Guys who aren't stars will earn less if the higher guys earn less. That's why they don't want contracts limited by 7 years especially since NHL contracts are guaranteed aside from being bought out.
BigJonsson
Member
WJC games are at 4am =/
Freyjadour
Member
Tweets threatening decert/disclaim are highlighted I'm sure.
The problem with this argument is that it primarily uses back-diving contracts as it's defense.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
That's what I figured, but the issue is I don't see how you can call decertifying to file a legitimate case bad faith. It's a due process thing. The PA can't make that case unless they decertify. It's legitimately an interesting legal question to me.
Freyjadour
Member
On the Prince / Nieves bit of the ULP:
hfboards said:
Not entirely (although if you can provide a source from you with the NHL or NHLPA on why they shouldn't care, I hadn't heard why). The NHL only wants limited contracts because a) contracts are only insurable for a max of 7 and b) prevents themselves from signing players to ridiculous deals that if they get injured or decrease in ability, they won't be screwed for another 5-6 years. Players offered 5% variance so they could keep length. But alas, they agreed to limited contracts but no number has been agreed upon.
Anyways, from a NHLPA perspective,
Think about this. If, hypothetically, Pietrangelo, UFA, signs a deal and gets 7 years. That is 7 years of a stable contract. He knows, for 7 years, he'll get paid. It's why some players are willing to give up money for term. It's why Maxime Talbot signed in Philly over Pittsburgh. Four years is huge to a 4th line guy.
So Shattenkirk, a UFA as well, sees this deal. All GMs see that Pietrangelo has set the market. He's the next best guy. But he won't see 7 years at all since everyone knows that Pietrangelo is a top pairing defensman and (for the sake of this argument) Shattenkirk is a solid #3 d-man. So Shattenkirk will only be offered 4-6 years. He signs for 4 years.
Now Kevin Westgarth, also a UFA, sees Shattenkirk signs for 4 years. He got traded to St. Louis before his UFA. The GM of St. Louis will say "well, we can't offer you 4 since you can see only #3 d-men get 4 years. We can offer you, since you are a #4-5 dman, 2 years maximum.
And down the list. Years are security. This is an important thing for players. I know that Jagr/Broduer, this summer, were offered better contracts in terms of money per year and Cup chances, but the reason they signed with Jersey and Dallas was because of the second year in case of a lockout. Players get bumped up or down depending on the highest range. For Crosby, he'll sign a max contract. He'll, barring injury, will be in the league till he's 40. Maxime Talbot probably won't be. But he gets four years since everyone else gets bumped up because there isn't a limit.
So how would players get more if stars would earn more while the nhl rebalances itself to be profitable? Would the players get more money if structured like the MLB or in a state of decertification?
The answer is... No. Money doesn't trickle down, just like how it doesn't with reaganomics.
The problem solely revolves around the players completely disillusioned notion that there's a lot more money floating around, which is downright false.
So any player that sides with that is fucking stupid.
Some bozo player might get an overpayment and stars will be paid more... But everyone else will get paid less.
I was just talking to an old NHL player no less than an hour ago who was livid that the players were going DOI route - and he played making $7500 a year - just outright pissed how downright destructive they are being
and no, I have no need to read articles because I have a pretty good understanding of how things work and work against each other.
Okay, I wasn't sure. Because I presented two well-written articles with direct sources from NHL players themselves including one from Friedmann. But I don't even think you read my post because the logic works and is sound, and its why the NHLPA is fighting for longer contracts. They said it repeatedly on many occasions. You couldn't have read my post or you would have understand why players want longer contracts. Because if your #1 player gets 5 years, you aren't getting 5 years. Contracts work on comparables. It's why teams cringe when they see player X sign for that money because they know that they will have to offer that amount to be competitive.
It doesn't working in a government because businesses can keep money for themselves.
The NHL teams HAVE to spend the money. They have to spend a minimum salary to a max salary each year. On top of this, players have a maximum and minimum contracts they can earn in the NHL.
If Crosby gets paid 20% of the team's salary and all fourth liners get paid 5%. More money will go to the fourth liners. But if Crosby takes more of the pie, they won't get that money. For Crosby, he'll be paid regardless because of his percentage. But those fourth liners, who's careers are shorter will earn less money.
This is nothing like how government spending works. I mean, I can't believe you would think that. We have salary caps and max contracts. The salary has jumped by nearly 20 million in the last 7 years. The stars only get a percentage of that, but because of maximum length of deals, the weaker players are getting more as well. Look at how much Jody Shelley and Colton Orr got the last time they were UFAs. Over 1.0 million for fighters.
Freyjadour
Member
Players did not offer 5% variance, the NHL did. The players offered:
So, essentially 75% variance.
Also, the second article is a defense of Parise's back-diving contract and how specifically it helps out the little guys.
KernelPanic
Member
Hainsey pretty much said somewhere he wants other players to have a chance to be overpaid like he was.
Finally my nocturnal sleep schedule will be of benefit to me.
You're correct. My point still stands about the years. I thought the NHLPA originally offered variance as a way to keep contract length open but I must have mistaken myself. Still, even with variance, contract lengths trickle down. It's a big deal. Players know that it will trickle down. That's how their deals are decided. A max contract length would only everyone.
Freyjadour
Member
More like this:
NHL has revenue
The number one controllable in business is labor
NHL has expenses. Right now through CBA about 50% of fixed costs are handled before application of HRR- that's going to turn into 100% in a decertified environment.
So right now you have 20 teams losing money, yes?
Average out every team currently profits $5 mil per team. Teams need to be at bare minimum $15-20 million profit to be properly self sustaining. So you'd be looking at roughly 20 teams reducing their payroll by $20 million, another 5 reducing about $10 and 5 increasing their payroll upwards of $25 million
So that's a reduction of in between 15-20% in total league spending (potentially understating)
But now you have players like Crosby, stamkos, perry, ovechkin, etc making $15 million per year
Top end prospects like MacKinnon signed by a team for a stupid amount of money because people think they'll be the next Gretzky
What about any player on 3rd and 4th line? League minimum is no longer 550k or whatever it is. What about the middle players that now share a smaller portion of money thanks to NHL reallocation of money to become profitable and because the high end players are now earning more money?
That's why that article is bunk. It's horseshit. Look at MLB how the revenue and player expenses increased at alternating rates - and how they now earn the lowest share in all of pro sports
Oh those players must be getting paid super well because the stars get a stupid amount of money
Not so. It makes it look good right now because revenue kept increasing. What happens when a major correction occurs like what would happen in the nhl? System shock.
Any player not in the top 30 earners would lose- NO QUESTION