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NHL Lockout With Your Cock Out |OT|

K

Kifimbo

Member
The 3rd proposal is a joke apparently, because it can't mathematically happen.

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
So, if you guarantee every cent of every signed contract without escrow, there's zero way to get to 50/50.
Click to expand...
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
brucewaynegretzky said:
NHL: Makes offer
PA: Makes similar offer that you admit is grounds to keep negotiating
NHL: Screams and throws hands in the air in an attempt to look like they're negotiating
You: Damn the PA.
Click to expand...

NHL: makes offer
NHLPA: makes offer
NHL: makes new offer
NHLPA: presents same offer
NHL: makes new offer
NHLPA: presents same offer with an added year
NHL: makes new offer
NHLPA: presents same offer with a slight variance in their favor

Yep, that sure sounds like a negotiation alright!

I am now genuinely excited to cheer on the replacement players and I personally don't give two fucks if anybody in the NHLPA ever plays a game again.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
DopeyFish said:
NHL: makes offer
NHLPA: makes offer
NHL: makes new offer
NHLPA: presents same offer
NHL: makes new offer
NHLPA: presents same offer with an added year
NHL: makes new offer
NHLPA: presents same offer with a slight variance in their favor

Yep, that sure sounds like a negotiation alright!

I am now genuinely excited to cheer on the replacement players and I personally don't give two fucks if anybody in the NHLPA ever plays a game again.
Click to expand...

They offered a deal with a 50/50 split!?
 
S

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Solo said:
I know why the NHLPA can't get this shit done - Fehr won't get off GAF.
Click to expand...

Not sure if one of the more elaborate burns I've seen in NHL-GAF or if I'm just misreading...

134130458049.gif


EDIT: K good I'm not the only one. Epic burn confirmed.
 
C

CCF23

Member
Kifimbo said:
It's simple. Players choose principles over pragmatism. They want all contracts honored. Otherwise it's a betrayal to them.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand why the contracts shouldn't be honored?

Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype
Think of the outcry that greeted any NHLer who tried to renege on a contract he signed to get a better deal. That's what owners are doing.
Click to expand...

I was pissed off when I heard Bettman say the PA didn't even come close to touching 50/50, but hearing the offers they made, the NHL can shove it. They were offering to go to 50/50 immediately as long as the current contracts are honored.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
CCF23 said:
I don't really understand why the contracts shouldn't be honored?



I was pissed off when I heard Bettman say the PA didn't even come close to touching 50/50, but hearing the offers they made, the NHL can shove it. They were offering to go to 50/50 immediately as long as the current contracts are honored.
Click to expand...
Wasn't that after a few years and based on certain growth?
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
CCF23 said:
I don't really understand why the contracts shouldn't be honored?



I was pissed off when I heard Bettman say the PA didn't even come close to touching 50/50, but hearing the offers they made, the NHL can shove it. They were offering to go to 50/50 immediately as long as the current contracts are honored.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the players were basically asking for a percentage of old contracts to be "off cap" but that doesn't seem entirely unreasonable when they're willing to accept a lower cap to begin with. Owners can let the old deals fade away over time and work within pretty damn close to the exact framework they wanted.

EDIT: This is entirely wrong. I thought the PA was asking for even more than they are. Holy hell.
 
S

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Please tell me where in the NHL proposal it says that contracts aren't honoured, their proposal says they are. If it's in that weird "escrow" thing, someone please explain to me what that is, because I have no idea.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
DopeyFish said:
They actually didn't. It's delinked. So what you think their 50% is... If league revs go down its nowhere close to 50%
Click to expand...

Which makes a hell of a lot of sense considering the REASON they're agreeing to cap decrease is the presumption of continued growth.

This is like you moving the fieldposts with "league revenue" vs. "hockey/basketball/football revenue" yesterday to claim caps were much lower than they really are.
 
C

CCF23

Member
Socreges said:
Wasn't that after a few years and based on certain growth?
Click to expand...

No. Those were the other two offers the PA made. The third one was 50/50 immediately so long as all existing contracts are fully honored.

Which makes a hell of a lot of sense considering the REASON they're agreeing to cap decrease is the presumption of continued growth.

This is like you moving the fieldposts with "league revenue" vs. "hockey/basketball/football revenue" yesterday to claim caps were much lower than they really are.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you say in this thread.
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
Heretic said:
I'm siding with the players this time if third proposal about 50/50 and honoring contract is true.
Click to expand...

From what I've heard, one of the players' proposals hits 50/50 eventually. Like, the very last year of the deal.

CCF23 said:
Same here. Bettman said none of the players offers even came close to 50/50 which is an outright lie.
Click to expand...

His actual words (from the video on TSN): "None of the three variations of the player share that they gave us even began to approach 50/50, either at all or for some long period of time."
 
C

CCF23

Member
Zombie James said:
From what I've heard, one of the players' proposals hits 50/50 eventually. Like, the very last year of the deal.
Click to expand...

Two of them hit 50/50 eventually, one went there right away.

We are going to lose the season if the owners can't work with that third proposal.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's ridiculous. The NHL makes an offer, the PA takes it in, digests it, comes back with three counters. The NHL proceeds to shoot down all three in 15 minutes. Really sounds like a side that wants to negotiate.
 
H

Heretic

Member
Smiley90 said:
Even if



?
Click to expand...
They would have to have some sort of agreement seeing as they are lowering their HRR. Set it at 50/50, anything paid extra to honor contracts doesn't get added to the cap.

Am I wrong in thinking this is possible?

Like paying them under the proverbial table.
 
K

Kifimbo

Member
Basically, the NHLPA is saying:

1. Honor our contracts (about 1.8 billion out of 3.3 billion in revenues).
2. If there is growth, keep the money (salaries not linked to revenues).
3. But if growth is higher than X%, you'll give us more money.
4. If growth is lower, then you're fucked and 50/50 will not be reached.
 
N

Nuklear

Banned
C

CREMSteve

Member
It's ridiculous how simple this should be (using the latest NHL proposal as a basis). The players should have come back with this today and we'd be watching hockey in two weeks.

1. Term:

• 10-year Agreement.

2. Applicable Players' Share:

• For each of the proceeding ten (10) years of the CBA, the Players' Share shall be Fifty (50) percent of Actual HRR.

3. Payroll Range:

• Payroll Range will be computed using existing methodology. For the 2012/13 season, the Payroll Range will be computed assuming HRR will remain flat year-over-year (2011/12 to 2012/13) at $3.303 Billion (assuming Preliminary Benefits of $95 Million).

• 2012/13 Payroll Range
Lower Limit = $43.9 Million
Midpoint = $51.9 Million
Upper Limit = $59.9 Million

• Appropriate "Transition Rules" to allow Clubs to exceed Upper Limit for the 2012/13 season only (but in no event will Club's Averaged Club Salary be permitted to exceed the pre-CBA Upper Limit of $70.2 Million).

4. Cap Accounting:

• Payroll Lower Limit must be satisfied without performance bonuses.

• All years of existing SPCs will be accounted for and charged against a team's Cap (at full AAV) regardless of whether or where the Player is playing.

• Money paid to Players on NHL SPCs (one-ways and two-ways) in another professional league will not be counted against the Players' Share, but all dollars paid in excess of $105,000 will be counted against the NHL Club's Averaged Club Salary for the period during which such Player is being paid under his SPC while playing in another professional league.

5. System Changes:

• Entry Level System commitment will be limited to two (2) years (covering two full seasons) for all Players who sign their first SPC between the ages of 18 and 24 (i.e., where the first year of the SPC only covers a partial season, SPC must be for three (3) years).

• Maintenance of existing Salary Arbitration System subject to: (i) total mutuality of rights with regard to election as between Player and Club, and (ii) eligibility for election moved to five years of professional experience (from the current four years).

• Group 3 UFA eligibility for Players who are 27 or who have eight (8) Accrued Seasons (continues to allow for early UFA eligibility -- age 26).

• Maximum contract length of five (5) years.

• Limit on year-to-year salary variability on multi-year SPCs -- i.e., maximum increase or decrease in total compensation (salary and bonuses) year-over-year limited to 10% of the value of the first year of the contract. (For example, if a Player earns $10 million in total compensation in Year 1 of his SPC, his compensation (salary and bonuses) cannot increase or decrease by more than $1,000,000 in any subsequent year of his SPC.)

• Re-Entry waivers will be eliminated, consistent with the Cap Accounting proposal relating to the treatment of Players on NHL SPCs playing in another professional league.

• NHL Clubs who draft European Players obtain four (4) years of exclusive negotiating rights following selection in the Draft. If the four-year period expires, Player will be eligible to enter the League as a Free Agent and will not be subject to re-entering the Draft.

6. Revenue Sharing:

• NHL commits to Revenue Sharing Pool of $200 million for 2012/13 season (based on assumption of $3.303 Billion in actual HRR). Amount will be adjusted upward or downward in proportion to Actual HRR results for 2012/13. Revenue Sharing Pools in future years will be calculated proportionately.

• At least one-half of the total Revenue Sharing Pool (50%) will be raised from the Top 10 Revenue Grossing Clubs in a manner to be determined by the NHL.

• The distribution of the Revenue Sharing Pool will be determined on an annual basis by a Revenue Sharing Committee on which the NHLPA will have representation and input.

• For each of the first two years of the CBA, no Club will receive less in total Revenue Sharing than it received in 2011/12.

7. Supplemental and Commissioner Discipline:

• Introduction of additional procedural safeguards, including ultimate appeal right to a "neutral" third-party arbitrator with a "clearly erroneous" standard of review.

8. No "Rollback":

• The NHL is not proposing that current SPCs be reduced, re-written or rolled back. Instead, the NHL's proposal retains all current Players' SPCs at their current face value for the duration of their terms.
Click to expand...

See? Easy!
 
V

Veitsev

Member
Kifimbo said:
Basically, the NHLPA is saying:

1. Honor our contracts (about 1.8 billion out of 3.3 billion in revenues).
2. If there is growth, keep the money (salaries not linked to revenues).
3. But if growth is higher than X%, you'll give us more money.
4. If growth is lower, then you're fucked and 50/50 will not be reached.
Click to expand...

Pretty much! The league lost a year for cost certainty (linkage) and they aren't going to agree to this shit.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
Veitsev said:
Pretty much! The league lost a year for cost certainty (linkage) and they aren't going to agree to this shit.
Click to expand...

That's basically it, Fehr is trying to get rid of the escrow system which is funny because a good chunk of those payments go into revenue sharing.

Oh and the 3rd proposal is impossible.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly on Union's third proposal, which Fehr said called for a 50-50 split of HRR after all contracts are honored:

Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
"The so called 50-50 deal, plus honoring current contracts proposed by the NHL Players' Association earlier today is being misrepresented...

Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
"It's not a 50-50 deal. It is, most likely, a 56 to 57% deal in Yr. 1 and never gets to 50% during the proposed 5-yr term of the agreement.

Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
"The proposal contemplates paying the players approximately $650 million outside the players' share. In effect, the Union is proposing...

Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
"to change the accounting rules to be able to say 50-50, when really it is not. ...

Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
"The Union told us that they had not yet 'run the numbers.' We did." End of Daly quote.
Click to expand...

Yikes, the PA didn't even run the numbers? There really is no way to get to 50-50 today and let the players keep what they're owed on existing contracts while linkage is maintained.
 
K

Kifimbo

Member
Man, the players are making fools of themselves on Twitter.

Max Pacioretty ‏@MaxPacioretty67
. @Waddingly3 if what we do is so easy why don't you buy skates and tryout for an NHL team? I have devoted my whole life to my job
Click to expand...

Just like everybody devoted his own life to a particular field. Except you make millions a year, most of us make 30-100k a year.
 
C

CrankyJay

Banned
Kifimbo said:
Man, the players are making fools of themselves on Twitter.



Just like everybody devoted his own life to a particular field. Except you make millions a year, most of us make 30/100k a year.
Click to expand...

Lol, this is getting good. Piss on the fans who come to see you.
 
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