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NHL Off-Season 2013 |OT2| The Teemu Selanne Sweepstakes
- Thread starter Socreges
- Start date
KingHenrik30
Member
Paul Holmgren everybody
also found this interesting:
Flyers aren't even trying to hide it at this point
KingHenrik30
Member
They aren't parading him around the draft floor and then saying things out loud like "he's not going to play again and he has a hard time doing off ice things"
When was the last time Boston said anything about Savard?
Let's be honest here, he's never gonna play again, nor is he making any attempt to come back. If that's the case, better to say something along the lines of "we'll see he's trying everyday" as opposed to essentially "nope, we tried to have him do office work but he can't even do that"
KingHenrik30
Member
He can't even do the front office work is what Holgrem said. If he can't do that, how is he making a legitimate attempt at a comeback?
The difference between Savard and Pronger is that the Flyers have him in the public eye. If they are going to try and circumvent the cap they should probably be a bit more stealthy about it.
Zod the Bear
Member
How is he supposed to make an attempt to come back? He can't even play ball with his kids.
I don't think they're parading him around for the sake of proving he can't play hockey. He lost everything overnight with that injury. I'm sure that if he didn't feel like being involved, he wouldn't be. The Flyers are known for looking out for their own. I doubt they're strong arming him into being in front of the camera and being involved around the office. He probably wants to be useful, so they're letting him in whatever capacity he's able.
edit: They're not circumventing the cap. The rule was put in place to stop teams from signing players that had no intention of playing the final years on the contract to lower their cap hit: not to penalize teams who have players who suffered career ending injuries.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Needed a hockey fix, applied to EA.
It was kind of difficult to work my hockey knowledge into my resume/cover letter though.
It was kind of difficult to work my hockey knowledge into my resume/cover letter though.
A Serious Man
Member
He even has trouble handling off-ice roles? That's kind of scary.
EA Burnaby is a beautiful campus/complex though. Good luck.
Isn't NHL made by EA Montreal or something though?
KingHenrik30
Member
That's the point. Players that are put on LTIR are supposed to be actively trying to come back. LTIR has nothing to do with back diving contracts.
Coldnoodle
Member
I thought your avatar was the LA Kings logo :lol
pretty sure it's EA Vancouver
although they don't actually work on the game, they just update de roster every year and put an old feature back in with a "BRAND NEW FEATURE" stamp, instead of fixing the fucking menus and bugs
Shit, it's not? I had to go back and check. It really isn't. Well then.
It's EA Vancouver for sure. They had a team in Halifax work on the PS2 and PC versions of NHL 09 though, I had a friend who worked on it.
Zod the Bear
Member
The CBA his contract was signed under states that LTIR applies to players who are unable to perform his duties as a hockey player (as deemed the Club's physician) for at least 24 calendar days and 10 regular season games. If the League disagrees with the physician, they can challenge and have a neutral physician make the call. It continues until the player is deemed fit to play.
As written, it is designed for players under contract who can't play long term. Pronger clearly can't play. I admittedly just skimmed over the old CBA section for it, but I'm missing any articles or illustrations saying that the player has to actively be trying to come back--it just says that when the physician deems him eligible to play that the LTIR status would no longer apply.
Career ending injuries shouldn't screw over teams when the player had intended to play through the rest of their contract. It'd be cap circumvention if they hadn't planned on playing through the full contract per the 35+ rule, but given the injury we never got to that point to see what he would've done.
(this is just based off the 50.10.d section. If I'm missing something from somewhere else, I'll shut up.)
...me too. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked. Godamn upside down house trickery.
KingHenrik30
Member
That a player could suffer a career ending injury is part of the risk you assume by signing a player to a contract. LTIR isn't a safety net for these situations. If god forbid Pronger passed away at some point, the flyers would be stuck with his cap hit.
Why should they do that? Using LTIR for a player too badly injured to play again is not cap circumvention and the league has shown no intention of changing the rules to make it so. They could have done so as part of the new CBA if they thought it was a problem.
Please point me to the clause in the CBA which specifies what constitutes "actively trying to come back".
http://www.nhlpa.com/inside-nhlpa/collective-bargaining-agreement
I think even despite his character fixation, Bergevin's aware of his potential, or he would have been traded by now.
Yea I was joking, Beaulieu's ceiling is too high. If they trade him it will be in a package for a big forward. Still really stupid shit from him and his dad with Nathan being in the NHL now.
KingHenrik30
Member
LTIR is supposed to be an emergency cap relief. The promise you make is that eventually the player will be healthy enough to play again. Again, Pronger dies and they can't place his cap space on LTIR. his career would be over, no longer able to play.
Yeah I'm still worried he'll be traded, but I really hope he isn't. He's definitely a dumbass though.
KingHenrik30
Member
Not really. Is Prongers career over? If so then he shouldn't be getting the benefit of LTIR. It's pretty cut and dry. Injuries are part of the game, that's the risk you take signing any player.
Yep, totally on board the Orange bandwagaon for next year. Mushi #1 <3 4 ever. (sorry Dendi)
The crowd support they got in Malaysia alone would make Orange an easy team to root for.
Freyjadour
Member
Yellow baby.
Swaggy.
The Great Sea of Piss.
There's nothing in the CBA to support what you are claiming.
But I thought they were moving to Quebec??!?!?!
KingHenrik30
Member
http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-does-long-term-injured-reserve-LTIR-work
The assumption is that EVENTUALLY, the player will be healthy. Pronger is never going to be healthy enough to play hockey again.
Zod the Bear
Member
The CBA does make it pretty cut and dry, but not the way you're claiming. It specifically defines the parameters of LTIR, and Pronger qualifies.
Even if it was just a technical qualification, but violated the spirit of the status, wouldn't it have come up in the new CBA?
In almost everybody's dreams
The thread on HFboards about the Devils going under league ownership had like 600 posts
The thread about Harris wanting to buy the Devils the next day had like 30.
That quote is not from the CBA. The NHL is not bound or governed by your inference of an assumption made by the capgeek website.
I wonder if Brad Richards were to suffer a career ending injury this season and the Rangers were going to be stuck with his $6.67 million cap hit for the rest of the decade, if you would be quite so keen to have LTIR function in the way you are proposing.
Zod the Bear
Member
That's an assumption derived from CapGeek's wording. I didn't see it under the the old CBA.
In the new CBA:
"A Club may then exceed the Upper Limit due to the
addition of replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of Players who have
replaced an unfit-to-play Player, provided, however, that when the unfit-to-play Player is once again fit to play(including any period such Player is
on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan to
another league), the Club shall be required to once again reduce its
Averaged Club Salary to a level at or below the Upper Limit prior to the
Player being able to rejoin the Club."
The "is" does seem to presume that the player will be able to play again, and is probably what CapGeek got the line from. It keeps going, though. In the very next section, it includes:
"However, if the unfit-to-play Player once again becomes fit to play"
No assumption here. That is a big if that would not have been included if they had wanted cases like Pronger/Savard to not be included under LTIR.
edit: What Curufinwe said.
KingHenrik30
Member
LTIR isn't an insurance policy against career ending injuries like you think it is.
Rangers should sleep in the bed they made. That's the risk they took by signing Richards to that contract. It would suck but it is what it is. Flyers signed Pronger as a 35 year old. Him getting a career ending injury during that contract wasn't a surprise. It was part of the risk the Flyers assumed by signing him. He gets hits by a bus tomorrow (Ed note: i hope to god that doesn't ever happen), the Flyers take the full cap hit for the next 4 years. No LTIR, because his career would be over.
Zod the Bear
Member
There'd be no LTIR because he would no longer be a player under contract eligible for LTIR, being dead.
I understand where you're coming from, but the LTIR rules as written don't include the spirit you say it does. I'm not saying it shouldn't, but it's not in the CBA.
LTIR is exactly what it says it is the CBA. It wasn't changed for the new CBA and will continue to function as it has in the past. If it bothers you so much maybe you can make it your career goal to be involved with writing the new CBA 10 years from now.
Pronger's career ending injury was as surprising as any other player who was unfortunate enough to get hit in the eye with a stick or puck. It had nothing to do with his age.
KingHenrik30
Member
It certainly does. It's for long term injuries, not career ending ones. The player death situation makes that all the more apparent.
KingHenrik30
Member
Nope, it counts if its a 35+ contract.
What are you basing that claim on?
I think this is the relevant section starting on page 249, but you could easily argue that a dead player would no longer earning salary or bonuses. Instead, his family would be receiving insurance payments.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Smelly's people left out in the cold.
EDIT: Finland in 2014, just wait a bit longer Smelly.
CrazedArabMan
Member
'Merica!
Alexthekid?
USA! USA! USA!
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