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NHL Offensively - Is there anyone who is close to Gretzky/Lemieux?

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DarkJediKnight

Member
Not going to go down the road of who's the greatest ever, because I feel if Lemieux stayed healthy, he had a legitimate shot of breaking Gretzky's records.

Bottom line: They're the only players to score more than 160 points - LIKE EVER!!!. Think about that, 160 points. Doesn't sound like much since Gretzky had 215, and Lemieux had 199 in 76 games.

More shockingly: Had Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux didn't exist, the all time single season points leader would be Steve Frikken Yzerman! WHAT?!!! *mindblown* at 155 points.

We can talk about who played in what era, but the bottom line is, in the high scoring 80s and early 90s, no one could muster more than 155 points - which both Gretzky and Lemieux did multiple times.

These two simply ran away with the scoring titles. It wasn't if: "Hey, I wonder if Sidney Crosby can win the title this year?" It's along the lines of "If these guys play 1/2 a season. can anyone still stop them?"

IMO, both of these guys are GOAT! Special mention to Bobby Orr because the man is pure awesome!
 
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Big-E

Member
Game is completely different. Hockey I think is the sport that changed the most since the 80s compared to the other North American sports. Watch some old 80s oilers highlights and you will see so many soft goals that would be unthinkable today.
 
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Sanjuro

Member
Yes. It's Boston Bruins star and Dunkin Donuts employee, Tyler Seguin.

811gdwt.jpg
 
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SteveWinwood

Member
yes it would be hartford whalers star ron francis

if you allowed not nhl it would be tom webster when he played for the hartford whalers
 
M

Merguson

Banned
If God's Quarterback can win four superbowl rings, surely he can dominate other inferior athletes in other inferior sports.
 
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Parch

Member
Always going to get the "different era" argument, but when you compare Gretzky to the same era players, he's miles ahead. His best year was 215 points, second best that year was Lemieux with 141 points. It's not just the high scoring era when Gretzky was completely dominating the competition from the same era.

Lemieux was good, be he was no Gretzky. Mario had some great years but never dominated like Wayne. If you're going to use the injury excuse, then I'd still rank Bobby Orr ahead of Lemieux.

Wayne Gretzky is in a league of his own. His dominance of the record book is amazing.
 
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TheExecutive

Member
Gretzky is the single greatest dominant athlete of a sport in history. If someone beats his records it won't be anyone that is playing the sport professionally today and I have my doubts about anyone ever beating some of his records and I don't say that lightly.
 
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Kabuki Waq

Member
Lemuiex was in a league of his own. The year he took time off for hodgkins he still won the scoring title with 160 ......wtf is that.


Only Kadri will come close.
 
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Coins

Banned
Fucking goalie pads are the only thing holding back absolutely huge scores in todays NHL. Compare goalie equipment from 1988 to today.

Edit: omg Lemieux was a better player than Gretzky who was surrounded by an entire wing of the hockey hall of fame. The motherfucker had cancer and dominated.
 
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Kabuki Waq

Member
TheExecutive said:
Gretzky is the single greatest dominant athlete of a sport in history. If someone beats his records it won't be anyone that is playing the sport professionally today and I have my doubts about anyone ever beating some of his records and I don't say that lightly.
Click to expand...


He had a lot of nba level protection in his early years while Mario was in a more defensive era.
 
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TheExecutive

Member
entrement said:
Gretzky leads in points with if you just count assists alone.

Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
I encourage people to look at the record books and Gretzky's dominance is scary. Also, if you compare to the players of that era it was complete and utter dominance and there were some of the greatest players in history during Gretzky's tenure and he DWARFS them.
 
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mdubs

Banned
TheExecutive said:
I encourage people to look at the record books and Gretzky's dominance is scary. Also, if you compare to the players of that era it was complete and utter dominance and there were some of the greatest players in history during Gretzky's tenure and he DWARFS them.
Click to expand...

Yup, Gretzky is far and away the best player of all name, it's ridiculous how much better he was than everyone else. Only one who even is in the same ballpark is Bobby if he had stayed healthy.

Brett Hull had 86 goals in 90-91 if anyone is keeping track, that was pretty impressive.
 
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TheExecutive

Member
Kabuki Waq said:
He had a lot of nba level protection in his early years while Mario was in a more defensive era.
Click to expand...
Let me be clear- When we start talking about Lemieux and Gretzky we start to blur the lines but I still think, and all the data points to it, that Gretzky was just in a league of his own.


No one in the current NHL a will come close.
 
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krae_man

Member
TheExecutive said:
Let me be clear- When we start talking about Lemieux and Gretzky we start to blur the lines but I still think, and all the data points to it, that Gretzky was just in a league of his own.


No one in the current NHL a will come close.
Click to expand...

Jagr is still in the NHL and I would call him "Close". Well as close as possible anyway.

If it weren't for lockouts and playing 3 years in Russa for some reason, Jagr would have passed 2000 points.
 
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djblue89

Member
We will get players who get 160 points when the goalies go back to 3.0GAA and below .890 SV%

I mean the majorities of the goalies back then were not in the same league as the guys we have now.

Also, if you look at the style of play, the NHL today is more of a defensive oriented game, the best example was a team like Phoenix who can make the playoffs by being a low scoring team and playing well defensively.
 
C

Coins

Banned
djblue89 said:
We will get players who get 160 points when the goalies go back to 3.0GAA and below .890 SV%

I mean the majorities of the goalies back then were not in the same league as the guys we have now.

Also, if you look at the style of play, the NHL today is more of a defensive oriented game, the best example was a team like Phoenix who can make the playoffs by being a low scoring team and playing well defensively.
Click to expand...

The goalies were just as good back then. Their equipment has made the difference.


Heres what Wayne and Mario got to shoot at.
tumblr_lnouh3cpSZ1qi11sqo1_500.jpg

aapl023.jpg


Heres where it started heading.
roy5.jpg


And what we have today.
Jonathan-Quickreadystance.jpg
 
E

Epsilon-delta

Banned
Mankind will be extinct before anyone breaks some of the records Gretzky set. He didn't choose to be born in that era, so he did the best that he can during that time. He crushed the competition, while setting unbelievable records in the process.

What more can you ask from an athlete?
 
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purg3

slept with Malkin
No one will ever break Gretzky's points records, but I think Mario was the best to ever play the game (offensively). Skill, size, vision, hands, hockey smarts; the guy had it all. It's a shame his health problems limited him, otherwise he could have had a shot at a lot of Gretzky's records. I'm glad I got to see him win 2 cups though and witness some of that on ice magic. Truly one of a kind.

Also if speaking on purely offensive merits, I would actually give a nod to Jagr. Dude was kind of clown in his early days after leaving the pens, but he could put up some crazy numbers. Also the guy is an ageless wonder, and is still slowly climbing the total points board. Kind of crazy how at his age now, he still has a damn good shot and hands.
 
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PastorOfMuppets

Banned
Goalies were nowhere nearly as good back in the day as they are now. The change in goaltending from the 1980's to even the 90's is miles apart.

The butterfly/profly style is nearly ubiquitous in the NHL now whereas during the 80's goalies still played a vastly inferior standup style. Another thing of note is that many goalie pads in the 80's were made of leather. Leather soaks up water as the game goes on and significantly weighs you down and limits your movement so there was legitimate reason for not adapting the modern style of goaltending. That combined with the better defensive schemes of the modern NHL means we will never see another era of offensive play like the 80's ever again.

Also, you guys saying Lemieux was not even close to Gretzky did not watch hockey in the 90's. There are valid reasons to say one or the other as who is the better player but there is no real reason to say one was clearly better than the other. People who often point to Gretzky's dominance in the stats forget that Lemeiux played injured most of his career. Fuck, the dude went through chemotherapy one season and came back in the middle of it to win the scoring title. Gretzky has the statistical dominance based on sheer volume of games he was able to play. Lemieux however actually matches him at the rate of which they scored points. He exceeds him if you only include his career up until his first retirement.
 
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