PackAPunchedMick
Member
How so?
The NHS is crippled.
We literally need a quick fix that has long term positive effects.
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NHS cuts 'planned across England'
- Thread starter Tak3n
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How so?
The NHS is crippled.
We literally need a quick fix that has long term positive effects.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
The only positive thing to come out of Brexit is that nobody can blame the EU for everything anymore, and wake up to reality.
Would you do the same for people who get colon cancer because they don't eat enough fibre?
TsunamiOfSwagger
Member
I can't understand how cuts can be made to frontline services in the NHS. Plenty of waste in the trust side of things though.
CyclopsRock
Member
Naw. We get threads like this all the time, especially here on GAF where, when it comes to public spending, half the users consider themselves socialists to whom spending for the sake of spending is great. "Government cuts spending" is always, always, always met with reams and reams of negative posts, with hardly anyone actually engaging with the issue but rather slipping smoothly into drive and hitting the accelerator. Unless it's the military, obviously, then it's brilliant.
The problem is that it's just so... dumb. Note, I'm not saying people need to be happy with what's going on by the way, it's just that no thought goes into it. "What's that? Some people will have to travel further to a maternity unit? Boo, fucking Tories!" So why? If it's so obviously bad, why? I mean, the actual spending on healthcare in the UK isn't going down (which makes all the comments about this being some false flag ploy to justify privatising the NHS in a few years all the more laughable and without any evidence). In fact, it's continuously gone up, which has then caused an even larger impact on other government departments. Where's the commentary on that? Where are the people engaging with the idea that, actually, we don't have infinite money and that maybe shutting down a maternity ward in one place means they can improve facilities in another place? Or that it's the cost of keeping fuel duty lower for people who have no choice but to buy petrol? Or to maintain our 0.7% of GDP quota on foreign aid?
No one engages with why this happens? They see it's a thread about the Tories, drop in, trot out the usual lines, post photos of Farage despite him not being in government or even in the same party, talk about Brexit, and go off on their way. And they treat it like it's all so simple. That's why I was being sarcastic just there - because the solution is always "Hey, more money" and there's never a second's consideration for why this might be happening. I think that's why GAF got such a hard slap in May 5th last year.
Edit: Cigarettes and Alcohol collect far, far more revenue than they cost the NHS. It's hard to justify that cost if you're also not going to provide them with their, ahem, universal health care.
Frozenprince
Banned
You're advocating, in essence, leaving large swathes of people to be left to die for factors you use a moral advocacy for.
You don't get to pick and choose who lives or dies, that's against the essence of standardized care itself.
It's going to be "the EU holding us hostage because they're angry we left" and "EU bureaucracy stopping us from getting the trade deals we rightfully deserve" instead.
The first rule about the right-wing and Tories, is that it is NEVER the fault of the right-wing or Tories.
It makes sense. Don't have to pay those foreigners anymore.
You should also exclude fat people, people who play videogames instead of doing sports because they aren't keeping healthy, people that eat known cancer-causing foods like meat, people that don't eat meat and thus have iron shortages, ... We could revolutionize medicine.
The NHS is only crippled because someone beats its knees with a bat every time it tries to get up after a beating. There is literally no reason for it to be crippled.
You should also exclude fat people, people who play videogames instead of doing sports because they aren't keeping healthy, people that eat known cancer-causing foods like meat, people that don't eat meat and thus have iron shortages, ... We could revolutionize medicine.
The NHS is only crippled because someone beats its knees with a bat every time it tries to get up after a beating. There is literally no reason for it to be crippled.
Cosmic Schwung
Member
Where do you stop with this line of thought? What about people who don't exercise enough, or don't eat well?
Anyway, there's no way the government would do what you're proposing as the tax on tobacco and alcohol brings in far more than is spent to treat people suffering from issues brought on by them.
Your complete misunderstanding of how health services and social services work together is not only laughable but entirely repulsive. You may just be misguided,but I sense a willing ignorance of the matter
Isn't this a coming reality for most of "the west". We quit having kids in the volume most of our social plans were established under and the elderly are living longer and longer while no longer working. Something has to change.. either higher taxes or less social services.
Chinese Cartoons
Banned
Pensions*
PackAPunchedMick
Member
I don't smoke, drink or take drugs. Hazard a guess at how many times I've visited my local GP or A&E in the last 20 years.
What is your stance on the US health service? Dont have insurance? Goodbye.
My "proposal" isn't half as "repulsive" as their means of survival.
Is this the deliberate squeeze, people hate it, turn against the NHS, government waves through the private solution, well it might better the public reluctantly say, government laugh as their plan works to kneecap the NHS and roll out privatised options?
If people say we should healthier, what did the government do about bad food being advertised to kids, oh that's right, they watered it down for their corporate buddies.
If people say we should healthier, what did the government do about bad food being advertised to kids, oh that's right, they watered it down for their corporate buddies.
I keep posting about this but no-one really wants to listen.
The government has not cut NHs funding. the government has increased NHS funding. If you want to attack a party that has cut health funding, then the SNP are your target of choice. They actually have reduced NHS funding in their budget.
The problem isn't budget cuts, its the fact that the cost of healthcare is rising far faster than the annual increases the government is providing each year. These units are being shut because of rising costs, not cuts in budgets. Now, I personally believe we can and should be spending a vast amount more on healthcare to bring us inline with the OECD average, but the current crisis is not being caused by cuts.
I do also think that at some point we have to realise that shutting a hospital is not automatically the wrong decision. I know that sounds terrible, and it often is, but sometimes actually closing units is the correct thing. Be it because of demand levels, because of location, or whatever, sometimes a unit has to be shut.
PdotMichael
Banned
Only that the productivity of a single worker is so much higher than 30 years ago. Less people are capable of providing health and social services for more people, that's the reality of "the west".
SlipperyFishes
Banned
I've never smoked, taken drugs and barely touched alcohol in the last 12 years (and barely before that) and I've been to the doctors for ailments more than I'd like, especially for mental health related reasons. So excuse me while I glance to you on your ivory tower and say get over yourself. I love the NHS.
I work in healthcare IT so while I'm not a care provider I do see the effects of prolonged elderly care - and it's costly. My network has had to focus more on homecare and remote access to records and doctors because of it. So I think if there's a problem with allocation of funding, perhaps more should be directed towards elder care and less towards other things, rather than slashing costs across the board.
I am in the US so I am not aware of the challenges faced in the UK, but as an outside observer, this all sounds like a bad idea.
If you're not trolling, then I genuinely think you're scum. Actual human pond flora. The NHS was built so that EVERYONE in this country has access to the help they need, when they need it. Using your morally-corrupt way of looking at it I could just easily say black people should be exempt from care, 'then watch the NHS flourish'.
What a disgusting, absurd opinion to hold and what a fundamental misunderstanding of how universal healthcare should operate. At the risk of sounding trite, you should be fucking ashamed of yourself.
B-B-Bomba!
Member
On the plus side, at least it doesn't sound like this is all being rushed through ...
:-/
:-/
It's an absurd misdirection because the Tories aren't serious about increasing spending on anything. We can have a discussion about prioritising spending only after they pledge to give the NHS the money it actually needs rather than a marginal increase and then demand that they make 'efficiency savings' to recoup the rest.
New Labour managed this, after years of being told that there isn't enough money for the NHS and that it would have to make do. And LO AND BEHOLD, the improvement in NHS outcomes was immediate and huge. How did they do it if it's LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to give the NHS any more? It certainly wasn't by driving the economy into the groundwe have the deregulated financial sector to thank for that (another piece of brilliant Tory economic ideology, bravo to the only 'economically literate' party).
So yes, misdirection, because the issue isn't and has never been distribution of finite funds and is completely about the Tory party's continued adherence to an utter failure of an economic programme.
under your proposed system it would function more like the US. Rich alcoholics,smokers, and drug users would still get their healthcare but poor ones wouldn't. so you're basically setting up a system that says fuck the poor.
And you have probably visited the gp as much as I have done,yet I've drank,smoked weed,and taken many drugs in my life. I also work in the nhs,what have you done for the service?
Yes, I do understand that, but your post reeks of shifting the blame.
PdotMichael
Banned
So I guess you are okay if people ignore you after a car accident because you are to blame for it?
Chinese Cartoons
Banned
I live in london and see rheumatologist every six months and each time it is someone new same with my gps my quality of care has been garbage and will be garbage.
You somehow made it worse. What. The. Fuck
Why stop there though? Surely overeating shouldn't be covered, right? All those fucking degenerates with obesity and diabetes - feed em to wolves I say! And those losers with depression? Get a real fucking disease you self-absorbed twats, no one cares that you're sad all the time!
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Do we conveniently sidestep Jeremy Hunt trying to inflate costs to an absolutely impossible point with his "7 Day NHS" insanity? Which now seems even more of a vector to kill the service off with speed?
You can no longer ignore the damage the Conservative party has done to this country over the last 6 years or sidestep their actions with mental gymnastics. This is the reality Tory governance has wrought and no "Labour shoulda stopped them" mewling makes sense when you actively supported the side that perpetrated all of this.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
That would be accidental. Drinking, smoking and doing drugs is an intentional means of self harm.
Why should the tax payer fund such acts when the money could be better spent on people with illnesses/injuries of which they had no way of avoiding?
It's terrible, but if a person doesn't have insurance here they can go to an "emergency room" (or ER). Our applicable departments may chase them for the money, but eventually we eat the costs - typically with some state and federal subsidization. My network alone sets aside about $5 million annually for these costs - though things have gotten much better with the ACA (or "Obamacare").
The real problem we face here is when the affliction is something that can't be handled by the ER. You know, most of the shit that plagues people with pain their entire lives or slow-burning chronic diseases. You don't have to face those things, and don't give an inch because if you do the conservatives will fight to take another ten miles. That's their end game; they want you all paying ridiculous insurance premiums like us to private entities.
Chinese Cartoons
Banned
This is a good idea comrade as long as baby boomers are not touched.
I was born in the wrong generation I wish I had the privilage of having it all, voting leave and then enjoying my pension.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
i would argue that even getting behind the wheel is inviting harm considering the statistics. If you were to get hurt in a car wreck, you knew the risks going in.
Jezbollah
Member
It's like clockwork with him chirping up like that CR. Ironically, in every single thread like this.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
If I had my way the benefit system would fund a single child. Want more? Empty your pockets.
Chinese Cartoons
Banned
I wont be having children so will you be giving me money each month?
PackAPunchedMick
Member
With the money saved from my NHS plans and the cuts to child benefit I would offer tax rebates to all childless adults 25+.
GeordieMark
Member
How about people who play sports and get hurt? You haven't thought this through mate. Your proposal isn't repulsive, just not very smart.
Chinese Cartoons
Banned
Call pensions benefits and leave it alone since they vote tory
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Because somebody else is getting them and you are not. Are they foreign? Even more reason to cut them then.
Appeals to emotions work too damn well.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
No shit. I was thinking as I was typing. Much like Boris Johnson.
But as a starting point it makes a lot of fucking sense if you ask me.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I wanna see the Excels.
NekoFever
Member
And what about, say, sporting injuries? Even if you don't break a leg or run into a tree while skiing, most people play sports for any length of time will pick up damage that requires treatment just from wear and tear. My brother basically needed his whole knee rebuilt from playing rugby, and he's not even 30. He knew he was playing a physically tough sport but did it anyway.
There are very few maladies that don't have some measure of being self-inflicted, whether it's lifestyle, diet, statistically dangerous actions (e.g. driving), hobbies (e.g. sports), dangers in the workplace, international travel, etc.
This is a great idea. It'd also have the added benefit of slowly killing off large swathes of the poor and unemployed, easing up the amount of benefits being paid out and leaving more money for the rest of us!
Pfft, you want to scrap Trident and then have the NHS overburdened by radiation poisoning victims after the Russian nukes hit?!
Gonna cut funding massively, BUT THEN! Once the golden Brexit comes they will fund it again almost to the level as before, BAM more funding for NHS.
Nailed it.
Except they wont.
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