NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
Wait, was that said in the Zelda thread?
I haven't played the new one, but Zelda games? Really?
I enjoy them, but I wouldn't call the deep by any means.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Eh. It goes a lot deeper with it then most other games, but the Soulreaver series, Metal Gear series, Spec Ops: The Line, Deus Ex, Silent Hill 2 and 3, and Ico all have it in equal or greater values.
Stamps, Robot Dojo and the deserters.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Stamps had the Shakespeare play
No, like, there's a lot of Zelda threads right now treating things as innovative that actually aren't, and people were joking about similar Nier threads and analysis, so like, you know, I put them together.
Ok, it wasn't a great joke.
for some reason the basement was full of zombie robots.... they never seemed really talk about of it. Even when I went back in route C and the whole park had become zombies it was never brought up in my game, until the attack on pascal.
Really? Those were pretty fun quest but minor in the grand scheme of things, at least the first two. Emil's Memories, Emil's Determination, Amnesia, Treasure Hunt at the Castle, and 11B's Memento all have pretty significant story and/or world-building.
Quest like Find a Present, Data Analysis Freak, and Gathering Keepsakes really adds to the characters and even adds additional dialogue in the main story in some cases.
I mean, the machines do lots of weird things that you'd really only expect humans to do.
I would guess that the main thing driving "the machines are behind YoRHa" - certainly the main reason that I find it a tempting explanation - is just that there's really no sign that this android illuminati exists or has the capabilities ascribed to them, whereas the machines have both the motive and the means. The game basically presents YoRHa as the military arm of the human side in the war, presumably established and given technology by the humans on the moon. They're fighting the machines, who control the surface. There's an android Resistance on the surface but they seem low-tech and ragtag, and their role appears to be mainly limited to supporting YoRHa by doing things like sending them supplies. The only indication that there's a significant non-YoRHa android military faction is the carrier and missiles, and given how long-lasting technology is in this world (there are trucks that seem mostly intact, and even a functioning roller coaster) there are plenty of possible explanations for that (plus of course we know that the Resistance produces rockets). Meanwhile there's evidence that there isn't a significant non-YoRHa android military faction, especially not one concerned about making it seem like there are humans alive on the moon: the machines prepare a surface-to-space launcher with no android opposition other than 9S, A2, and the twins. And of course the timing and effect of the backdoor activation make absolutely no sense if androids are behind it.
So it seems to me that the most plausible explanation other than "the machines did it" is that YoRHa was established hundreds of years ago when there was an android illuminati, which otherwise left no evidence of its existence, and that in the meantime the android illuminati have been at least rendered powerless while the machines gained access to the backdoor independently such that they could activate it on their own timeline. Obviously "secret android illuminati that since died out" has some Occam issues, and it itself seems somewhat hard to explain given the sense we get that this war has been raging for thousands of years. Note that lots of people also seem to get the impression that this may not even be the first YoRHa. There's something about the 14th machine war. At the start of the game we're told that the androids have typically fought the machines from space, via "descents", and I think most players conclude at that point that the industrial capacity for waging this war is coming from the humans on the moon. So... it's sort of weird to suppose that there was an android illuminati running things from behind the scenes, who had survived the whole time, but who apparently only a few hundred years ago decided to try to trick other androids into thinking that humans survived the alien attack four and a half thousand years before.
It also seems worth noting that android memories are apparently malleable. Not that there's much positive evidence for this, but honestly you could put together a plausible headcanon where the machines are basically behind all android society, beating it down and occasionally rebuilding it and implanting false memories cyclically according to the machines' drive to evolve and what we're told is their tendency to get stuck in loops when it comes to everything not combat-related. I think we're explicitly told that the twins have false memories, so they're not even reliable witnesses despite supposedly having been around the whole time.
Edit: I would say that probably the explanation that comes closest to accounting for all of the facts, despite being somewhat convoluted and requiring lots of new entities, is that the first YoRHa was started shortly after the beginning of the war, by android forces on the ground and basically as described in the files. The machines eventually won, perhaps in something like the way they appeared poised to win at the end of the game if not for 9S and A2, and then due to their explicit need to have an enemy to fight essentially recreated YoRHa, emulating the extinct android leadership on the ground. Repeat x12 or whatever.
Dave1988
Member
This has to be the best credit sequence ever created, right? I almost got teary eyed when the chorus kicked in.
Route A & B might not have impressed me much, but Route C and the endings really make up for it and really shine with Taro's quirkiness.
Route A & B might not have impressed me much, but Route C and the endings really make up for it and really shine with Taro's quirkiness.
EDIT: Dang, this was meant to got to the OT. I'm such a dumbass :v
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Hmm, after re-reading the pertinent files you're probably right. Although I think the fundamental programming of both sides should lead long-term to different results given a long enough number of iterations.
The cycle of death and rebirth may be propagated by both sides, but the androids purpose is to love and protect their long-dead creators, whereas the machine's is simply to fight their enemy.
When N2 "splits", the schism is over whether the correct conclusion is to end the war and destroy the androids (presumably by removing their reason to exist i.e, the moon server), or to keep them around so as to provide further evolutionary pressure.
The bottom line is that the Androids are the ones with something to protect, beyond simply fighting the enemy, even if they were unable to bring back the humans in 4200CE, there is still their remnants on the lunar servers - so the potential may exist at some future point.
On the other hand, there is the somewhat depressing realization that the "leaving for the new world" ending isn't the fortuitous evolution of the network consciousness to a stage beyond them needing to fight, just the machine side purging themselves of unneeded pacifist data (an exact analog to the planned destruction of the bunker) in preparation for the next cycle
Oh Yoko...
Amnesia's probably my favorite quest of them all since there's a lot of things you can interpret from it.
Honestly haven't played those games, so I can't really comment. But right, I probably shouldn't have said the first, but the few games that is dripping with it instead. Brainfart.
When you think about it, the title "Automata" isn't really specific in which side it refers to...
Until you realise
It refers
To both
Because they're basically the same
... Granted, this revelation seemed more impressive to me after I'd been awake for 20 hours. I might just be an idiot.
Until you realise
It refers
To both
Because they're basically the same
... Granted, this revelation seemed more impressive to me after I'd been awake for 20 hours. I might just be an idiot.
darkwing-buck
Member
hehe and 2B's weapon story reveals her entire character arc.
Which podcast by chance?
It'd probably have to be set in the future, where the twist is you're the progeny of the Ark sent out pre-E.
An alien planet would be a good way to re-involve that faction, though I don't know what human nature Taro can explore there. Maybe the aliens were well-intentioned and had nowhere to go, and it can be an examination of how humans treat other cultures and refugees.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I think I might have said this already, but I really love how Taro manages to blend optimism and hope into his sometimes comically edgy stories full of tragedy and suffering.
For example, all of his protagonists only succeed because of friendship and noble sacrifice. Even Caim!
For example, all of his protagonists only succeed because of friendship and noble sacrifice. Even Caim!
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hey guys, thinking about deleting the save data. Does that completely reset the game? If so I'll hold off on that until I finish unlocking the weapons and finish all the side quests just to say I did.
Closer Two
Member
Do I have to go searching for side missions or will all of them appear on the map?
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
You keep your cheevos, obviously, and you do get one superficial reward, but other than those things, it's like you just started the game up for the first time. All three save slots are wiped, no more chapter select, no debug room, etc.
As far as I know, they all show up on the map. There are some pseudo-sidequests like the golden machines that don't show up, but I dunno if that actually counts for sidequest completion %.
Dreams-Visions
Member
roger that. I'll do that once I've done everything there is left to do. tyvm.
Nachtfalke
Member
Emils head weapon story is absolutely mindblowing if you look closely to the year mentioned. Seems like an epilogue. Man, so many smaller details to explore in this game. I really love that about Yoko Taro. The depth he put into his stories and characters is amazing.
Abstrusity
Member
It's alright. It happens.
I cried for two hours straight after ending E. Well, no. When the choir set in, I started bawling. What that represents is an abstract ideal; of people, or consciousnesses, as it were, working toward something better, fighting for it. The song was likely written for this conclusion expressly. See, it's not just YOU who wants a good ending, it's everyone. Everyone is there.
Everyone wants something better, and most are willing to fight for it, even if it's meaningless, or 'just a game.' But then, the same is true outside of the game, and if you were in a particularly bad spot (with regards to politics, trusting other people only so far as to realize that they'll fuck everything up if you give them a chance so you might as well not even bother), and you were already deep in thought at the conclusion of the game BEFORE this actual conclusion...
Well, it left a pretty deep impression on me. This entire thing was built for ending E, just to elicit that reaction, I'm betting.
Tetsujin_MK
Member
Finished with endings C D and E yesterday. I keep thinking about this game and reading everyone's reactions.
I never expected a credits minigame to become something so emotional and powerful. ;__;
Once I'm done 100%ing this game, I shall sacrifice my save files as well...
I never expected a credits minigame to become something so emotional and powerful. ;__;
Once I'm done 100%ing this game, I shall sacrifice my save files as well...
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
So the game has a weird amount of Drakengard 1 connections but the one I found the most interesting was the writing on the boxes at the end of the game being referred to as "Angelic" script by Pod.
Angels are the canon name of the Watchers/Grotesqueries from Drakengard 1 and 3, aka the giant babies that eat people, which is somewhat similar to what the rampaging machines do. Wtf do they have to do with Nier beyond Angelus and the Queen Grotesquerie appearing in real world Tokyo and causing the Black Scrawl.
There's also the Cult of the Watchers logo on Eve's chest and the Red Girls at the end of the game being obvious in their likeness to Manah (appearance, voice is a mix of a deep male voice and young girl, in the hacking sequence she appears in massive size)
Angels are the canon name of the Watchers/Grotesqueries from Drakengard 1 and 3, aka the giant babies that eat people, which is somewhat similar to what the rampaging machines do. Wtf do they have to do with Nier beyond Angelus and the Queen Grotesquerie appearing in real world Tokyo and causing the Black Scrawl.
There's also the Cult of the Watchers logo on Eve's chest and the Red Girls at the end of the game being obvious in their likeness to Manah (appearance, voice is a mix of a deep male voice and young girl, in the hacking sequence she appears in massive size)
With time travel, anything fits!
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Well, everything "started" when a modern day city appeared over night on the Iberian Peninsula in AD856 in an event known as the Cataclysm - this is the point where Drakengard's history split from our own. So there is some multi-dimensional time loop shenanigans going on.
My first thought, like Clear earlier on the page, was that the Ark from ending D is what caused the Cataclysm, closing the loop, but there are a few problems with that. Namely, I thought it was implied that the Cataclysm was the result of a failed attempt to rid the world of either Maso or the Flower, which doesn't jive with the machines just deciding to peace out.
Edit: or what Jiraiza said.
Poor robot.
Man, imagine falling for someone that just does not give a fuck about you, and never will give a fuck about you. Brutal.
Demoskinos
Member
Jean-Paul is like... the biggest asshole in the game.
Via Purifico
Banned
Seriously, 9S is a racist little shit but at least he's likable and sympathetic to a degree but fucking Jean-Paul is detestable.
darkwing-buck
Member
What did the names on the towers mean? i.e Soul Box, Meat Box, etc....
It's pretty cool how I spent a lot of the early C route being really distrustful and generally hateful of Popola and Devola whenever I saw them for what they did in first game, only for their story to throw it back at my face with a great impact. I was literally one of the people who scorned them just for being the same model. I felt like shit... feelsbadman.
I KNOW, I felt like such a dick once the truth was revealed.
Though to be fair, that sidequest I did for them did not do them any favors with the ominous music that played upon completion...
EDIT: Ah who am I kidding, that's a dumb excuse.
Just completed A-E and have a ton of questions.
1. So how the hell did the machines create Adam and Eve?
2. Were Adam and Eve machines or androids?
3. Are machines and androids one in the same?
4. I get that project Yorha is a lie to keep the truth that humans are extinct, but who is running project yorha?
5. Who are the aliens that created the machines?
6. I never played the original Nier but was Devola and Pepola supposed to guard something that could end the world and failed?
7. What were the commanders motivations for keeping the lie going?
8. So this whole time, 2B was continually killing 9S if he got to close to the truth. So did 2B know the truth? Did she ever wonder why she was forced to kill 2B?
1. So how the hell did the machines create Adam and Eve?
2. Were Adam and Eve machines or androids?
3. Are machines and androids one in the same?
4. I get that project Yorha is a lie to keep the truth that humans are extinct, but who is running project yorha?
5. Who are the aliens that created the machines?
6. I never played the original Nier but was Devola and Pepola supposed to guard something that could end the world and failed?
7. What were the commanders motivations for keeping the lie going?
8. So this whole time, 2B was continually killing 9S if he got to close to the truth. So did 2B know the truth? Did she ever wonder why she was forced to kill 2B?
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
It kind of sucks to be Sartre, though. He is surrounded by obsessive fans who continue to pine for his affection and harm themselves even when he makes it clear in no uncertain terms that he doesn't give a shit. It's not even like they don't know, because you tell them explicitly what Sartre thinks of their heartfelt gifts, and that just makes them love him more.
It's not like he's leading them on or playing with their feelings.
Imagine that in the process of going about your daily life, people spontaneously started eating human flesh to get your attention, and instead of questioning why those people would do such a thing, everyone just called you an evil scumbag. That would kind of suck.
I wonder if Amnesia should have been a 'main quest'? It seems way more important to the plot than basically anything else. I did it after beating the game, so the whole big reveal of 2B being 2 E type was a bit confusing in the moment. Felt like if I did that sidequest earlier, things would have clicked better.
https://slinkfm.com/
https://slinkfm.com/
Hexxen-Panda
Member
Finished Route C today, and I think I'm gonna have an aneurysm. I'm still trying to make sense of how the events of C fits into the bigger picture of the world.
Fucking Pascal. I'm still not entirely sure why that attack happened, but it still hit me like a train.
Those robots on the resource unit with the buckets and their big brother. What's the connection with the bots from B and C openings?
Seeing the adorable and charming robots go mad or severely depressed was tough.
Fucking Pascal. I'm still not entirely sure why that attack happened, but it still hit me like a train.
Those robots on the resource unit with the buckets and their big brother. What's the connection with the bots from B and C openings?
Seeing the adorable and charming robots go mad or severely depressed was tough.
1. Not sure...
2. Machines
3. I mean, yes and no? Yes in that machine cores were used to help build androids, and that they're all both fighting this pointless war, and they're both self-sabotaging themselves. But machines and androids are still separate groups.
4. Androids are. We don't know which specific androids, or if they're still alive, but at the very least, Project YoRHa was not a plan developed by the machines.
5. No one knows...
6. They were supposed to observe the Replicants. They let Nier from the first game basically fuck everything up, so humanity completely went extinct. Their failure led to scorn (essentially racism) against the other Devola and Popola models, so that's why the ones from this game are hated, programmed to feel eternal guilt, etc.
7. If the androids learned that humans were extinct, they would lose morale. Their entire existence is to fight the machines and ultimately provide a way for humans to come back to earth. If humans don't exist anymore, then what's the point of doing anything? And if they feel like that, then that affects the war effort, and they'd inevitably lose. So they're in a situation where they never win, but they can't afford to lose either.
8. I don't believe 2B knew that humans were extinct, or at least she definitely didn't know the true purpose of Project YoRHa. I think she just followed orders faithfully. And I think you mean 9S. Of course she wonders about it, and more or less curses her role and existence. Remember her opening line of how she wants to kill god if given the chance
1. Adam and Eve are another Machine offshoot attempt to evolve, like Pascal
2. They were Machines molded after human
3. No but Yorha specifically has machines core because they didnt want to give guinee pigs normal AI.
4. Other Androids, anyone who tells you Machines/The Terminal is wrong and you can safely ignore them.
5. Just Aliens, like Adam said they were basically plants, there not relevant as anything other then the machines creators.
6. In the original Nier D and P royally fucked up there plan to save humanity and instead doomed them to extinction.
7. Commander believed the androids needed something to fight for, she didn't no Yorha was built to eventually be destroyed
8. She was an E model made to make sure 9S never got to close to the truth, like the commander she didn't know Yorha was doomed.
Good point...
Maybe. Might have made things too obvious though.
Finish Route D and E if you haven't yet.
darkwing-buck
Member
Route C in a nutshell.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Route C in a nutshell.
Yeah I got EoE vibes from 2B choking out 9S and Emil head half sticking out of the sand