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Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's dge |OT| I guess that's what it means to be a ninja

Joystick just posted a glowing review.

I admit from what I've played I've already felt its wayyyy better then the other version. Just feels more refined. They give you more weapons, leveling up. The combat is bloody and fun. Difficulty feels just about right. I have to get further to see how if goes. In the original NG3 I got 3 level in and couldn't take it anymore!
 
What controller are people using? Is the gamepad the best, or does the pro controller work better for this?

I am using the pro controller. I hate the stick placement about the face buttons and I really hate that they switched the buttons from the 360 controller, but once you get used to it it works well enough.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
What? In NG1 you could hit block right as an enemy attacked and the screen would flash blue and it would allow you a free attack. Not there is a move that work basically the same way. You hit block plus attack in time with the enemies attack, and it does a blue teleport that takes you behind the enemy and allows you to get a free hit on them. Out side of being slightly more difficult to pull of I am not sure what the difference is. Mechanically it seems to do the same thing. I have no idea how to reply to the 2nd part about being overly enthusiastic since I have no idea what the proper amount of enthusiasm for a video game, but I am enjoying this version a lot more then I did the original release. I havent even put in zombieU yet since I have been playing this so much.

What you are talking about sounds like a counterattack, which has been in every single ninja gaiden game including vanilla NG3. You hit block and an attack, the screen flickers, and you get a free attack out of blockstun.

Intercept is way different. The way intercept works is it that it basically gives you "armor" except you don't take damage. You absorb the enemy's hit without taking any blocktstun or doing anything and you can continue whatever you were doing. Intercept was only available in NG1 and that was after a dlc patch at that. It was taken out of NGB because some people thought it was "broken" (bullshit it was awesome). Think of it as a parry.

That's why you saw someone freak out when they heard you say intercept was in this game. It's a big fucking deal because if you are good enough you can lay waste to just about anything without taking damage or even blocking. Someone posted a video of a guy going HAM on Doku earlier and you can see the guy just super aggressively wailing on Doku while barely getting hit.

EDIT: Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pdN3I1lMn0

The move in NG3RE you are referring to is indeed the Cicada surge. It's a counterattack that teleports you behind the enemy instead. In essence it's like an upgraded counterattack because you don't go into a canned animation anymore. You get the freedom to attack whoever you want instead of just counterattacking the enemy next to you. It could be very useful on the harder difficulties where for example you are getting smashed into blockstun left and right and you just want to GTFO and attack a mage about to do a fire pit.
 
What you are talking about sounds like a counterattack, which has been in every single ninja gaiden game including vanilla NG3. You hit block and an attack, and you get a free attack out of blockstun.

Intercept is way different. The way intercept works is it that it basically gives you "armor" except you don't take damage. You absorb the enemy's hit without taking any hitstun or doing anything and you can continue whatever you were doing. Intercept was only available in NG1 and that was after a dlc patch at that. It was taken out of NGB because some people thought it was "broken" (bullshit it was awesome).

That's why you saw someone freak out when they heard you say intercept was in this game. It's a big fucking deal.

Sorry if I used the wrong term for it, it is confusing because there is a regular counter attack in the game. You hit block when an enemy attacks and you can stun them and then combo them. There is a 2nd move, called subaki I believe, which is the one you do by hitting block and attack as you are being attacked. That move lets you get a free hit on the enemy, without you being paused at all, that is why I thought it worked like intercept. I really dont remember there being a move like that in NG2, which is odd since I played so much of that game on both 360 and PS3. I will be more careful though when discussing moves in the future.
 
Yeah I hadnt seen it in the core game but I didnt get to into it. It feels like there was maybe more depth to NG3 then people realized, just team ninja did such a terrible job showing that stuff to people. I like how in this game it really spells out the different moves when you unlock them. So I have been going through and doing the challenges and they are really well done. It is 3 waves of increasingly difficult enemies and then a fight against a boss. The bosses basically fight like they did in the old games. It was interesting fighting a boss from NG2 in the slower NG3 style. I really hope this game does well and they do DLC like this in the future. Since you get your health back after each battle this game would be perfect for a boss rush mode.

Edit: The move I was talking about is not called Cicada surge, I believe it is called Subaki or something close to that. I will look it up when I get home today.

While I have been harsh in my criticism of the game, i have always maintained that at base, it was still a NG title. there is plenty fun to be had with the combat even in base NG3.

If Im honest, i don't even get the complaints about the wave upon wave of enemies. If the combat was allwoed to be more fun by removing the the cheap grabs, refined SOB (i dont think its a bad addition in of itself, it was its randomness that was the problem) and improved the A.I, nobody would complain about wave after wave after wave of eniemes. Challenge rooms in NGB and the tests of valor in NG2 are amazing fun and are the same thing.

I think the new mages are probably the best thing to come out of NG3, but id like to see what they would be without the cheapness of their grabs.

I really hope hayashi has learnt his lesson for the next title in the series. There are some harsh lessons to be made here, but I think that the DMC2-DMC3 jump can happen in NG.
 

VerTiGo

Banned
Certainly doesn't sound like it. It also sounds like he's playing on hero.
Honestly if this has any frame rate issues whatsoever at the lower difficulties, it's gonna be an absolute mess on master ninja and above. Just like the original.

Not playing on Hero malaka. I played the original Xbox version and Sigma. Never touched NG2.

NEOGAF = Where everybody bitches about games they don't play or ever will play.
 

Kevtones

Member
There might be something wrong with me because I'm really enjoying this game. The combat is pretty tight now and it's super satisfying with its ridiculous gore. Also feel like I'm 'getting better'.

Also the kunai climbing is a zillion times less annoying than RE6 climbing.


Really glad I bought it.
 

Hiltz

Member
Destructoid was very harsh in its review of Razor's Edge. Jim Sterling - who did the original version's review - only gave the Wii U version a mere .5 upgrade in its review score. In your guys opinion, was he off his rocker or what ? Score was 5.5 out of 10.
 

guek

Banned
Destructoid was very harsh in its review of Razor's Edge. Jim Sterling - who did the original version's review - only gave the Wii U version a mere .5 upgrade in its review score. In your guys opinion, was he off his rocker or what ? Score was 5.5 out of 10.

Well joystiq gave it a 4/5. The consensus seems to be that it's a significantly improved version. Whether or not NG3 was beyond repair is another question altogether. Miiverse seems to be very positive about the game at least. I think I'm just going to take the plunge and buy it. Sorry Namco :-( TTT2 will have to wait
 

japtor

Member
Destructoid was very harsh in its review of Razor's Edge. Jim Sterling - who did the original version's review - only gave the Wii U version a mere .5 upgrade in its review score. In your guys opinion, was he off his rocker or what ? Score was 5.5 out of 10.
Keep this in mind with the numbers, seems like it'd be a 6-7 going by most other sites‘ scales:
http://www.destructoid.com/the-official-destructoid-review-guide-2011-203909.phtml
(Also people can have wildly different opinions and all that stuff, god knows I can't agree with his Vanquish review)

From what I remember in his review it sounded like overall the changes were a net positive, he felt like they either didn't address some of the core issues (seems like most agree on that), or felt like some of the changes were actually for the worse, opinion seems to be split on that one in particular. I remember a poster/reviewer saying something similar earlier in the thread, but there's also been others praising the changes, sounds like it's something that'll just differ with each player.
Well joystiq gave it a 4/5. The consensus seems to be that it's a significantly improved version. Whether or not NG3 was beyond repair is another question altogether. Miiverse seems to be very positive about the game at least. I think I'm just going to take the plunge and buy it. Sorry Namco :-( TTT2 will have to wait
Got anything else you want to buy? Toys R Us has a buy 1 get 40% off 2nd Wii U game deal right now, could get whichever additional game for ~$36 rather than $60 that way.
 

Riposte

Member
Destructoid was very harsh in its review of Razor's Edge. Jim Sterling - who did the original version's review - only gave the Wii U version a mere .5 upgrade in its review score. In your guys opinion, was he off his rocker or what ? Score was 5.5 out of 10.

Jim Sterling is probably one of the worst reviewers. People must be careful not to amend that when he happens to agree with them.
 
EDIT: Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pdN3I1lMn0

The move in NG3RE you are referring to is indeed the Cicada surge. It's a counterattack that teleports you behind the enemy instead. In essence it's like an upgraded counterattack because you don't go into a canned animation anymore. You get the freedom to attack whoever you want instead of just counterattacking the enemy next to you. It could be very useful on the harder difficulties where for example you are getting smashed into blockstun left and right and you just want to GTFO and attack a mage about to do a fire pit.

So I just checked and the move I am talking about is definitely not the Cicada surge. If you open the ninja skills menu cicada surge is the 4th move down on the list. The description says you do it by pressing block and B at the same time. I do not have that move unlocked. The move I am talking about is the top most move in that column. It is called subaki and the description says it is a parry that can be done by pressing block and either X or Y when an enemy attacks.
 

guek

Banned
Got anything else you want to buy? Toys R Us has a buy 1 get 40% off 2nd Wii U game deal right now, could get whichever additional game for ~$36 rather than $60 that way.

Man I've already bought six games. D:

I don't have time for all these games! Why did I buy AC3? Ugh.

Well, I've put in a few hours into NG3 and I can safely say...it's playable. I'm having fun slicing my way through ninjas and thugs. There is occasional slow down but usually it's so subtle that I don't even notice. But it does happen semi-regularly, so it might bother some people more than others. I gotta say though, when it does manage to run at 60fps, it's pretty gorgeous. Aside from framerate drops, the only other visual hiccup is the lack of AA. It's really jarringly evident some times.

All in all though, I would say it's a perfectly fine from a graphical standpoint. It still looks pretty good, overall, and none of these hitches are getting in the way of me enjoying the game. It's fun! But it's also a bit mindless. Boss challenges feel less about skill and more about endurance. I've had to switch to easy a couple time to get through specific encounters, but I don't terribly mind. I say it's worth buying for anyone who has been on the fence. I wouldn't fault anyone for waiting till it dropped down a few bucks. If I weren't on a launch high, I probably wouldn't have picked it up full price. Buying games digitally is so friggin easy on this thing though :-(
 

ultim8p00

Banned
Man I've already bought six games. D:

I don't have time for all these games! Why did I buy AC3? Ugh.

Well, I've put in a few hours into NG3 and I can safely say...it's playable. I'm having fun slicing my way through ninjas and thugs. There is occasional slow down but usually it's so subtle that I don't even notice. But it does happen semi-regularly, so it might bother some people more than others. I gotta say though, when it does manage to run at 60fps, it's pretty gorgeous. Aside from framerate drops, the only other visual hiccup is the lack of AA. It's really jarringly evident some times.

All in all though, I would say it's a perfectly fine from a graphical standpoint. It still looks pretty good, overall, and none of these hitches are getting in the way of me enjoying the game. It's fun! But it's also a bit mindless. Boss challenges feel less about skill and more about endurance. I've had to switch to easy a couple time to get through specific encounters, but I don't terribly mind. I say it's worth buying for anyone who has been on the fence. I wouldn't fault anyone for waiting till it dropped down a few bucks. If I weren't on a launch high, I probably wouldn't have picked it up full price. Buying games digitally is so friggin easy on this thing though :-(

Or just wait until it gets a re-release on the twin consoles. Hayashi basically confirmed a Sigma version is being planned.
 
Or just wait until it gets a re-release on the twin consoles. Hayashi basically confirmed a Sigma version is being planned.
This basically is the Sigma version. I also wouldn't bet on 3RE content getting backported to the other consoles, Hiyashi made similar comments about wanting to do the same for 2S on 360 (going so far to even call it "NG2 Black") and it never happened.
 

guek

Banned
Or just wait until it gets a re-release on the twin consoles. Hayashi basically confirmed a Sigma version is being planned.

I think it's pretty unclear at the moment. He said they were looking into their options, but if Nintendo helped work on RE, I doubt that content will make it to other consoles.

Btw, the framerate drops seem to be directly correlated with rocketmen and dogs. I've gotten to the point where I just see them as enemy abilities and I make sure to target them the second they show up:p Any time there are 3 or more rocketment, I get some noticeable slow down. Same with the dogs but only once they start jumping. Otherwise, it's not very noticeable.

I also have to say that despite the story being a mess and combat feeling fairly repetitive, this is in no way a bad game. I think some people might be mad paying full price for it, but I think it's a ton of fun. I've already put 10 hrs into it and will probably try replaying it on normal or hard (i generally play on normal but have to occasionally switch to easy for bosses). On a 5pt. scale, I'd give it a solid 3. I'll probably end up writing a review for it for NES :p
 

ultim8p00

Banned
I think it's pretty unclear at the moment. He said they were looking into their options, but if Nintendo helped work on RE, I doubt that content will make it to other consoles.

Btw, the framerate drops seem to be directly correlated with rocketmen and dogs. I've gotten to the point where I just see them as enemy abilities and I make sure to target them the second they show up:p Any time there are 3 or more rocketment, I get some noticeable slow down. Same with the dogs but only once they start jumping. Otherwise, it's not very noticeable.

I also have to say that despite the story being a mess and combat feeling fairly repetitive, this is in no way a bad game. I think some people might be mad paying full price for it, but I think it's a ton of fun. I've already put 10 hrs into it and will probably try replaying it on normal or hard (i generally play on normal but have to occasionally switch to easy for bosses). On a 5pt. scale, I'd give it a solid 3. I'll probably end up writing a review for it for NES :p

We said the same thing about Ninja Gaiden II when MS was funding it. It's going to happen. Bookmark this post. I'm not falling for this shit again.
 

guek

Banned
yeah i'm moving my opinion from "good" to "great."

not quite "amazing" but pretty damn fun. i dunno, maybe i have low standards, but the game fulfills a certain itch i've had for mindless hack and slashes that actually require a fair bit of skill. the difficulty is brutal but I (and many other it seems judging by miiverse) are really enjoying the challenge. Playing on the pad is growing on me too. It seems to hide the lack of AA incredibly well.
 
Keep the feedback coming!

How's the framerate? Mostly 60? I can take a few drops, it's not like we aren't used to games with performance issues.

And, did they remove the QTE's from this version?
 
So I have been plying through of a bunch of ninja trials and I have my guy up to level 20 now. It is a lot of fun but I keep looking for people to play with and I havent seen a single person online yet. My NNID is yankeeh8er, shoot me a message if anyone wants to do some of the trials together.
 
Keep the feedback coming!

How's the framerate? Mostly 60? I can take a few drops, it's not like we aren't used to games with performance issues.

And, did they remove the QTE's from this version?
After heaping heavy praise on the game in the Sigma 3 rumor thread I ran into some heavy and inexplicable slowdown at the very end of the second day.

The game doesn't seem to be locked into any frame rate as far as I can tell but that was the only noticeable dip I experienced so far. The game has been very challenging and fun though. The QTEs are nowhere nearly as annoying as the Bayo QTEs and story hasn't gotten awful yet but I've heard bad things.

The game needs patching but it's very playable in its current state.
 

Skilletor

Member
Got it and played for about 10 minutes...

I already feel like I shouldn't have bought it. The framerate drop on the first wave of enemies (on normal) is really bad.

Haven't played enough to really notice gameplay differences, but it feels the same. Maybe when I unlock some stuff (or weapons...I hate the dragon sword).
 

Effect

Member
Played up to the first boss I believe. The giant robotic spider!? I'm not even going to question the exist of such a thing at this point. Was a pain to beat until I figured out I shouldn't be so quick to cut off the legs completely.

At the point where I'm wondering about something. I've been playing on Normal but should the lower difficulty (Hero) still provide a challenge? Thinking of switching and then going back through the game later on Normal once I know what to expect and become more comfortable with the controls. This is my first Ninja Gaiden game outside of maybe messing with the original game back on the NES as a rental. Didn't die tonight until the robot (came close though) though so perhaps I'm doing okay. Took me a few tries to beat the thing. However died pretty quickly in the wave after that. At that point I decide I was done gaming for the night.

I like what I've played so far. The gamepad seems to be okay at the moment as well but then again I'm used it by now because of ZombiU. It only felt weird when playing NSMBU for the first time but I think I'm getting used to it with that as well.
 
I get slaughtered in this game, and I didn't have this much trouble in the vanilla version. Rockets and death grabs from out of nowhere.
 

Effect

Member
I do wonder why there is even a block button. Been doing a LOT of dodging. Unless you can block and as long as no one is behind you, you can block every attack? There is a counter ability but it looks like there are to many enemies for either to be worthwhile unless it's good for one on one encounters that might appear in the game?
 
I do wonder why there is even a block button. Been doing a LOT of dodging. Unless you can block and as long as no one is behind you, you can block every attack? There is a counter ability but it looks like there are to many enemies for either to be worthwhile unless it's just one on one encounters that might appear in the game?
You can block a standard attack, but heavy attacks will stagger him. Screwed if blocking and someone is behind you. Or if a rocket flies in from off screen from someone who came in during the middle of a battle off camera.
 

Skilletor

Member
Okay, I've played through the first couple of levels.

The framerate is horrible. Unacceptably bad at times. It drops in just about every battle.

The gameplay is very much improved. Counters, Cicada counter thingy, leveling up weapons. They've made battles more comparable to previous NGs. It's no longer just wave after wave of enemies. More groups of battles.

I still feel the controls aren't as responsive. This might be because the framerate is so bad, but another part of it is that some of Ryu's animations are so long. There's a really disconnect between what I'm pressing and what I'm doing on the screen. Part of it is the really long recovery Ryu seems to have on just about anything. Part of it is that, just like with the vanilla version, I can't be sure exactly what is going to come out when I press a button. That last complaint is not really a complaint anymore with the change in the way the SOB mechanic works. I definitely feel like I want to continue playing where, at this point in NG3, I just wanted to quit.

The game is difficult, especially without health potions. I haven't felt that it was unfair at any point, though.

The decap and de-limbing people doesn't really factor in much to the game. Targeting is much better since everybody on the screen remains a threat until they're dead. I hated targeting soldiers that were crawling away in the vanilla version.

I don't feel this will be as good as NG2, but it's a definite improvement so far.

This framerate is really bad though. :/

Oh, and I fucking love off-screen play on the wii-u pad. Me and the family watching Netflix and I'm still able to play my new console. :)

Wii U pad is a bit unwieldy at times when doing things that require multiple buttons (like aiming the arrow), but I'm not having any troubles overall.

I do wonder why there is even a block button. Been doing a LOT of dodging. Unless you can block and as long as no one is behind you, you can block every attack? There is a counter ability but it looks like there are to many enemies for either to be worthwhile unless it's good for one on one encounters that might appear in the game?

Counters are very effective, but he has an animation and recovery to it. You have to time it, but when you do land a counter you teleport and can hit multiple opponents. This game is a lot like NG2. You don't want to be stand still for very long. Choose your moments. Enemies have strings they use. Like the soldiers with the red glowy knives. They have a 3-hit string that will end in something that guard crushes you. Counter the last hit instead (or dash out of the way and hit them during recovery).
 

Seik

Banned
@Skilletor: Yeah the framerate issues in the beginning felt kind of lame to me, but the more you progress, the more the game will grow on you, at least that's what it did to me. Hope you won't regret you investment. :p
 
I'm finding that the framerate issues with the game are consistently happening in outdoor daytime environments. I have no idea what's special about these areas of the game that are putting extra stress on the engine but it's getting very predicatable as I progress through the game.

Framerate dips in the midst of battle when there are tons of enemies and explosions going on are predictable too but that's nothing new for these types of action games although I guess most would hope that next gen consoles wouldn't still have performance problems in these areas.

That stuff aside the battle system itself feels really good. I'm getting off 30 and 40 hit combo strings pretty frequently and there's still a lot of moves to unlock so I'm really happy that they managed to improve that part of the game. I can definitely see the issues that crippled NG3 popping up here and there but in my opinion if this game had been released as NG3 it wouldn't have gotten anything approaching the hate of the vanilla release.

I am kind of shocked that it appears that they've left the Dino boss fight untouched in this release. I've seen the gif frequently posted and assumed it was some sort of AI glitch but apparently no, they really intended to have a boss that knocks itself out throughout the battle :/
 

Skilletor

Member
Just finished day 2. Staircase in NG2 has nothing on these framedrops.

The game was dropping frames so bad that the music started skipping. This is terribad. lol
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Just finished day 2. Staircase in NG2 has nothing on these framedrops.

The game was dropping frames so bad that the music started skipping. This is terribad. lol

Wow. Unfortunately it does sound bad. FYI, I always thought the framerate in vanilla on 360 wasn't that great; to me it felt like it was stuttering and dropping quite frequently, if briefly, in outdoor environments.

Given how much Ninja Gaiden 2 (vanilla) slowed down due to all the flying limbs and blood spray, I wonder if some of the slowdown here isn't so much Wii U as Team Ninja's engine still not being able to handle a lot of particle items like the blood and such. Since it's cranked up so far in this version.
 

Skilletor

Member
Wow. Unfortunately it does sound bad. FYI, I always thought the framerate in vanilla on 360 wasn't that great; to me it felt like it was stuttering and dropping quite frequently, if briefly, in outdoor environments.

Given how much Ninja Gaiden 2 (vanilla) slowed down due to all the flying limbs and blood spray, I wonder if some of the slowdown here isn't so much Wii U as Team Ninja's engine still not being able to handle a lot of particle items like the blood and such. Since it's cranked up so far in this version.

I played just a little in to day 2 on the 360 version, but from what I've played of both games, the framerate in the Wii U version is by far worse.
 

Dantis

Member
Any differences in level design and boss design? They were two places the original version was really terrible at.
 

Skilletor

Member
Any differences in level design and boss design? They were two places the original version was really terrible at.

I've only fought the red guy and helicopter boss. Red guy felt more in line with 1 v 1 bosses in NG, but still not as well designed. Helicopter boss was meh.

It felt like some segments in Day 1 were cut. Day 2 seemed the same. So addition by subtraction, I guess. Don't think they changed anything, just took some stuff out to make levels flow a bit better.
 

Dantis

Member
I've only fought the red guy and helicopter boss. Red guy felt more in line with 1 v 1 bosses in NG, but still not as well designed. Helicopter boss was meh.

It felt like some segments in Day 1 were cut. Day 2 seemed the same. So addition by subtraction, I guess. Don't think they changed anything, just took some stuff out to make levels flow a bit better.

The red guy was the only boss I enjoyed in the whole game, but I felt like it went on way too long.

Some of the later bosses were really awful in the original game. I'll be interested to know what you think of them in this version.
 

PJX

Gold Member
The red guy was the only boss I enjoyed in the whole game, but I felt like it went on way too long.

Some of the later bosses were really awful in the original game. I'll be interested to know what you think of them in this version.

Worst boss battles in the history of action games.
 
Just finished day 2. Staircase in NG2 has nothing on these framedrops.

The game was dropping frames so bad that the music started skipping. This is terribad. lol
Yeah, the end of day 2 was just awful. The worst performance I've seen so far from one of these launch games. I'm not having as bad a time overall as you seem to be but maybe I'm not as sensitive to framedrops as I thought.
 
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