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[Ulysses 31]

The Uncharted series has dozens of sequences throughout the games where control of movement is taken away from the player and all you get to do is shoot at specified enemies and objects. I never once heard any of you peeps say that it wasn't gameplay. Why is it now a problem when Hellblade has a sequence like this?

As long as input is required from the player and there's a fail state then I'd count it as gameplay.

We don't know how much input the player was giving to get the results shown in the trailer. Things like the camera panning around Senua's face or the reveal of the big troll I doubt the player has any control over it. If that's the case then IMO those segments don't count as gameplay.

I don't doubt what we saw in the trailer was all rendered in-game.

 

[mortal]

It's a QTE cutscene with hidden prompts and a short walk/run before the game takes control of the camera and plays the cutscene in real-time. Interactive movie like Quantic Dream or The Order.

Not the kind of gameplay that was celebrated before but now it's the biggest trophy

It was pretty evident it was in realtime once they showed off that very scripted gameplay sequence.
It's classic linear design, right? Where the player will see and experience every bit of detail the developers want them to, and nothing more.
Linear games generally have more visual polish than the average open world or sandbox game.
Although some concessions have to be made in the amount of freedom you are given to the player within a game world.

To be honest, despite how captivated I was by the visual fidelity on display, the gameplay (or lack there of) deflated my excitement by the end of the trailer.
I found it frustrating how often the game kept taking agency away from the player in order to play out a cinematic and showcase the spectacle.
I have no beef with linear game design, although I'm not so crazy for the "cinematic experience" design philosophy.
I mostly enjoyed Senua's Sacrifice, and I hope to see more imaginative gameplay for Hellblade 2. Atm I have mixed feelings after watching the latest gameplay trailer .

 

[Topher]

People critique reveals from MS studios far more then they do sony studios it seems. I don't see criticisms like this in every game thread.

Come on. You can't be serious. Sony's games are scrutinized every bit as any other first party console game.

 

[nemiroff]

The Uncharted series has dozens of sequences throughout the games where control of movement is taken away from the player and all you get to do is shoot at specified enemies and objects. I never once heard any of you peeps say that it wasn't gameplay. Why is it now a problem when Hellblade has a sequence like this?

Truthfacts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

People critique reveals from MS studios far more then they do sony studios it seems. I don't see criticisms like this in every game thread.

 

[oldergamer]

Come on. You can't be serious. Sony's games are scrutinized every bit as any other first party console game.

Totally serious. This actually does happen. An example was just given that is perfect...

The Uncharted series has dozens of sequences throughout the games where control of movement is taken away from the player and all you get to do is shoot at specified enemies and objects. I never once heard any of you peeps say that it wasn't gameplay. Why is it now a problem when Hellblade has a sequence like this?

Who was expressing concern over gameplay when similar linear on rails (aka limited interaction) sequences are used in uncharted games? I recall exactly nobody. not a single person. Sony has for years had similar scenes to Hellblade 2, with people saying nothing but praise. Nobody complained about this specifically on HB1. Hmmm I wonder why...

 

[oldergamer]

hahaha hilarious. but an example was given two posts above mine. who's blind again?

 

[DeepEnigma]

hahaha hilarious. but an example was given two posts above mine. who's blind again?

Every thread Sony or MS gets the same bullshit, with the same comments. "walking sim" "movie games" "doesn't look that good" "boring" etc...

Now that the mud gets thrown the other way, "boo hoo I is a sad panda"

Both camps do this, GTFO

 

[oldergamer]

Every thread Sony or MS gets the same bullshit, with the same comments. "walking sim" "movie games" "doesn't look that good" "boring" etc...

Now that the mud gets thrown the other way, "boo hoo I is a sad panda"

Both camps do this, GTFO

Bullshit it does. give me some examples then. I'm not talking about small complaints ( walking simulator is a stupid example ) I'm specifically talking about people expressing concern over every minute detail. it doesn't happen, and I don't think you can show any examples.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Bullshit it does. give me some examples then. I'm not talking about small complaints ( walking simulator is a stupid example ) I'm specifically talking about people expressing concern over every minute detail. it doesn't happen, and I don't think you can show any examples.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Anywho, looking forward to seeing what gameplay improvements they have done, since the first game was a slog. Enjoyed the story aspect, but the ultra repetitive swordplay and enemies wore thin after the first demon zone. The combat wasn't gripping enough and felt just there to "pass go" on the rest of the story.

They are definitely going to need to up their game on the combat, but I think they are going to throw the time and resources at it to makes sure this works. Ninja Theory certainly know how to do compelling combat, so I am cautiously optimistic on that front.

 

[nemiroff]

Totally serious. This actually does happen. An example was just given that is perfect...



Who was expressing concern over gameplay when similar linear on rails (aka limited interaction) sequences are used in uncharted games? I recall exactly nobody. not a single person. Sony has for years had similar scenes to Hellblade 2, with people saying nothing but praise. Nobody complained about this specifically on HB1. Hmmm I wonder why...

Don't forget the game that even got entries in Guiness World Records for its amount of cutscenes:

At one point, Metal Gear Solid 4 also held two different Guinness World Records for the length of its cutscenes; the longest cutscene at 27 minutes and the longest sequence of cutscenes at 71 minutes.

 

[Topher]

Totally serious. This actually does happen. An example was just given that is perfect...



Who was expressing concern over gameplay when similar linear on rails (aka limited interaction) sequences are used in uncharted games? I recall exactly nobody. not a single person. Sony has for years had similar scenes to Hellblade 2, with people saying nothing but praise. Nobody complained about this specifically on HB1. Hmmm I wonder why...

And I have seen several Xbox fans make negative remarks about Sony's "cinematic" approach to gaming and yet here we are with a "cinematic" Microsoft game and now it is just fine. Sorry, but this works entirely both ways. I'm not saying the criticism of HB 2 here is fair. But claiming Sony's games don't get this kind of bullshit scrutiny is simply false.

Bullshit it does. give me some examples then. I'm not talking about small complaints ( walking simulator is a stupid example ) I'm specifically talking about people expressing concern over every minute detail. it doesn't happen, and I don't think you can show any examples.

QTEs in the Spider-Man reveal received the same "concern".

 

[GermanZepp]

Why wouldn't be real time?

 

[DeepEnigma]

And I have seen several Xbox fans make negative remarks about Sony's "cinematic" approach to gaming and yet here we are with a "cinematic" Microsoft game and now it is just fine. Sorry, but this works entirely both ways. I'm not saying the criticism of HB 2 here is fair. But claiming Sony's games don't get this kind of bullshit scrutiny is simply false.

There is a ban list to show it happens on both sides, equally. This is some disingenuous shit to say otherwise.

Why wouldn't be real time?

Seriously. Outside of the select trolling, I always thought the argument was, "how much of was full control gameplay and not on rails point to point scripted cinematics." You know, the shit that was heavily criticized the past few years from another platforms cinematic "movie games."

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Bullshit it does. give me some examples then. I'm not talking about small complaints ( walking simulator is a stupid example ) I'm specifically talking about people expressing concern over every minute detail. it doesn't happen, and I don't think you can show any examples.

You should be an actor. You'd be great at playing the victim

 

[Beechos]

How much shit do people expect in a short video lol. What was shown is impressive regardless of what the hell it was. Ppl commenting on lack of gameplay have never played part 1. Shit like this is possible we just played and seen the matrix demo in realtime. Wtf do people want to see devil may cry style combos or someshit.

 

[Topher]

There is a ban list to show it happens on both sides, equally. This is some disingenuous shit to say otherwise.

Two words: puddle. gate.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Bullshit it does. give me some examples then. I'm not talking about small complaints ( walking simulator is a stupid example ) I'm specifically talking about people expressing concern over every minute detail. it doesn't happen, and I don't think you can show any examples.

Where were you when TLOU2 came out? Youtubers made a career on shitting on that game and I still see threads and articles about it every week.

So tired of watching you guys play the victims every single time. You guys made fun of those cinematic games for over a decade and now you have to defend them oops lol

 

[RoadHazard]

About 5 seconds of it is actual gameplay. But I have no reason to believe it's not all in-engine.

 

[Gameplaylover]

Bullshit it does. give me some examples then. I'm not talking about small complaints ( walking simulator is a stupid example ) I'm specifically talking about people expressing concern over every minute detail. it doesn't happen, and I don't think you can show any examples.

Percentagewise both sides should have the same amount of "concerned" hardcore fanboys, so if GAF would balanced with Sony and Microsoft fans it should be the same.

 

[IAmNotFromDelaware]

How much shit do people expect in a short video lol. What was shown is impressive regardless of what the hell it was. Ppl commenting on lack of gameplay have never played part 1. Shit like this is possible we just played and seen the matrix demo in realtime. Wtf do people want to see devil may cry style combos or someshit.

I read the initial post and thought, ok then, everything is clear now. Ten minutes later "Liar!". I'm not sure if the whole thing is sad or pathetic.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You guys made fun of those cinematic games for over a decade and now you have to defend them oops lol

 

[KaiserBecks]

Why is it now a problem when Hellblade has a sequence like this?

It's a problem because Hellblade doesn't have that thingy in the bottom right corner.

 

[Dr Bass]

Bullshit it does. give me some examples then. I'm not talking about small complaints ( walking simulator is a stupid example ) I'm specifically talking about people expressing concern over every minute detail. it doesn't happen, and I don't think you can show any examples.

Again, have you been in any Sony game threads? Have you read the comments discussing Horizon FW?

The comments DeepEnigma quoted as examples are basically "memes" for Sony games at this point, not "small complaints." I can name names on this board that say games from Sony have "bad gameplay" and yes, these people are now drooling over HB2.

I mean, I like everything. I actually DO think some Sony games aren't great (The ND games in general DO bore me a bit), and I didn't think HB1 was very good when I played it on PS4. Definitely had great visuals for it's day but again, not much meat on the bones on that one. But I hold out hope for HB2. I think they will have to do more than what part 1 did, and I think they will.

But yeah there is still far too much tribalism on this board. It's hardly ever a game discussion board and more a "why my box is better than your box" scream fest. Only idiots truly care about that. If you like games I don't see the issue with just getting all the platforms and playing the games that appeal to you. There is no way in hell that one box has 100% intersection with a person's interests while the other box has 0% intersection. So clearly if someone wants to argue one box sucks and the other is brilliant (meanwhile they are nearly identical in real world performance), that person is a grade-A nimrod.

 

[DeepEnigma]

But yeah there is still far too much tribalism on this board. It's hardly ever a game discussion board and more a "why my box is better than your box" scream fest. Only idiots truly care about that. If you like games I don't see the issue with just getting all the platforms and playing the games that appeal to you. There is no way in hell that one box has 100% intersection with a person's interests while the other box has 0% intersection. So clearly if someone wants to argue one box sucks and the other is brilliant (meanwhile they are nearly identical in real world performance), that person is a grade-A nimrod.

 

[Topher]

It's a problem because Hellblade doesn't have that thingy in the bottom right corner.

All about the console war. Change that "thingy" to

and be amazed how the reactions change for some. Works both ways.

 

[TheTechnician]

Yes it's real time even noticed LOD shift on her face at one point. On what machine? That's the question.

PS5

 

[TheGodfather07]

It's a problem because Hellblade doesn't have that thingy in the bottom right corner.

The scripted sequences ain't a problem. The people who used to have an issue with but who now praise it are! What happened to walky talky cinematic movie games being shit? You should expect to be called out for blatant hypocrisy.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Again, have you been in any Sony game threads? Have you read the comments discussing Horizon FW?

The comments DeepEnigma DeepEnigma quoted as examples are basically "memes" for Sony games at this point, not "small complaints." I can name names on this board that say games from Sony have "bad gameplay" and yes, these people are now drooling over HB2.

If I had time I would like to dig in their post history to see if they were hype for Hellblade when it was announced at a Playstation conference. Same for the Uncharted series or Detroit Become Human.

I guess they were playing them all secretly. That genre is getting so much respect now

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

The scripted sequences ain't a problem. The people who used to have an issue with but who now praise it are! What happened to walky talky cinematic movie games being shit? You should expect to be called out for blatant hypocrisy.

I don't like those games. Hb2 looks amazing and will have top tier audio. Gameplay no clue. Better step it up from the first though or I won't play it.(maybe on gamepass) You can dislike cinematic games and still think this looks amazing because visually it does.

 

[KaiserBecks]

All about the console war. Change that "thingy" to

and be amazed how the reactions change for some. Works both ways.

Yes and it's more entertaining than those cinematic games. I hate them. Hate them.

 

[Keihart]

Sure, but where is the gameplay tho?

 

[mortal]

The Uncharted series has dozens of sequences throughout the games where control of movement is taken away from the player and all you get to do is shoot at specified enemies and objects. I never once heard any of you peeps say that it wasn't gameplay. Why is it now a problem when Hellblade has a sequence like this?

Why do you assume literally anyone expressing any sort of criticism thinks the exact same thing? That's rather presumptuous of you, no?
It's always tribals lines with some fo you; if you don't like A then you must also be B, or a salty fanboy, etc.
Simply because you claim to have never seen nor heard any criticism laid against the Uncharted series does not mean they do not exist. It's a rather arrogant notion to be honest.

I can praise to Uncharted games for their visual spectacle and character drama, but I take issue with "cinematic experience" games and the over-reliance on scripted set pieces regardless of who makes them or whatever platform they're exclusives to.
Dislike or criticizing game design should not automatically imply someone is a biased fanboy, that's unreasonable.
How can we ever have genuine, interesting discourse around the subject of game design or level design if this is the frame we default to?

 

[Topher]

Yes and it's more entertaining than those cinematic games. I hate them. Hate them.

So not a fan of Hellblade 2 then?

 

[Bernkastel]

How ironic. A guy actively responding to people trying to stop thread derailing troll attempts calling this a scripted CGI and instead bombarding them with whataboutism narratives. So me one example of those games where people supposedly criticized it for the same reason were derailed this hard from having any discussion? Whats funny is most were responding to the "Order 1886" comments, since unlike the latter Hellblade received many awards for its presentation and was never looked as a failure. And ofcourse this is coming from the same guy that went around educating people what Forza vista is and reddit gif memeing in the thread about Forza Horizon 5 not having ray tracing and just took a popcorn and ignored the thread about the same news on SIE's upcoming sim racer. After all as you described yourself

 

[DeepEnigma]

How ironic. A guy asking actively responding to people trying to stop thread derailing troll attempts calling this a scripted CGI and instead bombarding them with whataboutism narratives. So me one example of those games where people supposedly criticized it for the same reason were derailed this hard from having any discussion? Whats funny is most were responding to the "Order 1886" comments, since unlike the latter Hellblade received many awards for its presentation and was never looked as a failure. And ofcourse this is coming from the same guy that went around educating people what Forza vista is and reddit gif memeing in the thread about Forza Horizon 5 not having ray tracing and just took a popcorn and ignored the thread about the same news on SIE's upcoming sim racer. After all as you described yourself

 

[KaiserBecks]

So not a fan of Hellblade 2 then?

Haven't tried the first and it's highly unlikely I'll play the second. I do think the whole schizophrenic binaural audio schtick is great, but it's not my type of game. I gave Uncharted 2, 3, The Last of Us, TLoU2 etc a chance, but I'm incredibly turned off by the (or what I interpret as) limited kind of interaction. All these games look fantastic and play like shit.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

It was pretty evident it was in realtime once they showed off that very scripted gameplay sequence.
It's classic linear design, right? Where the player will see and experience every bit of detail the developers want them to, and nothing more.
Linear games generally have more visual polish than the average open world or sandbox game.
Although some concessions have to be made in the amount of freedom you are given to the player within a game world.

To be honest, despite how captivated I was by the visual fidelity on display, the gameplay (or lack there of) deflated my excitement by the end of the trailer.
I found it frustrating how often the game kept taking agency away from the player in order to play out a cinematic and showcase the spectacle.
I have no beef with linear game design, although I'm not so crazy for the "cinematic experience" design philosophy.
I mostly enjoyed Senua's Sacrifice, and I hope to see more imaginative gameplay for Hellblade 2. Atm I have mixed feelings after watching the latest gameplay trailer .

Even by linear, scripted sequence standards that footage was extraordinarily impressive from a visual standpoint.

 

[DForce]

Who was expressing concern over gameplay when similar linear on rails (aka limited interaction) sequences are used in uncharted games? I recall exactly nobody. not a single person. Sony has for years had similar scenes to Hellblade 2, with people saying nothing but praise. Nobody complained about this specifically on HB1. Hmmm I wonder why...

The Uncharted series has dozens of sequences throughout the games where control of movement is taken away from the player and all you get to do is shoot at specified enemies and objects. I never once heard any of you peeps say that it wasn't gameplay. Why is it now a problem when Hellblade has a sequence like this?

Most people are likely trolling Xbox fans on here because they were the ones criticizing PlayStation games for being "walking simulators" and "cinematic" video games with shallow gameplay.

Uncharted 4 was called a "climbing simulator"
Last of Us and God of War were called "Dad simulator"
Days Gone was called "The Last of Us" Clone when it was revealed.

Many Xbox fans have called the games "movies" instead of games. Oh, there's a place outside of this forum and this stuff happens a lot across social media.

Here are examples of people criticizing sony's "cinematic" games.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/are-sony-exclusives-too-samey.1463180/

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/are-playstation-exclusives-the-best-games-in-the-industry.1475354/

God of War reveal

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/god-of-war-e3-2016-trailer-gameplay-not-open-world-all-kratos-2017.1233037/

"Looks fucking awful. They TLOu'd it. Overly cinematic tarbage, terrible camera and no hit counter, son companion. Ughthfh"

"They can do something different without making it overly cinematic trash. God of war was a series focused around its gameplay and now it's just tropez melodramatic bs."

"I hope this enemy is just a tutorial. I would hate to see the game becoming even more scripted and "cinematic"."

"Yeah, it looks like The Last of Us: God of War edition.

Would be cool as a new IP, but it's not a character action game."

Google search this image and see exactly how many twitter accounts that it's linked to.. You'll see that it's mainly Xbox fanboys.

PS4 Games are Interactive Movies (let's hash this low level bait out)​

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps4-games-are-interactive-movies-lets-hash-this-low-level-bait-out.1505698

Just like I said earlier, people are likely trolling just to see how Xbox fanboys react now that MS is releasing a cinematic, over-the-shoulder, third-person action game - the type of game that was heavily criticized.

 

[Bernkastel]

Ah yes, reddit tier gifs dressed as self self-congratulation. Truly the perfect low effort reply after all that effort you put into derailing the thread.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Ah yes, reddit tier gifs dressed as self self-congratulation. Truly the perfect low effort reply after all that effort you put into derailing the thread.

Oh holy one, you are so above all criticisms and critique. Teach me your ways!

The fucking thread was derailed long before me, you damned goofy clown shoes.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Most people are likely trolling Xbox fans on here because they were the ones criticizing PlayStation games for being "walking simulators" and "cinematic" video games with shallow gameplay.

Uncharted 4 was called a "climbing simulator"
Last of Us and God of War were called "Dad simulator"
Days Gone was called "The Last of Us" Clone when it was revealed.

Many Xbox fans have called the games "movies" instead of games. Oh, there's a place outside of this forum and this stuff happens a lot across social media.

Here are examples of people criticizing sony's "cinematic" games.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/are-sony-exclusives-too-samey.1463180/

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/are-playstation-exclusives-the-best-games-in-the-industry.1475354/

God of War reveal

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/god-of-war-e3-2016-trailer-gameplay-not-open-world-all-kratos-2017.1233037/

Google search this image and see exactly how many twitter accounts that it's linked to.. You'll see that it's mainly Xbox fanboys.

PS4 Games are Interactive Movies (let's hash this low level bait out)​

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps4-games-are-interactive-movies-lets-hash-this-low-level-bait-out.1505698

Just like I said earlier, people are likely trolling just to see how Xbox fanboys react now that MS is releasing a cinematic, over-the-shoulder, third-person action game - the type of game that was heavily criticized.

People don't harp on Sony games because they are cinematic. They harp on Sony for making the majority of their franchises follow the same formula of being 3rd person action/adventure with a lot of cinematic "hold your hand" sequences.

Those are two different things.

 

[Keihart]

If I had time I would like to dig in their post history to see if they were hype for Hellblade when it was announced at a Playstation conference. Same for the Uncharted series or Detroit Become Human.

I guess they were playing them all secretly. That genre is getting so much respect now

Yo, i been shitting on Ninja Theory games since the PS3 days, don't bring Uncharted into this discussion.
At least ND games are heavy on the combat and mechanics department despite what warriors like to say and even setpieces are more often than not interactive which is what makes them shine when you compare them with other so called "cinematic" games.

No to mention, Uncharted and TLoU have revealed gameplay with combat segments even if only vertical slices for demo porpuses, this was just a cinematic, very hard to get any exciment over it

 

[mortal]

Even by linear, scripted sequence standards that footage was extraordinarily impressive from a visual standpoint.

I am not arguing against that, though. That was never my contention.
I agree and Hellblade 2, as of this post, sets a new bar for realtime visuals in a commercial game.
How much more definitive praise can I give? lol

Visuals are still only half of the equation, and the other half is the interactive game.
I found that latter half lacking in this case, so I hope the next showing is a lot more interesting.

 

[Bernkastel]

Oh holy one, you are so above all criticisms and critique.

Tell me when I derail the thread of a game you care about.

 

[Ozriel]

The scripted sequences ain't a problem. The people who used to have an issue with but who now praise it are! What happened to walky talky cinematic movie games being shit? You should expect to be called out for blatant hypocrisy.

So why aren’t you calling out specific people?

“an Xbox fanboy said something bad about cinematic Sony games a while ago, so I’m perfectly justified to come into the thread for an xbox exclusive game and accuse everyone of hypocrisy”

Facepalm.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Tell me when I derail the thread of a game you care about.

Once again, thread was derailed long before I posted in it. Kick rocks.

 

[wolffy71]

I see a lot of games that dont look fun or games that i dislike the graphics/art styles.

I dont spend any time talking about those games.

Maybe I'm the weird one.

 

[Gavon West]

Its pretty hilarious this AA game is be treated like its a AAA.

It will be AAA.