brap
Banned
Big dick badasses who like to have fun and fuck grown adults instead of kids? Sounds about right.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nintendo Confirms Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore Japanese Version is Based on Western Version and Features Changes
- Thread starter SLoWMoTIoN
- Start date
- Cringe
Lord Thunderbear
Member
The creators made a game about idols, with some scantily clad characters and enemies and an hot springs DLC, but they didn't actually mean to objectify women or something similar.
That would be, like, bad.
Better censor those things, you know. You don't want to ruin a game with a premise so pure and chaste.
That would be, like, bad.
Better censor those things, you know. You don't want to ruin a game with a premise so pure and chaste.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
And that's a good thing!
theclaw135
Banned
There's more or less productive ways to complain. A grounded effort to investigate the source, as opposed to getting upset and tossing around accusations.
Isa
Member
Well its good to know for sure, thanks OP. I'm torn because I didn't get the game on WiiU, and refused to support the garbled mess that was the western product. I had hoped that they would have learnt their lesson, but with such an eager base on Switch it must've been easier to try and act like nothing ever happened.
What I am so surprised about is how in the past couple of decades it has become taboo to like entertainment that may feature a teenager or two. Like what's so different from Stranger Things and any one of the myriad anime tropes? Why are we adults and presumably teens themselves unable to enjoy works with them as heroes or leads? People like to scream minor and pedo like they are some innocent paragons of virtue, but they are fictitious. Why is it wrong for us as a species to be attracted to young adults? So many of my friends married young (16+), and they are all still married with children. Shit the Satellite radio at work jumps several stations and one song frequently heard is "She's only seventeen". And with the traditionally low life-expectancy of the species I'm surprised that typically western "progressives" would try to not only discourage the practice but vilify those who do.
I'm not some dude trying to fap to vidya, never have and I've got a girl who is a few years older than me anyhow which should lend an idea as to where my interest lies. No, I just wanted the original product where I can slip away into some fantastical world where some teens get together to save the world through the power of friendship and all that nonsense. But apparently we can't have nice things, 'cause others have decided what may or may no be seen.
What I am so surprised about is how in the past couple of decades it has become taboo to like entertainment that may feature a teenager or two. Like what's so different from Stranger Things and any one of the myriad anime tropes? Why are we adults and presumably teens themselves unable to enjoy works with them as heroes or leads? People like to scream minor and pedo like they are some innocent paragons of virtue, but they are fictitious. Why is it wrong for us as a species to be attracted to young adults? So many of my friends married young (16+), and they are all still married with children. Shit the Satellite radio at work jumps several stations and one song frequently heard is "She's only seventeen". And with the traditionally low life-expectancy of the species I'm surprised that typically western "progressives" would try to not only discourage the practice but vilify those who do.
I'm not some dude trying to fap to vidya, never have and I've got a girl who is a few years older than me anyhow which should lend an idea as to where my interest lies. No, I just wanted the original product where I can slip away into some fantastical world where some teens get together to save the world through the power of friendship and all that nonsense. But apparently we can't have nice things, 'cause others have decided what may or may no be seen.
theclaw135
Banned
Regardless Nintendo's hands are tied. The game features material owned by Atlus and Intelligent Systems.
Even if they wanted to release the game uncensored, they can't just do it.
Even if they wanted to release the game uncensored, they can't just do it.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
That isn't true at all. If that were the case the original JPN version would have never existed.
CrisPy2019
Member
Hey dear idiots at Nintendo and all the other companies.
Some westerners like anime and Japanese culture. These are the people that buy your games and ONLY these people are the reason why the west even has a market for japanese manga anime etc. Guess what these customers are used to the way anime etc. works and looks.
Then you have stupid SJWs whining about everything. Even whining about other people whining. Because it's some kind of Olympic discipline with a trophy or something.
These don't care about your games. At all. They are just attention whores.
The people that like your culture like it because or despite your worldview and art style and traditions etc. And wasting time catering to the non-audience while most people either don't care or get angry that you give in to the idiots is totally not the right thing to do.
You are traitors to your own culture for what exactly?
Some westerners like anime and Japanese culture. These are the people that buy your games and ONLY these people are the reason why the west even has a market for japanese manga anime etc. Guess what these customers are used to the way anime etc. works and looks.
Then you have stupid SJWs whining about everything. Even whining about other people whining. Because it's some kind of Olympic discipline with a trophy or something.
These don't care about your games. At all. They are just attention whores.
The people that like your culture like it because or despite your worldview and art style and traditions etc. And wasting time catering to the non-audience while most people either don't care or get angry that you give in to the idiots is totally not the right thing to do.
You are traitors to your own culture for what exactly?
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Why Nintendo just launch the game in 2 versions like Resident evil 2 remake.
A censored and uncensored version.. or at least put like N64 resident evil 2... you choose the option to put censored or not.
I think it's xenophobia.
They do not censor Mortal Kombat, but they do censor Final Fantasy VIII.
They don't censor The last of Us Part II ... but Devil May cry 5.
Hypocrisy in Western culture
A censored and uncensored version.. or at least put like N64 resident evil 2... you choose the option to put censored or not.
I think it's xenophobia.
They do not censor Mortal Kombat, but they do censor Final Fantasy VIII.
They don't censor The last of Us Part II ... but Devil May cry 5.
Hypocrisy in Western culture
Last edited:
theclaw135
Banned
The original JPN version had to be approved through all parties involved..
The game isn't Nintendo's property alone.
ranmafan
Member
Like many people said, it’s probably cost saving and all. It will be easier for them to just work on one version over the other. They could’ve done it though if they wanted. There have been quite a few games in the switch era that have not had a universal release. Xenoblade 2 comes to mind where the Japanese version doesn’t have English for example.
it’s still incredibly silly that the game has to have these changes made to it in the first place. probably the tamest game I’ve seen get so much unnecessary censorship.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
How so? The original version is the Japanese version. Intelligent Systems and Atlus have never been the type to censor things themselves. So did makes no sense to me.
Weird I thought it did.
XC2 gives you the optional JPN audio as free dlc.
InterMusketeer
Member
Ultimately it doesn't really matter which party exactly is responsible for this decision. The only thing that matters is that the message is received that people want the original Japanese version, and not the butchered censored one. It really would be a huge shame if they don't reconsider their choice. I find it hard to belive it'd be a difficult change to make.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
You think this censored thing is because Youtubers or old man of ESRB? Or why this generation in a short time give this all crap of censored things?
Dontspeakforme
Banned
Just give it a shot. What do you have to lose? Worst case scenario you stop being a weeb and actually get a chance to reproduce.
theclaw135
Banned
I'm referring to the legal side of the situation.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
That poorly added on smog effect.
The bizarre thing is, when you start the actual boss fight, they remove the fog effect, and the edit to her attire is actually pretty decent!
Last edited:
ranmafan
Member
I think it’s probably a lot of things. Absolutely ESRB fears probably played a factor, as even monster boobs were censored. I’m sure the YouTube and the extremely vocal minority crowd were something they were worried about too. So they went out of their way to change things.
It’s so silly that it happened in the first place. And now it’s just worse that it’s being forced on Japanese gamers. I don’t like censorship at all, and I see it a lot in Japan over many things. But when it happens in games especially it’s incredibly stupid all of the time.
for me especially Ginei Ibun Roku #FE (the Japanese name of the game, the version I played) is a very important title to me. One of the games of the generation for me. A game that deserved a second chance. This ruins that chance to be a hit. Of course it could still sell better cause of a bigger switch user base, but the fact that Nintendo had to respond officially the way they did so quickly leads me to believe in Japan the title will be in trouble
blackjon24
Member
What does that say about the game if the fanbase isn't buying this because of a bit less fan service? I don't know how you take awesome properties like smt and fire emblem and end up with garbage like this. Hope we never see this game again after this
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Did you actually play the game before calling it “garbage”? Also I’m sure you yourself don’t like see your favourite game get censored, people have right get upset about seeing their games get censored.
Last edited:
The Mad Draklor
Member
Translation: “I’m full of shit and have absolutely no sound arguments, so all I can do is continue to poison the well”.
The Mad Draklor
Member
So tell me, o’omnipotent one, what was the purpose of removing the hip bones or outright, butchering story content?
Or perhaps, it is censorship by virtue of what artistic freedom is and Occam’s Razor.
cabbage5k2
Member
The bizarre thing is, when you start the actual boss fight, they remove the fog effect, and the edit to her attire is actually pretty decent!
This damned game is so bloody confusing at this point.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Yes the censorship in TMS#FE is very bizarre. Even the bikini cloth they censored still exists in NA version, you just see it when you use Tsubasa’s Ad-lib Performance.
Last edited:
theclaw135
Banned
OK. I'd say the original development team making a questionable decision is the simplest explanation.
No outside party has claimed responsibility for meddling with the game.
Hecaton117
Member
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Are you expecting an "outside party" to make a public post someday claiming that they somehow directly altered the game?
That's not how this works. Japanese companies, when bringing over games to North America will sometimes remove or change elements of the game because they want to reduce the backlash they are going to get from certain groups, which for a long time was outraged Christians/Catholics until recently when the source of the outrage changed position.
There's a long history of this spanning decades. No single party or person can individually claim responsibility here. I imagine that they make a judgement over whether or not keeping the game intact will potentially lead to some bad PR and go from there.
Like I mentioned before, you can generally tell why a company changed something based on the changes themselves. If the changes are focused on covering the skin of female characters for example, then it's obvious who exactly their trying to avoid the ire of. Especially when they make statements alluding to.
Last edited:
Senhua
Member
I think this game is cleary passion project by Atlus Dev studio 1 and been developed for Japanese market first which it's ok considering the theme of the game but they fail to consider this game will be buchered by western localization staff because there are some element potentially can spark some outrage in the west.
That's way all new Switch first party games these day been developed with global market in mind (western localization staff at threehouse actively visiting Japan during development to give their input) to ensure this incident will not repeat again. See FE 3H for example.
So yes, I agree with you. This kind of stuff in Japanese WII ver of the game is clearly not Nintendo of Japan wanted in their games these day. And expect all their first party output will adopt the same way onward. I think this is the last we see about Idol/Jpop #FE kind of game, expect #FE 2 (if happen) will be much different kind of game especially for Idol/Gravure stuff.
theclaw135
Banned
I'm saying censorship wasn't the intent.
But no, that doesn't make it acceptable. Several things are sloppy. And some of it would still be sloppy had it been in the Japanese version all along (like the weird fog).
Senhua
Member
The last Switch first party game which have different version is XB2 AFAIK after that all is one global version: 3H, AC, SMO, LA, SMM2, MUA3, LM3 etc so no this is not because Nintendo just simply cheapen out but there are some changes in how they develop their first party games lately.
Last edited:
theclaw135
Banned
It's great to make raunchy games. They have as much place as any.
Alas, games produced for a global market don't enjoy that luxury. Studios who set out to sell their game to the masses worldwide must accept that standards vary and integrate it into the creation process.
The train of thought makes Tokyo Mirage Sessions all the more baffling. It's rarely particularly objectionable viewed in context of the material.
A niche game to boot.
Last edited:
Unknown Soldier
Member
I feel like the best way to play this game, should you actually want to, would be to load an uncensored Wii U ISO into Dolphin and play it that way.
Petrae
Member
Here in the United States, we’re fine with shooting a woman in the head or decapitating her in video games... but she had better have sensible clothing on!
It’s fucking stupid, and it’s only getting worse as the Woke Age persists.
The Mad Draklor
Member
But meddling did occur regardless and by a certain party. Therefore, the original artistic intent was altered in a way that was (1) condescending to the target audience and (2) butchered story content.
You can make whatever semantic argument you like, but if the original vision is altered and bastardized, that is censorship.
theclaw135
Banned
Altering one's own work by choice isn't meddling, but it is censorship when censorship is the goal.
The Mad Draklor
Member
But then you need to prove that the alterations were done by choice, not to mention that the choice was done with independent autonomy and not because someone else told the creators to do so.
Fact of the matter is, the original vision was heavily butchered. By virtue of Occam’s Razor, there was meddling as Nintendo has not made any viable arguments justifying those changes.
theclaw135
Banned
But that can be argued from either point of view. There is no proof to substantiate that Nintendo asked, or didn't ask, for the changes.
Endless Fluff
Banned
The designer (Hirata) had spoken out about the changes he had to make for the western release and he was disappointed that he had to make them. It was clearly not his choice.
Trying to call this any less than self-censorship is disingenuous. This is the same form of censorship that happened in the 90s till 2010ish here in Germany, were devs and publishers toned their games down to make sure that they get a rating. No one forced them to do this either... nowadays they advertise their games as uncensored.
Trying to call this any less than self-censorship is disingenuous. This is the same form of censorship that happened in the 90s till 2010ish here in Germany, were devs and publishers toned their games down to make sure that they get a rating. No one forced them to do this either... nowadays they advertise their games as uncensored.
Last edited:
The Mad Draklor
Member
But the claim that is censorship makes more sense due to Occam’s Razor. In addition, your argument that the changes are not censorship because the intent behind the changes were not for censorship falls flat in two ways.
For one thing, it’s a Denying the Antecedent fallacy. Secondly, censorship does not necessarily need intent by definition. People who censor usually do not admit they did the censorship. They tend to justify it with dubious reasons like “Think of the children” to make the censorship look less bullshitty.
theclaw135
Banned
If you want me to call it censorship, so be it.
I will not, however, stoop to casting undue blame on Nintendo.
Obviously they did see and permit the changes. Whether they requested them was left deliberately ambiguous (as Endless Fluff says).
The Chairman
Member
Funny news, Japanese gamers are now buying a lot of the uncensored Wii U version of the game instead of the Switch version
Amazon.co.jp 売れ筋ランキング: Wii Uゲームソフト の中で最も人気のある商品です
Amazon.co.jp 売れ筋ランキング: Wii Uゲームソフト の中で最も人気のある商品です
www.amazon.co.jp
The Mad Draklor
Member
And yet Endless Fluff says that the designer was disappointed about the changes he had to make, so your claims that Nintendo gets “undue blame” is unsound. If it was Atlus’s doing, then similar cases would’ve been documented from their other games.
In addition, a game with the same rating like Dragon Quest XI S also has sexual themes. And yet, I don’t see changes that censor the original version.
Starlight Lotice
Member
Funny news, Japanese gamers are now buying a lot of the uncensored Wii U version of the game instead of the Switch version
Amazon.co.jp 売れ筋ランキング: Wii Uゲームソフト の中で最も人気のある商品です
Amazon.co.jp 売れ筋ランキング: Wii Uゲームソフト の中で最も人気のある商品ですwww.amazon.co.jp
All according to plan. I bet!
theclaw135
Banned
Why don't we stop with the logical fallacies? I'm cool with being wrong.
That doesn't make the most sound argument the truth.
Without something like a sworn affidavit that Nintendo censored the game, we'll spin in circles back to "Occam's Razor".
That doesn't make the most sound argument the truth.
Without something like a sworn affidavit that Nintendo censored the game, we'll spin in circles back to "Occam's Razor".
ranmafan
Member
Funny news, Japanese gamers are now buying a lot of the uncensored Wii U version of the game instead of the Switch version
Amazon.co.jp 売れ筋ランキング: Wii Uゲームソフト の中で最も人気のある商品です
Amazon.co.jp 売れ筋ランキング: Wii Uゲームソフト の中で最も人気のある商品ですwww.amazon.co.jp
This is a nice way for gamers to vote with their wallet now. While I doubt Nintendo will care so much, I hope the fans keep up their emotion about this and keep letting Nintendo know they screwed up and should fix it. Even though it’s an insane long shot, it’s nice to see gamers are doing something about it.
kunonabi
Member
Atlus typically doesn't butcher their games that much lately. TMS came out during a period where Nintendo was heavily censoring a bunch of of their Wii U and 3DS output including legit 3rd party content they weren't even publishing. The chances of Nintendo not being behind this trainwreck are so slim as to be practically 0%.
Senhua
Member
Also AFAIK the sales ratio of the Wii U ver is like 1:8 with heavily favor the overseas (english) one so unfortunately when only can choose one, they just simply decided: "ah, lets port the most sold one"
thequestion
Member
Buying this crappy sjw friendly port, is akin to purchasing a brand new film, edited for network television. Why waste my time, Nintendo?