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[The Mad Draklor]

Why don't we stop with the logical fallacies? I'm cool with being wrong.

That doesn't make the most sound argument the truth.
Without something like a sworn affidavit that Nintendo censored the game, we'll spin in circles back to "Occam's Razor".

Only that I and others have already provided other pieces of evidence that suggests the incident of censorship, e.g. designer not being happy, lack of censorship in DQ XIS despite having same teen rating, Atlus not butchering their other games (Persona, Catherine, Shin Megami Tensei). But hey, I guess you can just ignore those for convenience.

 

[darkangel-212559]

Uncensored Version Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Becomes Best-Selling Wii U Game On Amazon Japan

Who needs the Switch release?

www.nintendolife.com

the uncensored 2016 version of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE has now become the best-selling Wii U title on Amazon Japan. As can be seen above, the special edition is also performing quite well.

 

[The_Intruder]

I wonder if nintendo can backtrack their stance about this game and delay it if they see too many complaints about that.
-After seeing them asking the developers of gal gun 2 to bring their game on the system
-NOA has autorized Senran Kagura refle in USA,
-A deal with Nintendo Europe and NIS for an exclusive physical version of Snk heroines in Europe and now all their first party have japanese voices directly in physical version without the need to download them.
This one is really in a weird spot.

I guess this will tell a lot about this if one day we have a port of Xenoblade Chronicles X uncensored on the switch.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm pretty sure it's a money saving measure, Hashtag FE bombed in every region so they just wanted to port 1 version instead of 2 to lower costs. It's just hilarious that they thought they could port the censored version back to Japan and no one would notice.

Xenoblade is actually handled by Nintendo Treehouse though so I'm sure they were preserve censorship on any remasters. Money isn't the issue there, it's Treehouse.

 

[Vitacat]

Meh. It's still a terrific and unique game, and worth your time if you like the gameplay style and aesthetics.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Meh. It's still a terrific and unique game, and worth your time if you like the gameplay style and aesthetics.

Though it would be counterproductive of the anti-censorship people to give Nintendo their money for #FE Encore. The best that can be done is to give Nintendo money for games they are not censored and if they really want to play TMS badly, maybe play an uncensored English version of the game (if it exists) on CEMU.

 

[Danjin44]

Though it would be counterproductive of the anti-censorship people to give Nintendo their money for #FE Encore. The best that can be done is to give Nintendo money for games they are not censored and if they really want to play TMS badly, maybe play an uncensored English version of the game (if it exists) on CEMU.

Except thats not how they would take it, they would simply think people are just not interested in type of game in west. The censorship is really sucks but I really, really enjoyed the game when first came on WiiU and I really want to play it again.

 

[theclaw135]

Only that I and others have already provided other pieces of evidence that suggests the incident of censorship, e.g. designer not being happy, lack of censorship in DQ XIS despite having same teen rating, Atlus not butchering their other games (Persona, Catherine, Shin Megami Tensei). But hey, I guess you can just ignore those for convenience.

That doesn't get us anywhere. We'll end up at correlation does not imply causation.

 

[Klayzer]

Yeah, not getting the WIIU jp release is a big letdown, but still will buy the Switch version anyway because I loved the battle system. I wonder if the people that's dead set against the game would just give it a chance, especially if you are into SMT style games.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Except thats not how they would take it, they would simply think people are just not interested in type of game in west. The censorship is really sucks but I really, really enjoyed the game when first came on WiiU and I really want to play it again.

Excellent Avatar

 

[The Chairman]

Nah, i'm not supporting censorship with my money. if Nintendo saw that the game sold a lot in the west then they will think that the censorship is the reason and they will censor all of their future games since it seems that the westerners "like it" that way and will keep buying that butchered shit even if they complained about it in the beginning.

There is a lot of Japanese games that deserve my money that wasn't a hack job from some rogue colored hair SJWs working at Treehouse.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Uncensored Version Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Becomes Best-Selling Wii U Game On Amazon Japan

Who needs the Switch release?

www.nintendolife.com

FUCK NINTENDO!
Proceeds to buy the Wii U version

 

[The Mad Draklor]

That doesn't get us anywhere. We'll end up at correlation does not imply causation.

But you have offered no evidence that suggests that it is not censorship. And because there are more pieces of evidence that suggests the contrary, then more likely the changes made in the localization is censorship. I mean, for what other reason other than censorship were hip bones were removed or skin covered up? For such a trivial matter, why did Nintendo find those things significant enough to warrant altering those things?

Your correlation not implying causation argument falls flat in of itself, too. As already pointed out, the designer was not happy about the changes being made which means that he did not want the changes to be made. Considering by Atlus's history, their other games such as Persona 5, Catherine, Dragon's Crown, Odin's Sphere, and Shin Megami Tensei were not censored (or even if they are, not the same degree as TMS). As a result, it is entirely plausible that Nintendo, specically NoA was the culprit for TMS's censorship.

And then, we look at Dragon Quest XI S which has a Teen rating, the same rating as TMS. Some may argue that the reason why TMS had its content altered was to coincide with the Teen rating. However, we see a game like DQ XIS that has arguably more sexual themes, still retain the same rating.

All in all, all signs points towards Nintendo having a hand in censorship. The changes made in the localization are completely asinine as the things that were changed were completely trivial. Even worse, some story content got completely butchered in the process, destroying the original artistic intent. The designer was not pleased as a result of this, meaning that this was not the outcome he wanted. There is no evidence that points towards Atlus being the one doing the censoring as they would've done so with their other games and TMS is a crossover with Fire Emblem, one of Nintendo's IPs. Speaking of Fire Emblem, Fates' localization also got extremely butchered. Phrases are completely changed and somethings outright removed, suggesting poor translation. The petting feature was completely removed, as well. And that game is 100% on Nintendo because FE is a 1st party IP. So again, there is way more evidence that points towards Nintendo (of America).

So, do you have as much evidence that suggests the opposite?

 

[theclaw135]

My evidence is that comparing to other games is circumstantial.

Reading the back of the TMS box more closely, it claims that Fire Emblem is co-owned in an unspecified way with Intelligent Systems.

 

[Hexa]

I wonder if nintendo can backtrack their stance about this game and delay it if they see too many complaints about that.
-After seeing them asking the developers of gal gun 2 to bring their game on the system
-NOA has autorized Senran Kagura refle in USA,
-A deal with Nintendo Europe and NIS for an exclusive physical version of Snk heroines in Europe and now all their first party have japanese voices directly in physical version without the need to download them.
This one is really in a weird spot.

I guess this will tell a lot about this if one day we have a port of Xenoblade Chronicles X uncensored on the switch.

I don't think, or at least hope, that this has to do with ideology at this point more so than them just being really cheap since the game bombed pretty badly even by Wii U standards originally and so they probably have really low expectations for the Switch port. Strangely enough, since the game never got an English dub, they actually redid parts in Japanese for the English version so a Japanese version of the censored version already exists, but an English version of the uncensored version does not. Hence, if they want to be as cheap about it and only have one global version, it'd be cheaper to have it be the censored version, and thus they're doing with that. I think the low expectations is basically a self fulfilling prophecy if that is the case, in that if they put in more effort while I doubt it would ever be really successful, I think it would be more profitable ultimately than half assing it as they're doing now, but I suppose Nintendo came to a different conclusion.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

My evidence is that comparing to other games is circumstantial.

So you don't have evidence then. Claiming that my evidence is circumstantial is nothing more than lazy hand-waving dismissal.

If the games are made by the same developer (Atlus), but only the localization of one game is getting a lot of flak for censorship, then that's no coincidence. The 1st party IP involved in the crossover game, Fire Emblem, has had a history of censorship, i.e. TMS was not the first time that a Fire Emblem, full-on or crossover, game has been censored (Fates). In fact, the nature of the censorship of both Fates and TMS are of the same vein. And since Atlus had zero involvement with Fates, Nintendo is the likelier culprit. If there is smoke, there is fire.

Reading the back of the TMS box more closely, it claims that Fire Emblem is co-owned in an unspecified way with Intelligent Systems.

And who is the publisher, and thus the entity in charge, of the Fire Emblem series? Nintendo. "Circumstantial" applies more perfectly to your arguments such as this one, especially since the supposed "co-ownership" details are unspecified.

Meanwhile, if I were to look at the Wikipedia page, it states the Intelligent Systems is the developer while Nintendo is the publisher. The publisher is the one who is in charge of the distribution of the franchise's games, i.e. Nintendo has the last call.

I can see why you keep avoiding directly responding to my rebuttals because your counterarguments are extremely weak under scrutiny.

 

[Senhua]

I guess this will tell a lot about this if one day we have a port of Xenoblade Chronicles X uncensored on the switch.

If NCL still using the same development method for their first party games (1 global build) then 100% XBCX and Fatal Frame 5 will be based from western localized version too.

 

[DR2K]

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

I like anime tho.

 

[The Chairman]

I like anime tho.

He likes anime too but he hates these sexualized anime girls just like you!!

And that's the thing, real pedophiles despise sexualized anime girls because they don't look like real sexualized children so they develop this involuntary reaction of hating and trying to ban these cartoons.

This one tried to ban manga that sexualized girls and he also turned out to be a real pedo.

And there is a lot of cases like this, that's why when i see a grown ass man like you defending these sexualized cartoons this passionately i start to wonder.

 

[theclaw135]

So you don't have evidence then. Claiming that my evidence is circumstantial is nothing more than lazy hand-waving dismissal.

If the games are made by the same developer (Atlus), but only the localization of one game is getting a lot of flak for censorship, then that's no coincidence. The 1st party IP involved in the crossover game, Fire Emblem, has had a history of censorship, i.e. TMS was not the first time that a Fire Emblem, full-on or crossover, game has been censored (Fates). In fact, the nature of the censorship of both Fates and TMS are of the same vein. And since Atlus had zero involvement with Fates, Nintendo is the likelier culprit. If there is smoke, there is fire.


And who is the publisher, and thus the entity in charge, of the Fire Emblem series? Nintendo. "Circumstantial" applies more perfectly to your arguments such as this one, especially since the supposed "co-ownership" details are unspecified.

Meanwhile, if I were to look at the Wikipedia page, it states the Intelligent Systems is the developer while Nintendo is the publisher. The publisher is the one who is in charge of the distribution of the franchise's games, i.e. Nintendo has the last call.

I can see why you keep avoiding directly responding to my rebuttals because your counterarguments are extremely weak under scrutiny.

A direct rebuttal? Let me ask then. Do you, or do you not, have a statement on the record from any entity directly involved with game production that Nintendo either requested or had a hand in creating the censorship (as in wrote/drew/programmed the alterations)?

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Nintendo apologizes for Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore content confusion, offers refunds

Nintendo has issued an apology for consumer confusion surrounding the content within the upcoming enhanced port of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE for Nintendo

nintendowire.com

 

[Carna]

Nintendo apologizes for Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore content confusion, offers refunds

Nintendo has issued an apology for consumer confusion surrounding the content within the upcoming enhanced port of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE for Nintendo

nintendowire.com

Cool, are you going to uncensor the game now?

 

[Dada55000]

A direct rebuttal? Let me ask then. Do you, or do you not, have a statement on the record from any entity directly involved with game production that Nintendo either requested or had a hand in creating the censorship (as in wrote/drew/programmed the alterations)?

lol, that's not a 'rebuttal', you didn't respond to anything written and then shat out a demand that if not met somehow, in your mind only, translates to you being right

you have been a shown both a pattern of this behaviour with prior games, and displeasure over changes forced onto this specific one by the lead dev, they've made a convincing case showing how NoA affects these games
you can barely barf up a sentence, with the contents of "nuh-uh, Nintendo didn't do that" in response

which one of you do you think comes across rational with an argument based on available evidence, and which one of you looks like an asshurt fanboy?

 

[lyan]

I like anime tho.

Well people should get their eyes checked if they think "anime teenagers" look anything remotely close to real life children (or human).

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Cool, are you going to uncensor the game now?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Well people should get their eyes checked if they think "anime teenagers" look anything remotely close to real life children (or human).

He was trolling,

 

[The Mad Draklor]

A direct rebuttal? Let me ask then. Do you, or do you not, have a statement on the record from any entity directly involved with game production that Nintendo either requested or had a hand in creating the censorship (as in wrote/drew/programmed the alterations)?

So you do not have any evidence that counters mine. Good to know. If you want to put up an effective counterargument, then you need to have the receipts. Saying that my evidence is circumstantial is not evidence. That is a claim and a claim that you have failed to prove right. It also very telling that not once have you actually directly addressed my points. You just shift to another topic as soon as you see that your previous "argument" starts sinking.

 

[theclaw135]

So you do not have any evidence that counters mine. Good to know. If you want to put up an effective counterargument, then you need to have the receipts. Saying that my evidence is circumstantial is not evidence. That is a claim and a claim that you have failed to prove right. It also very telling that not once have you actually directly addressed my points. You just shift to another topic as soon as you see that your previous "argument" starts sinking.

Very well, I shall admit defeat. I have no further evidence.
I do not agree what occurred to the game in question.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Very well, I shall admit defeat. I have no further evidence.

And thus, I reject your claim wholesale as "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" (Hitchen's Razor) and yet, I already exceeded the minimum amount of effort put into my claims.

I do not agree what occurred to the game in question.

It's not that you disagree. You're just denying the evidence that contradicts your assertion. And because you have no evidence that supports your assertion, this is not a matter of opinion.

 

[Danjin44]

I'm still buying it because I just really loved the game but still such a shame both Nintendo and Atlus do this to this very, very underrated game.

 

[Godzilla Emu]

This thread convinced me to finally get off of my ass and rip my Wii U disc and apply the uncensor patch from GBAtemp.

I love this forum.

It's finally time to bump it up on my backlog of games to play, I think.

 

[theclaw135]

And thus, I reject your claim wholesale as "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" (Hitchen's Razor) and yet, I already exceeded the minimum amount of effort put into my claims.


It's not that you disagree. You're just denying the evidence that contradicts your assertion. And because you have no evidence that supports your assertion, this is not a matter of opinion.

Pardon the misunderstanding there. I won't deny your evidence. It is more coherent and presents a compelling case.

I'm disagreeing in the sense I believe reasonable doubt remains. A pattern of Nintendo censoring other games doesn't prove wholesale that they censored this game.

 

[kunonabi]

Pardon the misunderstanding there. I won't deny your evidence. It is more coherent and presents a compelling case.

I'm disagreeing in the sense I believe reasonable doubt remains. A pattern of Nintendo censoring other games doesn't prove wholesale that they censored this game.

Nintendo was the publisher that's the only proof you need. They have to give permission and funding for anything being changed. There is literally no other entitity that could be responsible.

 

[Afro Republican]

Remember when people were overhyping this game for years before it came out and said it would save the Wii U?

Remember when people said this was the crossover they were waiting for and would make all their dreams come true like a limp orgasm after a hangover?

Remember when people though it would get amazing sales and over 95 on MC?

Guess looks like you got screwed over two times now. Whoops?

 

[Danjin44]

Remember when people were overhyping this game for years before it came out and said it would save the Wii U?

Remember when people said this was the crossover they were waiting for and would make all their dreams come true like a limp orgasm after a hangover?

Remember when people though it would get amazing sales and over 95 on MC?

Guess looks like you got screwed over two times now. Whoops?

Or you could actually try to play it and see it pretty damn good game, but I'm guessing you are here just to post on the topic you know nothing about and have no interest in it.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Pardon the misunderstanding there. I won't deny your evidence. It is more coherent and presents a compelling case.

I'm disagreeing in the sense I believe reasonable doubt remains. A pattern of Nintendo censoring other games doesn't prove wholesale that they censored this game.

Nintendo has had a history of censoring Fire Emblem games and guess what Nintendo IP is involved in TMS? Fire Emblem. So no, it's not just a matter of Nintendo censoring other games.

Developers can't just release their games on Nintendo platforms. Nintendo has to give them permission to do so even if Nintendo isn't the publisher. And considering that Nintendo is the one that is in charge of the Switch (and Wii U last gen) and is the publisher for TMS, all signs point towards Nintendo being the culprit.

In addition, Intelligent Systems did not co-develop TMS with Atlus, so Atlus was the only developer involved. And this goes back to my evidence where Atlus did not censor their other games, so Atlus is out of the equation. And since Intelligent Systems did not develop TMS, they are out of the picture, too, and that doesn't matter what you read on the back of the TMS case. So who is left? Nintendo. At this point, there is no reasonable doubt. There's too much evidence where Nintendo keeps popping up.

 

[Danjin44]

To those people who think SMT X FE would have turned out better, I would argue it would turned out waaay more disappointing game. Because FE series would be involved the game's rating still needs to be "T" so lots of demons would have been cut off or they would take out all demons all together and just like most crossover games the story would be no where near as good as mainline SMT or FE. I personally happy they decided to make it own original game and combining some mechanics from FE with press turn combat system.

 

[theclaw135]

Nintendo has had a history of censoring Fire Emblem games and guess what Nintendo IP is involved in TMS? Fire Emblem. So no, it's not just a matter of Nintendo censoring other games.

Developers can't just release their games on Nintendo platforms. Nintendo has to give them permission to do so even if Nintendo isn't the publisher. And considering that Nintendo is the one that is in charge of the Switch (and Wii U last gen) and is the publisher for TMS, all signs point towards Nintendo being the culprit.

In addition, Intelligent Systems did not co-develop TMS with Atlus, so Atlus was the only developer involved. And this goes back to my evidence where Atlus did not censor their other games, so Atlus is out of the equation. And since Intelligent Systems did not develop TMS, they are out of the picture, too, and that doesn't matter what you read on the back of the TMS case. So who is left? Nintendo. At this point, there is no reasonable doubt. There's too much evidence where Nintendo keeps popping up.

Excellent points. Looking at it that way makes my assertion irrelevant to start with.

Even if Atlus had performed the actual act of censoring, Nintendo as well as Intelligent Systems (the TMS case confirms the game features content they own) would be complicit for going along with it. Nothing changes in the end product.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

To those people who think SMT X FE would have turned out better, I would argue it would turned out waaay more disappointing game. Because FE series would be involved the game's rating still needs to be "T" so lots of demons would have been cut off or they would take out all demons all together and just like most crossover games the story would be no where near as good as mainline SMT or FE. I personally happy they decided to make it own original game and combining some mechanics from FE with press turn combat system.

I wanted a rated T Soul Hackers myself.

 

[FMXVII]

Y'know, I really couldn't give a fig [leaf] about what specifically has been censored.

But censorship is mostly an ugly thing.

If it isn't children being exploited, or representative of such, then it is a dealbreaker.

This looks like adult titties getting shadow nerfed, and swimsuits getting buraka'd (sic).

This seems really, really lame, and a great way to not sell to Otaku and Weeaboos I mean Pure Japanese Gamers I mean Purests... who are the target audience.

Ass and titties are great things - even in 2D.

 

[brap]

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

 

[petran79]

This thread convinced me to finally get off of my ass and rip my Wii U disc and apply the uncensor patch from GBAtemp.

I love this forum.

It's finally time to bump it up on my backlog of games to play, I think.

Uncensor version is also playable on Cemu now.

 

[MagnesG]

Uncensor version is also playable on Cemu now.

There's no easy way to play that thing unless pirated.

 

[brap]

There's no easy way to play that thing unless pirated.

You either pirate or support censorshit.

 

[petran79]

There's no easy way to play that thing unless pirated.

One can buy the Japanese Wii U version and play that version instead.

 

[MagnesG]

One can buy the Japanese Wii U version and play that version instead.

I Intend to buy the Switch and wait for the inevitable uncensored mods.

 

[Godzilla Emu]

Agreed.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

wtf w#ite pro controller

 

[Hecaton117]

The reason why people use the "localization" argument is because they agree with the changes and want to make it seem like it's something that the majority of the audience that will be purchasing the game actually want changed.

You know, like back in the day when you had outraged Christians/Catholics raging about blood, sex and religious imagery in games.

When companies made changes to their games apparently they were doing it because those outraged people were the majority of their audience? No, that's not it.

This "localization" is done purely for the attempted appeasement of those morally outraged elements. They are not targeted at the people who are actually purchasing the game.

It's like someone being offended at the sight of blood in games, and when a game gets its blood/gore removed and people complain they retort with "It's just localization guys! Stop complaining! This is what the audience wants! They don't like over-gorification!".

The Russia example I gave earlier completely dismantles this. Absolutely no one who's using the "localization" argument now in that thread would dare to use it in that hypothetical scenario. It's a completely disingenuous argument.