You jest! But, seriously, this is industry leading stuff if they actually get it to work, so color me reserved.
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You jest! But, seriously, this is industry leading stuff if they actually get it to work, so color me reserved.
Schnozberry
Member
I was thinking on thunberbolt too. But is probably a custom solution based on that (or USB for that matter).
Prevolition
Member
Gamepad streaming was industry leading, was it not?
What about carts. You like carts, yes?
Cool. I still think it's a stretch to envision this significantly improving the lag/latency dilemma of cloud gaming. Too many what ifs for a large shared user base. Then again, Nintendo games don't exactly push the limits of graphics and processing, so it could be easier to make it work in the cloud.
TheSlySoul
Member
They patented a device without a disc drive. So we are getting carts!
Yes, it very much was (and still is) but it was also handled in collaboration with Broadcom, a prominent company and R&D in the field.
Schnozberry
Member
If the Cloud is used properly in this case, you may be getting P2P downloads of games.
No, seriously
At least, it seems to fit with the patent being about cloud gaming devices, I suppose.
Damn right.
I for one cannot wait for the reaction to one of the stations being an 8x i7, 4x SLI Titan X set-up. All for the affordable price of 10,000$.
Wii(mote) announce thread was gold. That Wiimote sure threw everybody for a loop.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
If something pushed the limits of graphics, it'd likely require serious BW. Nintendo's solution can help with the latency, though, and there it could be clearly better than MS' solution.
On an unrelated note:
Zakuuu! Why didn't cmapcom bother to uprez you, Zakuuu! That godly music, that clever spiel, that annoying wiimote-pointed-at-the-gamepad control.
Whoa, this is some really interesting stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this Supplemental Processing Unit is somewhat similar to an external GPU that doubles as a cloud computing server for other NX owners when not in use, right? Wouldn't this mean that if Nintendo can convince 5 million people to keep their SPU plugged in most of the time, they'd essentially have the largest cloud computing platform on the market? For reference, Amazon Web Services operated 1.4 M servers as of Dec 2014, and have 10 times the capacity of the next 14 top cloud compute providers combined.
Prevolition
Member
Ooh, didn't know that. So some believe this is completely NERD by itself? I originally had the impression the cloud R&D was separate from the Wii U successor R&D.
To the experts here, any additional light to be shed on the old August patents by the information gleaned from these new patents?
Lots of info referencing dummy terminals, processing schemes using sound to represent data, variable power operating modes and other Nintendo weird stuff:
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/ninten...-game-chat-low-power-operating-modes-and-more
(the actual abstracts are at the bottom of the page of that link)
Lots of info referencing dummy terminals, processing schemes using sound to represent data, variable power operating modes and other Nintendo weird stuff:
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/ninten...-game-chat-low-power-operating-modes-and-more
(the actual abstracts are at the bottom of the page of that link)
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
It sounds like you'll be able to buy hardware to avoid relying on cloud computing too heavily. Perhaps there could be some games that depend on it, but it sounds like you'll be able to avoid the problems of connectivity by buying your own. I would guess any base product would be a minimum to be competitive (say, running those 1080p PS4/900p X1 games at 720p), and this extra computing could help bump that up to beyond. Likewise, I'd guess buying one part is going to be cheaper than a current console, while buying both would be more expensive (say...$250-$300 vs. $350-$400 total). An incentive program for offering your supplemental device up to other users while not in use could help get back those extra costs with Nintendo discounts.
Then again, since cloud computing likely wouldn't be able to offer the same results as a local solution, perhaps the systems are more divided than that and you'll have games that require the supplemental local device as well as cloud computing to run best.
I guess we'll find out if this patent has any relevance in the next 6 months.
Ok new concern: This is gonna be way too complicated for the average person who went out to buy the Wii in droves. Hopefully they can market the NX better than the Wii U.
I totally get that reference!
Schnozberry
Member
If you need to spend an additional several hundred dollars on top of an existing console, this idea is DOA. It would have to be a box that interfaces with the NX Handheld to improve performance for use on the TV, that also affords the benefits of whatever Nintendo's cloud features are. Then you could sell them in an attractive bundle that allows you to take your games on the go, and then pop them into your device at home and continue where you left off on your TV with enhanced graphics and access to more comfortable controls.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
Understanding how tech works is not what Nintendo needs to explain. They just need to communicate that your mobile device will transfer your game through this portal to your game console when you get home, a video showing this happen in real world situations would be effective. Simply showing that "this just works" would be good enough for the consumer.
The service sharing stuff can be something handled differently.
I think they can. They don't need to explain the technicalities in the advertising. They just need to get across a few points.
If you buy thing A you can play portable games.
If you buy thing B and plug it into thing A you get "more powerful graphics" and a TV console experience.
If you go online with thing B and share its power we give you free stuff.
They need to keep it simple, play up the "More Power" angle, and play up the rewards for sharing that power angle. Anybody should be able to wrap their mind around that.
JumpCancel
Banned
Sammy Samusu
Member
Looks like FF7R is coming to NX after all.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
I was writing with the assumption that this is a handheld + home console + supplementary device. If there is a handheld that is the lead platform and then just a supplementary device that turns it into a home console, then that would simplify things. I wonder if this supplementary device could function on its own as a home console, but then that would position the portable as serving the supplementary role, which wouldn't make sense to me.
I'm not any more knowledgeable than anyone else who just read the OP and decided to comment. We'll see how/if Nintendo implements this. Regardless, they better test those initial NX reveal Directs and/or press conferences on a lot of eyes before they go public with them because a clear and effective unveiling that strikes the right tone is extremely important (see: Wii U, Xbox One, PS4).
Fourth Storm
Member
A couple things:
1) I can't imagine they'd require users who want a console experience to buy a handheld. The SCD needs to work independently of another device. Unless they really want to release a $99 console and then SCD is another $199 add on or something.
2) I don't see how the handheld could be used as a Gamepad as people are thinking, since you need a snug high speed connection to share computing resources. What happens if a wire gets jostled? "GPU disconnected?" I'd also imagine a longish wire between handheld and SCD would introduce additional latency not found on a motherboard, but I'm not sure.
1) I can't imagine they'd require users who want a console experience to buy a handheld. The SCD needs to work independently of another device. Unless they really want to release a $99 console and then SCD is another $199 add on or something.
2) I don't see how the handheld could be used as a Gamepad as people are thinking, since you need a snug high speed connection to share computing resources. What happens if a wire gets jostled? "GPU disconnected?" I'd also imagine a longish wire between handheld and SCD would introduce additional latency not found on a motherboard, but I'm not sure.
Pokemaniac
Member
This device should be able to get much lower latency than that in the local scenario, since it haa a direct wired connection to the system.
Cloud computing in general doesn't really make the system more powerful in the conventional sense. It is not an extension of the processors, but rather a way to distribute computing across multiple machines. While latency between nodes is definitely an issue, a good cloud design will take that into account and minimize how much that matters.
Like everything, it's a tradeoff. The most important thing to understand is that you can't just throw the Power of the Cloud at just any old problem and automatically expect good results.
James Scott
Banned
Pokemaniac
Member
They also do everywhere else. NNID didn't go away. It just became one of the services that operates under the umbrella of Nintendo Account.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
I think Nintendo struck gold with the amazing wireless technology in the Wii U Gamepad, using this or something even more improved could fix the issue you are talking about. Remember that the Wii U was able to process separate graphics to the Gamepad independently, they could possibly stream the portable NX through the SCU to the TV with the added processing power applied on pass through.I know, I know but we are trying to figure things out.
Add the home console version of NX at the end of the SCU and it can act as a save transfer to pick where you left off from the mobile game version to the console version while the user just inserts the Gamecard from NX Portable to NX Console.
I can see why Nintendo is going to have multiple form choices.
NPD November 2016 will probably only list "NX Platform" and not a specific version since they would all have the same games,thus the PR would say the NX is #1 based on overall sales. Interesting.....
Pokemaniac
Member
From how they're describing this, you should think of it less as an N64 expansion pack or SuperFX chip, and more like a cloud node that you can set up in your home. If this is something that you can share with other users, I wouldn't expect them to use it for terribly latency sensitive stuff.
This is very interesting info. Couple thoughts:
- Could an nx handled be a supplemental device that adds power to the nx console? I like the idea of my 3ds being used to improve performance of my Wii U, for example.
- One thing to add about the potential for a wireless supplemental device Iocally. I came across WiGig technology recently, which allows you to stream HD feeds (among other things) to monitors wirelessly at 7 Gbit/s (see here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Gigabit_Alliance). Only works in the same room / short range. I wonder if something like this could be used for low latency augmentation of a home console from a handheld device.
- Could an nx handled be a supplemental device that adds power to the nx console? I like the idea of my 3ds being used to improve performance of my Wii U, for example.
- One thing to add about the potential for a wireless supplemental device Iocally. I came across WiGig technology recently, which allows you to stream HD feeds (among other things) to monitors wirelessly at 7 Gbit/s (see here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Gigabit_Alliance). Only works in the same room / short range. I wonder if something like this could be used for low latency augmentation of a home console from a handheld device.
Zambayoshi
Member
My theory:
Supplemental Computing Device = Handheld
Console = Console/Docking Station for Handheld
To make it cost effective Nintendo will sell the handheld and docking station as a bundle, maybe $399 or so. You may be able to buy the handheld or the docking station separately.
The games for the NX will be scalable in much the same way as you have PC games with low/medium/high settings and different resolutions.
Handheld will run the games on the lowest setting at lowest resolution.
Console will run the games at a high resolution but possibly low/medium settings.
Console + Handheld combined will run high resolution with high settings.
The beauty of it is that you can either one of the two components and play games on it, or you can combine them to get powerful console, portable handheld.
I also think that if you buy the game for handheld, you don't need to buy it again if you combine the handheld with the console. The console won't have a disc drive, so you need to buy digitally if you don't have the handheld. If you have the handheld, you can download the high setting assets to the console, which will be accessed when playing on the combined system.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents
Not sure to what extent the cloud computing is going to figure into things.
vagabondarts
Member
This is all so fascinating. I'm genuinely not sure how this will work but I'm excited to find out.
It reminds me of when we were getting rumors of parallax barriers before Wii came out and patent talk for other Nintendo systems.
This sounds great! Wonder how much games will cost?
It reminds me of when we were getting rumors of parallax barriers before Wii came out and patent talk for other Nintendo systems.
My theory:
Supplemental Computing Device = Handheld
Console = Console/Docking Station for Handheld
To make it cost effective Nintendo will sell the handheld and docking station as a bundle, maybe $399 or so. You may be able to buy the handheld or the docking station separately.
The games for the NX will be scalable in much the same way as you have PC games with low/medium/high settings and different resolutions.
Handheld will run the games on the lowest setting at lowest resolution.
Console will run the games at a high resolution but possibly low/medium settings.
Console + Handheld combined will run high resolution with high settings.
The beauty of it is that you can either one of the two components and play games on it, or you can combine them to get powerful console, portable handheld.
I also think that if you buy the game for handheld, you don't need to buy it again if you combine the handheld with the console. The console won't have a disc drive, so you need to buy digitally if you don't have the handheld. If you have the handheld, you can download the high setting assets to the console, which will be accessed when playing on the combined system.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents
Not sure to what extent the cloud computing is going to figure into things.
This sounds great! Wonder how much games will cost?
All very exciting! I have faith.
Wouldn't it make more sense to do the reverse? You buy the portable, that you also can plug into a TV like the Playstation TV and you buy the supplement (the actual console) to give it the power of an actual console and not just upscaled portable graphics.
They're gonna want to have the handheld cost less than the main system, at any point, although I could see them using the same basic hardware for the handheld and the console for cheap prices and then selling the extra bit for the console for the sexy graphics.
It's the typical Nintendo way, they'd allow you to use the NX-Home to play the same portable games on TV and with the NXtra you'd get true console capabilities and at the same time you wouldn't be able to use the NX-Portable with the NXtra because reasons. That's very Nintendo-like :lol
Edit: Then again it makes sense that they wouldn't want to devalue the console, and it would probably need some high-speed ports to facilitate the expansion unit lest there be severe bottlenecks.
I love this. I hope Nintendo does something like the ideas in this thread, but also hope they are making sure they produce tons of games for this thing at launch. If they only have to produce 1 game that would work on their handheld / console with low / high settings vs 2 games (1 for each system), that'd be huge for the amount of games they could release per year. Mario Kart 9 working on the console + handheld would be awesome.
My theory:
Supplemental Computing Device = Handheld
Console = Console/Docking Station for Handheld
To make it cost effective Nintendo will sell the handheld and docking station as a bundle, maybe $399 or so. You may be able to buy the handheld or the docking station separately.
The games for the NX will be scalable in much the same way as you have PC games with low/medium/high settings and different resolutions.
Handheld will run the games on the lowest setting at lowest resolution.
Console will run the games at a high resolution but possibly low/medium settings.
Console + Handheld combined will run high resolution with high settings.
The beauty of it is that you can either one of the two components and play games on it, or you can combine them to get powerful console, portable handheld.
I also think that if you buy the game for handheld, you don't need to buy it again if you combine the handheld with the console. The console won't have a disc drive, so you need to buy digitally if you don't have the handheld. If you have the handheld, you can download the high setting assets to the console, which will be accessed when playing on the combined system.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents
Not sure to what extent the cloud computing is going to figure into things.
Doesn't make sense though. In one of those pictures (figure3) they talk about sharing your supplemental devices power with other people. Are these handhelds going to be constantly plugged in and connected? Seems like something you would leave idle and allow people to use resources. Doesn't really sound like a handheld to me. It makes more sense to me for the stationary device (console) that is always powered, and always connected to be what they are sharing resources from... I'm very confused.... Unless the console = handheld, and the supplemental device is actually a dock that is always connected.
Agent Unknown
Member
So far based on this patent it looks like Jeremy Parish nailed it in this October article where, based on both Nintendo's long history of imitating certain Apple design sensibilities and NX rumors, he predicted the NX would mimic the concept of Apple's PowerBook Duo laptop from the early '90s which used a home docking station to enable additional features (except based on this, the dock would also have cloud based features):
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/nintendos-nx-another-verse-in-the-companys-love-song-to-apple
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/nintendos-nx-another-verse-in-the-companys-love-song-to-apple