Support NeoGAF

[Sandfox]

Well they had the same ability for WiiU and again went for a gimped design. For them, having backward compatibility built into hardware was more important then overal console performance.
I can't see how they could produce a machine like the PS4 and still maintain hardware BC.

The Wii U's power was a design choice and they could very well ditch BC like the rest of the market or come up with another solution if they really want it.

 

[JABEE]

The biggest mistake Nintendo has made in recent years was not expanding during the height of Wii's success. If they had scaled up their development capabilities back then they could have avoided the software droughts that have damaged 3DS and Wii U, instead they kept everything in the warchest and their teams just couldn't make the games quick enough.

Combined with the 'it's ready when it's ready' mantra it ended up being a disaster. Nintendo as a company is incredibly conservative and it's unlikely that they would have done too much different with another CEO, the board would be the same old farts, but certainly Iwata has to accept some responsibility. He has acknowledged the software drought issue countless times but 4 console launches later and it's still happening. They're doing the expansion now but it's coming far too late to save the Wii U.

Nintendo let the Wii brand wither on the vine. They just sat there and waited for the Wii to become irrelevant. Release new hardware when the Wii is coming down, not when it has been dead for close to 18 months.

That is one thing Pachter was 100% right about. The next Wii was a 2010/2011 product, not a 2012 product. They completely lost any momentum and brand awareness they had. They just let it stagnate and fall apart.

 

[Rehynn]

I can't see how they could produce a machine like the PS4 and still maintain hardware BC.

And the goalpost has been moved.

 

[cyberheater]

Neither can Sony or MS, so what's your point?

The point is that Nintendo feel that BC is very important. If they want to compete at a hardware level with the big boys. They will be forced to drop hardware BC. I can't see them doing that.

 

[Tookay]

It's making money and selling well; ergo it's a success as far as an electronics company is concerned.

According to what rubric? That of a poster with little understanding of how investors and companies desire growth in their core markets?

 

[Savitar]

It might help if Nintendo promoted and hyped titles, half the time you learn about a game coming out shortly before release. Even then it's subdued compared to other games out there.

 

[Griss]

We going to see the Gamepad dropped and made optional now?

I think this is actually LESS likely now. The R&D / development money and time required to do it and relaunch the Wii U is far better spent on the next handheld and home console, which is where almost all of their energies should be focussed from now on.

Things in already announced or far along in development for 3DS and Wii U stay that way, everything else needs to be focussed on future systems.

 

[Nibel]

Iwata on top or not won't change the current situation - they are stuck with the Wii U for now, and he should finish what he started

The company itself needs to rethink its philosophy and adapt to the modern times though. We live in much more transparent times where every step is being observed by a huge audience, and no mistake is overseen. Nintendo has to accept that despite generating a good amount of cash year for year and having probably the best gaming portfolio they still have to play nice with the others in the industry. They need to play nice with their customers and should take a different approach than the "here is what we give you! Surprise motherfucker!" one.

I hope we'll see some progress with the 3DS successor which should be the next big hardware Nintendo is currently preparing. Accept your role as a big global company, Nintendo

 

[pulga]

Love Nintendo dearly, but it's time for Iwata to pack up his things.

Absolute shambles.

 

[Mpl90]

I think the reality is that everyone involved with Nintendo and at Nintendo, including Iwata himself, are all extremely frustrated. The fans are frustrated with how the WiiU ecosystem has turned out, the investors are frustrated at the poor performance continuing, partner developers are frustrated that their games are can't sell to their full potential on the WiiU because of the situation, Nintendo staff are frustrated that they don't seem to have a great solution to any of this, etc.

It's just one big shitty situation. Iwata resigning at this point would probably feel like some sort of relief that "change is coming", but it doesn't guarantee it, nor does it put Nintendo in a better situation at all. So yeah, it's really tough to see a "good" solution right now.

I want changes as well, but it's Nintendo culture that needs changes. Not in the sense of completely forgetting who they are, but in the sense of becoming more ooen to the world. Like, completely. I'm anxious, and I'd like to help them in some way too, like probably many Nintendo fans want...but how? I just can stay here and only hope things changes much, much more than the current changes. I know this is irrational, but I'd love to find a way to help them in improving, any. To help them understand they can't stay in their bubble, they need to look at both West and East as two big and important markets, not just looking Japan and thinking "Yuk, this'll do it in the West as well!!! Genius!", there can be moves to do even in the mid-term and not just in the long term. Seriously, I want to help them massively...but they won't ever hear me, obviously, or any other Nintendo fan posting on messageboards. If only there were a way...I can't stand seeing them in this state. I want to help them, like, now.

Spoiler

Aaand probably I'm just as disappointed as Aquamarine, so I'm saying irrational things. It'll pass, it'll pass...

 

[cyberheater]

And is Nintendo really paying retailers to keep floor space for the WiiU?

 

[Jintor]

I want to see a sequel to Game Over: How Nintendo Conquered the World etc. focused on the N64, Gamecube, Wii and Wii U years. That'd be goddamn fascinating.

 

[Majmun]

9mln WIi U forecast was crazy anyway.

The console is in real trouble.

 

[spekkeh]

Wut? Of course they have the ability. Or did you mean 'Can'?

Also anyone calling for Iwata's head simply doesn't understand the world of big, publicly traded corporations. It would be enormously damaging to step down right now.

Let's not forget Iwata is responsible for dragging Nintendo back into relevancy after the GC dark days. He might not have been responsible for the DS but he is responsible for steering that ship into enomrmous profits. He is responsible for Wii and 3DS l, which have made Nintendo buckets if money.

You don't sack this guy after one failed concept. It's a very Western thing to immediately fire everyone as soon as one thing goes awry, and it usually doesn't lead to good things. It would be irresponsible at this point to disrupt the company like that and fire somebody who has brought the company success on the whole. I'm not sticking up for the guy because I like him or because I'm defending WiiU - I dont particular like him and WiiU has been a failure of Iwata's doing - I'm just trying to be logical.

In short, he probably has another year or so of good will to get things right.


Edit: and FWIW, I would like to see him step down and for some fresh ideas at the top. But then I'm not a shareholder

He closed western offices and consolidated everything into Japan. Now the Wii U (and 3DS) is failing because of severely underperforming in the west. 1+1 = 3.

 

[cyberheater]

9mln WIi U forecast was crazy anyway.

The console is in real trouble.

No. The console is dead.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

66M in software sales across 40M units is pretty damning.

 

[L Thammy]

The Wii U was backwards compatible with the Wii, one of the best selling consoles ever.
Backwards compatibility with the Wii U will probably not seem like such a selling point.

Nintendo could always release Definitive Editions or a PlayStation Now type service to sell Wii U games on whatever system they make next.

 

[The_Lump]

According to what rubric? That of a poster with little understanding of how investors and companies desire growth in their core markets?

So by that logic, the entire last generation wad a failure because nothing outsold PS2?

I think you're missing my point. I'm simply replying to someone who said Iwata is responsible for at least 2 failed products. I font think he is.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Also of note: If the current estimates for the 3DS hold, the system will of sold 13 million units less than Nintendo expected to be at by the end of March (They've missed their 18 million estimate they set every year since launch). This sum is now almost greater than total annual sales, and this was the last year with a healthy string of high profile releases. 2014 is comparatively dry and will see a heavy dip downward.

 

[Sinfamy]

Sony has been doing better with a change in leadership (PlayStation), I hope Nintendo follows suit. Microsoft already has.

 

[King Beyond the wall]

The wiiu needs a price cut and I think it will do well. £250 for a machine which is about as powerful as a PS3 which you can buy for as low as £120 (12gb model) is ridiculous on Nintendo's part. Either way il buy one when the new zelda is released on it.

 

[liger05]

And is Nintendo really paying retailers to keep floor space for the WiiU?

Wouldn’t be a surprise would it. How long do retailers keep stocking a product that doesn’t sell?

At this point in time is it even worth continuing with a Zelda Wii U title? Move this to a future platform as a launch title.

 

[Exterminieren]

It's making money and selling well; ergo it's a success as far as an electronics company is concerned.

It's missing every target that the company sets for it, software sales are through the floor, it's down YOY, it was the source of huge losses earlier on in life, and the main hardware gimmick is such a busted flush that Nintendo have taken it out of the latest revision. 3DS isn't a disaster any more, but it's repeatedly failed as a concept.

 

[confuziz]

So the real question is: Will the Wii U even surpass Gamecube's sales at this point?

 

[ponpo]

Any other japangaf members want to go to Kyoto this weekend and take over Nintendo from Iwata the Dictator in a military style coup?

 

[SargerusBR]

Only a Pokemon MMO can save Nintendo now.

 

[Azure J]

Surely this doesn't come as a surprise? Nintendo was doing less than 50k a month in the US at some point. With the holiday sales they could only have reached slightly over a million in their biggest market.

The surprise wasn't in the revision happening, anyone with a decent memory following the threads this year knew that 9 million was as pie in the sky as it got. It's all because of both how long they stuck to this number only to REALLY lowball this deep into the game and my own inability to resolve the new estimate. The 2.8 million number was particularly jarring because I actually had to take a moment to myself and think whether or not they had already sold 2.8 million Wii U's worldwide.

 

[KAP151]

WiiU has been a unmitigated disaster. Worldwide, it has set them back further than any of the sales numbers show. Third parties want nothing to do with the system. It was bad in the N64/GC days, but they would give their right nut to have that sort of support now. How the hell (apart form record breaking money hats which we all know wont happen) will they ever get them back? Its is barely afloat in America and just holding on for breath in Japan. Europe/Australia? Dead as the dodo. The name is mud and neither retailers nor consumers want a bar of it.

Coming off a barren tail end of the Wii and now we are well into a year of WiiU and they still haven't captured the mainstream by any means, hel even the hardcore 'ill buy anything Nintendo' crowd hasnt bought in. That says it all.

That is something you can not come back from. Someone has to be responsible. If Iwata stays, nothing will change. Rinse and repeat.

 

[The_Lump]

He closed western offices and consolidated everything into Japan. Now the Wii U (and 3DS) is failing because of severely underperforming in the west. 1+1 = 3.

Yup. He'll get another year though

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

The thing is its only going to get worse if they don't do something about it. 3DS sales are disappointing and are declining, and thats there primary money maker right now. I mean in a year with Pokemon, MH in JP and 2DS how is it down YoY? Whats in 2014 to keep sales from not declining by a notable amount.

The WiiU continues to sell horribly and what makes it worse is Nintendo is loosing money on the system. The poor sales lead to poor software sales which means Nintendo cannot make the money back.

Essentially they are stuck with a dead system and a declining one. They are going to have to stick it out for at least another 2 years until the 3Ds successor is announced.

Anyone know what the 3DS LTD is btw? I'm curious if its even going to reach PSP sales.

 

[Exterminieren]

I think you're missing my point. I'm simply replying to someone who said Iwata is responsible for at least 2 failed products. I font think he is.

You didn't say products. You said concepts.

 

[lefantome]

It's a disaster!

These numbers in one of their biggest software years, games wise, and with 3DS sales declining and the Wii U almost dead?

This Nintendo can't survive selling to a niche, it must change or get smaller to survive. Unless a miracle happens.

 

[Tookay]

You don't sack this guy after one failed concept. It's a very Western thing to immediately fire everyone as soon as one thing goes awry, and it usually doesn't lead to good things.

You have empirical evidence for this? Or is this just something Random Gaffer #394 told you and you decided to parrot it?

And does that "fire everyone" scenario even equate to "firing Iwata" (an individual) anyway?

 

[thepotatoman]

His point is that Iwata resigning will not ensure that, especially in a big Japanese company with a lot of history. The business culture is such that even if Iwata were to go, it seems more likely for them to replace from within than to seek out an outsider with the the experience and qualifications to enact major change. The main reason to replace a CEO in such cultures is for someone to take the fall to appease shareholders. Nothing more.

You'd still expect the person taking over would want to change things before having to take the fall himself, and he'll think about how to do it differently just by virtue of having different DNA and life experiences.

 

[Mpl90]

66M in software sales across 40M units is pretty damning.

Err, I don't believe things work like that. That's the estimate for this year only, for the forecatsed 13,5 millions of hardware sales. Why mixing those? It sounds a stupid basis for an analysis, sorry.

 

[cyberheater]

At this point in time is it even worth continuing with a Zelda Wii U title? Move this to a future platform as a launch title.

Don't say that. It's one of the main reasons I bought the console

 

[SmokyDave]

66M in software sales across 40M units is pretty damning.

Terrible, ain't it. I'm not all that surprised though, the hardware is horrible. It's certainly the platform that I own the least games for (although I'm way ahead of the average) because I just don't like using it. Turning it on is like being catapulted back to 2009.

Err, I don't believe things work like that. That's the estimate for this year only, for the forecatsed 13,5 millions of hardware sales. Why mixing those? It sounds a stupid basis for an analysis, sorry.

The attach rate is dire. Overall software sales aren't good at all and 66M seems like very few games sold for a device with an install base of 35-40M (that just had the best year for software it will ever have).

 

[MisterHero]

I want changes as well, but it's Nintendo culture that needs changes. Not in the sense of completely forgetting who they are, but in the sense of becoming more ooen to the world. Like, completely. I'm anxious, and I'd like to help them in some way too, like probably many Nintendo fans want...but how? I just can stay here and only hope things changes much, much more than the current changes. I know this is irrational, but I'd love to find a way to help them in improving, any. To help them understand they can't stay in their bubble, they need to look at both West and East as two big and important markets, not just looking Japan and thinking "Yuk, this'll do it in the West as well!!! Genius!", there can be moves to do even in the mid-term and not just in the long term. Seriously, I want to help them massively...but they won't ever hear me, obviously, or any other Nintendo fan posting on messageboards. If only there were a way...I can't stand seeing them in this state. I want to help them, like, now.

Spoiler

Aaand probably I'm just as disappointed as Aquamarine, so I'm saying irrational things. It'll pass, it'll pass...

Maybe NeoGAF should bug them for more Pikmin just like that one E3. Yeah we know what Nintendo needs to make, and how to be successful at it!

 

[Sandfox]

Also of note: If the current estimates for the 3DS hold, the system will of sold 13 million units less than Nintendo expected to be at by the end of March (They've missed their 18 million estimate they set every year since launch). This sum is now almost greater than total annual sales, and this was the last year with a healthy string of high profile releases. 2014 is comparatively dry and will see a heavy dip downward.

I think its too early to say that.

Only a Pokemon MMO can save Nintendo now.

Oh god.

 

[The_Lump]

It's missing every target that the company sets for it, software sales are through the floor, it's down YOY, it was the source of huge losses earlier on in life, and the main hardware gimmick is such a busted flush that Nintendo have taken it out of the latest revision. 3DS isn't a disaster any more, but it's repeatedly failed as a concept.

Ok yeah conceptually it wasn't succesful. I chose my words badly. I just don't class it as a failed product.

 

[Faustek]

Hmm, not sure about how to feel about this.

Sad because it didn't go well or happy because this means they'll finally start reacting instead of lumbering around like a giant dofus.

Well as long as Nintendo keeps on publishing third party games in Europe I'll keep on buying the sweet sweet RPGs. Just hope that translates into WiiU soon and not just 3DS.

 

[Kysen]

Nintendo should bail on the wiiu. Why continue to manufacture and sell at a loss and then have to pay retailers to keep stock. Incurring more and more losses as time goes on is just like the ps3. At this rate they will wipe out their Wii profits and be back to square one. Better to stop the bleeding now and focus on the successful 3DS.

 

[Nags]

Only a Pokemon MMO can save Nintendo now.

It is time.

 

[Tookay]

So by that logic, the entire last generation wad a failure because nothing outsold PS2?

I think you're missing my point. I'm simply replying to someone who said Iwata is responsible for at least 2 failed products. I font think he is.

Actually, that wasn't where my logic was going at all, but thanks for adding in a lot of logic jumps and twisting it in that direction.

I'm questioning whether the 3DS is a "success" simply because it makes a "profit" under your rubric; that doesn't mean necessarily that I'm calling it a failure. I'm not sure we can make that determination yet.

Though I will point to you the fact that the 3DS consistently falls beneath Nintendo's expectations suggests to me that, at the very least, it is underperforming.

 

[Forkball]

Early last year, when Wii U was bombing hard, the first Nintendo Direct was about... The year of Luigi. That was their response to the horrible launch: prominently feature a side character for a year.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Nintendo should bail on the wiiu. Why continue to manufacture and sell at a loss and then have to pay retailers to keep stock. Incurring more and more losses as time goes on is just like the ps3. At this rate they will wipe out their Wii profits and be back to square one. Better to stop the bleeding now and focus on the successful 3DS.

Because it does damage to your brand as a whole if you bail on products. They have to stick with it now. At least for 4 or so years in order to give it a somewhat full console cycle.

 

[Zinthar]

The point is that Nintendo feel that BC is very important. If they want to compete at a hardware level with the big boys. They will be forced to drop hardware BC. I can't see them doing that.

BC obviously isn't *that* important to gamers when the only console with it is being killed by the two that don't. I suspect that Nintendo stuck with it primarily because they wanted similar hardware for the sake of easily adapting older game engines and dev tools to the new platform.

 

[Marsyas]

I'm actually surprised that Nintendo had to change forecast for the 3DS. 66M in software and 13.5M in hardware isn't that great (it's way down from what the DS sold).

 

[Sandfox]

Early last year, when Wii U was bombing hard, the first Nintendo Direct was about... The year of Luigi. That was their response to the horrible launch: prominently feature a side character for a year.

Yeah of Luigi was announced in a Feburay direct and we had a January direct focused around the Wii U.

 

[Rawket Lawnchair]

Damn, Nintendo. :-(