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[AniHawk]

Okay, so, this is an interesting idea, but I'm still not convinced it would sell. The 3DS successor system, I mean. I feel like it would face similar issues that the Wii U and Vita face. It sounds like the general idea behind it is that it's basically a portable console, and that Nintendo's games with more handheld-esque design philosophies would stay on the "mass-market handheld". The market doesn't want a portable console, which is a big problem that the Vita has. The 3DS has both games with console and handheld-esque design philosophies that do well but I'm not convinced that the system would do well with just the console-esque design philosophy games. And I also think that the 3DS successor system would probably end up being too expensive to sell well.

Also, side question, but how would local multiplayer work on the thing? Does everyone have to own their own system? Can you buy controllers that you can hook up to the system when using the TV-out? (thus driving up the cost of the system even more)

local multiplayer would be more of a console thing, where this would not. actually, the idea of it being a 'hybrid' only goes as far as it connecting to the tv. the games would be made with the same philosophies of their current handheld titles. this would have pokemon gen 6/7, super mario land galaxy, new super mario bros. 3, etc. i'm talking about the actual death of their console line. it would only be a portable console as much as a 3ds is one now. a system like this could probably go for $200 in 2016.

the 'game boy' would have to be more 'casual' and focus on what made nintendo's biggest handhelds hits. there would be less overlap with their traditional line. this is something an nes remix might do well on, for instance.

 

[L Thammy]

Because it does damage to your brand as a whole if you bail on products. They have to stick with it now. At least for 4 or so years in order to give it a somewhat full console cycle.

You don't have to announce when you're "bailing out". You reduce the amount of money you're pumping into it, don't explain yourself, and focus on the future instead.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97254851&postcount=467

 

[Boy Wander]

I like Iwata, but I really think that he's not the right person to lead Nintendo out of this mess.
I would actually like to see someone from outside of the company, hell, outside of Japan. Someone who understands and respects the Nintendo culture and philosophies, but also someone who can make them more global in appeal, with good 3rd party relationships and an appreciation of the differences required to make a system sell in each region. Iwata is a decent frontman in terms of connecting with Nintendo fans, but it's time for someone else to start pulling the strings.

 

[Rehynn]

Terrible, ain't it. I'm not all that surprised though, the hardware is horrible. It's certainly the platform that I own the least games for (although I'm way ahead of the average) because I just don't like using it. Turning it on is like being catapulted back to 2009.

Oh wow, stealth Vita damage control. Grasping at every straw imaginable... except for the games themselves, of course.

 

[Xater]

The wiiu needs a price cut and I think it will do well. £250 for a machine which is about as powerful as a PS3 which you can buy for as low as £120 (12gb model) is ridiculous on Nintendo's part. Either way il buy one when the new zelda is released on it.

Problem is that they can't do that. They are already losing money on each console sold and that would only make the situation worse. And software sales are not going to make up for it with basically no third party support.

So the real question is: Will the Wii U even surpass Gamecube's sales at this point?

No.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I can't believe I stayed up all night for the NPD thread, went to bed and missed this, the news I was really waiting for.

Also, I posted that Nintendo could lose half a billion dollars this year two months ago using 'back of the envelope' estimates and nobody replied, I think everyone thought I was crazy
Looks like they did better than that, but my guess wasn't crazy. They lost a quarter billion. Wow.

Honest to god I think I recall reading that, or at least something similar

 

[Majmun]

No. The console is dead.

I don't like to play the "wait for ...." game. But I do think that Mario Kart 8 and the new Smash will keep the Wii U alive.

Even when the Wii U will probably end up selling worse than the GC.

 

[The_Lump]

You have empirical evidence for this? Or is this just something Random Gaffer #394 told you and you decided to parrot it?

And does that "fire everyone" scenario even equate to "firing Iwata" (an individual) anyway?

Nope. Just an opinion I magically formed myself. Relax, guy.

IMO - in the UK at least - companies, governments etc are all too quick to sack the guy at the top to appease the media/public. Unfortunately the media/public aren't always looking at it from a purely business perspective and often form a self perpetuating frenzy.

I'm not saying Iwata shouldn't go, I'm saying I think anyone who thinks he will go this year might be in for a shock.

 

[SmokyDave]

Oh wow, stealth Vita damage control. Grasping at every straw imaginable... except for the games themselves, of course.

What are you talking about?

 

[NingenJanai]

I think the reality is that everyone involved with Nintendo and at Nintendo, including Iwata himself, are all extremely frustrated. The fans are frustrated with how the WiiU ecosystem has turned out, the investors are frustrated at the poor performance continuing, partner developers are frustrated that their games are can't sell to their full potential on the WiiU because of the situation, Nintendo staff are frustrated that they don't seem to have a great solution to any of this, etc.

It's just one big shitty situation. Iwata resigning at this point would probably feel like some sort of relief that "change is coming", but it doesn't guarantee it, nor does it put Nintendo in a better situation at all. So yeah, it's really tough to see a "good" solution right now.

At least it would seem like they are trying to change and are doing something about their problems.

Gamers are getting tired of Iwata's empty promises and apologies.

 

[Tookay]

I don't like to play the "wait for ...." game. But I do think that Mario Kart 8 and the new Smash will keep the Wii U alive.

Even when the Wii U will probably end up selling worse than the GC.

This presumes the Wii U is currently alive to begin with.

 

[Griss]

And is Nintendo really paying retailers to keep floor space for the WiiU?

If they weren't, it would be gone from European shelves already. Pretty sure they've paid a few supermarket chains there. I expect it to be gone from shelves this year anyway. Fire sales everywhere.

 

[Nothing1016]

I don't know about you guys but I'm excited to see the route Nintendo takes. Every major company goes through this. You either adapt or you don't and that ultimately determines their fate. Leave luck to heaven Iwata, let's see if you can pull it off.

(I do feel sorry for you investors though. Must be completely frustrating to see such a talent company consistently make blunders over the past 3 years)

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Why not? They did with Kaz and they're still in more dire situation.

Wut? Kaz single handedly turned the PS3 around with his leadership, after Ken´s fuck up, and Kaz is turning Sony around.

 

[Duxxy3]

They need to find a way to clear shelves. Sorry, but smash and kart are not going to sell a $300 first party machine. It needs to be $199 somehow, and fast.

Right now they are probably losing more money keeping systems on the shelves than they would lose by a massive price cut. That or buy them back, ditch the controller and relaunch the system.

At $299 those systems will continue to collect dust, and retailers will just get more upset. Vita will definitely be removed from shelves this year. If they can't start selling wii u's it will share the same fate.

 

[BGBW]

Early last year, when Wii U was bombing hard, the first Nintendo Direct was about... The year of Luigi. That was their response to the horrible launch: prominently feature a side character for a year.

That was the result of a lot of games coincidentally starring Luigi. They didn't plan the year and then make the games.

 

[GamerJM]

local multiplayer would be more of a console thing, where this would not. actually, the idea of it being a 'hybrid' only goes as far as it connecting to the tv. the games would be made with the same philosophies of their current handheld titles. this would have pokemon gen 6/7, super mario land galaxy, new super mario bros. 3, etc. i'm talking about the actual death of their console line. it would only be a portable console as much as a 3ds is one now. a system like this could probably go for $200 in 2016.

the 'game boy' would have to be more 'casual' and focus on what made nintendo's biggest handhelds hits. there would be less overlap with their traditional line. this is something an nes remix might do well on, for instance.

Okay, I think I'm actually more confused about what the mass-market handheld is then. You said there's a focus on Nintendo's handheld hits but the games that have made their handhelds successful are games like Mario and Pokemon, which are supposedly going to be on the other system. So what is the "mass market system"? You mentioned NES Remix and games that are more casual but what does that entail? I'm getting the impression that it's mainly games similar to what's on the 3DS E-Shop right now, and I'm not sure if that could really carry a system.

 

[SolarPowered]

I'm busy playing games when my brother randomly tells me

Him: "Hey, they revised the Wii U estimates down to 2.8 Million Consoles"
Me: "2.8 million less? Knew it. That 9 million figure was LOLOLOL--"
Him: "2.8 Million consoles."
Me:

"You mean in one region?"
Him: "Nope."
Me:

"You sure you're not mistaken? Didn't they sell 2.8 Million consoles worldwide?" [sheer disbelief intensifies]
Him:

Me: ...

"Are you sure you didn't mean 2.8 Million consoles less?"
Him: Check the first page when you get back on GAF.

I'm still speechless. Holy shit there will be bloodshed.

I swear you are my favorite Nintendogaffer.

 

[Phire Phox]

How do the Wii U sales compare to Dreamcast Sales?

 

[KAP151]

I like Iwata, but I really think that he's not the right person to lead Nintendo out of this mess.
I would actually like to see someone from outside of the company, hell, outside of Japan. Someone who understands and respects the Nintendo culture and philosophies, but also someone who can make them more global in appeal, with good 3rd party relationships and an appreciation of the differences required to make a system sell in each region. Iwata is a decent frontman in terms of connecting with Nintendo fans, but it's time for someone else to start pulling the strings.

They have to. No doubt about it. A much as people carry on about how they have the warchest to ride this and several more disasters out, the damage its doing far outweighs the monetary values.

 

[Yawnier]

What a fucking mess of a situation you have on your hands, Nintendo.

 

[DieH@rd]

http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXNASHD1700Y_X10C14A1000000/

Iwata was quoted at the press conference today saying that he feels responsibility for the poor business performance at Nintendo, and he is sorry to all shareholders. He says the most important thing is to revigorate Nintendo's business as quickly as possible. He will NOT resign, but stay in office to carry that through.

Saving WiiU is a extremely hard job.

1st party titles are few and far between, casuals will not come back, console is expensive and has semi-useful gamepad, marketing was poor, games are delayed left and right, 1st party studios are fully committed to cartoony visuals because they are not properly scaled to create HD assets (i fully expect that new zelda will have cartoony visual style yet again), hardware is not only sold at loss but they are activley paying for each individual retail pricedrop and paying for console to remain on shelves, they have missed the boat on some significant 3rd party titles (most notably GTA5).

 

[Winterfang]

Because it does damage to your brand as a whole if you bail on products. They have to stick with it now. At least for 4 or so years in order to give it a somewhat full console cycle.

Cutting your loses should be a last resort strategy. It does damage the brand but not that much, because then people will be keeping an eye for your new product, hoping is fresh.

 

[Baleoce]

Hearing the forecast shift is bearable, as it was somewhat inevitable. Hearing that Iwata is staying to fix his mess is.. less bearable.

 

[Rehynn]

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about you taking any opportunity to diss the 3DS and implicitly or explicitly justify your love for the Vita.

That fact that you can't get over not holding the most high-end hardware in your hand when you play a great game is just... your problem, really. Luckily, most people are more concerned about the games.

 

[Yawnier]

Their three pillars are down to a short pillar and a stump.

This is a decent way to put things. What an enormous drop off from the not so long ago days of the Wii and DS.

 

[spekkeh]

Cutting your loses should be a last resort strategy. It does damage the brand but not that much, because then people will be keeping an eye for your new product, hoping is fresh.

I'm one of the few people that bought every Nintendo console, and even a Wii U. If they dump their Wii U now they would lose even me.

 

[CANLI]

Iwata Seppuku Mode?

I like Iwata but there are tons of intelligent guys in Japan who can do way better than him (same for Reggie and Europe divisions).

I'm a hardcore Ninty gamer since 85 and some of you might find it stupid but I still dind't buy the wii u. I would like it but something in me says "don't buy it".
I always but the ninty consoles on first weeks until now.

Some points of the wii u that exasperate me:
- Reggie announced that you can play with 2 mablets.
- announcements of 8 and 32 gb in a console at a time when there were 500 gb PS3 bundles. Too easy to say, go buy a harddisk. Sorry but i prefer to have a big harddisk integrated on a console. Sorry but we aren't more in 2006.
- E3: announcement of the miiverse app for phones but now, we just have a simple website besides that.
- Skype-like announcement on wii u (E3 again) where is it?
- Again and again, why they can not drop all the VC games at once. We have to wait 1 every two weeks. Same problem as wii and 3ds..
- Mablet, its poor quality and Keine double touch??
- the most important for me is downloaded games linked to the console and not an account system !

 

[SparkTR]

This is a decent way to put things. What an enormous drop off from the not so long ago days of the Wii and DS.

Those 'it prints money' gifs are still fresh in my head.

 

[L Thammy]

How do the Wii U sales compare to Dreamcast Sales?

.

 

[Xater]

How do the Wii U sales compare to Dreamcast Sales?

Wii U is selling at Dreamcast level.

 

[BGBW]

Cutting your loses should be a last resort strategy. It does damage the brand but not that much, because then people will be keeping an eye for your new product, hoping is fresh.

I've been buying Nintendo systems day one for years. If they were to cut the Wii U's life short I'd likely not jump on to their new system straight away and I'm sure other Nintendo fans would feel the same. This is the market they want to have day one because they drive early sales. If this consumer base bails it's pretty much over.

 

[maquiladora]

They need to find a way to clear shelves. Sorry, but smash and kart are not going to sell a $300 first party machine. It needs to be $199 somehow, and fast.

But then they'll be making a significant loss with each sale. Can't see that happening.

 

[AniHawk]

66M in software sales across 40M units is pretty damning.

Terrible, ain't it.

it sure is. good thing they're projecting to have sold 170m in software across 45m units.

The attach rate is dire. Overall software sales aren't good at all and 66M seems like very few games sold for a device with an install base of 35-40M (that just had the best year for software it will ever have).

66m does seem low. it's because it's the year's projection of software only.

 

[xandaca]

Because it does damage to your brand as a whole if you bail on products. They have to stick with it now. At least for 4 or so years in order to give it a somewhat full console cycle.

Exactly. Nintendo's value to their customers has already been severely depleted by having to cut prices on their last two consoles so early (consider the number of people who will now automatically wait for a price cut before buying a new Nintendo), so to outright ditch one after just over a year would be suicide. No-one would buy one of their machines again out of fear it, and they, would be abandoned.

 

[Shiina]

Oh wow, stealth Vita damage control. Grasping at every straw imaginable... except for the games themselves, of course.

You should ask yourself why the Vita was even brought up in such a thread in the first place.

 

[MarkMclovin]

This year is going to be bad for Nintendo, isn't it?

 

[Shengar]

2.8 million is pretty damning and terrible numbers. Worse is, from Aquamarine post earlier, they still have yet to reach that number and probably wouldn't since this quarter will be a slower after holiday season. Like Nirolak said, Nintendo problem is systemic. Even if they fire Iwata, but the new CEO is nothing more than a proxy of him, nothing will changed. The new CEO must at least return NoA's power for their own sake.

 

[Yado]

I like Iwata, but I really think that he's not the right person to lead Nintendo out of this mess.
I would actually like to see someone from outside of the company, hell, outside of Japan. Someone who understands and respects the Nintendo culture and philosophies, but also someone who can make them more global in appeal, with good 3rd party relationships and an appreciation of the differences required to make a system sell in each region. Iwata is a decent frontman in terms of connecting with Nintendo fans, but it's time for someone else to start pulling the strings.

This would be great but it's more likely it will be someone from within the company who Iwata has been grooming or someone who isn't much different from him. Nothing can be done to save the Wii U, hopefully whoever replaces him will have different ideas in mind when it comes to the future of Nintendo in general.

 

[Boy Wander]

I've been buying Nintendo systems day one for years. If they were to cut the Wii U's life short I'd likely not jump on to their new system straight away and I'm sure other Nintendo fans would feel the same. This is the market they want to have day one because they drive early sales. If this cucumber base bails it's pretty much over.

They can't bin the U. What they can do is pretty much do what Sony did. Be realistic about where they've fucked up and do they're damndest to build bridges and start afresh. They can ride out the Wii U generation but they can't afford to mess up 2 Gens in a row.

 

[redcrayon]

I'm talking about you taking any opportunity to diss the 3DS and implicitly or explicitly justify your love for the Vita.

That fact that you can't get over not holding the most high-end hardware in your hand when you play a great game is just... your problem, really. Luckily, most people are more concerned about the games.

Comparisons to the Vita hardware quality aside, he's got a point about the 3DS attach rate for full-price retail games though- it's awful, even more so considering the quality of the games range.

I wish we could get actual figures of downloaded full price and eshop games. I also wonder if the virtual console and eshop are tearing into full-priced boxed game sales, seeing as people are used to cheaper mobile software these days.

 

[Yoshi]

Nintendo putting their old games (NES/SNES/GB era) at a slow pace on iOS wouldn't be a bad thing for them. It'd give them a lot of money to keep pumping into their console and handheld divisions. I remember Hideo Baba basically saying that they only put old Tales games on phones because it makes them a lot of money, but they aren't going to actually make flagship Tales titles for it.

The thing is, even if they just port some old games to iOS (or let someone else do this, Nintendo can't devote their ressources to that), this makes one more platform Nintendo titles are available to. Which results in less incentives for iOS-owners to buy a Nintendo system for (for instance) Mario. Also, iOS and Android are competing with the one market where they are still strong: Handhelds. While I don't think they should do this, they would probably still be better off with porting Virtual Console games to other consoles or PC than to iOS / Android.

 

[ash_ag]

How people think a Nintendo hardware can compete with PlayStation or Xbox is beyond me. The argument that the latter are "made of PC parts, and Nintendo could just use the same logic" is just straight out silly. The market is saturated, and the existing network, infrastructure and ecosystem Nintendo has build over the past two generations makes them incompatible with the audience Sony and Microsoft aim for. If they changed their policies, they would essentially make a new entrant in the industry -- it wouldn't be very different from Sega returning in the hardware game. That's not viable.

To return to form, Nintendo's aim must be having every single gamer on the planet owning a Nintendo system. To do that, they must target in making a cheap system that offers experiences gamers won't find in PlayStation, Xbox or PC. Strong, diverse first-party output, a small but sturdy network of third-party supporters that work close with them, and guaranteed, continued activity in all sectors of their business.

Nintendo's big strengths are their game-design-first logic, their communication with their customers, and their low price strategy. Those are the sectors they should focus on; especially when it comes to restoring the latter two. It's no coincidence that all the big problems in their history all have arisen from relatively pricey systems. As gaming becomes a more mainstream hobby, if they can succeed in making a 30% of gamers adopt one of their products (and this is why they should only offer only one, affordable product -- so that none suffers from redundancy), they can be considered prosperous.

 

[The_Lump]

Actually, that wasn't where my logic was going at all, but thanks for adding in a lot of logic jumps and twisting it in that direction.

I'm questioning whether the 3DS is a "success" simply because it makes a "profit" under your rubric; that doesn't mean necessarily that I'm calling it a failure. I'm not sure we can make that determination yet.

Though I will point to you the fact that the 3DS consistently falls beneath Nintendo's expectations suggests to me that, at the very least, it is underperforming.

Yes it's underperforming Nintendo's dilusional projections. Thats a whole other story, but that wasnt my point anyway.

Apologies, I wasn't trying to twist your logic at all. (I'm being a bit jovial but tone doesn't come accross in text I guess.) I thought you were saying I didn't understand how companies expect growth if I class 3DS as a successful product. And that same logic would dictate that no follow up product is a success if it doesn't outsell its predecessor. So that would mean PS3 would not be a success (which it was). There, no logical gymnastics required

Spoiler

It's going to go OT if we follow that one further, so let's not!

 

[Rehynn]

You should ask yourself why the Vita was even brought up in such a thread in the first place.

Easy. It's also a great system that's failing, much like the Wii U. Although, compared to the competition the Wii U isn't that great, of course.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

To be honest, the only person that would be able to replace Iwata is Minoru Arakawa. And considering his wife has recently inherited lot of Yamauchi's shares, I suspect he could also find a majority voting for him.

There is nobody else both able to make a big change and that also knows the corporate as well as Arakawa.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm talking about you taking any opportunity to diss the 3DS and implicitly or explicitly justify your love for the Vita.

Y'know, it's possible to diss the 3DS without justifying anything to do with the Vita. You really think I'm going to start a sales fight on behalf of the Vita? Shiiiiiiiiit.

That fact that you can't get over not holding the most high-end hardware in your hand when you play a great game is just... your problem, really. Luckily, most people are more concerned about the games.

I think you'll find 'most people' are playing mobile games. How does that sit with you? Smartphones are pretty high-end as hardware goes. My 5S eats the 3DS for breakfast and probably has room left for a Vita dessert.

it sure is. good thing they're projecting to have sold 170m in software across 48m units.

Huh? The projection is 66M units of software. Are you talking LTD?

 

[Mazzo]

I hope all this money loss is due to new games for Wii U xD

 

[Zinthar]

This far into the thread, I'm surprised we don't have an over/under on a $200 Wii U sans gamepad (Pro controller instead) arriving before Fall.

I think we'll see this happen as soon as Nintendo can come up with a way to at least patch out Gamepad functionality from its own games.

 

[LoveCake]

I'm one of the few people that bought every Nintendo console, and even a Wii U. If they dump their Wii U now they would lose even me.

I am in the same boat as you, i don't want to derail the thread, but even if the WiiU2 did do enough to entice me i wouldn't buy it at launch like i have previously & people not buying at launch makes things worse, like what happened with the 3DS, Vita & various others.

A console is a investment & people invest in things to get a return, i accept that i have lost on the WiiU, people don't like to lose & people won't forget.