Support NeoGAF

[A_Gorilla]

And you know, another system that sold only half the GameCube's total units was... the Dreamcast.

Indeed, I believe it was the dreamchild of Kalinske's successor.

 

[Sneds]

It's really fucking simple. Dump NES and SNES games on Android and Iphone at 99 cents or in game ads and profit?! It's not rocket science Nintendo. Well maybe for Nintendo it is.

They won't even do that on their own consoles.

 

[Griss]

Just to add a bit to the Nintendo Android tablet thing:

1) Why would developers develop for it instead just putting the games on Play/iOS? Why put in the extra work?

2) Why would anyone buy it if it didn't offer all the stuff other Android/iOS tablets offer, especially if they have already bought into one of the ecosystems?

3) How would Nintendo make any money off of it if they have to have a bunch of free/low-priced games and could not charge a premium for the hardware? The have to compete with low cost/subsidized Android tablets for the low end after all. Kindle Fire starts @ $139.

I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm just saying I believe it is impossible for a company like Nintendo to compete with Google, Apple, Amazon, and Microsoft in that space. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

That's how I feel about the tablet market. Bigger, more competent companies have failed to break in there. If Nintendo went towards the LeapPad end of the scale I could maybe see it... But against iPad at the top and Kindle Fire at the bottom I just don't see anywhere they can find a niche. I don't think their software would be the defining factor people seem to think it would. We don't even know what their software would be like on a tablet.

 

[ambientmystic]

That's a much bigger loss than I expected, and the fact that it is likely going to be the 3rd straight year with an operating loss is very worrying. I thought they would at least break even.

Having just read this, I am thinking that Nintendo is in some deep, deep doodoo. Iwata has made some incredibly poor decisions, and the Wii U might just find itself on the chopping block.

So, Yamauchi-san, do you already regret anointing Iwata-san your successor? It sure sounds like it from your end.

Spoiler

/sarcasm /yes I know it's not really Yamauchi lol

On topic, it's pretty damn sobering that even after posting the best month ever for the Wii U in the US on the NPD (which shocked even myself), and also having the best selling console ever for the year 2013 (3DS), they're still considered doomed.

What the hell does that make their other competitors in the market (Sony/MS), dead and buried?

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Leaning towards not very likely.

This is what GameCube did by fiscal year:

3,800,000 (Partial)
5,760,000
5,020,000
3,920,000
2,350,000
730,000
160,000

And this is where Wii U is.

3,450,000 (Partial)
2,800,000 (Nintendo Forecast)

They'll be trailing by 3.3 million LTD over roughly the same span and, frankly, I don't know that they have any shot of getting to 5+ million next year to start cutting into the margin.

I didn't have the GC numbers by fiscal years. Thanks for those.
Just shows how the market completely dismissed them.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I didn't have the GC numbers by fiscal years. Thanks for those.
Just shows how the market completely dismissed them.

Find all the data you want here. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/historical_data/index.html

 

[The_Endgamer]

Honestly, how the hell do you drive such a reputable company into the ground?

Really, they make the Wii + then building on that, try to do the same fucking thing with a different control method? How are all these input methods going to be emulated and put forward in the future for backward compatibility?

Iwata needs to go ASAP. He's actively crippling the growth of the company... and fuck knows why.

 

[Effer]

I'd like to see them adopt Hasbro's business model.

Make a television show (or in this case video game) and try to break even on it. Then absolutely kill it selling shitty plastic baubles and plush toys. I say this because I would've spent considerable amounts of money on Animal Crossing merchandise, and I'd love Metroid/Zelda merch too. Imagine the Nintendo store allowed easy online purchases with reasonable shipping? We'd drown ourselves in everything Nintendo.

Like the old Nintendo Power "power stamp" catalogues, only easier to buy.

 

[Yamauchi]

It's nowhere near that simple.

The budget difference between a mainline Mario game and that of your average iOS game is an order of magnitude. If they end up producing mobile games, they definitely still will need rather large budgets (not at the same levels as they do currently but still much higher than other mobile games) because if they start producing lower-quality material on other platforms, they'll just further damage what's left of their brand and be even worse off than they are currently.

That's the last thing Nintendo should want right now.

With your average iOS game being sold for less than $5, it's not at all clear whether Nintendo-caliber games can be profitable on mobile platforms, even factoring in the much higher potential market. If they try going much higher than that, say $20-30, they'll get laughed out of the App Store while users go play the dozens of free games out there.

That said, the stock probably won't have another dramatic move in the short term. The fact it only moved 17% while the company cut estimates between 40 and 70% means investors had long given up on trusting Nintendo's internal sales estimates and a large part of the miss was already priced in.

The question now simply becomes to know what the new Nintendo will look like and what kind of earnings potential it'll have compared to what it used to have. That's a complete wildcard right now, but what we do know is that losses will continue on for at least a year or two while the company prepares its new strategy, whatever it is.

They'll never know just how well they can do on mobile platforms until they try.

I personally don't think they should port Mario to Android / iOS just yet. They need to create a subsidiary with a non-Nintendo name and get a small studio working on a couple of high quality mobile titles. Release them and see if it's a business model they want to pursue. If they can break even on titles without Mario / Zelda / whatever, they could probably make serious money with their IPs.

I think $5 would be a very good price point for mobile Nintendo games. You've got over 1 billion Android devices and 700 million iOS devices.

I'm starting to feel that Nintendo's days as a high-quality software producer are limited as they in turn refuse to release high-quality hardware. Perhaps I'm overreacting at the moment, but that projected lost is pretty damn staggering.

 

[tengiants]

It's interesting how many anti Nintendo posts come from people with Nintendo related avatars.

 

[BoboBrazil]

They won't even do that on their own consoles.

Exactly why they are on their way to irrelevance. Incompetence permeates throughout the leadership at Nintendo.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Nintendo should farm out the rights and let Sony make Super Metroid HD for ps4

 

[Maitiú]

Edit: I think the $55 billion profit was Nintendo's estimate for the year not analysts. So that seems pretty bad.

Careful with the dollar and yen units, OP. If Nintendo lost 25 billion dollars, then the game would be over for Nintendo. We're talking about $250 million lost compared to a $550 million profit forecast for a company that has about $11 billion in the bank.

 

[StoopKid]

Careful with the dollar and yen units, OP. If Nintendo lost 25 billion dollars, then the game would be over for Nintendo. We're talking about $250 million lost compared to a $550 million profit forecast for a company that has about $11 billion in the bank.

Sure about that ?

 

[Tookay]

Honestly, how the hell do you drive such a reputable company into the ground?

Really, they make the Wii + then building on that, try to do the same fucking thing with a different control method? How are all these input methods going to be emulated and put forward in the future for backward compatibility?

Iwata needs to go ASAP. He's actively crippling the growth of the company... and fuck knows why.

I do think about this sometimes. Nintendo leans pretty heavily on remakes and nostalgia for its classics, but how are some of their "classics" from the DS/Wii era ever going to be replicated or ported in the future? They'll have to do a lot more work than just dumping an unchanged ROM out on an emulator the way they're doing with the VC.

 

[ASIS]

Careful with the dollar and yen units, OP. If Nintendo lost 25 billion dollars, then the game would be over for Nintendo. We're talking about $250 million lost compared to a $550 million profit forecast for a company that has about $11 billion in the bank.

I'm still a little dumbfounded that they forecasted a profit and ended up with a loss.

That reminds me, did Iwata ever say what was the consequence of not achieving the 1 billion yen target or whatever he was 'committed' to?

 

[The_Endgamer]

It's interesting how many anti Nintendo posts come from people with Nintendo related avatars.

So Nintendo fans should like what's happening to them + the franchises they play? I want decent and varied games. We won't get that playing Mario iterations on a yearly basis.

Less money means stagnation for Nintendo at this point.

They need to assure people that there is a pipeline of new games coming out that can actually sell consoles. Not pander to the Nintendo fans that are already there.

 

[Mushroomer25]

It's really fucking simple. Dump NES and SNES games on Android and Iphone at 99 cents or in game ads and profit?! It's not rocket science Nintendo. Well maybe for Nintendo it is.

The issue is that those would be abysmal playing experiences, and shit all over Nintendo's credibility. The "brand" of Nintendo is the most valuable part of their whole company right now. Releasing shit software isn't going to do anything.

 

[Agent Unknown]

I'm still a little dumbfounded that they forecasted a profit and ended up with a loss.

That reminds me, did Iwata ever say what was the consequence of not achieving the 1 billion yen target or whatever he was 'committed' to?

He never mentioned any "consequence," that was a mistranslation/misquote by a reporter. The guy projected nine million units and after missing that ludicrous number is still trying to desperately hang on to his position. This is not a man who has at any time this past year adhered to any sort of concept regarding consequences.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Why don't they just dump their entire back catalogue of games on Wii U and 3DS? There are so many games missing from VC. Star with Super Mario World 2: Yoshi Island plz

 

[ASIS]

It's interesting how many anti Nintendo posts come from people with Nintendo related avatars.

I hope I received a reputation for being an avid Nintendo fan and a Sony admirer. But that won't stop me from turning a blind eye from their misfires and absolutely won't give them the benefit of doubt "just because" (unless its a mainline Zelda, but that's another topic for another thread)

I'm happy that a lot of Nintendo fans are also behaving similarly. Blindly followings s support a company, and acting as if their word is the gospel will not do anyone any good.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Why don't they just dump their entire back catalogue of games on Wii U and 3DS? There are so many games missing from VC. Star with Super Mario World 2: Yoshi Island plz

Seriously. Now that we have Earthbound, YI and Starfox SNES are the only odd missing, unreleased AAA VC titles.

Edit: Also, it's a small matter in the grand scheme of things, but NOA being the only region to still not have SMB3 and LTTP on the eShop is a weekly, irritating troll if I ever saw one. Both those games should have been up the Thursday before 3DW and LBW launch day as a nice cross promotion on the side. Again, a company that can no longer make that little bit of extra effort towards its fans and its own marketing.

 

[Byakuya769]

I'd like to see them adopt Hasbro's business model.

Make a television show (or in this case video game) and try to break even on it. Then absolutely kill it selling shitty plastic baubles and plush toys. I say this because I would've spent considerable amounts of money on Animal Crossing merchandise, and I'd love Metroid/Zelda merch too. Imagine the Nintendo store allowed easy online purchases with reasonable shipping? We'd drown ourselves in everything Nintendo.

Like the old Nintendo Power "power stamp" catalogues, only easier to buy.

Nah. I'm a grown ass man.

 

[Maitiú]

Sure about that ?

Yeah, I am. Look up any recent Nintendo annual financial report, and under assets look at cash and deposits and short-term investment securities. The two together is roughly $14 billion.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Find all the data you want here. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/historical_data/index.html

Thanks for the link!

 

[RevoDS]

They'll never know just how well they can do on mobile platforms until they try.

I personally don't think they should port Mario to Android / iOS just yet. They need to create a subsidiary with a non-Nintendo name and get a small studio working on a couple of high quality mobile titles. Release them and see if it's a business model they want to pursue. If they can break even on titles without Mario / Zelda / whatever, they could probably make serious money with their IPs.

I think $5 would be a very good price point for mobile Nintendo games. You've got over 1 billion Android devices and 700 million iOS devices.

I'm starting to feel that Nintendo's days as a high-quality software producer are limited as they in turn refuse to release high-quality hardware. Perhaps I'm overreacting at the moment, but that projected lost is pretty damn staggering.

I agree, a strategy that starts small like this could potentially work. My point was that they can't just bet the house on mobile devices when it may or may not be profitable and it seems you're in agreement on that.

The post I was replying to suggested that it was a simple matter of dumping Nintendo IP on iOS for them to make bank, which simply isn't true any way you slice it, yet it seems to be a wildly popular opinion around here.

Careful with the dollar and yen units, OP. If Nintendo lost 25 billion dollars, then the game would be over for Nintendo. We're talking about $250 million lost compared to a $550 million profit forecast for a company that has about $11 billion in the bank.

Just had a quick look at their last earnings report, their cash and short term securities amounted to roughly 845 billion yen, which is about $8 billion at today's exchange rates.

A lot lower, yet it still means they can withstand a lot of $240 million losses before being in trouble.

Edit:FYI, my source is available here since you seem to be looking at older reports...
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/131030e.pdf

 

[Josh7289]

They'll never know just how well they can do on mobile platforms until they try.

I personally don't think they should port Mario to Android / iOS just yet. They need to create a subsidiary with a non-Nintendo name and get a small studio working on a couple of high quality mobile titles. Release them and see if it's a business model they want to pursue. If they can break even on titles without Mario / Zelda / whatever, they could probably make serious money with their IPs.

I think $5 would be a very good price point for mobile Nintendo games. You've got over 1 billion Android devices and 700 million iOS devices.

I'm starting to feel that Nintendo's days as a high-quality software producer are limited as they in turn refuse to release high-quality hardware. Perhaps I'm overreacting at the moment, but that projected lost is pretty damn staggering.

I don't think Nintendo should overreact and move entirely in the opposite direction though. They still have to find their own way.

 

[BoboBrazil]

The issue is that those would be abysmal playing experiences, and shit all over Nintendo's credibility. The "brand" of Nintendo is the most valuable part of their whole company right now. Releasing shit software isn't going to do anything.

Not at all. People don't seem to have any issues playing them on snes9x off the Android play store. Of course even altering controls for something like an NES game would be incredibly easy for them to do. This type of thing shouldn't even take more than 1-2 people to add in more phone based controls.

 

[Hours Left]

Personally, I think this is the best thing that could of happened to Nintendo. It forces them to really analyze what they need to do to make their place in the current market. Their biggest downfall has always been how lazy and insular they become after a string of successes.

Panicked Nintendo is best Nintendo because then they actually start doing stuff. Just don't fold to the pressure to sell out the one thing that makes Nintendo special, it's exclusivity. Just make the Nintendo experience more appealing to people that have long since written it off.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Iwata's whole attitude of running away from the competition is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in business. They didn't even bother to show up at E3 this year and instead just released some laggy ass youtube vid.

Oh wait they did have that booth at E3 where they promised a special announcement where everyone stood around for 2 hours and finally the big announcement turned out to be....wii fit trainer in Smash Bros 4!! WoW this is totally not going to piss people off and get them to drop cash on Wii U instead of competitors products!

 

[Skyzard]

I reckon Nintendo could sell 6-7 Million Wii Us by next year with Smash, MK, and a good board game type thing that makes use of the WiiU gamepad, F-Zero and that smart idea where one player (the dad/mum/big brother etc) controls the game for other players using the gamepad.

As long as they had a good marketing campaign and advert and dropped the price more. They need to be making this thing cheaper if they are losing out, wtf.

Market it as something that will save the family, for cheap but is catered to people who have gotten bored of wii - as in, something next-gen. The specs are fine, it's the games that need to wow us. Third parties won't do it for Nintendo, before they've even put their best titles on it and taken decent risks and put in the marketing for it.

Smart adverts Nintendo, not discount retailer pricecut stuff and glee-actor kids with fake smiles. Parents need to get it for their kids. Kids got lots of other interests these days.

Time it for when people realise they are too poor for a next-gen product (after they've seen the adverts for it this year) but still need to get something new for the family to enjoy. AKA this christmas better be good.

 

[yogloo]

Wii u was doomed at the moment they chose the name over wii 2.
I still want to know who is responsible for that.

 

[jcm]

Yeah, I am. Look up any recent Nintendo annual financial report, and under assets look at cash and deposits and short-term investment securities. The two together is roughly $14 billion.

No, it's not. Here is their cash + short term in jpy:

March 2009: 1,220,148
March 2010: 1,252,321
March 2011: 1,171,076
March 2102:   958,322
March 2013:   903,301

July 2013:    867,130

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Wii u was doomed at the moment they chose the name over wii 2.
I still want to know who is responsible for that.

Yep, you guessed it: Frank Stallone.

 

[Maitiú]

Just had a quick look at their last earnings report, their cash and short term securities amounted to roughly 845 billion yen, which is about $8 billion at today's exchange rates.

A lot lower, yet it still means they can withstand a lot of $240 million losses before being in trouble.

Edit:FYI, my source is available here since you seem to be looking at older reports...
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/131030e.pdf

Oh, thank you. I was originally looking at the 2011 report. Last year's report shows their cash and short term at ~11$ billion, and your link shows a further 3 billion depletion. I didn't realize their new development building depleted their cash reserves quite that much. Total property, plant and equipment assets have gone from 80 billion yen in March 2011 to 89 billion yen in September 2013. (thanks Randolph!)

 

[ffdgh]

Wii u was doomed at the moment they chose the name over wii 2.
I still want to know who is responsible for that.

After the initial reveal and the confusion that came from It at E3, it's nuts that they kept the name.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Oh, thank you. I was originally looking at the 2011 report. Last year's report shows their cash and short term at ~11$ billion, and your link shows a further 3 billion depletion. I didn't realize their new development building depleted their cash reserves quite that much. Total property, plant and equipment assets have gone from 80 trillion yen in March 2012 to 1500 trillion yen in September 2013.

Get those bifocals checked. March 2012 PP&E was 87.8b yen, and September 2013 is 89.5b. Total assets as of September were just short of 1.5 trillion.

 

[jcm]

Total property, plant and equipment assets have gone from 80 trillion yen in March 2012 to 1500 trillion yen in September 2013.

You might want to double check those numbers. 1500 trillion jpy is 14 trillion usd.

 

[yogloo]

Yep, you guessed it: Frank Stallone.

Fuck you frank!

 

[Alchemy]

It's really fucking simple. Dump NES and SNES games on Android and Iphone at 99 cents or in game ads and profit?! It's not rocket science Nintendo. Well maybe for Nintendo it is.

It isn't that simple, it isn't like they can just dump ROMs. They need to make sure their products work correctly on all the Android devices they can because they still need to maintain quality. This means development and QA resources go into that, which prevents it from being pure profit.

Besides, Nintendo's deal so far has been maintaining brand quality by keeping a tight hold of their software and keeping it exclusive to their hardware. Unless Nintendo's plan is to completely jettison their hardware business it isn't a good idea for them to spread their IPs to other ecosystems.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Not at all. People don't seem to have any issues playing them on snes9x off the Android play store. Of course even altering controls for something like an NES game would be incredibly easy for them to do. This type of thing shouldn't even take more than 1-2 people to add in more phone based controls.

Trying to play any traditional game made with button controls with emulated on-screen buttons is a terrible, terrible experience. People don't complain, because they literally do not know better.

The only way this would be close to acceptable, is if Nintendo sold their own proprietary game controller shell for smartphones.

 

[Imperfected]

I reckon Nintendo could sell 6-7 Million Wii Us by next year with Smash, MK, and a good board game type thing that makes use of the WiiU gamepad, F-Zero and that smart idea where one player (the dad/mum/big brother etc) controls the game for other players using the gamepad.

As long as they had a good marketing campaign and advert and dropped the price more. They need to be making this thing cheaper if they are losing out, wtf.

Market it as something that will save the family, for cheap but is catered to people who have gotten bored of wii - as in, something next-gen. The specs are fine, it's the games that need to wow us. Third parties won't do it for Nintendo, before they've even put their best titles on it and taken decent risks and put in the marketing for it.

Smart adverts Nintendo, not discount retailer pricecut stuff and glee-actor kids with fake smiles. Parents need to get it for their kids. Kids got lots of other interests these days.

Time it for when people realise they are too poor for a next-gen product (after they've seen the adverts for it this year) but still need to get something new for the family to enjoy. AKA this christmas better be good.

So your strategy would be to do almost nothing different and just hope next Christmas is better?

... I've finally exposed you, Iwata!

 

[Birathen]

You might want to double check those numbers. 1500 trillion jpy is 14 trillion usd.

Nintendo to sell Japan, buy Murica instead.

 

[BowieZ]

Why don't they just dump their entire back catalogue of games on Wii U and 3DS? There are so many games missing from VC. Star with Super Mario World 2: Yoshi Island plz

We already got that one on 3DS the first time Iwata screwed up.

 

[Aeriscloud]

Yep, you guessed it: Frank Stallone.

Somehow I always knew.

 

[mechphree]

They would be better off making a specific game controller for IOS and android devices. Playing snes games on a touchscreen is a terrible experience. I'd play Mario on my ipad though with a official Nintendo controller.

 

[Shengar]

Yep, you guessed it: Frank Stallone.

Who the fuck is this guy?

They would be better off making a specific game controller for IOS and android devices. Playing snes games on a touchscreen is a terrible experience. I'd play Mario on my ipad though with a official Nintendo controller.

How much they'll charged it? $120? I'm swear this Apple tax is getting on my nerve.

 

[Billen]

So, my family is not the only one fed up with Mario, Zelda etc?

 

[mechphree]

Who the fuck is this guy?


How much they'll charged it? $120? I'm swear this Apple tax is getting on my nerve.

That would be only a few bucks higher then the official one at $99. I'd bite though , as long as their weren't any IAP and the games ran fine.

 

[clay_ghost]

Who the fuck is this guy?


How much they'll charged it? $120? I'm swear this Apple tax is getting on my nerve.

when other bad controller can sell For 100 , Nintendo can afford to sell more.


I hope they don't do anything with IOS and stick with their own portable.