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[TwEE-N-Toast]

I have the feeling that when a lot of people complain about Nintendo's lack of new IPs they mean Nintendo is no longer a great world builder but instead just rely on game mechanics. It's just a communication issue with those complaining and those defending Nintendo.

 

[MarkusRJR]

I think the problem is less about "no new IP" and more about "no new flagship IP" - that is, new IP that really can serve as the face of their platform. The Wii series was probably the only new IP that would qualify as a "flagship IP" that they introduced last generation. Splatoon might turn out to be pretty big on Wii U, but I'm not betting heavily on it.

This. Most of these new IP are lower budget affairs with little marketing budget.

I'd argue that the Wii Series, Brain Training, and Nintendogs are the only new flagship IP by Nintendo and the latter two (arguably all three) have already fizzled out in terms of sales and appeal due to the massive shift in casual audiences to iOS/Android.

When people say that there haven't been any new IP, usually they mean there hasn't been any new flagship IP that's catered to anyone beyond casual gamers. Xenoblade could have been a flagship IP had Nintendo backed it at all, but they instead ignored it as much as they could (at least out of Japan). Splatoon is probably the closest thing coming soon in terms of a new flagship IP, but it'll probably get very little marketing (and I'm curious as to how big/small the budget is).

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Rhythm Tengoku and Ouendan/EBA are some of my favorite series ever, at least Rhythm Tengoku seems to be popular.

 

[Son Of D]

and we are done. those listed games arent full fledged AAA games by nintendo.

oh and half of these games werent released in the west.

as for fling smash... worst game i played on wii.

Please tell me you're playing along with zroid's post.

 

[nephilimdj]

Brain training is misleading, Nintendo bought the rights to handhelds, namco released
川島教授の全脳トレ / Professor Kawashima’s Full Brain Training the same year on phones, Sega released some for 360/ps3 years later

Bonsai Barbers is another one, since Nintendo published it, believe studio Zoonami is dead outside of 2-3 employee's from memory though.

 

[UncleSporky]

As has been said, I like that they make a new IP for every new type of game. Pikmin is RTS. Dillon's Rolling Western is their tower defense representative. Pushmo is their platform/puzzle representative. And now they're entering multiplayer FPS with another new IP.

I would like some of the new franchises they've created to become more flagship. For example, I would like Dillon to get a full AAA retail treatment.

However, I don't get the complaint that they don't make more flagship IPs, because do you realize how long Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby have been around? It's incredibly difficult to make a new flagship IP with popularity on that level. Pikmin seems to be a rare exception.

 

[JCX]

It seems like they're trying to make Xenoblade into a flagship IP.

Yep, Shulk in Smash confirms that they want to throw this into their top tier release category. Crazy for a game they almost didn't bring over.

 

[Aostia]

When people says no IP..they should use other words, explaine the concept and stop misleading the meaning of the words. That would bring benefits to GAF and communicate a better feedback of our will to nintendo.
That is why I think the topic is usefull

 

[Joqu]

Games like Drill Dozer, Rhythm Heaven, Xenoblade, The Wonderful 101, Hotel Dusk, Fossil Fighters,... I'd argue those were all new IPs that could appeal to the core audience just fine tbh. Xenoblade actually did to be fair. S.T.E.A.M. and Splatoon aren't out yet but the same goes for those. Splatoon most likely actually will, GAF doesn't seem to be too hyped on S.T.E.A.M. for what it's worth.

Kid Icarus: Uprising might not be a new IP technically but it might as well be.

And really, those eShop games may be smaller in scope but other than that there isn't much of a reason to count them out.

Dillon's Rolling Western (which I really didn't enjoy but that's another matter), HarmoKnight and Pushmo are new IPs with enough of the Nintendo Charm™ or whatever you're looking for. I can see those growing bigger over time if Nintendo keeps them around.

 

[majik13]

Sell millions.

:v

...Unless it did? You could show receipts.

I thought it would have by now, but estimates have it around .86 million. wonder what it would have been had it been properly released inthe West. Surely it is now a major core IP though.

Another new IP:

The Denpa Men is Genius Sonority's IP.

Ah ok, I just remeber there being a direct. And was on my phone previsouly so was too lazy to check it.
There is still the Street Pass Mii Plaza games made by Nintendo SPD, and other devs.

and Face Raiders by HAL

Nothing too major, but I think the Street Pass Mii Plaza is notable.

 

[Morfeo]

We all know none of those count for [arbitrary reason].

 

[UncleSporky]

We all know none of those count for [arbitrary reason].

People want to be able to say "Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, [X], [Y], and [Z]," where XYZ are properties not invented in the 80s/90s. That's what it boils down to.

But I think that's a little ridiculous because nothing is ever going to compete with that pedigree. I'd certainly like to see them try a little more, but there needs to be some understanding on the other side too.

 

[TMaakkonen]

I thought it would have by now, but estimates have it around .86 million. wonder what it would have been had it been properly released inthe West. Surely it is now a major core IP though.

Yeah..... just dont. It isnt.

Remember other Nintendo core franchises? Like Metroid & StarFox? They have been quite... well lets just say they havent seen much action lately.

And then we have Xenoblade. Its just too small game/franchise. Unless Xenoblade Wii U does 1 mil relativly fast, I dont think Xenoblade counts as major core IP.

Hmmm, it does appear Nintendo core franchises are in rest & activity in different sets. Like how in early 2000s Metroid & Starfox was in highlight while there were no big/major Donkey Kong & Kirby games back then. And now it appears to have been switched.

 

[LegendofLex]

But I think that's a little ridiculous because nothing is ever going to compete with that pedigree. I'd certainly like to see them try a little more, but there needs to be some understanding on the other side too.

Sonic did a good job stealing Mario's thunder in the 90s.
There are lots of fantasy action-adventure/RPG games today that are more popular than Zelda.
Metroid is no longer the king of the "games for experienced gamers" category.

If other companies can make games that outshine Nintendo's, why can't Nintendo?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The list is surprisingly awful, particularly on the console side.

 

[Mik317]

To be fair, I think most people asking for new IPs are asking for IPs with the budget and push of a Mario or Zelda.

Nintendo often releases a lot of these games to die with no fanfare and lately a whole bunch of them are eshop or portable releases which get treated like not "real" games at times.

So with that in mind, the list is a lot smaller (conveniently) .

 

[UncleSporky]

Sonic did a good job stealing Mario's thunder in the 90s.
There are lots of fantasy action-adventure/RPG games today that are more popular than Zelda.
Metroid is no longer the king of the "games for experienced gamers" category.

If other companies can make games that outshine Nintendo's, why can't Nintendo?

I'm not talking about game quality, I'm talking about mental perception. It's incredibly difficult for them to make any game that occupies the same mental space as "Mario, Zelda, Metroid." I don't think Pikmin is there yet, and it's the best candidate. But it's only had 3 games and some representation in a few others. It hasn't broken into that mental space and it's what they've put the most effort into in that respect.

Nothing can reach those same heights.

 

[Lernaean]

Just bumping to applaud the initiative.
Good thread Aostia. It also reminded me games/dev teams i'd forgotten about and i'd love to see on WiiU.

 

[Koren]

To be fair, I think most people asking for new IPs are asking for IPs with the budget and push of a Mario or Zelda.

While I agree, I don't think there's a lot of new IP on any platform with a Mario/Zelda budget that doesn't involves, to some degree, violence or guns. Which doesn't fit well with Nintendo.

Is there a market for AAA(A) games (in term of budget) in line with Nintendo usual philosophy?

I fear that creating a game like Pikmin with 50 million budget is a pretty big risk. Of course, there were more often high-budget games with new IPs at Nintendo in the 90s, but a high-budget from the 90s is now quite a small budget.

 

[Coffee Dog]

To be fair, I think most people asking for new IPs are asking for IPs with the budget and push of a Mario or Zelda.

Nintendo often releases a lot of these games to die with no fanfare and lately a whole bunch of them are eshop or portable releases which get treated like not "real" games at times.

So with that in mind, the list is a lot smaller (conveniently) .

If Mario or Zelda were new IPs they'd bomb like the rest of them. The reason why new IPs have smaller budgets is because new ips don't sell unless they are incredibly safe.

 

[Aaron Strife]

"It doesn't count because Nintendo doesn't market it enough"

What the fuck guys? Play your goddamn video game, don't wait for the corporation to shove it down your throat.

 

[Joqu]

Man I don't know, if sales or mental perception or whatever are going to be your criteria for what makes a core IP you're gonna have to scratch a lot of games from your lists. These things can always change but Metroid & StarFox aren't the most relevant franchises these days and anything Wii U is gonna sell less than pretty numbers. Tropical Freeze wasn't doing too hot either last time I checked, is Donkey Kong off the list too? I mean I can see why you guys would discount certain Nintendo IPs but things like Xenoblade and Pikmin should totally count.

The fact that stuff like Metroid and Starfox get mentioned in here before Animal Crossing of all things should say a lot. Animal Crossing is huuuge.

I'm not saying those smaller guys shouldn't count. Not at all. But if you're going by that line of thinking it's only Mario, Zelda, Smash Brothers, Animal Crossing and Pokémon at that point which is fair enough but you're going to be waiting a long time if that's what you want.

 

[UncleSporky]

I think regardless of anything else, Splatoon should count for everyone at this point. It is clearly an AAA attempt. It's a full console release, it's new territory branching into online FPS, it's new characters in a new style. It's already inspired the masses who have made tons of fan art for it.

Forget sales or sequels or anything else. Splatoon "counts" no matter who you are. If it turns out to make no real impact and never gets a sequel, it still counts.

 

[Tomohawk]

When people say they want new IP, their usually talking about an IP that interests them. They probably want to phrase their complaints in a way that seems more noble and less selfish.

 

[Jawmuncher]

The issue I've had has never been that thy don't work on new stuff: it's just usual that new stuff isn't marketed well or it's not brought over here. We shouldn't have had to go through what we did for Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower, and Last Story.

 

[shauntu]

I like this thread.

I would like to suggest looking at WiiWare and DSiWare as well -- they fit the criteria!

A few to start with:
Art Style games (a few different ones)
Bansai Barber
Rock N' Roll Climber
Lonpos
You, Me, and the Cubes
Domo series (eg Hard-Hat Domo)
PictureBook series
Eco Shooter
Trajectile
Starship Defense
Number Battle
Link n' Launch
Spotto!
Grill Off w/ Ultra Hand
Photo Dojo
Looksley's Line Up
Metal Torrent
X-Scape (though this might be seen as a sequel to a really old game)
Flametail
A Kappa's Trail
Spin Six
AquaSpace
Face Pilot
Thruspace (which is technically the previous game to Ketzal's Corridor)
Snapdots
Snowpack Park

and someone already suggested Aura-Aura Climber

 

[shauntu]

Also, Master of Illusion on DS...

 

[shauntu]

Some more:

Maboshi's Arcade
True Swing Golf
Freakyforms
Pushmo
Tokyo Crash Mobs
Kersploosh!

 

[Shiggy]

Sight Training
Face Training
Classic Book Collection
Recipe Collection/elle a table
Wii Chess

 

[EulaCapra]

Out of all those new IP's listed, only three were popular enough to pull from to make Smash Bros. characters.

 

[shauntu]

Smash Bros is not just about playable characters, but also stages, Assist Trophies, and items... like Brawl had Nintendogs showing up and covering the screen...

 

[Aaronrules380]

Out of all those new IP's listed, only three were popular enough to pull from to make Smash Bros. characters.

This isn't really Nintendo's fault though

 

[Pinko Marx]

Is the new Toad game considered a new IP? Isn't that just building off the Mario IP?

 

[Outtrigger888]

Not sure if this has been posted on gaf yet..

From nintendoeverything.com

Nintendo has more “Garage” games in development like Splatoon

Nintendo is working on more “Garage” games similar in nature to Splatoon, Shigeru Miyamoto revealed in the latest issue of EDGE. Project Guard and Project Giant Robot also fall under the same category.

As reported by EDGE:

Splatoon and the three prototypes are the first games to emerge from Garage, a new Nintendo development programme set up last year in which developers break off into small teams and work on new ideas. “There are increasing numbers of young staff at Nintendo’s development studios these days,” Miyamoto says, “and these young guys really want to express themselves.” Work is done during office hours, but he compares Garage to an after-school club, in spirit if not in schedule. “Class time’s over: they gather together and think about new projects completely apart from their everyday business assignments. When all of those projects have advanced to a certain stage, we gather together and exchange opinions on the outcome of each of them, and together we decide which ones should continue. We may have shown several software titles at E3 [that came from Garage], but there are many others in development too.

Sounds like a great idea.

 

[Penguin]

Is the new Toad game considered a new IP? Isn't that just building off the Mario IP?

Spin-off within the Mario universe.

 

[ec0ec0]

All those games that people like to say that "dont count", are the ones that gave nintendo money to release the games that "count" so...

 

[shouamabane]

It's safer to spend more money on a game with Mario in it.

 

[Koren]

If Mario or Zelda were new IPs they'd bomb like the rest of them. The reason why new IPs have smaller budgets is because new ips don't sell unless they are incredibly safe.

That's (mostly) my guess.

There are exceptions, though, and I think Mario could well be a huge success if it was a new IP and something new (i mean, if it was 'a really good Rayman-like game', it would be really difficult).

I think we have to accept that anything that hasn't a large shot at a great success (means a game like Destiny, close enough to successful genre, able to appeal to the broad audience that like action games and FPS, backed by a HUGE marketing campaign) has to be a lower-budget attempt, or use weel-known IP/license.

I mean, even back in the 90s, many, many games count on a license to limit the risks, and at this time, a 'success' was requiring far less sales, because even high budget were limited.

I like when Nintendo brings new IP, but I don't expect them to gamble too much on a possible huge success for something completely new. And I don't mind seeing Mario if it helps sales, as long as the game is good, even if I also welcome new IPs as often as possible.

 

[ArcaneFreeze]

Im surprised this thread hasnt been modded yet lol.

 

[shauntu]

Why would it be modded?

 

[Aostia]

Why would it be modded?

my thoughts too :
happy that Opiate seems to have understood my topic

 

[ArcaneFreeze]

Why would it be modded?

Made a thread almost exactly like this a couple months ago about why nintendo ips "dont count cause reasons" and it was locked due to "no one has this view point and theres no evidence to support it"

 

[shauntu]

I think focus on this thread is to actually identify what are the new IPs, which is different.

 

[Datschge]

Calciobit (Nintendo Football Club)
platform: gba
developer: ParityBit

 

[wsippel]

The list is surprisingly awful, particularly on the console side.

Not at all. Quite a few awesome B- and C-tier titles. I've had a lot of fun with some of those titles - more than with most AAA games released in recent years.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Nintendo always produces new intellectual properties every generation. The problem is that most of those new intellectual properties are smaller budget and / or limited release titles (eshop or don't leave Japan).

Meanwhile, their best teams and highest budgets kind of go through the same perpetual cycle Which isn't a problem per say either, if Nintendo adequately increased their game staff in a more gradual manner that would compensate for that trend. Just now they seem to have some better strategies in place.

 

[Benzychenz]

I've always found the new IP argument to be odd.

I mean, half the 'new IPs' from other publishers are just the same old FPS/narrative driven TPS gameplay etc with a different cast/setting.

3D World could have starred kittens fighting a big mean dog that kidnapped the good fairies, but it would have just been a Mario clone anyway.

When Nintendo has a great new idea, they make a new IP.

Animal Crossing was, and it's become one of Nintendo's most popular series.
Pikmin was, and it has moderate sales and is a series Nintendo is proud of.
Same with Rhythm Heaven.
The Wii series was one of Nintendo's absolute biggest, but that seems to have died off.
Nintendogs was huge, as was Brain Training.
They seem to be trying to get Xenoblade up there, especially with Shulk in Smash.
And then there's Splatoon coming out next year.

Of course they do other stuff like Chibi Robo, Endless Ocean and the like that doesn't catch on and gets forgotten too.

 

[Karsticles]

I don't think people actually want new IP. They just want new experiences, and are happy to have old IP do that for them.

 

[Famassu]

right. but a game must have commercial success to become that. Wii series was, I think N hoped for other to become, but the market not always replies in a good way to new project. so, not always a flagship is determined by initial plans, but sometime it depends also on market response.
Btw, on the DS there were various flagship titles for that console, that were new IPs.
I think that the issues with Neogaf perception is more subtle. Probably it's not that there was no flagship new IP, but that the new falgship wasn't under those genres that neogaf loves.

You two basically explained it, when combining the explanations. It's not that Nintendo has done no new IPs, but the IPs aren't anything even remotely comparable to, say, how little Sony relies on even remotely Mario-like long lasting franchises and tries to push some new stuff like Heavy Rain, Journey, Beyond, Puppeteer, Rime, inFamous, Uncharted, Last of Us, Knack, Gravity Rush, Last Guardian, The Order etc. Nintendo's best new IPs are mostly stuff like Ouendan and Pushmo, which are great, but people would love for them to put as much effort into some new IP as they do towards every Zelda. And when Nintendo does hit it big, it's stuff like Wii Sports, which a lot of people don't care about if they could choose between Wii Sports and, say, Metroid Prime 4.

EDIT: Oh, and while it's great that Nintendo publishes games like Bayonetta 2 & The Wonderful 101, it's somewhat understandable if people keep them out of the "Nintendo does nothing but Mario" arguments. They aren't internally developed games, not in the same way as if Nintendo put Sakurai with a Smash Bros like big team to develop a completely new game series. People want to see the minds behind Zeldas, Marios, Metroids etc. on completely new things more in the way Naughty Dog has gone from Crash Bandicoot to Jak & Daxter to Uncharted to The Last of Us, instead of being stuck to old IPs.

Xenoblade is surely one of those. and looking at the treatment reserved to Xenoblade X I think that finally also NoA understood that ;p
Btw, a lot of people tend to look only at Splatoon, while I think that for different reasons, also Captain Toad and especially STEAM could be considered like that.

Captain Toad is a Mario spin-off with gameplay ripped straight from a mainline Mario game. I really wouldn't put him in the same realm of new IPs as Xenoblade or even Pushmo. It's still trying to push the Mario IP down people's throats.

 

[Yagharek]

OP is wrong including Animal Crossing DS. It started on N64 (JP only) then got a Gamecube version. The DS version was the third game.