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Nixon colluded with South Vietnam to sink LBJs Vietnam peace talks to win an election

Joe

Member
Cch8_DVh.png



The notes sourced in the article were quietly made public in 2007 by the Nixon Library but were only recently discovered by a biographer researching the former president.

Context: It's October 1968, Nixon is running against Hubert Humphrey for President, the election is a month away, and Nixon's lead over Humphrey is declining.

NYT: Nixon's Vietnam Treachery

  • Henry A. Kissinger called, alerting Nixon that a peace deal was in the works.
  • South Vietnamese president, Nguyen Van Thieu, feared that Johnson would sell him out. If Thieu would stall the talks, Nixon could portray Johnson's actions as a cheap political trick.
  • Nixon had a pipeline to Sout Vietnam: Anna Chennault, a Republican doyenne and Nixon fund-raiser, and a member of the pro-nationalist China lobby, with connections across Asia.
  • She ”contacted Vietnam Ambassador Bui Diem," one report from the surveillance noted, ”and advised him that she had received a message from her boss ... to give personally to the ambassador. She said the message was ... ‘Hold on. We are gonna win. ... Please tell your boss to hold on.' "
  • Nixon told Haldeman to have Rose Mary Woods, the candidate's personal secretary, contact another nationalist Chinese figure — the businessman Louis Kung — and have him press Thieu as well. ”Tell him hold firm," Nixon said.
  • ”My God. I would never do anything to encourage" South Vietnam ”not to come to the table," Nixon told Johnson, in a conversation captured on the White House taping system.
  • Now we know Nixon lied. A newfound cache of notes left by H. R. Haldeman, his closest aide, shows that Nixon directed his campaign's efforts to scuttle the peace talks, which he feared could give his opponent, Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, an edge in the 1968 election. On Oct. 22, 1968, he ordered Haldeman to ”monkey wrench" the initiative.
  • Throughout his life, Nixon feared disclosure of this skulduggery. ”I did nothing to undercut them," he told Frost in their 1977 interviews. Even after Watergate, he made it a point of character. ”I couldn't have done that in conscience."
  • Nixon had cause to lie. His actions appear to violate federal law, which prohibits private citizens from trying to ”defeat the measures of the United States." His lawyers fought throughout Nixon's life to keep the records of the 1968 campaign private.
  • When Johnson got word of Nixon's meddling, he ordered the F.B.I. to track Chennault's movements.
  • In a conversation with the Republican senator Everett Dirksen, the minority leader, Johnson lashed out about Nixon. ”I'm reading their hand, Everett," Johnson told his old friend. ”This is treason." ”I know," Dirksen said mournfully.
  • Johnson's closest aides urged him to unmask Nixon's actions. But on a Nov. 4 conference call, they concluded that they could not go public because, among other factors, they lacked the ”absolute proof," as Defense Secretary Clark Clifford put it, of Nixon's direct involvement. Nixon was elected president the next day.

TL;DR:
  • President Lyndon Johnson arranged a cease-fire and peace talks between the USA, North & South Vietnam, and the Soviet Union. Nixon is worried this will give his opponent, Humphrey, an edge in the election so he enlisted the help of his staff, Chinese nationalists, and the South Vietnamese President to "monkey-wrench" the peace talks.

Bonus:
  • The notes contain other gems, like Haldeman's notations of a promise, made by Nixon to Southern Republicans, that he would retreat on civil rights and ”lay off pro-Negro crap" if elected president. There are notes from Nixon's 1962 California gubernatorial campaign, in which he and his aides discuss the need to wiretap political foes.
---

I thought this was interesting story, especially with the backdrop of our current political calamity, and a good reminder to myself to never underestimate the levels people will sink to in the pursuit of power or money.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Posted in January
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1329751

And in 2015
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1079135

And in 2013
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524928&page=1

Though it never hurts for more people to be aware of this treason.

By the time of the election in November 1968, LBJ had evidence Nixon had sabotaged the Vietnam war peace talks - or, as he put it, that Nixon was guilty of treason and had "blood on his hands".

The president did let Humphrey know and gave him enough information to sink his opponent. But by then, a few days from the election, Humphrey had been told he had closed the gap with Nixon and would win the presidency. So Humphrey decided it would be too disruptive to the country to accuse the Republicans of treason, if the Democrats were going to win anyway.

Nixon ended his campaign by suggesting the administration war policy was in shambles. They couldn't even get the South Vietnamese to the negotiating table.

He won by less than 1% of the popular vote.

Once in office he escalated the war into Laos and Cambodia, with the loss of an additional 22,000 American lives, before finally settling for a peace agreement in 1973 that was within grasp in 1968.
 

CazTGG

Member
I...thought we knew this for a while? My history teacher in high school (Canada) talked about how Nixon sabotaged peace talks, saying that "he'd get them a better deal".
 

RinsFury

Member
Crooked bastard actually had the gall to say this a few years after Watergate:

Some people say I didn't handle it properly and they're right. I screwed it up. Mea culpa. But let's get on to my achievements. You'll be here in the year 2000 and we'll see how I'm regarded then.

It's 2017 and you're still regarded as a piece of shit. As you will be for the rest of recorded history.
 
Hmm this could be useful.

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 744; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(K), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953
 

Mimosa97

Member
Why wouldn't they just destroy all the notes/proof? Why work so hard to hide your treason and then just leave a footprint behind you knowing full well that they would be disclosed in a few decades.

I would just put nothing in writing and voilà! It looks so amateurish I don't get it.
 

RinsFury

Member
The US caused the deaths of probably a million Vietnamese or more and absolutely ravaged the country.

Well over a million killed.

Then there are the generations born with birth defects thanks to chemical weapons like agent orange.

If you haven't seen it, watch the Winter Soldier film for some insight into the crimes and atrocities visited upon the Vietnamese during that conflict. One of the most disturbing documentaries I ever watched.
 

Morat

Banned
Thanks for posting. I was vaguely aware that Nixon had attempted to sabotage peace talks, but did not realise that there was this kind of documentary evidence.
 

datbapple

Banned
Nixon was the devil. My grandfather got severe ptsd from Vietnam. All those lives lost and jacked up on both sides over some clown faced power hungry asshole wanting to be commander in chief

On another note, I wish this kind of stuff made its way to classrooms throughout the country. Having an understanding on the depths of fucked up our own government can have would help us prevent repeating the past and be more vigilant against charlatans and used care salesmen.
 

Ogodei

Member
This has been known. GOP colluding with foreign countries to win elections is not new to Trump. Nixon worked with South Vietnam and Reagan convinced the Iranians to hold off on releasing the hostages to make Carter look bad.
 

Randam

Member
Stumbled over Kennedy's diaries and his opinion over Nazi Germany and Hitler.
Wanted to make a thread about it, but then saw the info was also a few years old too.

Did we have that here already?
 

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
The real story is how Dems continue to underestimate how stupid the electorate are.

That is what you got out of this? Not the fact that Nixon would want to keep a war and all the related deaths going on in order to win an election? Not sure how to twist this as a jab at the Dems.
 
That is what you got out of this? Not the fact that Nixon would want to keep a war and all the related deaths going on in order to win an election? Not sure how to twist this as a jab at the Dems.

Humphrey would have got the peace talks if he brought Nixon's treason to light.

ACA wouldn't be in jeopardy if Obama brought up the Trump campaign's collusion with Russia to the public.
 

drawkcaB

Member
The president did let Humphrey know and gave him enough information to sink his opponent. But by then, a few days from the election, Humphrey had been told he had closed the gap with Nixon and would win the presidency. So Humphrey decided it would be too disruptive to the country to accuse the Republicans of treason, if the Democrats were going to win anyway.

Oh look, Humphrey went high.

Surely there can't have been any negative consequences from that. Even if there were, lesson learned!
 

danthefan

Member
Well over a million killed.

Then there are the generations born with birth defects thanks to chemical weapons like agent orange.

If you haven't seen it, watch the Winter Soldier film for some insight into the crimes and atrocities visited upon the Vietnamese during that conflict. One of the most disturbing documentaries I ever watched.

I've visited Vietnam and seen it. Beautiful country but still hasn't recovered from the war.

That probably wasn't their point. The point is that a lot of people died because Nixon sabotaged peace talks.

Yes, I thought that's what I was pointing out. It was an awful, awful lot more than 50,000. Just thinking about the Vietnam war makes my blood boil.
 

Triple Dash

Neo Member
Funny how history often repeats itself.

McConnell also gets bonus points for blocking Garland for as long as he did to keep the open SC seat on the ballot.
 

Cipherr

Member
That is what you got out of this? Not the fact that Nixon would want to keep a war and all the related deaths going on in order to win an election? Not sure how to twist this as a jab at the Dems.

If you can't defend the republicans on an issue. Find a way to attack the dems. It's like rule 1 of their playbook.
 

Damaniel

Banned
So that's two Republican presidents that definitely colluded directly with a foreign power to secure electoral victories (Nixon with Vietnam, Reagan with Iran), and one who we strongly suspect of it.

Cheating and dirty tricks are a staple of Republican electoral campaigns: news at 11.
 
In some alternate reality, we would have:
1961 - 1968: JFK
1969 - 1976: LBJ
1977 - 1980: Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter

Or possibly RFK in there somewhere too
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
The lesson needs to be:

If a major candidate for office is known to have colluded with a foreign power fucking OUT THEM no matter how sure you are you will win without doing so.
 

120v

Member
In some alternate reality, we would have:
1961 - 1968: JFK
1969 - 1976: LBJ
1977 - 1980: Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter

i doubt a democrat would've succeeded jfk... he was in for a rough ride had he survived. and lbj was in piss poor health by the time he left office. surely lot of it had to do with being in office but i doubt he had much longer either way
 

JABEE

Member
Vietnam was escalated by LBJ on a lie.

Fuck LBJ and Nixon. Neither party should be able to look back on the 60s with anything other than shame.

Watch as the police beat young people on the streets of Chicago protesting a party that sent boys to die for a lie.

Gulf of Tonkin

In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there were no North Vietnamese naval vessels present during the incident of August 4. The report stated, regarding the first incident on August 2, that "at 1500G,[note 1] Captain Herrick ordered Ogier's gun crews to open fire if the boats approached within ten thousand yards. At about 1505G,[note 1] Maddox fired three rounds to warn off the communist boats. This initial action was never reported by the Johnson administration, which insisted that the Vietnamese boats fired first."[3]
 

Randam

Member
Well over a million killed.

Then there are the generations born with birth defects thanks to chemical weapons like agent orange.

If you haven't seen it, watch the Winter Soldier film for some insight into the crimes and atrocities visited upon the Vietnamese during that conflict. One of the most disturbing documentaries I ever watched.
Wow.
Killing civilians, even women and children on what seems a daily basis.
How did nothing come from the winter soldier investigation?
 
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