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[Byakuya769]

I know the news story said a grand jury (which was presented with the evidence) decided to not issue charges. Why else would they do that unless evidence suggested that cops arrived, issued orders that the suspect ignored, and took down the perceived threat.

Outrage all you want. Walmart shouldn't be selling replicas of weapons.

Because they are unknowingly prejudiced against black people--particularly young, black men--and make rationalizations based on sub-concious racist feelings.

I hope this doesn't sound familiar, but you're going to bat pretty hard...

 

[Enzom21]

Someone earlier mentioned that the videos do not capture the moments where he was shot, either. Just before and immediately after. There's no way to tell if he was ignoring the police, or spun around with the gun or anything of the sort from the videos. If that's all there is, and the only other thing you have to go on is the officer's word, not really sure how to expect an indictment for that.

Like I said in the other thread, why the fuck are you allowed to pick a boxed air rifle (and a realistic looking one at that) off the shelf and walk it around the store on your own (where a customer might unbox it and walk around the store, or even load it)? How are these things not behind a case, and not walked up to the register by a sale associate? I guaranfuckingtee you they will be after this. If i were the guy's family, I'd be suing the shit out of wal-mart.

It wasn't boxed.

 

[Vestax]

It wasn't a rifle...

It was an "air" rifle, that looks like a real rifle or did I miss something?

 

[Corronchilejano]

Yes.

Video of him walking around the store.
http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law/special-grand-jury-selected-john-crawford-case/nhRwM/

Video of him being shot.
http://www.whio.com/videos/news/walmart-shooting-surveillance-video-captures/vCtB6Z/

He didn't even stand a chance. He got shot and then shot some more aparently?

 

[Big Baybee]

Since the po-po came in with their ARs, its a good possibility that the 911 caller reported an active shooter. Just a bad situation all around. Why would he carry a rifle around the store? That's just not a good idea.

To be fair, I'm sure he never thought he'd be brutally murdered while walking around with a toy gun.

 

[Enron]

It wasn't boxed.

That's even worse!

Everything ive seen online about this particular air rifle indicates it does have a box.

 

[DopeToast]

Are you sure it was about this case, or the Tony Stewart thing, where he won't be indicted for running down and killing a guy on the racetrack?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...cted-charged-in-kevin-ward-jr-death/15712979/

Positive. His profile picture has been a "Support Darren Wilson" photo for a while now. I've talked to him about the subject, and know how he feels.

 

[Enron]

It was an "air" rifle, that looks like a real rifle or did I miss something?

To be fair, I'm sure he never thought he'd be brutally murdered while walking around with a toy gun.

Well, its not just a "toy". An air rifle is definitely NOT a toy.

And this is what it looked like

 

[Vestax]

To be fair, I'm sure he never thought he'd be brutally murdered while walking around with a toy gun.

I agree. Let me reiterate, this is a senseless shooting, period.

However, why would he walk around a public place with an air rifle that appeared to be real? I mean, just why?

Was he looking for a clerk to purchase it or ask questions and didn't want some one to buy it instead?

This is the only reasoning I can't think of...and I'm not blaming, but with all the shootings that have occurred, it's not a good idea.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I agree. Let me reiterate, this is a senseless shooting, period.

However, why would he walk around a public place with an air rifle that appeared to be real? I mean, just why?

Was he looking for a clerk to purchase it or ask questions and didn't want some one to buy it instead?

This is the only reasoning I can't think of...and I'm not blaming, but with all the shootings that have occurred, it's not a good idea.

It was in the store. He got it from a shelf. He was shopping.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Zero fucking accountability.

this is why cops can't be trusted, especially if you are a minority.

They are rarely held accountable for their fuck ups.

It is not just cops though the whole justice system is just clown shoes. The entire justice system has proven time and again it can not be trusted at all to be fair or partial when minorities are involved. I hope walmart, the 911 caller, and the beaver creek police department all have law suits brought against them. Two people died that day needless and senselessly and no is gonna be held accountable for their deaths.

 

[Big Baybee]

Well, its not just a "toy". An air rifle is definitely NOT a toy.

And this is what it looked like

What would you classify it as? And honestly I don't give a shit about how it looked.

 

[Enzom21]

I agree. Let me reiterate, this is a senseless shooting, period.

However, why would he walk around a public place with an air rifle that appeared to be real? I mean, just why?

Was he looking for a clerk to purchase it or ask questions and didn't want some one to buy it instead?

This is the only reasoning I can't think of...and I'm not blaming, but with all the shootings that have occurred, it's not a good idea.

He was going to buy it?

 

[outunderthestars]

It was in the store. He got it from a shelf. He was shopping.

Which is why the family really should sue both Walmart and the manufacturer of the toy.

 

[soundahfekz]

No.



Of course not. I never supported what the police did.

Just gonna skip over my question?

Again, why is that you only show up when you feel there's justification of the police killing a black person?

 

[Byakuya769]

He was going to buy it?

Knowing the perception of young black men and guns, why? I mean we have to ask these questions! Why would he do something he was completely in his right to do as if he's not black?

Sad that he died. But I just wish he understood how dangerous being black is. Someone should go tell him.

 

[Enzom21]

Which is why the family really should sue both Walmart and the manufacturer of the toy.

And the police department and the 911 caller.

 

[turtle553]

He didn't even stand a chance. He got shot and then shot some more aparently?

He was only shot twice according to the press conference. Once in the elbow and once in the liver. No shots followed once he dropped the gun.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I agree. Let me reiterate, this is a senseless shooting, period.

However, why would he walk around a public place with an air rifle that appeared to be real? I mean, just why?

Was he looking for a clerk to purchase it or ask questions and didn't want some one to buy it instead?

This is the only reasoning I can't think of...and I'm not blaming, but with all the shootings that have occurred, it's not a good idea.

So, we should shop differently..because of other shootings? In America? Our rights/way to live must be different? Shit..thought we did that enough. I'm not saying you're blaming, just hoping you understand..

 

[sc0la]

Looks like he didn't even know the cops were there when the first shots were fired :/

Disgusting.

At least this puts to rest the idea that Michael Brown would get justice if there had been video.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Knowing the perception of young black men and guns, why? I mean we have to ask these questions! Why would he do something he was completely in his right to do as if he's not black?

Sad that he died. But I just wish he understood how dangerous being black is. Someone should go tell him.

In certain his mother and father already did..assuming his father was in the picture. Pretty rare..

 

[outunderthestars]

And the police department and the 911 caller.

I'd be ok with that as well.

That said, I really do think it is time to start regulating these airsoft/bb guns more closely. There is no reason to make a toy gun that resembles an actual weapon.

 

[joelseph]

In certain his mother and father already did..assuming his father was in the picture. Pretty rare..

dude wtf, show some respect for the family.

 

[Enron]

What would you classify it as? And honestly I don't give a shit about how it looked.

Considering that it shoots a .177 caliber pellet at 750-800 fps (some .22 cal short rounds are 800 fps, although heavier - and we don't consider those a toy) which is enough to kill small game and penetrate human flesh, I would consider that a weapon.

 

[Stinkles]

In certain his mother and father already did..assuming his father was in the picture. Pretty rare..

wat

 

[Byakuya769]

dude wtf, show some respect for the family.

Follow the conversation. We're coping with this same old bullshit happening to us, over and over again.

GORDON WAS BEING FACETIOUS.

 

[soundahfekz]

Considering that it shoots a .177 caliber pellet at 750-800 fps (some .22 cal short rounds are 800 fps, although heavier - and we don't consider those a toy) which is enough to kill small game and penetrate human flesh, I would consider that a weapon.

He should've just went to starbucks instead

 

[Strictly]

It's just shocking to see the state of race relations in America. Shocking!

Just once it would be nice to see some justice.

 

[Vestax]

He was going to buy it?

Are you asking me or are you making a statement?

If he was going to buy it, that's what I'm asking...was he looking for a clerk while holding on to the rifle?

So, we should shop differently..because of other shootings? In America? Our rights/way to live must be different? Shit..thought we did that enough. I'm not saying you're blaming, just hoping you understand..

I get what you're saying, but I (this is just me) just don't think I can walk around with an air rifle, that looks like a real rifle, in a public place. I know if I saw someone with an air rifle (that looks real) while shopping at Target, I'd fucking look for cover or something.

That's just me tho....but then again, I'm the type of guy that double-checks if my car is locked, when I walk away.

 

[Enzom21]

Knowing the perception of young black men and guns, why? I mean we have to ask these questions! Why would he do something he was completely in his right to do as if he's not black?

Sad that he died. But I just wish he understood how dangerous being black is. Someone should go tell him.

It's ridiculous that he questioned why he would have an item ready to purchase in a store that sells said item. That was the most roundabout victim blaming that I have ever seen.

Are you asking me or are you making a statement?

If he was going to buy it, that's what I'm asking...was he looking for a clerk while holding on to the rifle?



I get what you're saying, but I (this is just me) just don't think I can walk around with an air rifle, that looks like a real rifle, in a public place. I know if I saw someone with an air rifle (that looks real) while shopping at Target, I'd fucking look for cover or something.

That's just me tho....but then again, I'm the type of guy that double-checks if my car is locked, when I walk away.

Why fuck would he need to look for a clerk?! He was talking on his phone shopping, he picked up the item the way it was in the store. Stop trying to blame him for his own death.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Follow the conversation. We're coping with this same old bullshit happening to us, over and over again.

GORDON WAS BEING FACETIOUS.

Me!? Naaaah..

 

[timetokill]

Positive. His profile picture has been a "Support Darren Wilson" photo for a while now. I've talked to him about the subject, and know how he feels.

Yuck. Considered a defriending?

 

[BronsonLee]

I'm curious since it isn't mentioned; is this just in regards to the cops? I believe it is. In that case, we may just be getting started. And the civil stuff is surely coming down the pike.

 

[Vestax]

Why fuck would he need to look for a clerk?! He was talking on his phone shopping, he picked up the item the way it was in the store. Stop trying to blame him for his own death.

That's YOU saying it, not me. I feel for his family, it's a senseless shooting.

If YOU can't see anything awkward in walking around a public place with an air rifle (that looks real to the naked eye), then that's that.

Moving on...

 

[Omegasquash]

In certain his mother and father already did..assuming his father was in the picture. Pretty rare..

God dammit Gordon I was all heated and then I saw who posted it.

I've stayed out of discussion on the topic, because I wanted to see the video. Why am I not surprised at what I saw? Unless that footage was skippy as shit and missed about 15 seconds of footage wherein Crawford told the officers he was out for blood, then there's no reason he should have been shot.

But let's AAAAAAAALL talk about how he shouldn't have walked around the store with it. Because we AAAAAAAALL know that the same thing would have happened to a white kid, right?

 

[joelseph]

Follow the conversation. We're coping with this same old bullshit happening to us, over and over again.

GORDON WAS BEING FACETIOUS.

I don't know dude personally so please excuse me. I will make note to treat Gordon correctly in race related threads from this day forward.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

How is this even possible? The officers involved should be in jail and suffering.

Let's be honest, it's because the cops were white, the prosecutor was white, the judge was white, and the majority of the jury was white.

Of course the racists and white supremacists will say it has nothing to do with race, but the loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong history of unarmed black men being targeted by white police officers and being never being convicted of a crime is so well documented that it's pretty pointless to even argue it at this point.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Considering that it shoots a .177 caliber pellet at 750-800 fps (some .22 cal short rounds are 800 fps, although heavier - and we don't consider those a toy) which is enough to kill small game and penetrate human flesh, I would consider that a weapon.

Stop with the bs it does not really matter whether or not it was a real weapon seeing as ohio is open carry and he did not break any laws. They even admitted he did nothing wrong he just happened to be shopping in beaver creek ohio a city that is 90 percent white and has 957 well 956 black people in it. It was just not his day everyone around him acted like fools and he and the poor lady who died of heart failure payed for it.

 

[Big Baybee]

That's YOU saying it, not me. I feel for his family, it's a senseless shooting.

If YOU can't see anything awkward in walking around a public place with an air rifle (that looks real to the naked eye), then that's that.

Moving on...

Moving on to what? This whole thread is about a guy being shot for holding a product that a store sells. What else is there to move on to?

This is like blaming a girl for being raped because she had on a short skirt and was asking for it.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Stuff.

Listen, I do the same..I'd DO the same. I just can't, for the life of me, understand WHY we have to be seen differently doing the same shit others do because of a little color. It's insanity. It's unfair. It hurts..

 

[J10]

That's YOU saying it, not me. I feel for his family, it's a senseless shooting.

If YOU can't see anything awkward in walking around a public place with an air rifle (that looks real to the naked eye), then that's that.

Moving on...

The gun was being sold in the public place he was carrying it. The man was supposed to carry it to the register via telekinesis? You know how ridiculous you sound right now?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Which is why the family really should sue both Walmart and the manufacturer of the toy.

Sue Wal Mart for what? and the manufacturer? On what grounds?

First of all what employee told the police there was an emergency, when the police arrived and saw no signs of shots fired...why didnt they go to the front desk and find out whats going on , thats why the desk is there, along with the loss protection and video cams. No one can decide their intentionality of course not because they were responding to a call. But they did kill him, and acted poorly and made bad decisions on duty they cant be absolved. They were involved the second they took the word of a witness as valid ...one damn witness is not valid.

He's dead because he's black. Period.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Greater than the scope of this tragedy, can anyone justify the cognitive dissonance of a state/country that would simultaneously endorse

1) Open Carry + Police shooting first and asking questions later?

2) Castle Doctrine + Stand Your Ground + No Knock Raids?

Is there any way that these combinations don't end up in innocents dying? But people will aggressively defend all of these institutions and chalk up all of the bodies as collateral damage in the battle for "freedom."

 

[Byakuya769]

Greater than the scope of this tragedy, can anyone justify the cognitive dissonance of a state/country that would simultaneously endorse

1) Open Carry + Police shooting first and asking questions later?

2) Castle Doctrine + Stand Your Ground + No Knock Raids?

Is there any way that these combinations don't end up in innocents dying? But people will aggressively defend all of these institutions and chalk up all of the bodies as collateral damage in the battle for "freedom."

What bodies? Black bodies don't reflect as much light, can't see them.

 

[Kettch]

Someone earlier mentioned that the videos do not capture the moments where he was shot, either. Just before and immediately after. There's no way to tell if he was ignoring the police, or spun around with the gun or anything of the sort from the videos. If that's all there is, and the only other thing you have to go on is the officer's word, not really sure how to expect an indictment for that.

Like I said in the other thread, why the fuck are you allowed to pick a boxed air rifle (and a realistic looking one at that) off the shelf and walk it around the store on your own (where a customer might unbox it and walk around the store, or even load it)? How are these things not behind a case, and not walked up to the register by a sale associate? I guaranfuckingtee you they will be after this. If i were the guy's family, I'd be suing the shit out of wal-mart.

That was me. Here's the relevant video of what the prosecutor says was the shooting:

http://www.whio.com/videos/news/walmart-shooting-in-store-video-shows-crawford/vCtBwq/

It looks pretty clear to me that he doesn't spin around with the gun. In fact he isn't even facing the officers when they shot him. I find it really hard to believe that they gave him a reasonable amount of time to respond to any orders.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Sue Wal Mart for what? and the manufacturer? On what grounds?

Walmart is liable because the bb gun was supposed to be in its packaging. It was just left out on the shelf and john crawford picked it up.

 

[Kinyou]

Well, its not just a "toy". An air rifle is definitely NOT a toy.

And this is what it looked like

It seems kind of wrong how realistic looking those are. What happened to the orange tip?

Not that it would matter that much, considering how Ohio also allows open carry

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

He didn't even time to respond. He's standing there, then he falls over. He had no reaction, aggressive or compliant, to the officers, or even any hint that he knew they were there. How the fuck is this even remotely defensible?

 

[Siegcram]

Walmart is liable because the bb gun was supposed to be in its packaging. It was just left out on the shelf and john crawford picked it up.

And how exactly makes that Walmart liable when you're legally allowed to carry around an actual rifle without legal repercussions? I'm no lawyer (thank god) and I could rip that argument to shreds.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I wrote something witty, but I can't hide my sadness with sarcasm anymore.