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[Jobbs]

The "No-one's Sky" panel at PAX Aus was recorded, and I found it a very interesting discussion from an academic perspective (and includes "hi, I'm from reddit" questioner of course). Panel starts at about 19:00. https://www.twitch.tv/pax2/v/99052585

For being academics they said some really uninformed and dumb things. They said the NMS developers were utterly consistent on what they were making and all the hype and unreal expectations were created by fans (hahahhahaha) and then they pointed out how it's strange people expect games to have a certain number of hours of entertainment when people don't view movies that way... Games and movies are different and games cost $60.. Movies don't...

Probably should research topic before holding panel

edit: now they're saying of the radio silence "they don't owe us anything" hahahahaha

wow

 

[r1chard]

For being academics they said some really uninformed and dumb things. They said the NMS developers were utterly consistent on what they were making and all the hype and unreal expectations were created by fans (hahahhahaha) and then they pointed out how it's strange people expect games to have a certain number of hours of entertainment when people don't view movies that way... Games and movies are different and games cost $60.. Movies don't...

Probably should research topic before holding panel

edit: now they're saying of the radio silence "they don't owe us anything" hahahahaha

wow

I think it's clear they researched the topic. Sorry their conclusions (which I think you've misunderstood or misrepresented) don't match yours (or mine).

Anyway, get what you want out of the panel. If you want to continue to rage, then please, don't let me stop you

 

[Jobbs]

I think it's clear they researched the topic. Sorry their conclusions (which I think you've misunderstood or misrepresented) don't match yours (or mine).

Anyway, get what you want out of the panel. If you want to continue to rage, then please, don't let me stop you

I actually listened to the entire thing and I didn't misunderstand or misrepresent. I'm guessing you didn't actually listen to it or are just being obtuse.

 

[r1chard]

I actually listened to the entire thing and I didn't misunderstand or misrepresent. I'm guessing you didn't actually listen to it or are just being obtuse.

I was in the audience and I've re-watched the video :-D

Oh, though I should be clear, I don't disagree that they said the devs "don't owe us anything" and I agree with them on that.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I think there's such huge potential.. For everything terrible I've said about this game -- because as a $60 retail game I do think it's abysmal -- but there's just so much potential for what could be built within this framework.

The game wasn't only missing a sense of purpose but a sense of danger. There ought to be some real risk/reward -- dangerous places to go but with better rewards. That kind of stuff.

A universe without danger falls flat. You need danger.

Sadly I don't think they'll be iterating on it. The devs are MIA.

You can't even crash your ship on a planet.
*smh*

 

[somme]

I saw 65daysofstatic live in London the other night. It was a small venue but they made it sound like a stadium. They were really good.

I imagine all the UK fans of NMS were in that room. Haha.

 

[NH Apache]

http://www.inquisitr.com/3719874/he...-mans-sky-is-game-doomed/#yZb8oKrOWelzPZfS.99

iDigital Times reported this week that longtime Hello Games designer Gareth Bourn has just signed out of his post at Hello Games and transferred to developer Foundry42.

Left NMS to work on Star Citizen.

Now I'm wondering if there's going to be an update at all.

 

[eyeball_kid]

http://www.inquisitr.com/3719874/he...-mans-sky-is-game-doomed/#yZb8oKrOWelzPZfS.99

Left NMS to work on Star Citizen.

Now I'm wondering if there's going to be an update at all.

Wasn't that the guy who was arguing with Sean about getting rid of the realism during development? Perhaps there was ongoing friction about the direction of the game.

 

[Jobbs]

Now I'm wondering if there's going to be an update at all.

LOL at anyone thinking there are going to be content updates.

The game is *toxic*. Look at the steam page. It's over. They aren't going to waste their time. If they were going to be trying to somehow fix this they'd be communicating. Please sto being naive.

 

[MikeyB]

LOL at anyone thinking there are going to be content updates.

The game is *toxic*. Look at the steam page. It's over. They aren't going to waste their time. If they were going to be trying to somehow fix this they'd be communicating. Please sto being naive.

It's true and sort of sad. Animal Crossing: New Leaf got a major update years after release. But it probably has more active players with way more hours per player.

 

[Zombie James]

LOL at anyone thinking there are going to be content updates.

The game is *toxic*. Look at the steam page. It's over. They aren't going to waste their time. If they were going to be trying to somehow fix this they'd be communicating. Please sto being naive.

They did communicate they were working on content updates, and (iirc) Shawn Layden reiterated that two weeks ago on Geoff's Youtube show.

 

[Jobbs]

They did communicate they were working on content updates, and (iirc) Shawn Layden reiterated that two weeks ago on Geoff's Youtube show.

They did? All I see is radio silence other than the one weird incident where they acted like children.

It's not gonna happen. If you expect a content update you are not living in reality.

 

[Liamc723]

They did? All I see is radio silence other than the one weird incident where they acted like children.

It's not gonna happen. If you expect a content update you are not living in reality.

http://www.no-mans-sky.com/2016/09/development-update/

What matters now, as always, is what we do rather than what we say. We’re developers, and our focus is first on resolving any issues people have with the game as it is, then on future free updates which will improve, expand and build on the No Man’s Sky universe.

 

[Zombie James]

They did?

Yes? Shortly after launch they talked about adding home bases and freighters on their blog, an employee mentioned working on content updates on Twitter some time after that, and (again) Shawn Layden said so less than two weeks ago.

 

[Schlorgan]

Yes? Shortly after launch they talked about adding home bases and freighters on their blog, an employee mentioned working on content updates on Twitter some time after that, and (again) Shawn Layden said so less than two weeks ago.

I think if we get to March and still haven't heard anything, nothing's happening.

 

[Jobbs]

Do you see how toxic the game has become? Have you noticed it's record setting negative reviews on steam?

I say one more time: it's over. You're living in a fantasy if you are waiting on content updates.

 

[Zombie James]

I think if we get to March and still haven't heard anything, nothing's happening.

I'll give them till February, six months after launch.

 

[OverdriveOtaku]

Is it becoming a trend for struggling games to get their OTs back into Gaming Discussion from Community? First Street Fighter V, now No Man's Sky.

On topic: still feels incredibly petty that Hello Games haven't really talked that much since release, but at this point I'm not surprised anymore. Interesting to see a designer jump ship to work on Star Citizen though.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Do you see how toxic the game has become? Have you noticed it's record setting negative reviews on steam?

I say one more time: it's over. You're living in a fantasy if you are waiting on content updates.

That's a terrible excuse to give up on the game. They should be working to turn this around; giving up on it sets an even worse precedent for future projects.

It would be nice if they weren't so silent about it all but, as people have said previously, it's not hard to understand why they don't want to engage with us, because of the reactions to the game and the unrelenting mocking, which is the only really toxic thing about all this.

 

[Jobbs]

That's a terrible excuse to give up on the game. They should be working to turn this around; giving up on it sets an even worse precedent for future projects.

It would be nice if they weren't so silent about it all but, as people have said previously, it's not hard to understand why they don't want to engage with us, because of the reactions to the game and the unrelenting mocking, which is the only really toxic thing about all this.

No. Talking endless shit about their brilliant game and claiming credit for things they never did then releasing a big piece of shit is toxic. They made their own bed and if they wanted to fix this they would have been out in front from the start, owning up to shortcomings and offering a vision for the future. This wound is festering because they let it. People are very, very forgiving if you just speak honestly and humbly to them.

There will never be a content update.

 

[neoemonk]

If FF XIV can turn it around maybe this can. No Man's Sky was 100 times better at launch than FF XIV 1.0.

 

[Pie and Beans]

There was a point to releasing content for this in like October/November, but since there's probably nothing planned for the rest of this year, whats the fucking point?

A game like this was presumed to have a Minecraft model of adding little bits and pieces of new animals, tech, and so on throughout a year. They can't even get shit in that was in previous playable builds in any sort of good speed, so honestly the pipeline is fucked and so is this game.

They really fucked this up. Murray shouldn't head a game again.

 

[c0Zm1c]

No. Talking endless shit about their brilliant game and claiming credit for things they never did then releasing a big piece of shit is toxic. They made their own bed and if they wanted to fix this they would have been out in front from the start, owning up to shortcomings and offering a vision for the future. This wound is festering because they let it. People are very, very forgiving if you just speak honestly and humbly to them.

There will never be a content update.

The only people who can be forgiving are those with a more positive outlook, those who actually want Hello Games to continue working on the game and turn it around into something great - though I imagine it's mostly just those who liked the game anyway - and that's clearly not you.

Again as others have said, in past threads, if Sean did come out and speak honestly and humbly it would just be twisted into something negative, so what would be the point?

 

[Brannon]

No. Talking endless shit about their brilliant game and claiming credit for things they never did then releasing a big piece of shit is toxic. They made their own bed and if they wanted to fix this they would have been out in front from the start, owning up to shortcomings and offering a vision for the future. This wound is festering because they let it. People are very, very forgiving if you just speak honestly and humbly to them.

There will never be a content update.

If FF XIV can turn it around maybe this can. No Man's Sky was 100 times better at launch than FF XIV 1.0.

Damn, got it in one. By all rights FFXIV should be dead as dirt. MMOs are not supposed to come back from whatever the hell 1.0 was, and yet they came out front, took their lumps, said what they were going to do to fix it; COMMUNICATED while they fixed it, and now, it's a well-beloved darling.

None of this matters though, because I agree that the ship has long sailed, and there will be no massive update. Will be glad to eat the crow, but I think I'll be going hungry.

fake edit A SUBSCRIPTION MMO WTF

 

[Jobbs]

The only people who can be forgiving are those with a more positive outlook, those who actually want Hello Games to continue working on the game and turn it around into something great - though I imagine it's mostly just those who liked the game anyway - and that's clearly not you.

Again as others have said, in past threads, if Sean did come out and speak honestly and humbly it would just be twisted into something negative, so what would be the point?

Ive never seen anything like this. You still defend their decisions.

And it's simply wrong. This fire burned out if control because they didn't do anything to stop it. If they were engaged with their audience from the time the game came out they actually could have salvaged this. Instead we get radio silence (other than a strange super unprofessional outburst on twitter that they never explained) and no updates and you somehow still defend them?

When you have a crisis, shutting down communication is never the answer

 

[somme]

After they got hacked the other week they tweeted "back to work!"

It'd make much more sense to work on updates to NMS that a whole new project.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

💪💪💪

 

[foolishoptimist]

You can't even crash your ship on a planet.
*smh*

Sean mentioned in an interview that they wanted to make sure take off and landing weren't enormous challenges like in some other more hardcore space sims, which I can kinda understand. You do that heaps, but being unable to crash if you're flying recklessly really takes away from the thrill of flying that this game should have, but doesn't.

Even if there was a non-default option to disable that safety barrier, it'd make flying loads more fun to me.

I wonder if it's not simply bad game design decisions, but performance issues related to doing collision detection on the procedurally generated terrain.

 

[vpance]

Will start playing again after a Pro patch. Take your time Sean.

 

[Gattsu25]

When is this thread going to the gaming community forum?

Not often that a 3 month old game stays on Gaming unless the thread generates 100s of posts a day.

 

[meerak]

Just a note to say I still play NMS every now and then in short bursts. Pretty awesome game all in all when you just want to chill.

If this post makes you either happy or angry, you probably care too much.

 

[2blackcats]

Will start playing again after a Pro patch. Take your time Sean.

Yeah, hope we get a Pro patch too.

I really hope they are still working on it. That was always the plan I think, they get to continue working on it if it was successful.

I still see it pop up as being played on my friends list.

 

[Jobbs]

Will start playing again after a Pro patch. Take your time Sean.

lol

 

[Alebrije]

People still think this game will have a pro pach , good luck

 

[Z3M0G]

http://www.no-mans-sky.com/2016/09/development-update/

Things have been waaaaay too quiet since that update.

Daily active players are likely in the dozens. The new content wouldn't bring anyone back.

 

[The Elite]

Final she'd up the platinum finally. Actually still find myself enjoying the game in bursts. It's in desperate need of new content though.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Ive never seen anything like this. You still defend their decisions.

And it's simply wrong. This fire burned out if control because they didn't do anything to stop it. If they were engaged with their audience from the time the game came out they actually could have salvaged this. Instead we get radio silence (other than a strange super unprofessional outburst on twitter that they never explained) and no updates and you somehow still defend them?

When you have a crisis, shutting down communication is never the answer

I wouldn't say I'm defending them, just understanding why they might not want to engage with us. It was a PR disaster. We all get that, and any further discussion on that front is just going to add more fuel to the fire, honest and humble or otherwise.

I'll point out that I did say "it would be nice if they weren't so silent about it all.." and I was speaking specifically about what is going on with their work on the game at this point, and as someone who is still very much interested in the game.

 

[Jobbs]

I wouldn't say I'm defending them, just understanding why they might not want to engage with us. It was a PR disaster. We all get that, and any further discussion on that front is just going to add more fuel to the fire, honest and humble or otherwise.

I'll point out that I did say "it would be nice if they weren't so silent about it all.." and I was speaking specifically about what is going on with their work on the game at this point, and as someone who is still very much interested in the game.

This is simply wrong. If they were engaged and responsive and talking about what they're doing next they'd be much better positioned now. Much better. You think that because some people would respond to them negatively that it wouldn't be worth it? You're wrong. Some people still defend them even after how they've handled it in the absolute worst way possible, solidifying my point that most people are actually really forgiving if you are nice to them.

I'm a perfect example. This thing is a mess. They lied, they misrepresented, they handled it terribly, and the game is a hot turd. But I'd actually be sympathetic to them and open to seeing what's next if they had communicated properly and owned up to their mistakes. They didn't. You're simply wrong that radio silence is best. It's not. It's only best if you have absolutely no plans of ever updating the game with new features and content, which I strongly suspect to be the case.

 

[JCH!]

Having bought this on launch day, I'm pretty much over the massive disappointment this game was.

I never was one of those 'Sean lied to us! He is literally Satan!' guys. I feel it's more on us as consumers to be informed about the product we're buying. Hello Games is a business in the end and, like every other business, is just in this for the money.

All this game did was teach me not to buy into the hype, especially from unproven devs. Lesson learned, I guess.

Edit: lol @ those of you expecting updates.

 

[foolishoptimist]

This is simply wrong. If they were engaged and responsive and talking about what they're doing next they'd be much better positioned now. Much better. You think that because some people would respond to them negatively that it wouldn't be worth it? You're wrong. Some people still defend them even after how they've handled it in the absolute worst way possible, solidifying my point that most people are actually really forgiving if you are nice to them.

I'm a perfect example. This thing is a mess. They lied, they misrepresented, they handled it terribly, and the game is a hot turd. But I'd actually be sympathetic to them and open to seeing what's next if they had communicated properly and owned up to their mistakes. They didn't. You're simply wrong that radio silence is best. It's not. It's only best if you have absolutely no plans of ever updating the game with new features and content, which I strongly suspect to be the case.

But they've made some statements, to the effect of "yes we're still working on it".

IMO anything less than "We've just released an update with the following (missing) features added: ..." is going to be met with skepticism and scorn, and just rehash all the previous discussions about the faults with the game and it's PR.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Things have been waaaaay too quiet since that update.

Daily active players are likely in the dozens. The new content wouldn't bring anyone back.

To be a fly on the wall at Hello Games. I wonder if their plans have shifted over time. If they planned on having a large active user base they could keep engaged with small content and feature updates - and then that user base fled en masse after launch. The bar for what it would take to bring them back goes up - as you said, a 'new animal' update would not bring back lapsed users. So do they hunker down and really rebuild the game, or move on?

They've said the former, but right now it feels like the latter.

 

[c0Zm1c]

This is simply wrong. If they were engaged and responsive and talking about what they're doing next they'd be much better positioned now. Much better. You think that because some people would respond to them negatively that it wouldn't be worth it? You're wrong. Some people still defend them even after how they've handled it in the absolute worst way possible, solidifying my point that most people are actually really forgiving if you are nice to them.

I'm a perfect example. This thing is a mess. They lied, they misrepresented, they handled it terribly, and the game is a hot turd. But I'd actually be sympathetic to them and open to seeing what's next if they had communicated properly and owned up to their mistakes. They didn't. You're simply wrong that radio silence is best. It's not. It's only best if you have absolutely no plans of ever updating the game with new features and content, which I strongly suspect to be the case.

I questioned what would be the point, I did not say "radio silence is best"!

This is an example of things said being twisted, which again is what would happen if they did come forward and comment on the game. :\

 

[2blackcats]

To be a fly on the wall at Hello Games. I wonder if their plans have shifted over time. If they planned on having a large active user base they could keep engaged with small content and feature updates - and then that user base fled en masse after launch. The bar for what it would take to bring them back goes up - as you said, a 'new animal' update would not bring back lapsed users. So do they hunker down and really rebuild the game, or move on?

They've said the former, but right now it feels like the latter.

I'd love to know what % of sales were digital. Loads of people still have the game and it's quite a small download.

I hope they keep the faith and are still working on new content.

I was expecting lots of little updates but I'd be happy with one big one (or more).

 

[Jobbs]

I questioned what would be the point, I did not say "radio silence is best"!

This is an example of things said being twisted, which again is what would happen if they did come forward and comment on the game. :\

The point is that transparency and communication is the best route following releasing a game that in no way resembles the game you've been hyping up for years.

If you think that's wrong, well, how could it possibly be worse? I've never seen a game that is more toxic than NMS

 

[c0Zm1c]

To be a fly on the wall at Hello Games. I wonder if their plans have shifted over time. If they planned on having a large active user base they could keep engaged with small content and feature updates - and then that user base fled en masse after launch. The bar for what it would take to bring them back goes up - as you said, a 'new animal' update would not bring back lapsed users. So do they hunker down and really rebuild the game, or move on?

They've said the former, but right now it feels like the latter.

Base building is something that a lot of people wanted, and it's something that was mentioned on the website for a future update. It could bring a few back, but I can't help thinking they would be adding it to the game simply because people requested it, rather than it being a worthwhile addition. In an exploration game that's about moving from star system to star system, it's not something I ever wanted.

 

[Zombie James]

Base building is something that a lot of people wanted, and it's something that was mentioned on the website for a future update. It could bring a few back, but I can't help thinking they would be adding it to the game simply because people requested it, rather than it being a worthwhile addition. In an exploration game that's about moving from star system to star system, it's not something I ever wanted.

Even back when the game launched and base building was first mentioned, I didn't think it made much sense in the context of the game. As it is, it's about exploration and moving deeper into a galaxy, not setting up roots.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Even back when the game launched and base building was first mentioned, I didn't think it made much sense in the context of the game. As it is, it's about exploration and moving deeper into a galaxy, not setting up roots.

Yeah I think if they are to add base building then it should be accompanied by a reason to build bases.

Having our own freighters is more appealing.

 

[TemplaerDude]

Sean mentioned in an interview that they wanted to make sure take off and landing weren't enormous challenges like in some other more hardcore space sims, which I can kinda understand. You do that heaps, but being unable to crash if you're flying recklessly really takes away from the thrill of flying that this game should have, but doesn't.

Even if there was a non-default option to disable that safety barrier, it'd make flying loads more fun to me.

I wonder if it's not simply bad game design decisions, but performance issues related to doing collision detection on the procedurally generated terrain.

Frankly, I think it was shitty, late QA. I don't know if it was Sony or their own in-house QA, but that decision to limit the flying on the planet seems preposterously late in the development. Consider the contextual landing crosshair that is still in the game, even though it's almost impossible to consistently use with the game as it is. Dumping the planet rotation was a change that confirmed to be last minute and was basically shrugged off with 'well, playtesters got confused'. Honestly, the whole thing seems like they got a bunch of dope heads who don't play games to do their QA and they took their issues way, way too much to heart. You install the mod that gets rid of the bumper height and it's so much easier to land and so, so much easier to enjoy flying around the planet and look at shit.

My opinion on the lack of communication, at this point, is that it sucks. I get that they shot themselves in the foot by being far too open with what turned out to be their general dreams for the game as opposed to actual, hard mechanics. However, at some point you need to say something, anything, to the people who have stuck with your game.

Personally, I ejected it off my hard drive a while ago, I defended them on here a lot but I can't in good conscious do it again. They owe people at least a 'hello, we're alive, we're working on it'. Not even an update, not even a list of things they're working on at that moment, just a 'we hear you, we're working on it'. They've had one embarrassing slip up, dropped some empty statement, and have been otherwise completely silent the whole time. Unacceptable.

 

[Jobbs]

I get that they shot themselves in the foot by being far too open with what turned out to be their general dreams for the game as opposed to actual, hard mechanics.

Your overall point is understood but even this is too generous. They were still pretending like all the stuff was actually real and in the game well after gold and up to release. It went beyond "talking about their hopes and dreams as if they're real because they believe they will be real" and into outright deliberately misleading territory.

Remember how much shit Dark Souls 2 got just for the lighting and some graphics stuff being different at release compared to an earlier demo? Dark Souls 2 was actually a good game with a lot of content in it and it got a ton of flack just for misleading graphics/lighting. NMS is pretty much wholly constructed from misleading statements as opposed to just some graphic details being downgraded.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Frankly, I think it was shitty, late QA. I don't know if it was Sony or their own in-house QA, but that decision to limit the flying on the planet seems preposterously late in the development. Consider the contextual landing crosshair that is still in the game, even though it's almost impossible to consistently use with the game as it is. Dumping the planet rotation was a change that confirmed to be last minute and was basically shrugged off with 'well, playtesters got confused'. Honestly, the whole thing seems like they got a bunch of dope heads who don't play games to do their QA and they took their issues way, way too much to heart. You install the mod that gets rid of the bumper height and it's so much easier to land and so, so much easier to enjoy flying around the planet and look at shit.

All of the QA was done with Sony's team. Hello didn't have their own QA until post-launch.

NMS is pretty much wholly constructed from misleading statements as opposed to just some graphic details being downgraded.

A statement like this leads me to think you really didn't play NMS much or all. There was stuff that changed, a few things that were missing, but the basic gameplay loop and experience that they demo'd over and over was there. It's very shallow in places, but "wholly constructed from misleading statements" is just hyperbole.