Babymario26
Member
Well... I have been seeing more people get pulled over, and more cops have been sitting out in the open on highways.
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North Carolina to begin enforcing posted Speed Limits
- Thread starter Kaladin
- Start date
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Azwethinkweiz
Member
Drove 80 on 485 to work this morning. No ticket!
The Cool One
Member
Anyone get pulled over yet?
TheRagnCajun
Member
I thought the buffer was because those speed guns are only so accurate. Like +/- 10%
Caayn
Member
Exactly.
Drive the speed limit and you're fine. Go over the speed limit and risk a fine. I don't see anything wrong with that.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Good.
Speed limits are there for a reason.
Speed limits are there for a reason.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
The reason is not safety, if that's what you're implying.
Yeah, and if you're on a large highway (think 400 series) most people are diving closer to 20kph over the limit.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
The issue is that the speed limits are generally set below the speed at which travel would be most efficient and safest. Very few people would have a problem if the limits were set appropriately and then enforced as actual limits, not "suggestions" like they are now.
For example, if 85% of people naturally drive below 80mph on the interstate, set the speed limit for 80mph and pull over anyone doing 81mph or above. Don't set the limit for 65 or 70mph and randomly pull over people going anywhere between 70 and 80.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Do people honestly think speeding would stop if the speed limit was set +10 what it currently is? Because as someone living in a state with a higher limit than NC, it doesn't. People continue to push some falsely believed in 'buffer'.
PlatypusDude
Member
Almost all cops that I know are usually among the fastest drivers I know. They have connections though so they don't get ticketed even when off duty.
This reeks of a blatant money grab though, if everyone else is going around 10mph faster than the speed limit on a highway its way more dangerous going exactly the speed limit than the speed of traffic flow. This also will cause cops to be too busy pulling over minor offenders of the speed limit instead of those actually legitimately going at a reckless speed.
which part of 485? Some parts you have to go 90 through, otherwise you'll get steamrolled.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Fun anecdote, I was in an Atlanta court for a ticket once and a woman said she had just been moving with the flow of traffic. The judge told her that the average speed on the interstate there was 74mph (55mph limit), so that saying she was moving with the flow of traffic was an admission of guilt.
I'm sorry, but when the acknowledged average is breaking the law, you need to take a step back and think about changing it.
The Albatross
Member
For safety, I think this is probably a bad idea. Highway & traffic engineers consider the "85th percentile" to be the 'safe speed' for setting a speed limit.
The problem with setting a hard, strictly enforced speed limit is that it does not account for the natural tendency of drivers to drive at a higher speed when it is more safe to do so, or a lower speed when it is not safe to do so. A 5 mile stretch of highway might permit safe, consistent speeds of 75mph, where as a 1mile stretch of highway might permit safe, consistent speeds of 65mph, and then another 2500foot stretch of highway might permit even slower speeds especially in inclement weather. It's not reasonable or prudent to change the posted speed limit every mile or 5 miles or 2500 feet, but it is reasonable for law enforcement and the courts to have a reasonable buffer for what they consider safe driving on a stretch of road. Generally, that's been estimated as 10mph above and below and speed limit for the very real reason that it's safer for speed limits to be the 85th percentile of a given stretch of road, and that percentile represents a different speed in different areas (despite that the majority of non-urban highways have a single posted speed limit often for many 10s of 100s of miles).
Posting speed limits is not unsafe, but hard, strictly enforced speed limits are less safe than those that allow for drivers to slow down or speed up depending on conditions and the stretch of road. Further, our ability to modify a posted speed limit lags behind technological advances in cars, highway conditions, and changes in weather, so enforcing a strict 65mph limit when that limit was likely approved in a political process some 10, 20, or 40 years ago, is counter-productive to safety.
There's a strong body of scientific research that suggests that the large majority of drivers drive at a speed that they consider the road (or stretch of road) to be safe, regardless of the posted speed limit. Similar to what the poster said above where a judge said that the average speed on some stretch of highway was 74mph, yet the posted speed limit was 55mph, that seems to be a speed limit that was set for political reasons, not for safety reasons.
The problem with setting a hard, strictly enforced speed limit is that it does not account for the natural tendency of drivers to drive at a higher speed when it is more safe to do so, or a lower speed when it is not safe to do so. A 5 mile stretch of highway might permit safe, consistent speeds of 75mph, where as a 1mile stretch of highway might permit safe, consistent speeds of 65mph, and then another 2500foot stretch of highway might permit even slower speeds especially in inclement weather. It's not reasonable or prudent to change the posted speed limit every mile or 5 miles or 2500 feet, but it is reasonable for law enforcement and the courts to have a reasonable buffer for what they consider safe driving on a stretch of road. Generally, that's been estimated as 10mph above and below and speed limit for the very real reason that it's safer for speed limits to be the 85th percentile of a given stretch of road, and that percentile represents a different speed in different areas (despite that the majority of non-urban highways have a single posted speed limit often for many 10s of 100s of miles).
Posting speed limits is not unsafe, but hard, strictly enforced speed limits are less safe than those that allow for drivers to slow down or speed up depending on conditions and the stretch of road. Further, our ability to modify a posted speed limit lags behind technological advances in cars, highway conditions, and changes in weather, so enforcing a strict 65mph limit when that limit was likely approved in a political process some 10, 20, or 40 years ago, is counter-productive to safety.
There's a strong body of scientific research that suggests that the large majority of drivers drive at a speed that they consider the road (or stretch of road) to be safe, regardless of the posted speed limit. Similar to what the poster said above where a judge said that the average speed on some stretch of highway was 74mph, yet the posted speed limit was 55mph, that seems to be a speed limit that was set for political reasons, not for safety reasons.
I drive North on I85 from the other side of Durham about 40 miles each way everyday and I haven't seen a trooper on that stretch in the last 3 years. That was until two weeks ago. Now I see at least two everyday. Doesn't effect me,but when I have to drive to Gastonia for work sometimes, the speeding is amazing.
I guess I'm glad I live in the North East where everyone and their great grandmother speeds like crazy. Drivers are really aggressive everywhere from Boston to Jersey and I frequently, as in all the time, see people passing in the right lanes, doing easily 20 to 30 over the speed limit, so on and so forth. Not that I can complain as I tend to drive in a similar fashion.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Well cut that out.
Discipline of actually unsafe driving behavior is what falls behind when the police focus simply on speeding, but when your only effective monitoring tool is a speed detector, every citation becomes based on speeding.
If they had a good way to identify when people were texting you'd see enforcement of texting and driving laws shoot up--but they don't.
The Albatross
Member
Meh, we generally have some of the lowest posted speed limits in the country, the most active highway police for writing tickets, and (at least in MA), the highest car insurance rates in the country.
Driving in New England pretty much sucks.
It's only supposed to be for 2 weeks guys, not a permanent thing.
Also I pass cops all the damn time on the highway, slowly increase speed by 1 or 2 mph if the cop is actually going slower than the speed of traffic to match the people ahead. If the cop is going the speed of traffic I'll just ride along with him. Never got shit or sirens flashed at me for doing it, and this is on a sportbike.
Also I pass cops all the damn time on the highway, slowly increase speed by 1 or 2 mph if the cop is actually going slower than the speed of traffic to match the people ahead. If the cop is going the speed of traffic I'll just ride along with him. Never got shit or sirens flashed at me for doing it, and this is on a sportbike.
state troopers on rt 50 have no shame, doing the sneakiest of things to catch you, luckily I know all the tricks and hiding spots....
pathetic
Where did you see this? I'm curious, the 2 stretches of highway I frequent I never see a cop. But they're short and in the city. Pulling someone over there would be a nightmare for the already horrible traffic.
When I was younger I was told Ohio gave out the most speeding tickets per capita. I never looked into seeing if that was untrue, but every time I drove through on 70 I wasn't doubting it.
The problem is we design the roads for a certain speed then set a speed limit that doesn't match what the road was designed for. And that speed limit is almost always lower than the design speed. People will typically drive at the speed in which they feel safe although there will always be those that like to drive dangerously.
If you put a highway like arterial road with huge setbacks, it'll feel natural to go 55 or 65 even though the speed limit might be set at 45. Narrowing lanes would do a better job at slowing vehicles down than heavily ticketing people. And potentially save much more money than you can earn through tickets by reducing the size of the roads you have to build and maintain.
I agree 55 on the highway is nonsense considering everyone goes 70 - 80 on 128, rt 3, and 93 (traffic permitting).
Driving in MA sucks for the following reasons:
- Tailgating
- More Tailgating
- Aggressive drivers who wont commit to stupid decisions
- Tailgating
- Getting angry at people for using a turn signal
- Speeding up because someone is using a turn signal
- Tailgating
MA Staties (at least in my experience) are awesome so long as you stick to "Yes, Sir" / "No, Sir" honestly they are only after the true Masshole drivers on MA roads.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Maybe it depends on the area, but an officer straight up told me it's 15 km/h over.
Highway is 20 but I see people going 30 and nothing happening.
Honestly, when I see road warriors trying so hard to pass everyone I just get confused as to why. A typical commute of 20 miles, the difference from 65 to 80mph is about 3 minutes. If you have one or two stoplights to deal with then it might be no different. And its been proven that traffic moves way better when people can just settle into driving the same speed, speeding up to a bumper and hitting your brakes causes an accordion effect.
Oh, gas mileage plummets above 55mph too, friction is related to velocity squared, probably burn 33% less gas at 65 than 85.
Oh, gas mileage plummets above 55mph too, friction is related to velocity squared, probably burn 33% less gas at 65 than 85.
two major problems with speed limits in the US
first, they became broken windows a long time ago as everyone is pointing out. If you AREN'T speeding, you are literally obstructing traffic. It comes across as utterly stupid to type that, but it's true.
second, the assignment of speed limits in the US has NO rhyme or reason. Some places assign limits based on clear road conditions. Others assign it based on inclimate conditions. Some assign it based on pedestrian traffic.. and yes, some even assign it to "slow down" traffic past stores and shops to try and generate sales in those shops.
I am all for 100% enforced speed limits (yes I drive 9 over like everyone else), but for fucking god sake then
a) ENFORCE those speed limits (along with fucking red lights while you're at it Wisconsin)
b) likewise enforce minimum speed laws. easily as dangerous for someone to go 10 under as it is to go 10 over (obstruction, unpredictable, etc)
c) if not national, at least make limit regulations a STATE standard, not a local regulation.
first, they became broken windows a long time ago as everyone is pointing out. If you AREN'T speeding, you are literally obstructing traffic. It comes across as utterly stupid to type that, but it's true.
second, the assignment of speed limits in the US has NO rhyme or reason. Some places assign limits based on clear road conditions. Others assign it based on inclimate conditions. Some assign it based on pedestrian traffic.. and yes, some even assign it to "slow down" traffic past stores and shops to try and generate sales in those shops.
I am all for 100% enforced speed limits (yes I drive 9 over like everyone else), but for fucking god sake then
a) ENFORCE those speed limits (along with fucking red lights while you're at it Wisconsin)
b) likewise enforce minimum speed laws. easily as dangerous for someone to go 10 under as it is to go 10 over (obstruction, unpredictable, etc)
c) if not national, at least make limit regulations a STATE standard, not a local regulation.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Man, the way people drive around here (westchester NY) You'd think there is a 20mph buffer. People going 70+ in a 55 is the norm.
I don't think strict enforcement is such a great idea either, though, just due to how contrary it is to years of conditioning/expectations.
I don't think strict enforcement is such a great idea either, though, just due to how contrary it is to years of conditioning/expectations.
I'd love it if the US started ticketing aggressive driving rather than speeding.
I always thought that 1-9mph was a limitation of old instrumentation error range being so if you got pulled over for 71ish in a 65mph zone you could easily call bullshit on the ticket. Maybe things have advanced far enough now in a standard patrol car To give highly accurate results?
Actually in PA at least, the larger buffer is given to those using RADAR and a smaller buffer to those using stopwatches. Incidentally, it doesn't appear that NC has any actual buffer zone or limitation or prescription on speed measurement.
Code:
§ 20-141. Speed restrictions.
(a) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway or in a public vehicular area at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions then existing.
(b) Except as otherwise provided in this Chapter, it shall be unlawful to operate a vehicle in excess of the following speeds:
(1) Thirty-five miles per hour inside municipal corporate limits for all vehicles.
(2) Fifty-five miles per hour outside municipal corporate limits for all vehicles except for school buses and school activity buses.
(c) Except while towing another vehicle, or when an advisory safe-speed sign indicates a slower speed, or as otherwise provided by law, it shall be unlawful to operate a passenger vehicle upon the interstate and primary highway system at less than the following speeds:
(1) Forty miles per hour in a speed zone of 55 miles per hour.
(2) Forty-five miles per hour in a speed zone of 60 miles per hour or greater.
These minimum speeds shall be effective only when appropriate signs are posted indicating the minimum speed.
(d) (1) Whenever the Department of Transportation determines on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that any speed allowed by subsection (b) is greater than is reasonable and safe under the conditions found to exist upon any part of a highway outside the corporate limits of a municipality or upon any part of a highway designated as part of the Interstate Highway System or any part of a controlled-access highway (either inside or outside the corporate limits of a municipality), the Department of Transportation shall determine and declare a reasonable and safe speed limit.
(2) Whenever the Department of Transportation determines on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that a higher maximum speed than those set forth in subsection (b) is reasonable and safe under the conditions found to exist upon any part of a highway designated as part of the Interstate Highway System or any part of a controlled-access highway (either inside or outside the corporate limits of a municipality) the Department of Transportation shall determine and declare a reasonable and safe speed limit. A speed limit set pursuant to this subsection may not exceed 70 miles per hour.
Speed limits set pursuant to this subsection are not effective until appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected upon the parts of the highway affected.
(e) Local authorities, in their respective jurisdictions, may authorize by ordinance higher speeds or lower speeds than those set out in subsection (b) upon all streets which are not part of the State highway system; but no speed so fixed shall authorize a speed in excess of 55 miles per hour. Speed limits set pursuant to this subsection shall be effective when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected upon the part of the streets affected.
(e1) Local authorities within their respective jurisdictions may authorize, by ordinance, lower speed limits than those set in subsection (b) of this section on school property. If the lower speed limit is being set on the grounds of a public school, the local school administrative unit must request or consent to the lower speed limit. If the lower speed limit is being set on the grounds of a private school, the governing body of the school must request or consent to the lower speed limit. Speed limits established pursuant to this subsection shall become effective when appropriate signs giving notice of the speed limit are erected upon affected property. A person who drives a motor vehicle on school property at a speed greater than the speed limit set and posted under this subsection is responsible for an infraction and is required to pay a penalty of two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00).
(f) Whenever local authorities within their respective jurisdictions determine upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that a higher maximum speed than those set forth in subsection (b) is reasonable and safe, or that any speed hereinbefore set forth is greater than is reasonable and safe, under the conditions found to exist upon any part of a street within the corporate limits of a municipality and which street is a part of the State highway system (except those highways designated as part of the interstate highway system or other controlled-access highway) said local authorities shall determine and declare a safe and reasonable speed limit. A speed limit set pursuant to this subsection may not exceed 55 miles per hour. Limits set pursuant to this subsection shall become effective when the Department of Transportation has passed a concurring ordinance and signs are erected giving notice of the authorized speed limit.
When local authorities annex a road on the State highway system, the speed limit posted on the road at the time the road was annexed shall remain in effect until both the Department and municipality pass concurrent ordinances to change the speed limit.
The Department of Transportation is authorized to raise or lower the statutory speed limit on all highways on the State highway system within municipalities which do not have a governing body to enact municipal ordinances as provided by law. The Department of Transportation shall determine a reasonable and safe speed limit in the same manner as is provided in G.S. 20-141(d)(1) and G.S. 20-141(d)(2) for changing the speed limits outside of municipalities, without action of the municipality.
(g) Whenever the Department of Transportation or local authorities within their respective jurisdictions determine on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that slow speeds on any part of a highway considerably impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the Department of Transportation or such local authority may determine and declare a minimum speed below which no person shall operate a motor vehicle except when necessary for safe operation in compliance with law. Such minimum speed limit shall be effective when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected on said part of the highway. Provided, such minimum speed limit shall be effective as to those highways and streets within the corporate limits of a municipality which are on the State highway system only when ordinances adopting the minimum speed limit are passed and concurred in by both the Department of Transportation and the local authorities. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to farm tractors and other motor vehicles operating at reasonable speeds for the type and nature of such vehicles.
(h) No person shall operate a motor vehicle on the highway at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law; provided, this provision shall not apply to farm tractors and other motor vehicles operating at reasonable speeds for the type and nature of such vehicles.
(i) The Department of Transportation shall have authority to designate and appropriately mark certain highways of the State as truck routes.
(j) Repealed by Session Laws 1997, c. 443, s. 19.26(b).
(j1) A person who drives a vehicle on a highway at a speed that is either more than 15 miles per hour more than the speed limit established by law for the highway where the offense occurred or over 80 miles per hour is guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(j2) A person who drives a motor vehicle in a highway work zone at a speed greater than the speed limit set and posted under this section shall be required to pay a penalty of two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00). This penalty shall be imposed in addition to those penalties established in this Chapter. A "highway work zone" is the area between the first sign that informs motorists of the existence of a work zone on a highway and the last sign that informs motorists of the end of the work zone. The additional penalty imposed by this subsection applies only if signs are posted at the beginning and end of any segment of the highway work zone stating the penalty for speeding in that segment of the work zone. The Secretary shall ensure that work zones shall only be posted with penalty signs if the Secretary determines, after engineering review, that the posting is necessary to ensure the safety of the traveling public due to a hazardous condition.
A law enforcement officer issuing a citation for a violation of this section while in a highway work zone shall indicate the vehicle speed and speed limit posted in the segment of the work zone, and determine whether the individual committed a violation of G.S. 20-141(j1). Upon an individual's conviction of a violation of this section while in a highway work zone, the clerk of court shall report that the vehicle was in a work zone at the time of the violation, the vehicle speed, and the speed limit of the work zone to the Division of Motor Vehicles.
(j3) A person is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor if the person drives a commercial motor vehicle carrying a load that is subject to the permit requirements of G.S. 20-119 upon a highway or any public vehicular area at a speed of 15 miles per hour or more above either:
(1) The posted speed; or
(2) The restricted speed, if any, of the permit, or if no permit was obtained, the speed that would be applicable to the load if a permit had been obtained.
(k) Repealed by Session Laws 1995 (Regular Session, 1996), c. 652, s. 1.
(l) Notwithstanding any other provision contained in G.S. 20-141 or any other statute or law of this State, including municipal charters, any speed limit on any portion of the public highways within the jurisdiction of this State shall be uniformly applicable to all types of motor vehicles using such portion of the highway, if on November 1, 1973, such portion of the highway had a speed limit which was uniformly applicable to all types of motor vehicles using it. Provided, however, that a lower speed limit may be established for any vehicle operating under a special permit because of any weight or dimension of such vehicle, including any load thereon. The requirement for a uniform speed limit hereunder shall not apply to any portion of the highway during such time as the condition of the highway, weather, an accident, or other condition creates a temporary hazard to the safety of traffic on such portion of the highway.
(m) The fact that the speed of a vehicle is lower than the foregoing limits shall not relieve the operator of a vehicle from the duty to decrease speed as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway, and to avoid injury to any person or property.
(n) Notwithstanding any other provision contained in G.S. 20-141 or any other statute or law of this State, the failure of a motorist to stop his vehicle within the radius of its headlights or the range of his vision shall not be held negligence per se or contributory negligence per se.
(o) A violation of G.S. 20-123.2 shall be a lesser included offense in any violation of this section, and shall be subject to the following limitations and conditions:
(1) A violation of G.S. 20-123.2 shall be recorded in the driver's official record as "Improper equipment - Speedometer."
(2) The lesser included offense under this subsection shall not apply to charges of speeding in excess of 25 miles per hour or more over the posted speed limit.
No drivers license points or insurance surcharge shall be assessed on account of a violation of this subsection.
(p) A driver charged with speeding in excess of 25 miles per hour over the posted speed limit shall be ineligible for a disposition of prayer for judgment continued. (1937, c. 297, s. 2; c. 407, s. 103; 1939, c. 275; 1941, c. 347; 1947, c. 1067, s. 17; 1949, c. 947, s. 1; 1953, c. 1145; 1955, c. 398; c. 555, ss. 1, 2; c. 1042; 1957, c. 65, s. 11; c. 214; 1959, c. 640; c. 1264, s. 10; 1961, cc. 99, 1147; 1963, cc. 134, 456, 949; 1967, c. 106; 1971, c. 79, ss. 1-3; 1973, c. 507, s. 5; c. 1330, s. 7; 1975, c. 225; 1977, c. 367; c. 464, s. 34; c. 470; 1983, c. 131; 1985, c. 764, ss. 29, 30; 1985 (Reg. Sess., 1986), c. 852, s. 17; 1987, c. 164; 1991 (Reg. Sess., 1992), c. 818, s. 1; c. 1034, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, ss. 366, 367; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1995 (Reg. Sess., 1996), c. 652, s. 1; 1997-341, s. 1; 1997-443, s. 19.26(b); 1997-488, s. 1; 1999-330, s. 3; 2000-109, s. 7(c); 2003-110, s. 1; 2004-203, s. 70(a); 2005-349, s. 11; 2007-380, ss. 1, 2; 2009-234, ss. 1, 2; 2011-64, s. 2; 2012-194, s. 9; 2013-360, s. 18B.14(k).)*65 MPH limit sign on 285S*
*passes it by doing 80*
Grover Cleveland
Member
It is worth pointing out that this is an annual campaign that they've already announced will end on April 4th.
Just have to deal with a week and a half of coppers pretending to give a shit
It's not statutory in NC. The coppers are within their rights to pull over for going anything over the posted limit.
We (the citizens) just have an unwritten accord with the police that they will let the buffer slide because
A) Any judge worth their salt would throw out speeding tickets for anything under 5+ the limit
B) It's a total dick move
and in some of the bigger, more populated areas
C) it would actually be more dangerous to halt the flow of traffic in order to get someone to pull over than them going a couple MPH faster than the sign would be.
Just have to deal with a week and a half of coppers pretending to give a shit
It's not statutory in NC. The coppers are within their rights to pull over for going anything over the posted limit.
We (the citizens) just have an unwritten accord with the police that they will let the buffer slide because
A) Any judge worth their salt would throw out speeding tickets for anything under 5+ the limit
B) It's a total dick move
and in some of the bigger, more populated areas
C) it would actually be more dangerous to halt the flow of traffic in order to get someone to pull over than them going a couple MPH faster than the sign would be.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
Between Ballantyne and 77. The good news is the way home consists of moving 5 mph for 45 minutes.
Meanwhile the number of tickets written for merging onto freeways at 20 mph in a Toyota Avalon, riding in the outside lane at 20mph below the speed limit, living an entire life blissfully unaware of the purpose of turn indicators and insisting on being the only person in America who uses a smartphone exclusively for long, handheld telephone conversations, continues to be zero.
And when was it established that the traffic on that particular stretch of interstate was moving at its average speed at that particular date and time? That's a horrible leap of logic which has no place in a courtroom. The judge who said that deserves to be disbarred.
EsotericManiac
Banned
wouldn't they have to use a speed trap for this? those guns have a +/- that gives you a cushion anyway
if you're close you could fight it easily
if you're close you could fight it easily
SugarDaddy
Member
Fuck you, NC. Find some other way of generating income for your state, because arbitrarily enforcing posted speed limits is not going to save anyone's life.
hydrophilic attack
Member
What is the reason then?
Iron Man Cooking a Crepe
Banned
Apparently the reason for this is that they are facing a court case in front of the Supreme Court for something fucked up and discriminatory related to voting, and it's a guaranteed L, and they need the money to pay to fight it, so hence the "fundraising" efforts.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
What does this have to do with anything, and when have I ever suggested that shouldn't happen?
I'm getting confused with all the wacky straw men around here lately.
TheWarrior
Banned
I thought because once you go over 10mph the speed limit the ticket fine basically doubles
Grinchy
Banned
These kinds of things are always motivated by a need to make some extra money. We're supposed to follow laws, though. And speed limits are really easy to follow since they're posted everywhere. It's kinda hard to argue with this one despite the fact that we all know they only care because of money.
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