Guileless said:
Look slick, you go on thinking that a Western democracy tortures more people than Iran if you want to.
Why don't you take a look?
Really, you should change your lifestyle and start thinking for your own. Don't let a person on an altar every Sunday tell you how to think and behave.
When I say that torture is more widespread, I mean two things: 1) It's condoned and openly justified by the government. 2) It's not restricted to citizens of their country.
I'll get more in depth later here...
I'm not going to try and change your mind anymore.
I don't think you even did try. I'm totally open to new facts and things that I haven't considered, but you didn't bring anything up, just the same old usual rhetoric in an attempt to dismiss my point of view, which is based on realities.
There are also people who don't believe in dinosaurs, and I don't argue with them either. I'm guessing you live in a Western democracy, right? Why don't you move to Iran or North Korea so you won't be worried about getting tortured by George Bush?
I live in Canada, a country that openly speaks out against the use of torture, and hasn't had a record of torture. I do plan to stay here. The US is going downhill in it's freedoms and liberties, and things like the Patriot Act are examples of how injustices can occur in a democracy.
If I were as committed to that idea as you apparently are, I would back up my words with action. If I were worried about getting tortured I would move immediately.
Again, I live in Canada.
Or just keep ignoring the fundamental weakness to your argument: nobody really knows how much torture goes on in Iran. There is no Bill of Rights, no governmental audit, and no free press. You are completely full of shit when you tell us that there's more torture in the US than in Iran, because you have no idea whether that is true or not.
Wait, if I have no idea, then show me otherwise. Oh yes...you have no idea either...and that makes your assertion BS as well, am I right?
What we know is that Iran has had a long history of torture. We know that it is very secretive. At the same time, we know the US has now adopted torture as a part of it's strategy on the "war on terror", and this open, widespread, government-endorsed use of torture applies to even non-American citizens.
There are reasons for why you don't hear much out of Iran, while you see a lot of info in the States about the use of torture. First of all, Iran is a very controllable environment, and so is the US (and places like Gitmo Bay). Whereas the US carries out it's actions in countries like Afghanistan (where people can report what they see), and sending people to Egypt and Syria (where people are released, and they can tell about their experiences), it's far more open and uncontrollable.
It took years for the truth in Gitmo to get out because we simply had to wait until people were released.
You know all those articles you linked to? It's illegal to write those stories in Iran. In fact, if you did, you'd probably be tortured.
That's possible, and that just goes to show what the Iranians will and will not tolerate.
The same occurs in the US to a different degree, not too long ago 2 girls below the age of 18 were arrested in New York State, were they not? For what? Where are they now? We know that after 9/11 many Arab Americans were arrested and a lot of them were beat up in American prisons by prison staff. Of course, this is not part of the Bush Administration's International Torture Policy (tm), but it's very much in the same vein as the torture of Canadian reporter Zahra Khazemi.
You are appallingly ill-informed on this subject, yet you continue to post.
In what way? What have I said that was clearly wrong?
Really, your rhetoric really reminds me of how Republicans argue. They won't address the issue or the facts brought up. They'll just say "yer unejercaterd" and "that's baloney", while not coming up with their own sources and facts, or even bringing up some logic.
I'll agree that it's debatable as to whether or not the US's torture is more widespread, and I'm open to debate. I can concede now that Iran's "line" is a lot stricter as far as what they allow and what they don't, but once you get past that line, it's pretty much the same. The lack of a fair trail, the fact that there's no evidence or grounds required to arrest someone, and the torture itself can and has lead to death. That's the same. Perhaps if people survive, a handful do have the chance to sue the US government (but we all know it's not gonna fly) as a token gesture of how Bushland is more "free" than Iran. :lol
While I concede that, I still see absolutely NO evidence that Iran's torture policies are as widespread. It isn't as global and openly endorsed by it's government as compared to the Bush Administration.
You keep arguing otherwise...but where is the proof?
--edit--
exkyooz the spelling
There are far better ways to word my points...I think I have to either invest the time to reword what I say to be more effective, or to not comment at all.
