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[The Technomancer]

How do you guys think Nintendo should have followed the Wii up? I hear a lot of reasons why the Wii U is failing, but not many suggestions or ideas what -would- work for Nintendo.

Personally I think the Wii 2 should have been a cheap, family oriented console, with improved motion controls and optional traditional controls. So no expensive Gamepad. Ignoring the 'mature' market, no half assed ps360 ports for example. And with all the gametypes that people seem to like currently. Like Minecraft and simple iOS type games, but then on your tv with online functionality.

I think they just should have called it the Wii 2

 

[Steve Youngblood]

if NSMB couldn't drive sales, Mario Kart/Smash Bros/Zelda won't either.

I think they can drive hardware adoption better than New Super Mario, which I kind of but into as more of a so-called evergreen title that sells to owners, but doesn't in and of itself drive hardware sales. Of course, let me clarify that I don't think any of them are magic bullets. I think a holiday season with Wind Waker, 3D Mario and/or Mario Kart, and Retro's game will certainly help, but I do reject the notion that once the heavy hitters are out, this thing will be on a gravy train with biscuit wheels.

 

[RedSwirl]

Not doomed yet. Will wait for next christmas.

This. First holiday season after launch should always be seen as the final judgement for a game platform's place in the world. That's usually when the first wave of killer apps finally show up. It's happened for almost every console. I didn't become truly worried about the Vita after it went through last holiday when basically nothing to show for it.

Nintendo's best move would've been to expand their Western presence, revitalize their overseas affiliates and create constructive relationships with Western developers as Iwata has been doing in Japan, so that in return Iwata can actually not look like a complete idiot when he places his trust in them to fill in the Wii U schedule.

The biggest problem with Nintendo is that it's entirely based in Japan in a world that's completely connected everywhere. I doubt that this is simply an Iwata thing as it is a problem with Nintendo in general.

I think that ultimately Nintendo's survival in the modern age will not be solely dictated by pushing the envelope in hardware or by eye-catching gimmicks of the Wii. It will determined by how much they work towards improving relationships with developers, regardless of the changes that will entail internally.

If Nintendo has to give their western branches the freedom and authority to construct relationships with western third-party publishers and developers? Do it.

If Nintendo has to loosen up their publishing and licensing standards? Go for it.

As the Wii U is demonstrating right now, Nintendo can't hope for a lightning in a bottle to strike like the Wii did. What Nintendo can do however, is make sure that they're not completely left out in the cold.

Damn. This dude has pretty succinctly captured my thoughts on the situation. Nintendo seems to be doing well with Japanese publishers. Going forward, Nintendo could even still have Japanese publisher support in the bag (what other console are they gonna make games for? PS4?), but that ain't enough for anyone but the most hardcore outside of Japan.

They need to realize that western publishers are the main force in the console market right now, and get in bed with them. Judging by interviews I've read over the years, I don't even think Iwata and Miyamoto play western games, but then again it seems that many Japanese developers don't (many are starting to though).

 

[InsaneZero]

How do you guys think Nintendo should have followed the Wii up? I hear a lot of reasons why the Wii U is failing, but not many suggestions or ideas what -would- work for Nintendo.

Personally I think the Wii 2 should have been a cheap, family oriented console, with improved motion controls and optional traditional controls. So no expensive Gamepad. Ignoring the 'mature' market, no half assed ps360 ports for example. And with all the gametypes that people seem to like currently. Like Minecraft and simple iOS type games, but then on your tv with online functionality.

I believe the Wii U is a fundamentally good concept. It just doesn't have anything that makes use of the concept. And when you have a video game console that doesn't really utilize its core functionality, then you just have to make it up with content.

See: 3DS

 

[Painraze]

DmC bombing is not a good thing, at all. It shows a major weakness in the console industry that an, arguably, well made game could bomb this badly. All of these console owners out there, tens of millions, and not even 200k can buy DmC?

I dunno, it's a worrying sign to me.

 

[Duxxy3]

fixed

 

[dreamer3kx]

How do you guys think Nintendo should have followed the Wii up? I hear a lot of reasons why the Wii U is failing, but not many suggestions or ideas what -would- work for Nintendo.

Personally I think the Wii 2 should have been a cheap, family oriented console, with improved motion controls and optional traditional controls. So no expensive Gamepad. Ignoring the 'mature' market, no half assed ps360 ports for example. And with all the gametypes that people seem to like currently. Like Minecraft and simple iOS type games, but then on your tv with online functionality.

I think they should did something like the snes 2 for like 200, have mario and all there Nintendo franchises with a nice regular controller and some nice specs to be honest, I wouldve loved that.

 

[toastyToast]

I have a hard time believing all you guys shitting on DMC and cheering it's apparent failure have actually played it. It's a straight up incredible action game, the best of the entire generation IMO--if not of all time.

Many disagree with that even after having played it. It's still a good game, however.

 

[kswiston]

The market will shrink though, unless PS4/Nextbox are more successful than their predecessors.

The market for what? I thought we were talking about handhelds?

Nintendo's western handheld market is going to shrink for sure, but a lot of those losses will be the extra people the DS brought in last generation. 3DS shipped just under 15M units during the past year. By the end of next year they will probably be in the 42-45M range. Possibly higher if Pokemon revitalizes system sales in the west. Even if things never really explode, the 3DS is still heading towards PSP or GBA numbers, and the majority of those sales will be outside of Japan.

You are acting like 70M units of hardware is not worth selling. Nintendo might not see 20M+ sales on games like they did with New Super Mario Bros and Nintendogs, but is an eventual 10-15M for games like Super Mario 3D land and Mario Kart 7 worth scoffing at? Both titles will (if they haven't already) outsell games like Halo 4 which cost $100-200M to make and advertise.

 

[Bsigg12]

How do you guys think Nintendo should have followed the Wii up? I hear a lot of reasons why the Wii U is failing, but not many suggestions or ideas what -would- work for Nintendo.

Personally I think the Wii 2 should have been a cheap, family oriented console, with improved motion controls and optional traditional controls. So no expensive Gamepad. Ignoring the 'mature' market, no half assed ps360 ports for example. And with all the gametypes that people seem to like currently. Like Minecraft and simple iOS type games, but then on your tv with online functionality.

Rename the fucker. Super Wii, Wii 2, Revolution, Next Generation Tablet Gameplay, I don't care, but the WiiU name is the biggest fuck up in recent gaming history. The system could stand by itself had it not been named like an accessory. Forget that it will be weaker than the PS4 and Durango, it has a fantastic idea in the Gamepad but Nintedo really fucked themselves with the name. Just my thoughts.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

Wii U will pick up // just like the 3ds.

Nintendo knows what they are doing.

They are just consistently awful at launches.

 

[jrcbandit]

I don't see the WiiU ever recovering with such a lackluster lineup until possibly the fall. They utterly failed with the confusing name, lack of advertising, and very weak launch lineup - they stopped making games for the Wii ~2 years ago or so, so wtf weren't better games ready for launch? NSMBU is not exactly a killer game considering NSMB 2 was just released for the 3DS and WiiU didn't offer much over that version.

Also, it seems like the gaming industry is just dying in general due to lack of next gen launches. No one is buying games like they used to, which means that many popular franchises wont be seen on Durango/PS4. Devil May Cry is a dead franchise now, soon Dead Space will unfortunately be dead, as the game isn't selling anywhere near the 5 million EA wanted - I predict sales of about 600-800k for the first month. Aliens will major bomba which it 100% deserves. Even if Metal Gear Rising bombs, I doubt they will scrap MGS5 at least.

However, I predict a major blood bath in March, Square Enix expects big things out of Tomb Raider, hah. And I see 0 hype for either GoW game in March, both prequels oh joy..

 

[jmizzal]

The sales of the 3DS (with a worse lineup) were 97k in its 3rd month.

The sales of the Wii U (with a better lineup) are 56k in its 3rd month.

Yeah, I think we should be doom mongering. This is SERIOUSLY disturbing.

Nintendo handhelds has been selling better then its consoles per Gen, so lining up the numbers and saying 3DS sold more isnt saying much.

Both are bad starts, but at the end of the day they are not doomed, nobody has released any games in 2 months on WiiU (any worth while at least).

 

[PetrCobra]

This will probably be the best thing for NCL to do. Let NoA and NoE get a studio or two to help out. Be it established third parties, indie devs or having to set up their own.

Yeah, I wondered not so long ago, why are there no large developer structures in US and Europe for Nintendo? Why does Japan have to drag their whole worldwide business? They should train core internal developers around the world. Seems like a no-brainer.

Anyway, after several months with good games, if the Wii U is still selling bad, I'll start to worry. So far, with what they had to offer and with the issues after launch, they didn't even convince ME to buy it, and I could be described as a huge fanboy.

Spoiler

Right now, for a change, I'm broke and cannot afford the console so it will stay like that for a little while

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Literally all you have to do to sell a WiiU to five people is sit them down and have them play NintendoLand for three hours.

Suffice to say, I vehemently disagree with this assessment.

 

[RobotMafia]

DmC bombing is not a good thing, at all. It shows a major weakness in the console industry that an, arguably, well made game could bomb this badly. All of these console owners out there, tens of millions, and not even 200k can buy DmC?

I dunno, it's a worrying sign to me.

It wasn't japanese enough. Or something like that.

 

[Lambda Pie]

DMC4 was the best selling game in the franchise.

The series was not failing and this asinine rewriting of history that DMC4 left the franchise dead is getting REALLY old.

let them be and create their own narrative.

 

[WillyFive]

Suffice to say, I vehemently disagree with this assessment.

Yeah, Nintendo Land does very little to entice people to get a Wii U.

 

[Coolwhip]

I believe the Wii U is a fundamentally good concept. It just doesn't have anything that makes use of the concept. And when you have a video game console that doesn't really utilize its core functionality, then you just have to make it up with content.

See: 3DS

Don't you think this huge tablet controller puts casual gamers off? It looks pretty complicated compared to simple Wii motes. That was one of the big selling points of the Wii. Everyone that saw it, understood it immediately. It's almost the opposite with the Wii U Gamepad.

 

[Scum]

...
They need to realize that western publishers are the main force in the console market right now, and get in bed with them. Judging by interviews I've read over the years, I don't even think Iwata and Miyamoto play western games, but then again it seems that many Japanese developers don't (many are starting to though).

Which is why it might be a bloody good idea for NCL to get NoA and NoE to do this part of the job for 'em.

 

[jj984jj]

The market for what? I though we were talking about handhelds?

Nintendo's western handheld market is going to shrink for sure, but a lot of those losses will be the extra people the DS brought in last generation. 3DS shipped just under 15M units during the past year. By the end of next year they will probably be in the 42-45M range. Possibly higher if Pokemon revitalizes system sales in the west. Even if things never really explode, the 3DS is still heading towards PSP or GBA numbers, and the majority of those sales will be outside of Japan.

You are acting like 70M units of hardware is not worth selling. Nintendo might not see 20M+ sales on games like they did with New Super Mario Bros and Nintendogs, but is an eventual 10-15M for games like Super Mario 3D land and Mario Kart 7 worth scoffing at? Both titles will (if they haven't already) outsell games like Halo 4 which cost $100-200M to make and advertise.

Wii U isn't a handheld. I'm talking about the consumer games market, so both consoles and handhelds from the big 3. I'm not interested in mobile games so seeing Wii U and Vita underperform is disappointing to watch.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Which is just asinine. The series was already falling, and if people really wanted to see the end of Devil May Cry, there's a pretty solid chance its here.

can we please stop with the revisionist bullshit please?

#11 highest selling title of a companies ENTIRE HISTORY is not the sign of a failing series.

 

[teh_pwn]

How do you guys think Nintendo should have followed the Wii up? I hear a lot of reasons why the Wii U is failing, but not many suggestions or ideas what -would- work for Nintendo.

Personally I think the Wii 2 should have been a cheap, family oriented console, with improved motion controls and optional traditional controls. So no expensive Gamepad. Ignoring the 'mature' market, no half assed ps360 ports for example. And with all the gametypes that people seem to like currently. Like Minecraft and simple iOS type games, but then on your tv with online functionality.

It should have been a mid to high end piece of 2011 hardware. Near 1 TF GPU, 2 GB GDDR5, quad core x86 CPU around 1.5 GHz, 64 GB SSD. This simple design is cheap and would be easy to port games to both from 360/PS3 and future 720/PS4. It would have cultivated 3rd party support. They should have hired held to create the OS. Maybe used a Linux distro as a base. They should have hired people by the hundreds in 2008-2009 that have extensive experience in modern GPU APIs, and taught existing developers that were nearly a decade behind in tech, and added to the teams to improve productivity. They should have defaulted the controller to the pro, but have extensive backwards compatibility with the Wiimote, because that's what made Wii successful - intuitive controls that anyone could pick up, not a complicated tablet that's confusing about which screen to look at.

If Nintendo keeps making stupid decisions, I hope Crytek USA hires ex-Retro devs. Both are in Austin.

 

[Massa]

DmC bombing is not a good thing, at all. It shows a major weakness in the console industry that an, arguably, well made game could bomb this badly. All of these console owners out there, tens of millions, and not even 200k can buy DmC?

I dunno, it's a worrying sign to me.

The $60, 8-hour single player game is dead.

 

[Pineconn]

I think they just should have called it the Wii 2

The problem with that is that it looks inferior to the Xbox 360 and PS3. I suppose that's why Microsoft didn't go with "Xbox 2" against the PS3 as well.

Source: my ass.

 

[noobasuar]

games that dumb down significant gameplay mechanics to sell to a wider audience deserve to sell like shit.

simple as that.

 

[Jhriad]

Those DmC sales numbers are awful. I am now concerned about the future of the franchise.

I'm now concerned with the future of the console space in general. I don't think that people are interested in paying $60 for many games anymore and unless we see more price flexibility in the next generation (see: Steam) I'm not sure this won't be the last console generation.

 

[Roman]

I think they can drive hardware adoption better than New Super Mario, which I kind of but into as more of a so-called evergreen title that sells to owners, but doesn't in and of itself drive hardware sales. Of course, let me clarify that I don't think any of them are magic bullets. I think a holiday season with Wind Waker, 3D Mario and/or Mario Kart, and Retro's game will certainly help, but I do reject the notion that once the heavy hitters are out, this thing will be on a gravy train with biscuit wheels.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii was absolutely a system seller, though. I agree that this effect was diminished this time due to not being 'New' anymore especially in light of 2 releasing a short time beforehand, a higher price barrier and the hardware catering to different audiences, multiple SKUs and consumer confusion. Mario Kart might still do something.

 

[UberTag]

Wii U's tanking is really masking how this is the least info we've ever had in an NPD thread. I wonder if Wii beat Wii U, or how the 3DS did, or if Ni no Kuni > 75K.

NPD's lucky somebody leaked the numbers we did get or we'd have another 45-page thread bitching about them, lack of industry transparency and the absence of NPD's relevancy in the digital age.

 

[crazy monkey]

games that dumb down significant gameplay mechanics to sell to a wider audience deserve to sell like shit.

simple as that.

wii was amazing. wii sports was amazing.

 

[MechaX]

DmC bombing is not a good thing, at all. It shows a major weakness in the console industry that an, arguably, well made game could bomb this badly. All of these console owners out there, tens of millions, and not even 200k can buy DmC?

I dunno, it's a worrying sign to me.

Well, DmC surfaced through a mountain of disastrous PR. I'm hypothesizing that it was not even a matter of "well, only the hardcore goes on the internet;" hell, most of this stuff was probably things that even the average DMC fan would have known about. Combine that with how even Capcom couldn't even give a straight or sensible answer on what audience the game was actually made for (was it made for the old DMC fans? Well, the game pretty much takes a couple of potshots to the old Dante. Was it made for a new audience? Well, what exactly is going to draw them here that drew them to other action game audiences?), well... you get a not so surprising result.

What I am concerned about is Metal Gear Rising, however.

 

[FourMyle]

 

[StreetsAhead]

I...didn't know this

3dsconsoleoftheforever.gif

http://youtu.be/jyPmRTha15w

Tada!

 

[The Technomancer]

I believe the Wii U is a fundamentally good concept. It just doesn't have anything that makes use of the concept. And when you have a video game console that doesn't really utilize its core functionality, then you just have to make it up with content.

See: 3DS

Hm what? NintendoLand very much makes use of the concept. Its 10 times better than Wii Sports ever was and really sells the asynchronisity the gamepad enables. I don't own a WiiU yet (finances) but it made my GOTY list last year from playing at a friend's house alone

 

[metalslimer]

wii was amazing. wii sports was amazing.

He was talking about DmC i believe. Taking an established franchise and dumbing it down is not something I'm interested in. I have no problem with expanding gaming through new IP

Wii U will pick up // just like the 3ds.

Nintendo knows what they are doing.

They are just consistently awful at launches.

The very definition of not knowing wtf they are doing.

 

[Jhriad]

DmC bombing is not a good thing, at all. It shows a major weakness in the console industry that an, arguably, well made game could bomb this badly. All of these console owners out there, tens of millions, and not even 200k can buy DmC?

I dunno, it's a worrying sign to me.

Pretty much my thought as well. If we can't sell more than 200k on two platforms that have large install bases how well do we expect games to sell in the immediate future on new platforms?

 

[Tobor]

Wii U will pick up // just like the 3ds.

Nintendo knows what they are doing.

They are just consistently awful at launches.

They really don't. They have no idea what they're doing.

 

[Nekofrog]

I think NSMBU got affected by being released so close to NSMB2. The last Smash game was released in 2008, and even for the GameCube Melee was a decent system seller. It honestly needs all the help it can get.

Nintendo games sell well on systems with an already good installed userbase.

The Wii U?... no.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

It wasn't japanese enough. Or something like that.

But but but ...it was meant to appeal to the West.

 

[Painraze]

games that dumb down significant gameplay mechanics to sell to a wider audience deserve to sell like shit.

simple as that.

Wishing for decently made games to tank this badly is basically wishing your hobby as you know it away.

"Well the console space imploded and died and now all I got is this touchy touch scrabble rip-off bullshit but at least that dumbed down DmC bombed! yeah!"

 

[Kusagari]

DmC bombing is not a good thing, at all. It shows a major weakness in the console industry that an, arguably, well made game could bomb this badly. All of these console owners out there, tens of millions, and not even 200k can buy DmC?

I dunno, it's a worrying sign to me.

Action games like Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry aren't exactly mass market to begin with. They have a comfortable niche but they're never going to sell 5 million+.

It's no coincidence that NG3 and DmC have now both bombed horribly by turning off the exact fanbase that cultivates the genre.

 

[Alias Greed]

How do you guys think Nintendo should have followed the Wii up? I hear a lot of reasons why the Wii U is failing, but not many suggestions or ideas what -would- work for Nintendo.

Personally I think the Wii 2 should have been a cheap, family oriented console, with improved motion controls and optional traditional controls. So no expensive Gamepad. Ignoring the 'mature' market, no half assed ps360 ports for example. And with all the gametypes that people seem to like currently. Like Minecraft and simple iOS type games, but then on your tv with online functionality.

If your gonna do this, just release a Super Wii with slightly better tech than ps3/360 with next-generation motion plus / traditional control price it at $200 an call it a day.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I'm not worried too much about Nintendo; unlike Sony, they generally manage to avoid losing fucktons of money when they mess up. At worst, I'd expect a generation like the Gamecube, where they manage to scratch out a profit.

 

[ffdgh]

wii was amazing. wii sports was amazing.

I think he means DmC.

 

[jamesinclair]

Saw the title.

Jaw dropped.

 

[jmizzal]

if NSMB couldn't drive sales, Mario Kart/Smash Bros/Zelda won't either.

Umm what?

NSMBU is a game you buy when you own a system, Smash Bros is a killer app, Zelda is a Killer app, Mario Kart is a killer app.

 

[Coolwhip]

It should have been a mid to high end piece of 2011 hardware. Near 1 TF GPU, 2 GB GDDR5, quad core x86 CPU around 1.5 GHz, 64 GB SSD. This simple design is cheap and would be easy to port games to both from 360/PS3 and future 720/PS4. It would have cultivated 3rd party support. They should have hired held to create the OS. Maybe used a Linux distro as a base. They should have hired people by the hundreds in 2008-2009 that have extensive experience in modern GPU APIs, and taught existing developers that were nearly a decade behind in tech, and added to the teams to improve productivity. They should have defaulted the controller to the pro, but have extensive backwards compatibility with the Wiimote, because that's what made Wii successful - intuitive controls that anyone could pick up, not a complicated tablet that's confusing about which screen to look at.

If Nintendo keeps making stupid decisions, I hope Crytek USA hires ex-Retro devs. Both are in Austin.

Agreed. I would have picked an improved Gamecube controller over the pro controller though!

If your gonna do this, just release a Super Wii with slightly better tech than ps3/360 with next-generation motion plus / traditional control price it at $200 an call it a day.

Sounds good to me.

 

[mikeGFG]

I have a hard time believing all you guys shitting on DMC and cheering it's apparent failure have actually played it. It's a straight up incredible action game, the best of the entire generation IMO--if not of all time.

im going to quote this for posterity.

so that when video games are long extinct the human race or the blood thirsty machine race that has usurped us can look back at this post and know the exact moment it all went wrong.

 

[Hellsing321]

Holy shit those numbers Wii U numbers are awful. I think Nintendo needs to go beyond panic mode at this point to right the ship.

 

[apana]

How do you guys think Nintendo should have followed the Wii up? I hear a lot of reasons why the Wii U is failing, but not many suggestions or ideas what -would- work for Nintendo.

Personally I think the Wii 2 should have been a cheap, family oriented console, with improved motion controls and optional traditional controls. So no expensive Gamepad. Ignoring the 'mature' market, no half assed ps360 ports for example. And with all the gametypes that people seem to like currently. Like Minecraft and simple iOS type games, but then on your tv with online functionality.

Wii 2 with an advanced wii remote. Why give up on a good idea? The only reason the Wii stopped selling was because the support dried up. Nintendo can be so strange sometimes.