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I got a question, do you think MS and Xbox are primed to take next-gen? Their plan was probably like :

* get the name out there with the Xbox
* get a strong foothold in the market with Xbox 360 and sell a lot and get momentum and increase the brand name recognition (I think they really surpassed all this stuff)
* take over the market with Xbox 720 and 'win' the sales war, be #1

With their renewed focus on Kinect I'm not looking forward to that scenario. Probably rather have Sony and PS4 be #1

Not at all.

Nintendo saved MS this gen.

They showed the market to MS and then they passed , as well as Sony, to acquire the 3D camera. MS is in the position it is now to some extent by luck.

 

[Psychotext]

It also had about 500% more competition.

Perspective.

In a month where games generally sell about 250% better.

Realism.

That, of course ignoring the fact that they could have put it on sale in October if they chose to.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Since no one called me on it earlier.

If the 360 doubled what they've sold this year and the Wii stayed the same the 360 would either get close to, or surpass what the Wii has sold.

If they only sold the amount they have this year, and the Wii doesn't sell anything MS would still be behind. Either way, it doesn't exactly scream out as possible.

Playing devil's advocate here, but the 360 is going to continue selling extremely well in 2013, even if Loop launches next year. Just look at the PS2.

The Wii, on the other hand, is basically collapsing so I wouldn't expect the same.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

They said back in 2000 that it would take three generations to become the market leader.

They could completely screw up whatever momentum they've gained in just two decisions.

Release a dedicated Core gamer console, while simultaneously releasing a masses oriented console. One would have too high of costs for such a small userbase, the other could be a huge success.

You don't split the markets. You get the core to buy first, and the masses follow. Mainly because selling a console dedicated to the 21 million CoD owners is suicide, when there are 100 million Wii Sports gamers.

 

[protonion]

I got a question, do you think MS and Xbox are primed to take next-gen? Their plan was probably like :

* get the name out there with the Xbox
* get a strong foothold in the market with Xbox 360 and sell a lot and get momentum and increase the brand name recognition (I think they really surpassed all this stuff)
* take over the market with Xbox 720 and 'win' the sales war, be #1

With their renewed focus on Kinect I'm not looking forward to that scenario. Probably rather have Sony and PS4 be #1

I doubt it for two reasons.

1.In order to be number 1 you need to dominate everywhere.

2.Sony's huge mistakes won't be repeated. MS played for two years alone (ps3's first year was a non event).

 

[Delio]

360 has gained 2 MM ground this year so far and will likely chop another 1 MM in December, if not more.

Next year, Wii will continue on a downward trajectory, while Microsoft should be able to maintain and perhaps even increase its momentum if they play the proper pricing strategies.

I think 360 has a better chance of continuing to sell even after Microsoft releases the successor.

No, 360 will not catch Wii next year, but into 2013, 2014, I think it has good odds. Now whether or not that's important, don't even want to debate it.

Why not debate it? since it seems a number of people are predicting the 360 to pass the Wii it would be interesting to talk about the effects of this.

 

[Four_Chamber]

I think it's a bit strange that the Wii doing 40k less than the PS3 suddenly means its dead. Had the PS3 only sold roughly what they did last year, would people be reacting the same way?

I mean, yes, it's on it's way out, but I think we're going to see solid Wii numbers during the holidays for at least another year, possibly 2. Once the Wii hits $99, it'll sell consistently for awhile. 860k units isn't a bad number, and I don't mean that as some sort of nintendo defense force kind of shit. If 860k is bad, I don't see how 900K is great. It is comparatively disappointing though, or at least unexpected.

Yeah that's pretty peculiar. The difference between the two is almost certainly within the margin of error for NPD estimates. I wouldn't stick a fork in the Wii just yet.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Playing devil's advocate here, but the 360 is going to continue selling extremely well in 2013, even if Loop launches next year. Just look at the PS2.

The Wii, on the other hand, is basically collapsing so I wouldn't expect the same.

The Wii collapsing is right around the 360's average year. It would take a larger turn of fortunes to put it in the realm of possibility than we have seen so far.

 

[kswiston]

It also had about 500% more competition.

Perspective.

Also, haven't we seen enough NPDs to know that twice as long on the market doesn't mean anywhere near twice the sales? Games that get 3 days on an NPD their first month MAY get close to their first month sales again in the entirety of their second month. The only exception is if the second month happens to be a December.

Arkham City only had 10-11 days in last month's NPD when it sold ~1.5M. This month, even though it had 28 days plus Black Friday, it didn't even do half of that number.

Yeah that's pretty peculiar. The difference between the two is almost certainly within the margin of error for NPD estimates. I wouldn't stick a fork in the Wii just yet.

Previously (and even last year), November Wii sales were 2-3 times as high as Nov PS3 sales. This year PS3 goes up 70% YoY and Wii goes down 30%+ YoY. Wii is clearly fading fast. Holiday months are Nintendo's strong points.

 

[Erethian]

This needs to stop, its gotten beyond ridiculous. Now we are comparing the best, or perhaps second best November of DS, which at that time was 5 years mature with a massive library and momentum to the first year Nov of the 3DS? Trying to hard.

3DS has done more than gotten back on track. Its doing amazing.

But what if I don't want to wait four years to make apt, apples to apples comparisons between the performance of the 3DS and DS?

 

[Syphon Filter]

I doubt it for two reasons.

1.In order to be number 1 you need to dominate everywhere.

2.Sony's huge mistakes won't be repeated. MS played for two years alone (ps3's first year was a non event).

It's possible to be leader if you do really good in u.s an Europe.

 

[user_nat]

360 would be doing well to exceed the November sales in December given how big their black Friday numbers were.

So I don't think the 360 will sell >1m more than the Wii.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Why not debate it? since it seems a number of people are predicting the 360 to pass the Wii it would be interesting to talk about the effects of this.

One side will say "less time on market" and the other will say "not my fault" and then the other will say "you're just a bunch of dudebros" and the other side will say "dude, how could you say that, bro?" and then it would just degenerate further after that.

 

[Patapwn]

Uncharted didn't do very well.

Why? It charted 7 in a huge month, was against massive competition and even beat Zelda

I guess it hurts some to give it dues

 

[Thunder Monkey]

360 would be doing well to exceed the November sales in December given how big their black Friday numbers were.

So I don't think the 360 will sell >1m more than the Wii.

It's in the realm of possibility.

It still wouldn't mean anything for next year, the year after it might... but as I said earlier that's like having the highest grade in special ed.

 

[jax (old)]

360 would be doing well to exceed the November sales in December given how big their black Friday numbers were.

So I don't think the 360 will sell >1m more than the Wii.

It could once it goes even cheaper because the box still hold up quite well graphically compared to the wii. the further down the line, the better its visuals will hold up.

It just might.

 

[protonion]

It's possible to be leader if you do really good in u.s an Europe.

Yes, if the PS4 flops really badly in the US. An even then it will not be a PS2 like domination.

 

[[Nintex]]

I doubt it for two reasons.

1.In order to be number 1 you need to dominate everywhere.

2.Sony's huge mistakes won't be repeated. MS played for two years alone (ps3's first year was a non event).

With Samsung/Apple/Microsoft/Panasonic et all gunning for Sony their position is weaker than ever. They don't even have 6 billion to waste on PS4 development this time around. Given there's not another RROD or Windows 8 isn't a huge mess chances are it's going to be a game of who can spend more and with Microsoft making 60 billion in revenue every year Sony can't hope to keep up. If MS goes for the Apple and Google ecosystem with their next Xbox... well there simply won't be room or screentime for the competition. It would be best for Sony if they started talking to Google about such a scenario. Sony and Nintendo might even have to consider to *gasp* bundle their forces in one way or another. I feel like Circus du Soleil and taking over Times Square with the Kinect parade was just the tip of the iceberg now that the Xbox division is actually 'profitable'. They did all that on fumes, marketing mumbo jumbo and false promises before now they actually have results and profits to convince MS's board of their new master plan.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Or killing a dead guy.

 

[Gaborn]

There is more to gaming revenue than hardware profit. Software is where it's at, and from a business perspective, I'm guessing Sony won (behind ms of course)

I wasn't arguing otherwise. I assumed that Burnt Pork was looking at a sales perspective (that is, units sold) and picking a winner and a loser. I'm guessing the Wii's month generated more PROFIT, from hardware definitely but who knows, maybe from software than the PS3 did.

Revenue alone isn't relevant either. Just because you can sell a system at a particular price does not mean you're making equal money on the sale.

 

[wonderkins]

9 million?

Not a game I play but Activision evidently sells what the people want. Wow. 9 million. Hopefully, the line level employees get a nice bonus. They deserve it.

 

[Delio]

One side will say "less time on market" and the other will say "not my fault" and then the other will say "you're just a bunch of dudebros" and the other side will say "dude, how could you say that, bro?" and then it would just degenerate further after that.

Not like wont either way. I'd just love to see what people think the message would be if the break out family console ultimately lost to the all purpose box.

 

[Cipherr]

But what if I don't want to wait four years to make apt, apples to apples comparisons between the performance of the 3DS and DS?

The for the love of god :lol compare year 1 DS to year 1 3DS.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

9 million?

Not a game I play but Activision evidently sells what the people want. Wow. 9 million. Hopefully, the line level employees get a nice bonus. They deserve it.

I doubt it.

That was the reason they fired all of the old Infinity Ward guys.

 

[a Master Ninja]

They sold more 360s this month than they sold in 6 years in Japan.

Crazy to think about it that way.

 

[jax (old)]

With Samsung/Apple/Microsoft/Panasonic et all gunning for Sony their position is weaker than ever. They don't even have 6 billion to waste on PS4 development this time around. Given there's not another RROD or Windows 8 isn't a huge mess chances are it's going to be a game of who can spend more and with Microsoft making 60 billion in revenue every year Sony can't hope to keep up. If MS goes for the Apple and Google ecosystem with their next Xbox... well there simply won't be room or screentime for the competition. It would be best for Sony if they started talking to Google about such a scenario. Sony and Nintendo might even have to consider to *gasp* bundle their forces in one way or another. I feel like Circus du Soleil and taking over Times Square with the Kinect parade was just the tip of the iceberg now that the Xbox division is actually 'profitable'. They did all that on fumes, marketing mumbo jumbo and false promises before now they actually have results and profits to convince MS's board of their new master plan.

does that factor in

1billion RROD loss
Kinect marketing 500million loss

all the chitter chatter around this: still; the console ... yeah Even if MS has deep pockets; they still need to convince shareholders that it is a wise spend.

that said; there isn't any question both ps4/x3 is coming. I'm happy to jump in for both. Nintendo's lost me completely.

 

[CrazyDude]

9 million?

Not a game I play but Activision evidently sells what the people want. Wow. 9 million. Hopefully, the line level employees get a nice bonus. They deserve it.

Ha!

 

[kswiston]

People need to remember that all three console LTDs combined in Japan are just a couple million units ahead of the PS3's US LTD. PS3 is the third place console in the US by 10M units. Japan is quickly becoming irrelevant for console hardware sales.

 

[jamesinclair]

I love when people follow up "860k" with "sales are collapsing, Wii is dead"

 

[StefanTheMongol]

This might be the first November ever where I purchased 6 of the top 10 selling games. God I am broke now.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Crazy to think about it that way.

This month alone they sold more than 3x the total of the OG Xbox in Japan.

 

[wonderkins]

I doubt it.

That was the reason they fired all of the old Infinity Ward guys.

Crossing-fingers for them, though. This is a rather harsh industry and Activision's management is mercenary. But 9 million. Whoah.

 

[ASIS]

With Samsung/Apple/Microsoft/Panasonic et all gunning for Sony their position is weaker than ever. They don't even have 6 billion to waste on PS4 development this time around. Given there's not another RROD or Windows 8 isn't a huge mess chances are it's going to be a game of who can spend more and with Microsoft making 60 billion in revenue every year Sony can't hope to keep up. If MS goes for the Apple and Google ecosystem with their next Xbox... well there simply won't be room or screentime for the competition. It would be best for Sony if they started talking to Google about such a scenario. Sony and Nintendo might even have to consider to *gasp* bundle their forces in one way or another. I feel like Circus du Soleil and taking over Times Square with the Kinect parade was just the tip of the iceberg now that the Xbox division is actually 'profitable'. They did all that on fumes, marketing mumbo jumbo and false promises before now they actually have results and profits to convince MS's board of their new master plan.

Dude, calm down. MS isn't taking over the world.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Crossing-fingers for them, though. This is a rather harsh industry and Activision's management is mercenary. But 9 million. Whoah.

I just hope they got to keep their jobs.

 

[kswiston]

This month alone they sold more than 3x the total of the OG Xbox in Japan.

360 sold the Japanese OG Xbox LTD in some normal months this year.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

does that factor in

1billion RROD loss
Kinect marketing 500million loss

all the chitter chatter around this: still; the console ... yeah Even if MS has deep pockets; they still need to convince shareholders that it is a wise spend.

that said; there isn't any question both ps4/x3 is coming. I'm happy to jump in for both. Nintendo's lost me completely.

I'm curious at labelling marketing costs as a loss. Those are costs weighed against the prospect of gaining future revenue. Judging the apparent success of Kinect over this past year, I doubt anybody at Microsoft is calling those dollars lost.

The RROD fiasco is, of course, a different disaster.

 

[wonderkins]

I just hope they got to keep their jobs.

: (

Maybe a free can of Coke? Just saw the THQ news. Ugh. This fuggin' industry/hobby.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

360 is a good example of how a cheap SKU can go such a damn long way. During Black Friday it was borderline JARRING how fucking cheap you could get a 360, even in a bundle. Combine that with the non-stop and pretty good marketing MS has for it, no surprises at all for me.

But yeah dat cheap SKU. I wonder if next generation Sony will try to emulate the same thing.

Predictable numbers all around for me actually.

 

[Sean]

It had a lot more competition coming out in November though. They probably should of released it in October again.

Uncharted 3 released before pretty much all of those games though. It came out on the first of the month while AC, MW3, SR3, Skyrim were released mid-November and Zelda in late November.

 

[RPGamer92]

PS3 did better than expected

 

[Dunlop]

Dude, calm down. MS isn't taking over the world.

or they already have?

mouahahahaha

 

[mrklaw]

Seems like the obvious answer is they had to go back to the drawing board in July and things are in flux right now.

the other obvious answer is you really don't start pushing a new console during the last quarter, especially if its not out for 12 months. Plead ignorance, play dumb and silent, and pray for some of your old stuff to sell a few more units.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So glad to see Skyrim doing that well. It's brought me as much joy as any game this generation.

 

[TheOddOne]

all the chitter chatter around this: still; the console ... yeah Even if MS has deep pockets; they still need to convince shareholders that it is a wise spend.

I don't think those shareholders are unhappy with the performance now. Sony on the other hand, their shareholder asked the CEO to step down.

 

[MrPink93485]

Uncharted 3 released before pretty much all of those games though. It came out on the first of the month while AC, MW3, SR3, Skyrim were released mid-November and Zelda in late November.

MW3 and Skyrim were the following week...

 

[kswiston]

Uncharted 3 released before pretty much all of those games though. It came out on the first of the month while AC, MW3, SR3, Skyrim were released mid-November and Zelda in late November.

Two weeks after Batman, One week after BF3, One week ahead of MW3, and 10 days ahead of Skyrim is not the best placement for a title.

 

[mrklaw]

With Samsung/Apple/Microsoft/Panasonic et all gunning for Sony their position is weaker than ever. They don't even have 6 billion to waste on PS4 development this time around. Given there's not another RROD or Windows 8 isn't a huge mess chances are it's going to be a game of who can spend more and with Microsoft making 60 billion in revenue every year Sony can't hope to keep up. If MS goes for the Apple and Google ecosystem with their next Xbox... well there simply won't be room or screentime for the competition. It would be best for Sony if they started talking to Google about such a scenario. Sony and Nintendo might even have to consider to *gasp* bundle their forces in one way or another. I feel like Circus du Soleil and taking over Times Square with the Kinect parade was just the tip of the iceberg now that the Xbox division is actually 'profitable'. They did all that on fumes, marketing mumbo jumbo and false promises before now they actually have results and profits to convince MS's board of their new master plan.

Sony are in great shape for PS4. R&D this time around will be much less - no bluray delay, no issues with yields, no complex CELL (hopefully). They have some decent tools now and they'll carry across to PS4 nicely as there isn't anything major tech wise coming, just faster and more. And they have a great set of first/second party teams producing great exclusive content.

The only pain for them is they'll likely have to cut short the PS3 generation to get PS4 out in a similar timeframe to Nintendo/MS. So that might reduce their expected lifetime volumes of PS3.

 

[Infinite Justice]

As said before add my +1 one to Microsoft's number

Results were pretty good.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Saints row has strong advertisements and good ratings. Not surprised it did well. People can afford more during these weeks, its no wonder why everyone releases their stuff now. Whats good, and properly marketed... Sells.

 

[kswiston]

The only pain for them is they'll likely have to cut short the PS3 generation to get PS4 out in a similar timeframe to Nintendo/MS. So that might reduce their expected lifetime volumes of PS3.

At the very worst, PS3 will be 6 years old by the time the PS4 comes out. It could even be 7 years old. PS2->PS3 was 6 years.