Just because they won't repeat the mistakes of the PS3 (says you), doesn't mean they won't make entirely new mistakes.
And it's hard to deny that they've lost mindshare this generation.
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NPD November 2011 Sales Results [Update 7: Skyrim, CoD Wii, PC Retail Sales Up 57%]
- Thread starter Road
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Just because they won't repeat the mistakes of the PS3 (says you), doesn't mean they won't make entirely new mistakes.
And it's hard to deny that they've lost mindshare this generation.
Randolph Freelander
Member
It is a shame that the best Halo since Halo didn't crack the top 10.
10 year remake or not, I would have thought it would do a million. It's Halo.
On that note, I think we can pin Microsoft's reversal of fortune with the 360 to the decision to kick Bungie to the curb.
10 year remake or not, I would have thought it would do a million. It's Halo.
On that note, I think we can pin Microsoft's reversal of fortune with the 360 to the decision to kick Bungie to the curb.
Phonomezer
Banned
I expected more considering the hype, a full month and Black Friday. It's still a respectable number in the face of CoD, however.
It's in the Top 10 on the old SKU Top 10.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm beginning to think mindshare doesn't mean anything in this industry.
Nintendo went from nothing to top dog, and back to 3rd in the span of a generation. MS went from afterthought, to core console of choice, to top dog.
If you've got the games that tickle the masses fancy you've got the potential for success. And what tickles them seems to change by the year.
Bingo bango. I do think branding and mindshare matters, but it's all fleeting if you don't keep up the momentum.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I agree with this. I think everything boils down to marketing and having the stable of not THE BEST games, but the ones most appealing to the mainstream. Not that I'm implying anything, most of the games that the masses love are good.
bigtroyjon
Member
They profited well over a billion dollars last year. They didn't "lose" any money marketing Kinect.
And their shareholders don't have to be convinced of a single thing unless by shareholders you mean Gates and Ballmer.
Go look through the NPD archives, other than band/guitar games turning into dance games, nothing has really changed at all.
Here is to hoping the next Kinect is much better, but we'll see. I bought it at launch but quickly got rid of it as it was too boring and not accurate enough. If they can make it more responsive and accurate I'm sure it will be more than a menu navigation device.
AranhaHunter
Banned
I'm not gonna read the whole thread, but the 700k Uncharted 3 numbers do not include the HW bundles, is that correct?
Also, do we know if the PSP has sold over 100k for the month?
Also, do we know if the PSP has sold over 100k for the month?
oh, for fuck's sake... not this shit again.
airmangataosenai
Member
Yeah, pretty sure NPD doesn't count pack-ins.
Good sales overall for MS and Sony this month.
Refreshment.01
Member
We should take this into consideration. 360 could be considered the cheapest console in Black Friday. I don-t understand how could MS go with such low prices. For example there was a bundle with 2 games and a 50 gift card for 200. Then you had a Wii bundles with 1 0r 2 games for 150. Basically almost the same price.
How could MS be turning a profit with a 200 system, 2 games and a 50 gift card?
Plus the heavy dough in promotion they roll at retailers.
jamesinclair
Banned
We havent known PSP numbers in years. Sony, somehow, is able to convince what is supposedly an independent organization to not release them.
Refreshment.01
Member
At least take the time to form an statement Gadfly, because it is how things turned out to some extent.
TheNatural
My Member!
I wonder how some of the other releases did, the lower "priority" ones. Sonic, Rayman, Halo HD, Need for Speed, UMvC3, Rocksmith, to name a few.
I think $199 for the 4 GB slim + Kinect + $50 gift card was a more impressive offer.
But to respond: The $50 gift card does not come out of Microsoft's pocket. Games are essentially free to manufacture. Besides, 360s are cheap as hell to make at this stage.
bigtroyjon
Member
Where did that bundle come with a $50 gift card?
outunderthestars
Banned
Wii's were available with or without a pack-in game for $99 on Black Friday.
I look at those 360 numbers, and think 2012 would be a perfect time for the next xbox to launch. X360 will be at its peak of sales in the next 12 months, so get the successor out before things slow down too much.
2013 will be alright too. It won't take much time for the next xbox to catch up and surpass the wii u usebase. MS will have the most wanted system heading into next gen. The only thing that can stop it is if the Kinect bubble bursts. However "next gen" Kinect might have the affect of adding getting more people interested in the system.
2013 will be alright too. It won't take much time for the next xbox to catch up and surpass the wii u usebase. MS will have the most wanted system heading into next gen. The only thing that can stop it is if the Kinect bubble bursts. However "next gen" Kinect might have the affect of adding getting more people interested in the system.
That's true, but only at Walmart and Sam's Club.
outunderthestars
Banned
Best Buy also had $99 wii's with NSMB.
Refreshment.01
Member
Are you serious such bundle existed? How do you cut some profits in a bundle like that. As for the gift card the money has to come around from somewhere even if its a small amount. You incentivate consumers with the gift card but you also end up not perceivng money from the products the consumer acquires with the offer. Maybe someone with know how could explain exactly how it works.
A 360 might be cheap to make but how cheap exactly? So Nintendo should be making a killing with a 150 Wii then, maybe matching net revenew from consoles sales to the 360.
bigtroyjon
Member
But only doesn't apply when you are talking about Wallmart and the Wii's. There was a reason they had their biggest black Friday ever while also having one of their worst November's ever.
I stand corrected.
opticalmace
Member
Damn.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Thunder Monkey
Banned
You really never quit do you?
Walmart is glad to give away gift cards because:
a) many people never even redeem them
b) when they are redeemed, it brings more people into their store to buy other things
Besides, these bundles were in limited supply. This gets people coming in well after supplies are exhausted. When they find there are no more bundles they tend to spend their money there anyways, just on something else.
As for manufacturing costs, they're going down all the time. I imagine it doesn't cost Microsoft more than $80 to manufacture a 360 these days.
Diatribe1974
Member
Man...the 360 is such a beast.
Yeah people go where the games are and the Wii hasn't been getting games for a long time. Its hard to believe that people still buy it at the numbers they do now.
He's the best clown in the business
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
yeah, it's hilarious, expecially considering that November has been a monster month, software wise, for evey other console. PS3 and 360 had MW3, Skyrim, Uncharted, Arkham City, AssCreed, all guaranteed million sellers, and all kinds of deals, cuts, offers, bundles. Nintendo had Skyward Sword and JD3 period. I honestly didn't expect it to sell this well
AceBandage
Banned
Wait, Nintendo is third?
When did the PS3 and 360 pass it?
When did the PS3 and 360 pass it?
Uncharted 3's position relative to the multiplatform stuff is what I expected. I wonder what the breakdown would look like on SKUs. I am surprised it didn't match God of War III though. It seems like the best marketing for a PS3 game at this point is having had a big predecessor on PS2. God of War III didn't have anything resembling co-op or MP but it was the biggest game of a crowded March 2010.
Lessons learned so far from this NPD report!
1. Cheaper=more sales
2. A universal $99 Wii would sell millions.
3. New gamers brought in with the Wii generation, seem to be upgrading!
4. Mario sells handhelds. Boatloads.
Things I expect in Decembers NPD:
The top 10 probably won't change except for the addition of Mario Kart and SM3DL, which means goodbye Batman and probably Saints Row 3.
Wii to sell 2mil, while the 360 makes a new personal record again.
The 3DS will sell over 2mil.
Everything else should be as expected.
1. Cheaper=more sales
2. A universal $99 Wii would sell millions.
3. New gamers brought in with the Wii generation, seem to be upgrading!
4. Mario sells handhelds. Boatloads.
Things I expect in Decembers NPD:
The top 10 probably won't change except for the addition of Mario Kart and SM3DL, which means goodbye Batman and probably Saints Row 3.
Wii to sell 2mil, while the 360 makes a new personal record again.
The 3DS will sell over 2mil.
Everything else should be as expected.
Haha, indeed.
it also did not have much competition. it is clear as say that this years release schedule is packed with quality. I barely have time to play all the games I want myself (in fact, I don 't).
It is kind of interesting though that Sony and Microsoft more or less ignored how much the Wii was selling for so long and did very little to compete with it on the price front. I can't really recall a situation where there was so little price competition. PS2 was in a similar situation of sales dominance last gen and Xbox and Gamecube always got price drops around the same time. I'm guessing Microsoft realized the Wii's success wasn't going to cost them many games because the hardware was too old for what a lot of developers are/were doing.
kame-sennin
Member
No it's not. Nintendo's first year target is 16m WW, and they might crawl past that mark, but only after cutting the price in half causing them to sell at a loss. That's not good, and it's not trolling to say so. The 3DS certainly hasn't knocked Nintendo out, but it definitely gave them a bloody nose.
People have to realize that there's a large gradient between doing phenomenally well and being a complete disaster. We also have to take into consideration that 3DS is following two of the most successful consoles in history, with access to a library of franchises that are unmatched by any other publisher. In a vacuum, 3DS sales might be really good, but sales are meaningless without context. Since 2006, Nintendo's context has been overwhelming, awe-inspiring success. With the 3DS launch and the latter years of the Wii, they've stumbled severely.
As mentioned, there were much cheaper Wii deals out there.
Also, the "main" deals (Walmart's $50 gift card was a limited one) were:
$200 - PS3 160gb w/ 2 games (LBP2:SE & Ratchet & Clank: All 4 One)
$200 - Xbox 4gb w/ 2 games (Halo: Reach & Fable III)
$200 - Xbox 4gb w/ Kinect
I would say that they were all on the same "purchase" level (a consumer drops $200), but the PS3 one actually includes more stuff (a hard drive and BR player, primarily). The continued "this is why it sold" is bullshit. It sold because it's what people want right now, and it will continue to do so regardless of price.
AceBandage
Banned
So, the 3DS isn't doing well... because Nintendo decided to fix their strategy rather than just plowing into a wall?
Huh.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Obviously I was meaning their current standing, not overall.
There was FFXIII and Bad Company 2, but yeah BF3 is much bigger than any game in the series before it. It is a good increase over UC2's first month if nothing else. It'll be interesting to see if it has a good tail or if Sony's marketing moves on completely to Vita and the 2012 games.
Im surprised nobody has extrapolated the numbers yet - they pretty much gave you instructions how to in the NPD quote.
I think he's saying it's not so much as a movement of the demand curve up, but rather an increase in the quantity demanded due to a lower price on the same subpar demand curve.
But often times, past mistakes can be corrected. No, the 3DS did not have the best year. Yes, the price reduction hurt Nintendo. But as you said, there are varying degrees of success and failure to be found in all of this. I don't think saying the 3DS is back on track is an unfair statement. It's doing acceptably...for now. How is it doing compared to its predecessor? Well it's tracking better, but that doesn't really ensure anything. We can't go all disco stu and project a similar exponential curve like there was with the DS.
I think it is pretty safe to say though that the 3DS is no longer an unmitigated disaster. It's been very well...mitigated.
If demand goes up permanently to acceptable levels, it is no longer subpar. Lowering the price definitely increased the demand at present. Now it's just a matter of seeing how long that momentum lasts.