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[AstroLad]

Looking at historical sales data (at least according to Wikipedia) I can start to see why they haven't bothered recently. The power of the Nintendo first-party is incredible.

Bingo, this is at the heart of the matter. But no one in the gaming industry or the gaming "media" has the balls to say it. That's the gaping void that GAF fills I guess.

 

[JMPovoa]

Sorry to break it to you, but you and your friends mean jack.

What he means is that the "gamer" as we knew it is being neglected by Nintendo. (IMO)

 

[-MB-]

The failings of Nintendo this gen, more than any previous gen (although they were heading in this direction), is that they've ceased to create games that I and the majority of my friends want to play on the Wii.

That's the biggest BS i ever heard. nintendo put out more core titles in a shorter timeframe then they did during GC era and to lesser extend N64 era. Only difference is, that they also put out casual titles liek wii fit/play/sports.

 

[Sadist]

The failings of Nintendo this gen, more than any previous gen (although they were heading in this direction), is that they've ceased to create games that I and the majority of my friends want to play on the Wii.

So... I imagined the announcements of Punch Out! Wii and Sin & Punishment 2 for an example?

 

[MisterHero]

The failings of Nintendo this gen, more than any previous gen (although they were heading in this direction), is that they've ceased to create games that I and the majority of my friends want to play on the Wii.

Yeah and they've created room for 3rd Parties to compete on the Wii short of moneyhatting them and the 'barbarism' they were accused of during their 8-bit/16-bit domination.

The SNES' best-selling 3rd Party title was Street Fighter II. Where is Wii's Street Fighter, Capcom? :lol

 

[chespace]

Sorry to break it to you, but you and your friends mean jack.

Not to me they don't. :lol

It's still a failure in my eyes. If you like Nintendo's output as of late (Wii Play/Fit/Music/Sports), then in your eyes, they're a success. Good for you.

 

[Yes Boss!]

The failings of Nintendo this gen, more than any previous gen (although they were heading in this direction), is that they've ceased to create games that I and the majority of my friends want to play on the Wii.

Strange perspective. Wii is getting nintendo's best support since the SNES. Add in all the new Wii-branded games and there is just an overflow of content.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

So... I imagined the announcements of Punch Out! Wii and Sin & Punishment 2 for an example?

You missed the point. Nobody cares about non-HD games.

 

[boiled goose]

I'm kind of worried, it seems a lot of big deal games didn't do that well.

I can see a lot of companies closing up shop, or letting a lot of people go if this continues.

As I was saying earlier...

this is a combination of two things

Way too many big games in october-december...(mirror edge, PoP, fallout, farcry, fable, deadspace, lbp, r2, gears2, l4d, banjo, VC, cod, rb2, ghwt, etc, etc) way to ffing many... there is only so much money and time to dedicate to games

and...

NONE OF THEM ON THE WII...(except GH which did really well...)

 

[cress2000]

I actually quoted your post by mistake (it was meant for the person you quoted).

Also, ToV's numbers show that it's not necessarily down from last gen.
I believe TotA pulled up similar numbers on the PS2 in the US. ToS was the only major success.

IIRC Abyss was at 26k in 3 weeks. Vesperia was at 33k(?) in its first week. Then it went on to do another 37k the next four weeks, bringing it to 70k. I wish we could get data for the last couple months, as it looks to be the second best-selling game in the series here, besting Tales of Destiny's 68k LTD. Still a far cry from Symphonia, but it's still interesting to me...

 

[Sadist]

You missed the point. Nobody cares about non-HD games.

Okay. BAIL-OUT!!!

 

[BishopLamont]

Not to me they don't. :lol

It's still a failure in my eyes. If you like Nintendo's output as of late (Wii Play/Fit/Music/Sports), then in your eyes, they're a success. Good for you.

They're a success because they make money, not because I like or dislike them. Try to learn the difference.

One that you apparently don't have an argument against.

So third parties don't put in effort because Nintendo does? Ah makes perfect sense now.

 

[Oblivion]

NES
SNES
N64
GC
Wii
DS

Looking at historical sales data (at least according to Wikipedia) I can start to see why they haven't bothered recently. The power of the Nintendo first-party is incredible.

That rationale has always been fundamentally retarded. Nintendo's first party titles sell shitloads, that much is obvious, but they don't keep releasing new titles like every day. Not to mention that you would think it would be more risky to compete on other consoles that have significantly more third party games competing for gamers monies.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Are we also blaming marketing again for Sonys issues? How long has it been since the whole ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMASS IS A PSPPPPP


Marketing has not been the issue. Sony has spent millions on ads. Weve come along way from the awfull white room baby crying commercials

The thing is when you go from crap to pretty bad, you're still left with pretty bad.

TOP-SELLING SOFTWARE - NOVEMBER 2008
Title / Publisher / Units*
7) Guitar Hero World Tour (Wii) / Activision Blizzard / 475,000
13) Rock Band (Wii) / MTV Games

Last Year: "Guitar Hero III is only selling the best on Wii because it has no competition. On the PS3 or 360 users have to choose between that or Rock Band, for the Wii however they can only get Guitar Hero. So in reality the series really isn't performing better on Wii because more Wii owners are starting to buy third party software but more so because it's the only choice out there for them if they want a guitar music game."

I'm kind of worried, it seems a lot of big deal games didn't do that well.

I can see a lot of companies closing up shop, or letting a lot of people go if this continues.

See at first it was only Japan (which is still in progress see Valkyria, Last Remnant, and TvC), however now its the West as well. I mean don't get me wrong plenty of games are doing good but it seems that AAA and AA games are getting a little more concentrated this year. Normally I'd be concerned but then again could that mean that more people are buying A games? (referring to budget not quality).

Last Remnant, Banjo, Mirrors Edge etc. many high budget Games are bombing - if those games were on wii, with the same results ppl here would go crazy and convinced that it`s because those kind of game can`t sell on wii.

btw. Next bomba in Dec NPD will be probably Prince of Persia....

TTFW (Too True for Words)

 

[AniHawk]

Not to me they don't. :lol

It's still a failure in my eyes. If you like Nintendo's output as of late (Wii Play/Fit/Music/Sports), then in your eyes, they're a success. Good for you.

I dunno man. I think the main difference this time is that third-party support is worse than ever before. Nintendo's made four Wii ___ games and their usual casual stuff (Mario Party, WarioWare, Animal Crossing), but their traditional gaming stuff has been better than it was on the Gamecube (except for Subpar Paper Mario). And it seems that the third-party filler titles are fewer or worse than before.

I'm curious as to what their next Wii ____ game is going to be after Wii Sports Resort. It's the last of the original demo-made-games from E306. They might not have any at all. They might not be focusing on it much anymore. When was the last time they released a Training game in Japan? Months ago? A year ago?

 

[boiled goose]

The failings of Nintendo this gen, more than any previous gen (although they were heading in this direction), is that they've ceased to create games that I and the majority of my friends want to play on the Wii.

what games did you by for gamecube?

 

[soldat7]

They're a success because they make money, not because I like or dislike them. Try to learn the difference.


So third parties don't put in effort because Nintendo does? Ah makes perfect sense now.

That's why he said "in [his] eyes".

Do you really expect a third-party to invest $10-20 million into a 'hardcore' Wii game? Who is going to take that kind of risk when your game would be deployed to a platform where Wii Fit rules the day. I'd personally love to see a third-party take that risk but I don't think they ever will. Nintendo understands their userbase, third-parties, perhaps to their detriment, don't.

That rationale has always been fundamentally retarded. Nintendo's first party titles sell shitloads, that much is obvious, but they don't keep releasing new titles like every day. Not to mention that you would think it would be more risky to compete on other consoles that have significantly more third party games competing for gamers monies.

Again, Nintendo games always shine the brightest and Nintendo has a history of making that happen. The historical data indicates that Nintendo customers tend to buy Nintendo-made games. You can't fault third-party pubs for coming to this type of conclusion.

 

[chespace]

They're a success because they make money, not because I like or dislike them. Try to learn the difference.

Oh I see. So sales is how we're defining good games I should give a shit about? :lol

You need to learn to accept differences.

 

[Yes Boss!]

Nobody is mentioning Mario Kart DS and its almost 200K in sales. That is pretty amazing. Wonder if it is the Mario Kart Wii "halo" effect.

 

[rjcc]

So that puts the game at around 400k-500k now? That's pretty good, especially for a new IP on the PS3 (Uncharted was a bigger "bomb" IIRC). And especially for this kind of new IP on the PS3. Also, the night is darkest just before the dawn. And as they say, the dawn is coming unless some maniac clown horribly disfigures you and makes you go on a rampage against those that wronged you.

no, that's not good. the game's been hyped nonstop for at least a year and a half, you'd figure 500k in the US would be possible in the first two months, at christmas.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Che, what were the games released for the GameCube between November 2001 and November 2003 that you and your friends loved? Just looking for the benchmark here.

 

[AniHawk]

Nobody is mentioning Mario Kart DS and its almost 200K in sales. That is pretty amazing. Wonder if it is the Mario Kart Wii "halo" effect.

Mario Kart DS and New Super Mario Bros. have been selling a shitload every month for years now. NSMB is actually on its way to outselling SMB3. It's about 2-3m away now.

 

[Sadist]

Nobody is mentioning Mario Kart DS and its almost 200K in sales. That is pretty amazing. Wonder if it is the Mario Kart Wii "halo" effect.

Yes I did!

Nintendo is making bucketloads of money on the Mario Kart games. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw Mario Kart Wii/DS re-apearing in the charts next year.

 

[Keikoku]

Sony needs a price drop.

 

[[Nintex]]

Sony needs a price drop.

They can't drop the price.

 

[BishopLamont]

Oh I see. So sales is how we're defining good games I should give a shit about? :lol

You need to learn to accept differences.

When did I say that? You're judging success based on game quality, which is wrong. It's funny you mention only the non-games and yet you leave out all the traditional games.

That's why he said "in [his] eyes".

Do you really expect a third-party to invest $10-20 million into a 'hardcore' Wii game? Who is going to take that kind of risk when your game would be deployed to a platform where Wii Fit rules the day. I'd personally love to see a third-party take that risk but I don't think they ever will. Nintendo understands their userbase, third-parties, perhaps to their detriment, don't.

I don't expect shit, never said I did. There's a huge userbase growing at a rapid pace, if third parties want to eat, they better start serving.

 

[rollingstart]

So Tomb Raider is a gigantic failure looks like even though the last one was very successful. Very strange. Eidos is going down for sure within the next few months unless someone buys them.

Their potential golden goose now is Batman Arkham Asylum. If that game is both good and sells well, I think they could last and strive off good Batman games.

Then again I don't know how well Lego Batman sold.

 

[Yes Boss!]

Mario Kart DS and New Super Mario Bros. have been selling a shitload every month for years now. NSMB is actually on its way to outselling SMB3. It's about 2-3m away now.

Seems safe to say, then, that NSMB will eventually pass even Super Mario World to become the best-selling non pack-in Mario.

 

[Keikoku]

They can't drop the price.

Well, they have to.

 

[boiled goose]

Strange perspective. Wii is getting nintendo's best support since the SNES. Add in all the new Wii-branded games and there is just an overflow of content.

completely agree...

I think most people claiming nintendo is abandoning the core gamer doesnt realize how better it is compared to the gamecube days....

this gen core gamers already got core games: smash, galaxy, zelda, cart, fire emblem, bwii, prime 3, warioware, animal crossing, etc

the usual fair: mario party, strikers, sluggers, etc.

on top of that... fun casual stuff like wii sports, wii fit, etc... (have not tried wii music so i cannot include it here yet....)

third party support that i believe is already better than what gamecube had: guitar hero for first time in a nintendo platform, ZaW, no more heroes, REUC, de blob, and all the 2009 upcoming stuff..


The criticism I would have for nintendo this generation would not be the neglect of its core fanbase.

It would be lack of new, high budget IPs and a barren fall 2008 lineup.

 

[Oblivion]

Nobody is mentioning Mario Kart DS and its almost 200K in sales. That is pretty amazing. Wonder if it is the Mario Kart Wii "halo" effect.

It's kind of a shame really. Nintendo didn't even attempt to hype it up like they did with SSBB, yet it's clearly bitchslapping it. I'd rather have a sub par Smash Bros. sell than a sub par Mario Kart. Oh, and the fact that Galaxy isn't garnering those sales sucks too.

 

[Bizzyb]

Is it now safe to say LBP bombed?

I know Shane was really hoping it wasn't a bomb but...the numbers do not lie.

 

[Barrett2]

xx.) PS3 MORTAL KOMBAT VS. DC UNIVERSE 141.000 - 184.000
xx.) PS3 LITTLE BIG PLANET 141.000

If someone had said three months ago that MK on a single platform would outsell LBP in November, they would have been ridiculed as a moron. :lol :lol

Spoiler

I own both games!!

 

[Y2Kev]

Just looking at the prospects for an acquisition of EA by Disney now. It's tough to get a good public comp, but using the Activision Blizzard acquisition comp of a year ago, this could be big if it were to happen. If Disney's biggest acquisition in its history was Pixar (where could I check this?) at 7.4 billion, this could be much much bigger. With Disney trying to get into gaming, the synergies could be large.

I suppose now would be the time with EA's stock absolutely crashing, but if Disney were to try this in a normalized economy, it would be absolutely enormous.

 

[BishopLamont]

completely agree...

I think most people claiming nintendo is abandoning the core gamer doesnt realize how better it is compared to the gamecube days....

this gen core gamers already got core games: smash, galaxy, zelda, cart, fire emblem, bwii, prime 3, warioware, animal crossing, etc

the usual fair: mario party, strikers, sluggers, etc.

on top of that... fun casual stuff like wii sports, wii fit, etc... (have not tried wii music so i cannot include it here yet....)

third party support that i believe is already better than what gamecube had: guitar hero for first time in a nintendo platform, ZaW, no more heroes, REUC, de blob, and all the 2009 upcoming stuff..


The criticism I would have for nintendo this generation would not be the neglect of its core fanbase.

It would be lack of new, high budget IPs and a barren fall 2008 lineup.

Ah someone with some sense at last. Well done.

Is it now safe to say LBP bombed?

I know Shane was really hoping it wasn't a bomb but...the numbers do not lie.

Not a bomb, but below expectations would be fitting.

 

[TJ Spyke]

Seems safe to say, then, that NSMB will eventually pass even Super Mario World to become the best-selling non pack-in Mario.

Um, Super Mario World was a pack-in with the SNES when it launched (I don't know when they stopped though).

 

[soldat7]

I don't expect shit, never said I did. There's a huge userbase growing at a rapid pace, if third parties want to eat, they better start serving.

Mad World and Muramasa look incredible and I can't wait to play them, but I'm afraid for how they will sell. I don't know, this is just a very confusing time for developers and publishers alike.

 

[LCfiner]

Well, they have to.

but they can't

 

[Yes Boss!]

The criticism I would have for nintendo this generation would not be the neglect of its core fanbase.

It would be lack of new, high budget IPs and a barren fall 2008 lineup.

I do believe that high-profile releases like Wii Fit and Wii Music fall into this. Those two games really feel like Nintendo throwing a ton of resources at them. Incredibly well-made and slick.

Um, Super Mario World was a pack-in with the SNES when it launched (I don't know when they stopped though).

Yep, you are correct. Sorry, forgot about that...I had a japanese Super Famicom and I had to buy it separate.

 

[onipex]

Not to me they don't. :lol

It's still a failure in my eyes. If you like Nintendo's output as of late (Wario Land/ Smash/Mario Kart/ AC), then in your eyes, they're a success. Good for you.

Yes, you have a point. I fixed it for me , but I have no problem with the other games you listed either so I guess that is very good for me.

 

[Grecco]

Well, they have to.

Not really.

 

[BishopLamont]

Mad World and Muramasa look incredible and I can't wait to play them, but I'm afraid for how they will sell. I don't know, this is just a very confusing time for developers and publishers alike.

I don't expect Muramasa to light the world on fire, but Mad World needs to sell a shit load.

Oh and guys stop going back and forth with the PS3's price drop, they need it, but they can't. There's nothing that can be done.

 

[Keikoku]

but they can't

Why ? Because they will lose money then ? I assume that MS is losing money right now too because of the low price of the 360. But the point is not about winning or losing money, it's about winning the HD market and have the higher install base.

 

[AniHawk]

Seems safe to say, then, that NSMB will eventually pass even Super Mario World to become the best-selling non pack-in Mario.

Super Mario World was bundled, but only the one that was included with the All-Star games.

 

[boiled goose]

That's why he said "in [his] eyes".

Do you really expect a third-party to invest $10-20 million into a 'hardcore' Wii game? Who is going to take that kind of risk when your game would be deployed to a platform where Wii Fit rules the day. I'd personally love to see a third-party take that risk but I don't think they ever will. Nintendo understands their userbase, third-parties, perhaps to their detriment, don't.



Again, Nintendo games always shine the brightest and Nintendo has a history of making that happen. The historical data indicates that Nintendo customers tend to buy Nintendo-made games. You can't fault third-party pubs for coming to this type of conclusion.

You do know that the Wii is already about 15 million units sold above the gamecube (and growing quickly as you can see)....

There are a crapton of customers who are new owners of a nintendo console... so there really is no excuses for third parties....

if anything by releasing crap on the they will push those customers towards nintendo's games which are most of the time very high quality games.

With the large userbase of the wii there is no excuse...

You cant say that these are both new customers and loyal nintendo customers at once...

 

[Saint Gregory]

I brought this up before but there must be another explaination for what happened to this Holiday's Wii release schedule besides the idea that Wii Music and AC would be enough. If Nintendo decided that they were done appealing to dedicated gamers with the Wii they did an awful job of it for the first year or so of its lifespan with all those great releases.

Even Reggie seemed to think early this year that there were going to be big Wii games this quarter so WTF happened?

 

[BishopLamont]

I brought this up before but there must be another explaination for what happened to this Holiday's Wii release schedule besides the idea that Wii Music and AC would be enough. If Nintendo decided that they were done appealing to dedicated gamers with the Wii they did an aweful job of it for the first year or so of its lifespan with all those great releases.

Even Reggie seemed to think early this year that there were going to be big Wii games this quarter so WTF happened?

Reggie is really out of touch with the core fanbase if he thought AC is a hardcore offering. I wouldn't take Reggie seriously at all.

You do know that the Wii is already about 15 million units sold above the gamecube (and growing quickly as you can see)....

There are a crapton of customers who are new owners of a nintendo console... so there really is no excuses for third parties....

if anything by releasing crap on the they will push those customers towards nintendo's games which are most of the time very high quality games.

With the large userbase of the wii there is no excuse...

You cant say that these are both new customers and loyal nintendo customers at once...

Exactly. Obviously there's a subset of Wii customers that are rapid Nintendo fanboys, who will buy most Nintendo games, but there's a huge chunk of new players. They're going to get a fix of their games somewhere, if it's not third party games, it's going to be Nintendo's.

 

[[Nintex]]

Why ? Because they will lose money then ? I assume that MS is losing money right now too because of the low price of the 360. But the point is not about winning or losing money, it's about winning the HD market and have the higher install base.

Sony won't rescue the PS3 by putting their company at risk. They're bleeding money and they need to cut jobs the last thing they'll do is take another hit on their profits. The only possibility is a decrease in production costs or a big push if the Playstation will be their main product and they've cut some fat from the company.

I brought this up before but there must be another explaination for what happened to this Holiday's Wii release schedule besides the idea that Wii Music and AC would be enough. If Nintendo decided that they were done appealing to dedicated gamers with the Wii they did an awful job of it for the first year or so of its lifespan with all those great releases.

Even Reggie seemed to think early this year that there were going to be big Wii games this quarter so WTF happened?

I guess the Wii Motion Plus happened and whatever Nintendo had in store for Q4 2008 has been delayed for the Motion Plus. It seems that Nintendo's 2009 line-up is going to blow 2008 out of the water. We do know that EAD have Pikmin 3, Zelda, Wii Sports Resort in development/production right now. With a little luck both Pikmin 3 and Zelda could be this years heavy hitters. After all it will be 3 years after TP's release and 3.5 years since the development was done(spring/summer 06)

 

[AniHawk]

Reggie is really out of touch with the core fanbase if he thought AC is a hardcore offering. I wouldn't take Reggie seriously at all.

Tree-Chopping Mafia's about as hardcore as it gets, man.

 

[Weisheit]

One that you apparently don't have an argument against.

Jesus Christ. So, your response to 3rd parties not trying on Wii is to.....completely change the subject? Brilliant.