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[E-phonk]

So, isn't it fair to say that the Wii's success is not directly the cause of the PS3's or X360's lower sales?

I would agree that without the Wii, sales of PS3 and X360 would still be about the same as they currently are. The price barrier is just too big - maybe x360 would've sold 1 million more at this point if nintendo wouldn't exist.

Microsoft didn't need an "elite" they needed a "affordable" 250 version that didn't feel like a ripoff.

EDIT: and the technical problems are also something that scare people into buying a 360. I know it's holding me back. MS really has to clean that mess.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

:lol Looks like DenogginizerOS can't keep up with his own arguements.

I am trying to generate discussion. If you have something to contribute, why don't you add to it and address what you disagree with rather than mocking me.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I am trying to generate discussion. If you have something to contribute, why don't you add to it and address what you disagree with rather than mocking me.

Generate or instigate? The whole "answering questions with questions" thing doesn't exactly spark genuine discussion.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I am trying to generate discussion. If you have something to contribute, why don't you add to it and address what you disagree with rather than mocking me.

But you aren't generating discussion you're arguing in circles. For that I mock!

And the thread is 40 pages long...It doesn't need you to save it by "generating discussion".

 

[psycho_snake]

Price is a factor, but not the Major one. Hype is needed and the Wii got plenty of hype to move units. And Wii Sports the ultimate system seller.

They had their userbase sell systems for them by inviting over family and friends at christmas and demoing the system.

Price is a major factor. If it wasnt for the PS3's high price, it would be doing better, but not as well as sony would like because it doesnt have a good games library.

Sony can get themselves out of this mess as long as they have a decent price cut before the big titles are released.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't?

It brings out the pettiness and jealously of the mindless fanboys for any other console moreso than any other machine before it. That is what it brings to the videogame industry, or at least boards like this.

That is the fun about NPD time, you can easily seperate the mindless fanboys for any system. Few people on here will look at things objectively, otherwise it turns into a crap slinging contest for fanboy supremecy.

Kidding aside, it is bringing more people into the market and also completely reinvented the way we control our games. It can still control games just like before but has also opened up the door for many new ideas and the next few years will be interesting to see what people come up with. Remember it took about a year or so for the DS to get its stride and developers start to think outside the box and take advantage of the system.

Now as for the numbers, the DS is unstoppable. The Wii continues to kill. PS2 just keeps on chugging. I do have to say I am disappointed in 360 numbers, but it does show it is time for a price drop. The system has the games people want, but I think they have kind of approached the peak at that price point. Most consumers know the price will drop eventually, and coming up on the 2 year mark in a few months, they expect the drop to be soon. I seriously think people are holding out now.

And for the PS3, it did worse than I expected. I expected low, but not that low. The system needs to drop the price badly (Sony cant lose that much money though) and also get out some major system selling software that is exclusive to it. I just dont see ANYTHING coming along that would make that system fly off the shelf. There are many great games coming for it that appeal to many gamers, but nothing that would just grab EVERYONE, casuals included, that is exlusive to it. If GTA4 were exclusive, that might sway things a little bit, but not even Final Fantasy or Metal Gear will move systems the way they need. I dont think even Gran Turismo would. The only thing that could honestly move PS3s the way Sony needs is to have EA Sports exclusively, and we are more likely to have a meteor strike every EB/GS on the planet than that to happen.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Generate or instigate? The whole "answering questions with questions" thing doesn't exactly spark genuine discussion.

I am not instigating fights. If asking questions is a form of instigation to you, I suggest you never go for a PhD.

 

[Threi]

my work is done here.

:lol

 

[AstroLad]

I would agree that without the Wii, sales of PS3 and X360 would still be about the same as they currently are. The price barrier is just too big - maybe x360 would've sold 1 million more at this point if nintendo wouldn't exist.

Microsoft didn't need an "elite" they needed a "affordable" 250 version that didn't feel like a ripoff.

EDIT: and the technical problems are also something that scare people into buying a 360. I know it's holding me back. MS really has to clean that mess.

Of course MS would sell more consoles with lower price points. I don't get why everyone is still arguing this as if there's any resistance to the notion. The question is whether it's a smart move right now from a business perspective and not necessarily a get-marketshare-now-at-all-costs perspective. People knock the idea that a price drop would be bad for 360's "reputation" but there's much more to it than that. I've argued for a price drop as well, so I'm not knocking the substantive notion, just the idea that it's so simple.

Hell, if all MS cared about was marketshare, short of giving away 360s, price the premium at $300 and including Halo 3 as a pack-in for the holidays.

As to the "technical problems" I think they only people affected at all by this are a small subset of forumgoers. It didn't stop the PS2 and for the most part, even though there's the occasional mainstream press article about it, consumers are completely unaware.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

But you aren't generating discussion you're arguing in circles. For that I mock!

And the thread is 40 pages long...It doesn't need you to save it by "generating discussion".

What would you prefer from a Gaming Discussion forum?

 

[teruterubozu]

What would you prefer from a Gaming Discussion forum?

Ah, more questions.

 

[psycho_snake]

Waggle?

Ofcourse thats a selling point. No other console allows you to play games like that.

 

[urk]

What would you prefer from a Gaming Discussion forum?

Either mindless allegiance or unabashed hatred. Those are your two choices. Get with the program, bro.

 

[DarkMage619]

Nintendo once again has excellent sales of both hardware and software. Something very telling is still evident in the Nintnedo numbers. No 3rd party titles to be found selling big numbers on thier platform. There is no way that Nintendo will be the development platform of choice for 3rd party developers if 3rd party software doesn't move the same units as the other companies. Nintendo has shown for many years now that the best selling software for their systems comes from them and them alone. At least this means that 3rd party support for other consoles will still be strong.

The Dark One

 

[DemonSwordsman]

well sony and MS better drop the prices fast because i dont wanna play shitty minigames thats for sure. If i wanted to play those games i would have bought a DS a long time ago.

 

[Haunted]

Even though this is a stupid post, I'm gonna reply to it anyway. Instead of thinking of it like business, think of it like Football (either version), you root for your team, you don't get anything out of it, you even pay the team to watch the game, you follow them.

Why is following a football team (which is basically a company anyway) any less ludicrous then following a videogame company? it's only an extension of what the human race has been doing for 2000 years anyway.

NPD is our version of "the big match" and MC is our version of "the weekly game".

QFT!

That's what I've been repeating over and over again.

 

[Evlar]

I don't care. I have no agenda here. But you said affordable gaming and I am not sure how a $250 Wii is more affordable than a $129 PS2.

It isn't.

It would appear people are making purchasing decisions based on affordability AND other factors.

 

[Grecco]

well sony and MS better drop the prices fast because i dont wanna play shitty minigames thats for sure. If i wanted to play those games i would have bought a DS a long time ago.

Ho Ho Ho!

 

[Jive Turkey]

What would you prefer from a Gaming Discussion forum?

A complete and total lack of logical debate which you have now provided plenty. I wasn't complaining.

 

[justchris]

And for the PS3, it did worse than I expected. I expected low, but not that low. The system needs to drop the price badly (Sony cant lose that much money though) and also get out some major system selling software that is exclusive to it. I just dont see ANYTHING coming along that would make that system fly off the shelf. There are many great games coming for it that appeal to many gamers, but nothing that would just grab EVERYONE, casuals included, that is exlusive to it. If GTA4 were exclusive, that might sway things a little bit, but not even Final Fantasy or Metal Gear will move systems the way they need. I dont think even Gran Turismo would. The only thing that could honestly move PS3s the way Sony needs is to have EA Sports exclusively, and we are more likely to have a meteor strike every EB/GS on the planet than that to happen.

I don't know, I'm still not convinced GTA isn't a fad.

 

[darthbane2k]

well sony and MS better drop the prices fast because i dont wanna play shitty minigames thats for sure. If i wanted to play those games i would have bought a DS a long time ago.

 

[Gio_CoD]

Nintendo once again has excellent sales of both hardware and software. Something very telling is still evident in the Nintnedo numbers. No 3rd party titles to be found selling big numbers on thier platform. There is no way that Nintendo will be the development platform of choice for 3rd party developers if 3rd party software doesn't move the same units as the other companies. Nintendo has shown for many years now that the best selling software for their systems comes from them and them alone. At least this means that 3rd party support for other consoles will still be strong.

The Dark One

3rd party software, for the most part, is already selling better on the Wii than it is on the PS3. Comparing it to the 360 isn't exactly apples to apples at the moment due to the user base discrepancy. When Wii overtakes 360 later this year, then we can start looking at comparative 3rd party sales.

 

[Gio_CoD]

GTA isn't a fad. 4 will sell phenomenally well, but I don't think it will come close to last gen numbers. I think we'll probably see combined sales of ~4 million for GTA4.

 

[borghe]

How is the Wii?

ok, now you are just being obtuse. waggle, whether you like it or not, adds to the industry. Different types of control of preferable to just a single type of control. It's why we have dance mats, steering wheels, light guns, microphones, and freaking guitars. I'm sorry if you find it a useless gimmick and offering nothing to the types of games you play, but the bottom line is that it is an additional control method that is available for developers to utilize.

As to how Wii is maturing the industry. I pray and hope you mean mature as growing and expanding the industry both at the consumer level and the software level vs. "mature games" which is just a stupid and useless argument. We've already seen how Wii is doing it. Bringing in lapsed gamers, new gamers, non-gamers. As many have said before, without Wii sales it is probable that we wouldn't even see PS3 and 360 sales increase. That would be HORRIBLE and would suggest that this generation is much slower and less impacting than either of the previous two gens. At least Wii is able to augment and strengthen what would otherwise be a pretty soft start to this generation.

But really when this thread comes down to it.. I don't think there are any Wii owners that are happy at the slow sales of PS3 and 360. I don't think there are even many Wii owners who believe they will never own a 360 or PS3. What I see is a bunch of Wii owners getting defensive because PS3 and 360 owners are bashing Wii attempting to justify why their systems aren't selling (ruining the industry, segmenting the market, waggle, yadda yadda yadda)

 

[Bluemercury]

well sony and MS better drop the prices fast because i dont wanna play shitty minigames thats for sure. If i wanted to play those games i would have bought a DS a long time ago.

Too bad ds currently has a great library without the so called minigames.....

 

[justchris]

GTA isn't a fad. 4 will sell phenomenally well, but I don't think it will come close to last gen numbers. I think we'll probably see combined sales of ~4 million for GTA4.

Oh, so it's one of those pokeman style fads. I gotcha.

 

[Gio_CoD]

Oh, so it's one of those pokeman style fads. I gotcha.

What?

 

[darthbane2k]

As to how Wii is maturing the industry. I pray and hope you mean mature as growing and expanding the industry both at the consumer level and the software level vs. "mature games" which is just a stupid and useless argument.

I love the 'mature games' debate!
At the age of 27 I find all of the Saints Rows to the GTAs to the 50 Cent Bulletproofs as some of the most immature titles I have ever come across! Only a 12 year old would find games like that mature. That is not to discredit them, but rather to discredit the arguement.
What these 'hardcore' gamers dont realise is that the most mature game of the past 5 years is probably this...

 

[Ponn]

I love the 'mature games' debate!
At the age of 27 I find all of the Saints Rows to the GTAs to the 50 Cent Bulletproofs as some of the most immature titles I have ever come across! Only a 12 year old would find games like that mature. That is not to discredit them, but rather to discredit the arguement.
What these 'hardcore' gamers dont realise is that the most mature game of the past 5 years is probably this...

The mods let you out?

 

[borghe]

No 3rd party titles to be found selling big numbers on thier platform.

What major and high quality 3rd party titles were released for the system in April? Everyone always likes to point back to low third party sales on a Nintendo system as a reason why third parties don't embrace it. Yet we've now seen on the DS and previously on the GCN that when companies release high quality third party titles, they sell well. Madden07, Red Steel, Rayman, Trauma Center.. all games that sold respectable numbers on the Wii. Are we really going to bring up the third party argument because crap like Spider-Man 3, Meet the Robinsons, and Bust-A-Move Bash failed to chart on the system?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

What I see is a bunch of Wii owners getting defensive because PS3 and 360 owners are bashing Wii attempting to justify why their systems aren't selling (ruining the industry, segmenting the market, waggle, yadda yadda yadda)

I am not claiming the Wii is ruining the industry, I don't think it is segmenting the market as much as it is creating a new one, and I don't think waggle is the only reason Wii is selling and it is not the reason it will succeed or fail.

I am done with this thread.

 

[Haunted]

ok, now you are just being obtuse. waggle, whether you like it or not, adds to the industry. Different types of control of preferable to just a single type of control. It's why we have dance mats, steering wheels, light guns, microphones, and freaking guitars. I'm sorry if you find it a useless gimmick and offering nothing to the types of games you play, but the bottom line is that it is an additional control method that is available for developers to utilize.

As to how Wii is maturing the industry. I pray and hope you mean mature as growing and expanding the industry both at the consumer level and the software level vs. "mature games" which is just a stupid and useless argument. We've already seen how Wii is doing it. Bringing in lapsed gamers, new gamers, non-gamers. As many have said before, without Wii sales it is probable that we wouldn't even see PS3 and 360 sales increase. That would be HORRIBLE and would suggest that this generation is much slower and less impacting than either of the previous two gens. At least Wii is able to augment and strengthen what would otherwise be a pretty soft start to this generation.

But really when this thread comes down to it.. I don't think there are any Wii owners that are happy at the slow sales of PS3 and 360. I don't think there are even many Wii owners who believe they will never own a 360 or PS3. What I see is a bunch of Wii owners getting defensive because PS3 and 360 owners are bashing Wii attempting to justify why their systems aren't selling (ruining the industry, segmenting the market, waggle, yadda yadda yadda)

good analysis, especially the second paragraph and the last sentence.

 

[jjasper]

Are we really going to bring up the third party argument because crap like Spider-Man 3, Meet the Robinsons, and Bust-A-Move Bash failed to chart on the system?

Spiderman 3 was a big release, even if the game sucked

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Nintendo once again has excellent sales of both hardware and software. Something very telling is still evident in the Nintnedo numbers. No 3rd party titles to be found selling big numbers on thier platform. There is no way that Nintendo will be the development platform of choice for 3rd party developers if 3rd party software doesn't move the same units as the other companies. Nintendo has shown for many years now that the best selling software for their systems comes from them and them alone. At least this means that 3rd party support for other consoles will still be strong.

Well, IIRC:

New Wii games from Nintendo in April -- Super Paper Mario
New Wii games from 3rd parties in April -- Bust a Move Bash / Prince of Persia: Rival Swords

New DS games from Nintendo in April -- Pokemon Diamond/Pearl
New DS games from 3rd parties in April -- Cake Mania / Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales / SNK Vs Capcom Card Fighters

...and you're surprised that SPM, Pokemon & Wii Play dominated?

 

[borghe]

Spiderman 3 was a big release, even if the game sucked

do we know what SM3 sold on Wii? Because by my count it only sold to around 2% of the 360 userbase. Forecasting those numbers to Wii as long as it sold 44K it would have the same attach rate as the 360 version.

 

[jarrod]

Spiderman 3 was a big release, even if the game sucked

But it was avaialble on 7 other platforms, 5 of which also failed to chart... I wouldn't take Spider-Man 3's perfromance as indicative of 3rd party trends on any platform really.

I bet the Wii release outsold the PS3 one tho. :lol

 

[justchris]

What?

Because Pokemon isn't a fad but..., you know what, nevermind.

 

[itsme]

Nintendo once again has excellent sales of both hardware and software. Something very telling is still evident in the Nintnedo numbers. No 3rd party titles to be found selling big numbers on thier platform. There is no way that Nintendo will be the development platform of choice for 3rd party developers if 3rd party software doesn't move the same units as the other companies. Nintendo has shown for many years now that the best selling software for their systems comes from them and them alone. At least this means that 3rd party support for other consoles will still be strong.
The Dark One

Many people point out the importance of the exclusive titles, but one thing people miss out is that the importance of cross platform titles. Remember that 3rd party sports titles dried up for Gamecube's early life due to pure sales? Even though many 3rd parties choose multi-platform, the sales figure will determine the next main platform and even drop out of a platform that leads to less support for the poor performer. That's what happened to GameCube.

What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't?
DenogginizerOS

It brings an end of an era, the hardcore gaming that video game industry as a whole has been building from the beginning. Hardcore gamers are not at the center of attention for Wii, and that upsets lots of those gamers, hence Wii bashing. I would take it as a growing pain since after this transition, the market will grow significantly, and the industry will be more stable.

 

[BuzzJive]

No 3rd party titles to be found selling big numbers on thier platform. There is no way that Nintendo will be the development platform of choice for 3rd party developers if 3rd party software doesn't move the same units as the other companies.

Yeah. There were lots of big third party Wii releases that should easily be in the overall top 10. Such as:

Bust-a-Move Bash!
Bionicle Heroes
Heatseeker
Legend of the Dragon
Spider-Man 3

Third parties are really putting forth their best efforts and just not being rewarded at all...

 

[Taxman]

Even though this is a stupid post, I'm gonna reply to it anyway. Instead of thinking of it like business, think of it like Football (either version), you root for your team, you don't get anything out of it, you even pay the team to watch the game, you follow them.

Why is following a football team (which is basically a company anyway) any less ludicrous then following a videogame company? it's only an extension of what the human race has been doing for 2000 years anyway.

NPD is our version of "the big match" and MC is our version of "the weekly game".

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I do think of it like football. I think that both sports and these threads are intellectually pointless. We don't get much directly from the outcome from either. But I draw a huge line between "absurd" and "intellectually absurd." Something doesn't have to be logically justified to be worthwhile. Sports and NPDs are about emotion and entertainment, neither of which is heavily based in logic.
I don't think these threads and the reactions in them are stupid or pointless. Rationally absurd as they are, that just makes them even more fun. I just get extra enjoyment from the idea that only in sports and videogames do you see such similar behavior. As I said in my first post, you don't see people getting worked up over over-the-counter pain medication.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Gaming is going down the drain with Nintendo Leading the way.

Its going to be awful when Shallow Crap like Wii Sports 3 will outself Mario Galaxy and Zelda combined

 

[jordan0386]

and we're off...

 

[darthbane2k]

Gaming is going down the drain with Nintendo Leading the way.

Its going to be awful when Shallow Crap like Wii Sports 3 will outself Mario Galaxy and Zelda combined

Gaming would be going down the drain if the mass market could no longer afford the consoles..

$400 > $600 > $800 > $1000 - if Sony were to win this gen, where would it end?..

 

[plagiarize]

Yeah. There were lots of big third party Wii releases that should easily be in the overall top 10. Such as:

Bust-a-Move Bash!
Bionicle Heroes
Heatseeker
Legend of the Dragon
Spider-Man 3

Third parties are really putting forth their best efforts and just not being rewarded at all...

you have to wonder what the budgets of dreck like the above is too. does it really need to get into the overall top ten to be profitable?

somehow i highly doubt it.

 

[koam]

THE GOGGLES.. THEY DO NOTHING..

Seriously, some of you people really need to take off your fanboy glasses. There are numerous amount of reasons the Wii is selling and you guys are coming up with the dumbest excuses.

First of all, the wii isn't only selling to old people and casuals. You want proof, look at super paper mario and Zelda sales. There are MANY hardcore Nintendo gamers out there and many have been around since the NES days.

Secondly, there are tons of great games on the Wii. Zelda is one of the best games ever, Wii sports is the biggest thing to happen to the sport genre since NHL 94. Super Paper Mario is awesome. Godfather reinvents the sandbox genre. Wario ware, Excite Truck and Trauma Center show that the remote can enhance gameplay. The Virtual Console is getting more and more saturated with quality titles.

Thirdly, where are all the "non-games" everyone keeps mentioning? I see them on the DS, but the wii has none in north america. I see mini games but i don't see any non-games.

Then we got the price. The console is fully equiped, comes with a game, has wifi built right in and is only a fraction of the cost of the 360 and ps3.

And finally, the wiimote is the biggest controller innovation since the analog stick. The pointer is fantastic, the two handed motion controls work great and the having both hands liberated is pretty damn cool in my book.

 

[urk]

It's just like football, except all the players are skinny fat with tiny twig arms and spare tires. And instead of barbed wire or tribal tattoos, they go with Triforce and Mushroom tats. And the winning team doesn't say anything like, "We'd just like to thank all the fans." And your city doesn't get any revenue. But when one team wins, there are still a bunch of dudes that run around and rub everyone else's nose in their steaming piles of unbridled pleasure. That part is the same.

 

[RBH]

:lol

 

[AdmiralViscen]

It's funny how if you said "5 digit sales are expected for a $600 console" one year ago you would have been a Sony troll, and now you are a Sony spinner.

 

[Frank the Great]

whats up with all the babies who are bitching about the wii's success?

nintendo found a strategy that worked, deal with it and grow up. jeez.

you guys are acting just like the ninny boys did when PS2 was creaming the GCN, maybe even worse.

*goes back to playing ps2*

 

[MrSardonic]

:lol this thread is pure gold. So many tears shed.