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[darthbane2k]

PS2 had a larger library of appealing titles.

And there we have it!

Just what in the hell appeals to the mass market and casual gamers on the PS3?
And bear in mind that the Wii will have the larger libary of games due to the greater support from developers. Thats what sales do.

 

[HolyCheck]

it's taken me a good 12 hours on and off, but i'm finally up to this page

lol @ sony.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Oh, I'm sure you're right about that, I expect both PS3 & 360 to see price cuts this year, and I don't expect one for Wii until next year at this point, I just don't believe it'll make as much difference as you seem to. Your argument is flawed, you're confusing the general market with the enthusiast market. And the greater majority of the gaming market (those 100 million+ people who own PS2s) are general consumers, not enthusiasts. The entire value proposition is different for the two markets.

And your logic is flawed if you think the "casuals" who own PS2's now are the ones buying Wii's. I think the Wii's sales are more of a result of a new userbase that has not been in games the last few years. The fact the Wii is selling well does not mean that the same "casuals" who are buying PS2's want to buy a Wii. And vice versa.

 

[jarrod]

Well, there *are* a few Mario games slated for 2007... but it's really not so bad even compared to other Nintendo brands...

Mario
-Mario Kart: Arcade GP2 (TF) Namco
-Super Paper Mario (Wii) Intelligent Systems
-Mario Strikers: Charged (Wii) Next Level Games
-Mario Party 8 (Wii) Hudson
-Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) Nintendo EAD
-Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii/DS) SEGA AM Sports R&D

Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong Racing DS (DS) RARE
-Donkey Kong: Barrel Jet (Wii) Paon
-DK King of Swing DS (DS) Paon

Pokemon
-Pokemon Diamond/Pearl (DS) Game Freak/Creatures
-Pokemon Battle Revolution (Wii) Genius Sonority
-Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2 (DS) Chunsoft

Legend of Zelda
-Tingle RPG (DS) Vanpool
-The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS) Nintendo EAD

Wario
-Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (Wii) Nintendo SPD/Intelligent Systems
-Wario: Master of Disguise (DS) Suzak

 

[DenogginizerOS]

And there we have it!

Just what in the hell appeals to the mass market and casual gamers on the PS3?
And bear in mind that the Wii will have the larger libary of games due to the greater support from developers. Thats what sales do.

Ahem. All of those PS2 games play on PS3, perhaps?

 

[darthbane2k]

Ahem. All of those PS2 games play on PS3, perhaps?

Right.. so the mass market are happy to shell out $600 just to play PS2 games eh? :lol

 

[Vagabundo]

Ahem. All of those PS2 games play on PS3, perhaps?

Not on Euro PS3s they dont.

 

[borghe]

a price cut won't do shit for PS3 right now. a similar cut probably would help MS out quite a bit. You guys act like people are magically frothing at the mouth for these consoles and just waiting for the drops to happen. When I walk past the PS3 sections in CC and Best Buy, I see indifference and emptiness. The system doesn't have the mass appeal games right now.. it doesn't have a mass market system seller. they can drop the price by $200 at this point and I honestly don't even see that swaying someone from a 360 which has a much deeper library currently. I know PS3 has only been out for 6 months, and I'm not necessarily saying it has a poor library given it's time since release.. It's facing the same problem MS did a year ago. lack of compelling games. However they have ANOTHER problem in the $600 price tag as well. I fully believe they captured most of the early adopters.. the ones who will pick up a system with little content and little regard for price. the bottom line is they need both a price drop AND a slew of system selling software (well, at least a title or two) to turn things around. if they can do this before this winter they can still stay competitive with MS for a strong second place.

and yes, I really think at this point it's nintendo's game to lose. Neither MS nor Sony are going to take Nintendo down at this point.. Only Nintendo can hurt Nintendo..

 

[Pureauthor]

Ahem. All of those PS2 games play on PS3, perhaps?

So I'm going to blow USD 600 to play games when I could pay the exact same games for... what was it, again? USD 170?

 

[Wyndstryker]

I wake up and we're at page 39? Damn...

What did I miss?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Right.. so the mass market are happy to shell out $600 just to play PS2 games eh? :lol

Christ. It is a selling point. The mass market consists primarily of PS2 owners. Not THE selling point, but it is one nonetheless. Sheesh.

 

[borghe]

So I'm going to blow USD 600 to play games when I could pay the exact same games for... what was it, again? USD 170?

or most likely the system you already have sitting there underneath your TV.

 

[urk]

...what was it, again? USD 170?

$129.99.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii? What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't? How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

 

[justchris]

And your logic is flawed if you think the "casuals" who own PS2's now are the ones buying Wii's. I think the Wii's sales are more of a result of a new userbase that has not been in games the last few years. The fact the Wii is selling well does not mean that the same "casuals" who are buying PS2's want to buy a Wii. And vice versa.

Honestly, it's hard to be sure since the Wii is still supply constrained, but I know a few of the casual PS2 gamers did move on to Wii. I wouldn't assume all of them would, or even half of them would, but chances are at least some of them have. And some of Wii's install base are former GC owners. And some of Wii's install base are all new console owners. It would be illogical to say that the console with the most sales has a homogeneous userbase.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

a price cut won't do shit for PS3 right now. a similar cut probably would help MS out quite a bit. You guys act like people are magically frothing at the mouth for these consoles and just waiting for the drops to happen. When I walk past the PS3 sections in CC and Best Buy, I see indifference and emptiness.

Also, in terms of the consumer mindset, the section is smaller and even the boxes are smaller. Combined with the color design, it just doesn't pop out at you like the all white Wii boxes and the GreenBox section. Aesthetically speaking, it doesn't work hard to draw anyone's attention toward it.

 

[AstroLad]

Honestly, it's hard to be sure since the Wii is still supply constrained, but I know a few of the casual PS2 gamers did move on to Wii. I wouldn't assume all of them would, or even half of them would, but chances are at least some of them have. And some of Wii's install base are former GC owners. And some of Wii's install base are all new console owners. It would be illogical to say that the console with the most sales has a homogeneous userbase.

Haven't you heard that all of the Wii's sales are to hardcore former Gamecube owners?

 

[Pureauthor]

$129.99.

Even better. I really should consider getting a new one, considering my current one's on the fritz.

 

[Threi]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii? What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't? How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

Affordable gaming.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Affordable gaming.

Is $129.99 for a PS2 not "affordable gaming"?

 

[DoubleTap]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii? What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't? How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

You're kidding right? You may not like what it brings but it's there.

 

[Threi]

Is $129.99 for a PS2 not "affordable gaming"?

Ok now you are just stumbling on your arguments. Do you want people to buy a PS2 or PS3?

 

[darthbane2k]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii? What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't? How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

1) Affordable Gaming (meaning I didnt have to blow half a freaking grand on the console alone)

2)Inclusive Gaming - something that appeals also to my wife and children who now game with me

3) Nintendo Games. Now this is a taste thing, but I grew up on Nintendo Games, my wife loves the nostalgia of the virtual consoles, and generally I have found more Sony-centric games to be sterlie and non-inclusive (see point 2). But to most gamers, this wont affect them.

4) Innovation. Yes that damn wii mote controller again. But it innovates and increases out interaction with the game. Just how many more bloody years do the 'hardcore' want to rely on the same SNES/Dual Shock controller design...

 

[DenogginizerOS]

You're kidding right? You may not like what it brings but it's there.

Waggle?

 

[Grecco]

Is $129.99 for a PS2 not "affordable gaming"?

How is the PS2 leading to the "maturation" of the industry?

 

[urk]

Is $129.99 for a PS2 not "affordable gaming"?

It is. Which is why, at the end of it's cycle, it's still outselling two out of three next gen consoles. It's got some really long legs on it.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Ok now you are just stumbling on your arguments. Do you want people to buy a PS2 or PS3?

I don't care. I have no agenda here. But you said affordable gaming and I am not sure how a $250 Wii is more affordable than a $129 PS2.

 

[teruterubozu]

Is $129.99 for a PS2 not "affordable gaming"?

Dreamcast is affordable gaming.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

How is the PS2 leading to the "maturation" of the industry?

How is the Wii?

 

[Threi]

I don't care. I have no agenda here. But you said affordable gaming and I am not sure how a $250 Wii is more affordable than a $129 PS2.

Its more affordable than a $599 PS3, which was the console listed in the argument YOU started.

 

[darthbane2k]

I don't care. I have no agenda here. But you said affordable gaming and I am not sure how a $250 Wii is more affordable than a $129 PS2.

or a $50 PS1..

your arguement really isnt going anywhere..

 

[Grecco]

How is the Wii?

Guess.

 

[AstroLad]

Dreamcast is affordable gaming.

Also Gameboy Advance [looks at NPD].

 

[plagiarize]

Christ. It is a selling point. The mass market consists primarily of PS2 owners. Not THE selling point, but it is one nonetheless. Sheesh.

those people didn't buy a ps2 because it was the follow up to the playstation though. they bought the ps2 because it had the best library of games (most notably the best library of preowned games) and was at an affordable price.

now ask yourself this. which console is the most likely to reach that kind of sub $200 price first, and have an appropriate library of games?

i'm not saying the wii will have that library when it reaches $199, because it probably won't, but it's a matter of whether or not it gets that library before the 360 or PS3 reach $199, which i'd say is bloody likely.

 

[teruterubozu]

Plug-and-play is affordable gaming - we can go on and on with this nonsense.

 

[AirBrian]

It'll be interesting to see how the Elite will affect things next month. If it sells well, don't expect a 360 price drop any time soon.

 

[Threi]

How is the Wii?

It is bringing in an "Ocean" of potential new gamers, not just catering to the wants of an existing gaming audience and shunning any potential future gamers.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Its more affordable than a $599 PS3, which was the console listed in the argument YOU started.

I said "others".

 

[justchris]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii? What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't? How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

The Wii, not just in it's construction and presentation, but in it's entire philosophy, is designed to appeal the greatest number of people possible. It's goal is to change video games from being something just for enthusiasts, to being something for everyone. By doing this, it will bring more people into gaming. I see the Wii and it's early games as a gateway, to get people into trying gaming, and discovering they like it, and then moving on to more hardcore games, which they will also be able to get for their Wii because 3rd parties will see the hardware sales and jump in with a greater variety of games.

The Wii has to potential not just to expand the size of the market, but to significantly change the perception of the market, of video games as a whole. That will bring even more people into gaming, and with more people comes more money. The more money gaming makes, the better it is for gamers. I liken it to movies. Yeah, the greater majority of movies are cash-ins and blockbusters, but literally billions of dollars every year are spent on small art house films, new directors, new actors and the like, trying to find the next big thing. By making video games a truly mass market proposition, I forsee them getting the same kind of treatment, which means more experimental games, more blockbusters, and in general a greater variety, with publishers being more willing to take a chance on quirky, artistic and random concepts.

In the end, I believe the success of the Wii will lead to a larger market not just for Nintendo, but for Sony & Microsoft as well. I hope that by the end of this generation we'll look back on the the 165 consoles sold last generation (~115 PS2, ~25 Xbox, ~25 GC) and laugh at ourselves for thinking that was actually a significant number.

Edit: Oh yeah, the Wii also has waggle. That's kinda fun. More waggle for me please.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

It is bringing in an "Ocean" of potential new gamers, not just catering to the wants of an existing gaming audience and shunning any potential future gamers.

Right. As I pointed out a page or two ago, the Wii is doing what Nintendo wants it to do - carve out a new market. They have contended that they are the "new-generation" and are not competing with the PS3 or X360. And this is what is happening. So, isn't it fair to say that the Wii's success is not directly the cause of the PS3's or X360's lower sales?

 

[DoubleTap]

Waggle?

Yup. Tell me which other system sold this concept to the masses in a shorter period of time.

It's funny that you think the current market situation with gaming is Waggle vs. Traditional Gaming. I simply don't see it that way. The PS2's numbers prove it. The way I see it is,

PS2/Wii vs PS3/X360 - ie Last Gen vs. New Gen and to an extent SD vs HD.

The numbers show this so I don't see where you questioning the Wii's viabilty as a gaming console proves anything.

 

[E-phonk]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii? What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't? How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

1) It's affordable
2) Nintendo first party software
3) Waggle
4) It has games that I can play with my wife
5) The virtual console
6) Channels

 

[FIREBABY]

OK thats it!! Wii is still selling like crazy and I still can't find one. This will be the longest I have ever waited to get a console. Screw this!!!! Well I did help contribute to DS lite/Pokemon sells.:lol Bought 3 of those things.

 

[mcgarrett]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii?

I own multiple systems... but what I like about the Wii and the DS is that they're making video games accessible again, it has become an increasingly insular hobby over the years. Gears is great (not my personal cup of tea), but it caters to a very narrow audience of ultra-hardcore shooter fans.

What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't?

A pick-up-and-play control scheme and a focus on casual games that don't require massive investments of time. Not everyone is looking to spend 4 hours a night gaming.

How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

More people playing games (if Nintendo's strategy works) equals more people buying games. And I dispute the notion that something like Halo is somehow more "mature" than games Wii Sports -- what's so mature about space marines fighting aliens?

 

[Threi]

I said "others".

I am talking relative to the competition. If a consumer wants a NEW system they have a choice of PS3, 360 and Wii. PS2 is aging, and its lifespan is certainly limited.

 

[milanbaros]

I'm starting to think that shortages might hurt Nintendo's holiday sales. They have estimated shipping 14m from April through March '08. Thats 1.17m per month. Even if the wii becomes easier to find in August/September I think its going to be followed by shortaes again.

They should belooking at selling 1.17m in December in the US alone.

Anyone know anymore details on Nintendo's shipments?

 

[maxmars]

For those of you Wii die-hards, what are you most proud of about the Wii? What does the Wii bring to video games that the others can't? How do you see these sales trends benefitting the games industry and its maturation?

Proud? Not really. I'm proud of my sons, however.

The Wii is an affordable, durable, easy-to-use and feature-packed machine. Some of the games are really hilarious. Of course I see all the limits of the hardware, but I don't really care.

The 360 has some very nice games. But it's shoddily built, lacks features I am now accustomed to (e.g. wifi, a browser), has a monthly fee for what is essentially peer-to-peer matchmaking.

The PS3 is appealing, but at the moment not really worth €600 in games _and_ still not viable as a linux PC.

I don't have an HD setup, so blue ray, 720/1080 & friends really fly over my head.

 

[Jive Turkey]

:lol Looks like DenogginizerOS can't keep up with his own arguements.

 

[Xavien]

I love these threads, but at the same time my intellectual side is baffled by the Neogaf pastime of rooting for companies that the posters have no direct interest in as opposed to specific games. It seems absurd in an abstract way. Imagine what you would think if you found a message board arguing over sales figures in a totally different market:
"Well, yeah, of course Tylenol outsold Advil last month. With their price drop anyone would expect that."
"Advil Cold and Sinus is a fad. The novelty will wear off in a few months."
"Just wait until Tylenol releases their new improved Extra Strength Tylenol next month. Sales will pick up then and Tylenol will be fine."
"A.Tylenol = Sophisticated pain reliever
B.Advil = Capsule loaded with piss

Who would prefer option b? DOES. NOT. COMPUTE."

Even with all this said, Media Create and NPD threads are my most anticipated threads on the forum. Sometimes you just need to tell your intellectual side to shut up. Woo! Nintendo r0xx0rs my b0x0rs!

Even though this is a stupid post, I'm gonna reply to it anyway. Instead of thinking of it like business, think of it like Football (either version), you root for your team, you don't get anything out of it, you even pay the team to watch the game, you follow them.

Why is following a football team (which is basically a company anyway) any less ludicrous then following a videogame company? it's only an extension of what the human race has been doing for 2000 years anyway.

NPD is our version of "the big match" and MC is our version of "the weekly game".

 

[Threi]

Right. As I pointed out a page or two ago, the Wii is doing what Nintendo wants it to do - carve out a new market. They have contended that they are the "new-generation" and are not competing with the PS3 or X360. And this is what is happening. So, isn't it fair to say that the Wii's success is not directly the cause of the PS3's or X360's lower sales?

If i recall correctly barely anyone is saying that - the Wii isnt killing the PS3 and 360, Sony and MS are killing the PS3 and 360.

Why is it Nintendo's problem if Sony was stupid enough to price the PS3 @ $600?