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[AwRy108]

Some people insist "year of the ps3" referred to content.

Some people insist "year of the ps3" referred to sales-related conquests.

I doubt they'll ever agree

As a PS3 owner, I'm happier with the former. And I'm sure the millions who're enjoying those games agree - even if there aren't further millions on top also enjoying those games.

PS3 needn't worry about going under appreciated. It's not like every system must have the attention of everyone in the market. PS3 has 'enough' attention, I think, for its content to be appreciated.

Excellent point.

 

[DMeisterJ]

I couldn't be arsed flipping through the last fifteen pages...

Did we get LBP numbers?

 

[The Faceless Master]

I couldn't be arsed flipping through the last fifteen pages...

Did we get LBP numbers?

because you said 15 pages and not 30, i'll answer.

no.

 

[DMeisterJ]

because you said 15 pages and not 30, i'll answer.

no.

I actually said fifteen because I was already on page sixteen when I went to sleep last night. I do have my pages set to fifty.

But thanks!

 

[adamma666]

I skimmed through the first couple of pages and found nothing: are there some more numbers hidden in this thread than in the op?

 

[Hammer24]

USA does not equal the entire populous.

Where did I say this?
NPD reports US sales, and my personal analysis tackles exactly that.

 

[Parl]

HD gaming family wins!

The moving of the goalposts has resulted in two HD consoles being duct taped together.

 

[Britprog]

I skimmed through the first couple of pages and found nothing: are there some more numbers hidden in this thread than in the op?

How about press release's from Sony???

Will I get dizzy reading it?:lol

 

[u_neek]

Did we get any Persona 4 numbers?

 

[Parl]

I was kidding, that is gameplay from the alpha version and it's just clearly a bug which common in every early stage of any game, no need to get defensive here...

I wasn't referring to you, and additionally I was being jokingly offensive rather than defensive. I'm referring to the dislike of NPD threads within the official thread of what's coincidently a PS3 exclusive game. It'd be odd to see shrunken animated gifs of the best looking 360 or Wii games for the same reason, for instance.

 

[farnham]

He's arguably right.

They just went bye-bye to a whole new market.

Lots of folks have said 'bye bye' to Nintendo this generation :| Lots have said 'hello!' too.

I'm still not totally sure why people said that because of the controller, however.

actually thats not true

the so called hardcore nintendo franchises

like mario galaxy, zelda TP, Metroid Prime 3, Fire Emblem, Mario Kart, Smash Etc

all sold much better on the wii then on the GC

of course there are some people that said bye bye to nintendo because of some reason.. but hey thats true with every console. .many people left sony this gen because of price.. many left MS because of the RRoD problem.. its not like those people that left nintendo actually are any measurable audience.. its just a few disgruntled fans.. or maybe people that never would have bought anything nintendo related in the first place

 

[flipping_heck]

Might have missed it but what's ToS2's LTD?

 

[truly101]

I'm confused, its a bigger deal that the PS3 sold about 60K less in December 08 versus December 07, but the fact that the system sold almost 1 million more in all of 08 than all of 07 is irrelevant? I'm also not sure how bad a 60K decrease is in light of how bad November was for the PS3. Wasn't that like 200K decrease from 07?

 

[Psychotext]

I'm confused, its a bigger deal that the PS3 sold about 60K less in December 08 versus December 07, but the fact that the system sold almost 1 million more in all of 08 than all of 07 is irrelevant?

Depends on how you look at it. The PS3 sales in 2007 were absolutely horrific.

 

[truly101]

Depends on how you look at it. The PS3 sales in 2007 were absolutely horrific.

The software lineup was pretty shitty back then too. I still think Sony needs to do whatever it can to get that system up to 10 million sold US as soon as possible. Killzone 2 may help but after fiscal year 08 ends (March) you're looking at some lean sales if there are no big games coming out for months and the economy is still lagging. Honestly, I would cut the price to 250 and release a 2 game bundle at 350 (maybe MS"PR and LBP since they're huge bombs by GAF standards). GOW3 doesn't come out this year does it?

 

[The Faceless Master]

I'm confused, its a bigger deal that the PS3 sold about 60K less in December 08 versus December 07, but the fact that the system sold almost 1 million more in all of 08 than all of 07 is irrelevant? I'm also not sure how bad a 60K decrease is in light of how bad November was for the PS3. Wasn't that like 200K decrease from 07?

it's because sales are going down in recent months, while sales are going up on other consoles. while the annual sales news is good, the current sales trend is shaping up to be bad.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The software lineup was pretty shitty back then too. I still think Sony needs to do whatever it can to get that system up to 10 million sold US as soon as possible.

What's PS3 LTD at now?

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Do we really have to spin for Sony how great it is they made more money on it then in 07?PS3 is basically running on pace with Gamecube this time in its life span. Sony will stay with it longer probably. With two successfull consoles ahead of it, it's not a sales success.

None of the good exclusives sale and I think you have to conclude a lot of people use it as blu ray player and play Wii or 360. Just too many good games tanking on PS3. It's getting crazy!

 

[truly101]

What's PS3 LTD at now?

about 6.8 I think, someone posted it around pg 5.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

What's PS3 LTD at now?

6,789,000

 

[xbhaskarx]

Lining stuff up at the 26-month mark:

Wii (Dec 2008): 17.54m
GBA (July 2003): 14.71m
Playstation 2 (Nov 2002): 12.99m
Nintendo DS (Dec 2006): 9.13m
Xbox 360 (Dec 2007): 9.12m
Xbox (Dec 2003): 7.68m
PSP (April 2007): 7.41m
PS3 (Dec 2008): 6.79m
Gamecube (Dec 2003): 6.73m

Wii = PS2 + 35.03%
Xbox 360 = Xbox + 18.75%
PS3 = GCN + 0.89%

Total Wii+360+PS3 = 33.45M
Total PS2+Xbox+GCN = 27.4

This gen = last gen + 22.08%

Fascinating numbers.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Fascinating numbers.

Is that supposed to say "Xbox 360 (Nov 2005)"?

If not, I don't understand that chart.

 

[Parl]

Is that supposed to say "Xbox 360 (Nov 2005)"?

If not, I don't understand that chart.

The dates in brackets are the end of the 26th month after release.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The dates in brackets are the end of the 26th month after release.

Ohhhh duh. It says it right there.

 

[dancmc]

Fascinating numbers.

Yeah....who'd have thought that X360 ~ DS at the same point in their lifetime. But if I remember, DS started slowly correct?

 

[Shig]

I'm confused, its a bigger deal that the PS3 sold about 60K less in December 08 versus December 07, but the fact that the system sold almost 1 million more in all of 08 than all of 07 is irrelevant?

Only a 1 million increase year-on-year for a recent console is honestly pretty shitty growth. There's usually a much more signifigant bump as prices lower and consumers shift away from the previous gen.

 

[Arpharmd B]

I'm confused, its a bigger deal that the PS3 sold about 60K less in December 08 versus December 07, but the fact that the system sold almost 1 million more in all of 08 than all of 07 is irrelevant? I'm also not sure how bad a 60K decrease is in light of how bad November was for the PS3. Wasn't that like 200K decrease from 07?

I think what you can take away from it all in a sales point of view...

MS was way late to drop 360 price, and missed big opportunities with GTA and the like. They could have done much better IMO had they dropped sooner.

Sony needed a pricedrop going into the fall of about 50$ but was late on that, and paid for it over the holiday. They could have done much better IMO had they dropped before holiday.

At the end of the day, looking at 2008 sales as a whole, MS helped solidify thier second place, Sony fell further behind and is in a poor position now to where they almost have to drop just to catch up to month-to-month 360 sales.

Wii just dominated as usual.

IMO the damage is done. PS3 is what it is. They are still going to get most/all of the multiplat games, but because of it's position they will lose a defacto exclusive here and there (Left 4 Dead) or continue to get some year late ports (Vesperia? Star Ocean?), and few if any 3rd party exclusives... but it's been like that, nothing has changed.

I think Sony will be satisfied to start making profit on the console and we may see a 50 drop if sales continue to decline.

 

[Iksenpets]

I'm confused, its a bigger deal that the PS3 sold about 60K less in December 08 versus December 07, but the fact that the system sold almost 1 million more in all of 08 than all of 07 is irrelevant? I'm also not sure how bad a 60K decrease is in light of how bad November was for the PS3. Wasn't that like 200K decrease from 07?

That's relevant, it's just that this dip in the holidays has to make you wonder whether the PS3's surge in the first half of the year was just an anomaly and not a trend. Back then it seemed like PS3 could start consistently outselling 360. Now, not so much.

 

[gofreak]

actually thats not true

the so called hardcore nintendo franchises

like mario galaxy, zelda TP, Metroid Prime 3, Fire Emblem, Mario Kart, Smash Etc

all sold much better on the wii then on the GC

How much of that is the new people saying hello vs the same old same old, though.. obviously there has been a halo effect like I said earlier.

Obviously a lot of Nintendo fans have stuck by them. Even some of the ones moaning, like me, have still bought the games (or some of them). Like I say though, just because we add +1 to the sales figures doesn't mean we're necessarily overjoyed by the ride thusfar.

I agree it would be wrong to assume that most of the 'Nintendo hardcore' have abandoned them just because the 'hardcore' HD systems are doing well enough though..those two audiences may not overlap very much.

Only a 1 million increase year-on-year for a recent console is honestly pretty shitty growth. There's usually a much more signifigant bump as prices lower and consumers shift away from the previous gen.

Analogy with recent systems falls apart given the pricing. The prices are 'lower' than (most of) 2007, but they're still high! I also think a lot of people expected Sony to go below 399 in 2008..but they didn't..the console was the same price for the holidays 08 as the holidays 07, and that's reflected in the relatively flat sales.

I think few people basically expected Sony to sit out the holidays like did (i.e. not price-cut at all). Up until then (i.e. around September), they were on track to have a much much stronger year than they ended up having, one that was as relatively stronger in the holidays as it was in the first 2-3 quarters. They basically fumbled the ball in the last quarter..their earlier performance in the year still got them a net gain over 2007, but not nearly as much as it could have been if they'd cut price for the holidays.

IMO the damage is done. PS3 is what it is. They are still going to get most/all of the multiplat games, but because of it's position they will lose a defacto exclusive here and there (Left 4 Dead) or continue to get some year late ports (Vesperia? Star Ocean?), and few if any 3rd party exclusives... but it's been like that, nothing has changed.

It's been like that for a long time though..even PS2 missed out on games that were 'defacto' exclusives for technical/ease-of-porting reasons, far more than PS3 is, actually. Xbox got a lot more 'freebie' exclusives from the PC than 360 is now. Beyond that, looking at third party exclusives, asides from a couple of high profile JRPG names, I don't see much difference in 360's attraction of those exclusives compared to PS3's..both are getting very few.

 

[farnham]

How much of that is the new people saying hello vs the same old same old, though.. obviously there has been a halo effect like I said earlier.

Obviously a lot of Nintendo fans have stuck by them. Even some of the ones moaning, like me, have still bought the games (or some of them). Like I say though, just because we add +1 to the sales figures doesn't mean we're necessarily overjoyed by the ride thusfar.

I agree it would be wrong to assume that most of the 'Nintendo hardcore' have abandoned them just because the 'hardcore' HD systems are doing well enough though..those two audiences may not overlap very much.

.

trust me.. the easiest thing for nintendo to do is to please its fans

nintendo fans overjoiced when nintendo throwed them a bone once in a while on the GC or on the N64

 

[Yazus]

PS3 726K

DS 3.04M

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

It's been like that for a long time though..even PS2 missed out on games that were 'defacto' exclusives for technical/ease-of-porting reasons, far more than PS3 is, actually. Xbox got a lot more 'freebie' exclusives from the PC than 360 is now. Beyond that, looking at third party exclusives, asides from a couple of high profile JRPG names, I don't see much difference in 360's attraction of those exclusives compared to PS3's..both are getting very few.

But wait, did those defacto Xbox exclusives sell anywhere near an exclusive PS2 game? That same situation may be repeating on paper, but when one of those "defacto" exclusives like Left4Dead is outselling real life 1st party exclusives for the PS3 to such a high degree, doesn't that illustrate a large difference in these scenarios?

 

[Ptaaty]

The 360 is basically done selling to the core audience. That is why the price drop and packins are needed to keep up sales.

More price drops, or some drastic perception to casuals will be needed to sustain. Another way would be a slim/slot drive quiet model to encourage rebuys.

The numbers the PS2 got were because it was something the core bought, it was the casual game console, there was a lot of rebuys with the slim.

The Wii is sucking up huge number of the casual only crowd that would be looking at a 360 now, those who bought a PS2 previously as a "something to have" or "for the kids".

The PS3 has not quite gotten to all the core gamers yet due to price. However, as price drops occur and if BD keeps some semblance of viability, the PS3 should still be able to sell at a decent rate.

 

[wrowa]

Seeing how the DS managed to double its November numbers in December, I start wondering how much Wii could have sold, if it wasn't supply constrained. Were even 4 million units possible? Well, we'll probably never know.

And wtf @ DS. 3 million units sold but only one game in the top 10? I hope people are just in love with its backlog -- and not with cheap flash carts.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Honestly, as much as I am a big PS3 fan (though I do love all the consoles), I wouldn't care whatever fate Sony receives in the future. That's a big "if".

 

[Yazus]

Seeing how the DS managed to double its November numbers in December, I start wondering how much Wii could have sold, if it wasn't supply constrained. Were even 4 million units possible? Well, we'll probably never know.

And wtf @ DS. 3 million units sold but only one game in the top 10? I hope people are just in love with its backlog -- and not with cheap flash carts.

I strongly doubt it but whatever

 

[ZeoVGM]

:lol :lol @ that Wii thread.

In all honesty, can the PS3 even survive at this point. I can't imagine sales going up in 2009 and they CAN'T go down. They just can't. That would be very bad.

With 360 now always being less expensive than PS3, looking like the better console in many consumer's eyes, and the Wii crushing everyone. With PS3 doing poorly in Japan and 360 even selling better now in Europe and the console just bleeding money.

I really have a hard time seeing this thing continue as a viable platform after 2009. :\

 

[ZeoVGM]

And wtf @ DS. 3 million units sold but only one game in the top 10? I hope people are just in love with its backlog -- and not with cheap flash carts.

There's obviously a group of flash cart people, but most people with a DS don't even know that's possible.

 

[gofreak]

But wait, did those defacto Xbox exclusives sell anywhere near an exclusive PS2 game? That same situation may be repeating on paper, but when one of those "defacto" exclusives like Left4Dead is outselling real life 1st party exclusives for the PS3 to such a high degree, doesn't that illustrate a large difference in these scenarios?

Well..I'm sure some of those sold as well as some PS2 exclusives (there were a lot of those that hardly set the world on fire sales-wise)...but sure, what you say illustrates a large difference in market positions now.

But we were talking about game availability..he was saying that 'because of its position' there'd be the odd 360 exclusive or 'defacto' exclusive..and I was just responding by saying that that's nothing new, and it works vice versa too.. Not so much wrt. 'PC' defacto exclusives, but on that front, Sony's gained a lot of ground since the PS2 which was in an even worse position with regard to PC ports despite its market position. All I or we were talking about was relative game availability..the sales of these different types of exclusives wasn't something under consideration I don't think.

 

[Threi]

PS3 needn't worry about going under appreciated. It's not like every system must have the attention of everyone in the market. PS3 has 'enough' attention, I think, for its content to be appreciated.

Exactly dude. I feel the same way about the Wii. There are many good games that "hardcore" guys have no idea even exist, or they gloss over it. But why does the console need their approval? The games still exist don't they?

Console Warz should be taken at face value for laughs only. The truth is if you enjoy the system and it's games who the fuck are anyone to tell you otherwise?

 

[Prine]

This might be the longest generation in gaming. 2 companies doing well, and the 3rd is about to join them.

 

[Dragon]

Console Warz should be taken at face value for laughs only. The truth is if you enjoy the system and it's games who the fuck are anyone to tell you otherwise?

Yeah I'd agree with you there, but I'd just worry that if most of my gaming was down on a certain console that isn't selling, that the games would dry up, besides its 1st party.

That's where the downloadable games offer a niche that was previously absent. At least for me.

 

[Arpharmd B]

But wait, did those defacto Xbox exclusives sell anywhere near an exclusive PS2 game? That same situation may be repeating on paper, but when one of those "defacto" exclusives like Left4Dead is outselling real life 1st party exclusives for the PS3 to such a high degree, doesn't that illustrate a large difference in these scenarios?

Theres a giant difference in scenarios.

The bottom line I think that, Sony could drop the price and go nuts trying to get "second place" but the much smarter play for them is to focus on profitability (especially given the state of their company). What I'm trying to say in my last post is that even if they improve their sales to match 360, the damage is already done; in that 360 has a much bigger base that sells more software (3 to 1 COD sales speaks volumes) and this is going to continue to see developers treat PS3 as an afterthought, if at all.

It's PS2 - Xbox situation reversed to an extent, as far as some exclusives go (JRPG, Namco-Bandai stuff, small japanese games shooters, Guilty Gear, low budget shit), except the Xbox still gets a PC defacto here and there (left 4 dead) less often than OG Xbox did.

Everything is set in stone at this point. I mean we are 3 years into the gen already.

 

[gofreak]

I really have a hard time seeing this thing continue as a viable platform after 2009. :\

Viable for...whom?

Third parties, you mean?

As long as cost of PS3 version/port < sales on PS3 userbase, it'll remain viable.

It doesn't have to set the world on fire with sales to do that.

Currently, for what ought to be a decreasing premium (I think Ubisoft said 10-20% of original dev cost, and falling?), a PS3 port gives a publisher access to ~40% of HD machines out there, or 70% 'extra' machines than the 360 alone.

That math works.. as long as PS3 keeps selling 'enough', it'll continue to work.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Well..I'm sure some of those sold as well as some PS2 exclusives (there were a lot of those that hardly set the world on fire sales-wise)...but sure, what you say illustrates a large difference in market positions now.

But we were talking about game availability..he was saying that 'because of its position' there'd be the odd 360 exclusive or 'defacto' exclusive..and I was just responding by saying that that's nothing new, and it works vice versa too.. Not so much wrt. 'PC' defacto exclusives, but on that front, Sony's gained a lot of ground since the PS2 which was in an even worse position with regard to PC ports despite its market position. All I or we were talking about was relative game availability..the sales of these different types of exclusives wasn't something under consideration I don't think.

But in the ways that the market is different also have created different kinds of advantages and disadvantages to market position. Fallout 3 is available on the 360 and the PS3 but the PS3 version will be 2/3rds the platform than the 360 one after the March content is released. Whole new Liberty City storylines won't be available to PS3 users. So, while games will be available for the platform, it's market position has put it in a new kind of availability disadvantage. Obviously no one's going to buy a console for DLC, but when GTAIV, Fallout 3, Tomb Raider Underworld, when all these games have "definitive versions" on the 360, that sort of brand identity starts to add up.

 

[gofreak]

Benjie, you're bringing up different points entirely to those I was responding to. Either I've missed Arpharmd B's point, or you have, but I think bringing up the emergence of 'strategic' exclusive DLC only supports the point that the third party field has levelled to a large degree on both ends.

Exclusive DLC...look..in the case of GTAIV certainly, and I think Fallout 3 also, that had nothing to do with market positions..

Exclusive DLC is also a minority issue..in terms of 'game availability' on different platforms, the vast majority of third party dlc is still multiplatform. Striving for DLC exclusivity is the almost embarassingly desperate last resort of platform holders running out of options to make the full games themselves exclusive.

 

[le.phat]

:lol :lol @ that Wii thread.

In all honesty, can the PS3 even survive at this point. I can't imagine sales going up in 2009 and they CAN'T go down. They just can't. That would be very bad.

With 360 now always being less expensive than PS3, looking like the better console in many consumer's eyes, and the Wii crushing everyone. With PS3 doing poorly in Japan and 360 even selling better now in Europe and the console just bleeding money.

I really have a hard time seeing this thing continue as a viable platform after 2009. :\

the ps3's YTD increased by a healthy amount over 2008 so fortunately ps3's future is not nearly as bleak as you'd like it to be. 360's excellenty timed pricedrop into the right price range obviously stole almost all of ps3's holidays limelight. That said the console is still performing well on a global scale and still expanding its market on a year to year scale, unlike the 360.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Benjie, you're bringing up different points entirely to those I was responding to.

Exclusive DLC...look..in the case of GTAIV certainly, and I think Fallout 3 also, that had nothing to do with market positions..

Exclusive DLC is also a minority issue..in terms of 'game availability' on different platforms, the vast majority of third party dlc is still multiplatform. Striving for DLC exclusivity is the almost embarassingly desperate last resort of platform holders running out of options to make the full games themselves exclusive.

Oh I know. I just thought it was an interesting conversation to have, re: the evolution of "availability" with the onset of DLC.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

The 360 is basically done selling to the core audience. That is why the price drop and packins are needed to keep up sales.

More price drops, or some drastic perception to casuals will be needed to sustain. Another way would be a slim/slot drive quiet model to encourage rebuys.

I'll agree with that, probably one reason why they've saturated the airwaves over in the UK with adverts for Lips and You're In The Movies. They need to start planting the ides that they are more than just a shooter box. Those titles may not have been a sales success but if they start to create awareness that there is more to the 360 than 'Gears of Halo' then that is a step in the right direction.

But the 360s future success is going to start relying a lot more on the casual crowd.

 

[radjago]

There's obviously a group of flash cart people, but most people with a DS don't even know that's possible.

True, but when was the last time you saw a DS game in the top 10? I don't believe it's as prevalent as it is with PSP, but I've noticed more DS flash carts around than I ever had with GBA.