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NPD Sales Results for December 2009
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Yes, the backlash due to Origins and Homecoming being developed by small Western teams was significant and it probably is one of the reasons why the downward sales spiral of the franchise (that started after SH2) got even worse.Relaxed Muscle said:
While enthusiast gamers and gaming press don't constitute a relevant part of the gaming market in sheer numbers, the word of mouth they generate does often have a very important influence in videogame sales.
I believe the fact most third party Wii games are downplayed and mocked by enthusiast gamers and especially disgruntled Wii owners (!!!) for being piss-poor efforts compared to HD games, combined to the lack of marketing from third parties unsure about the purpose of investing money to advertise them and the generally mixed reviews they get, does often end up worsening the situation.
Well, while it's true they have their loyal fans it's also true that even them (and not just the "broader core") go where good games are, or else they wouldn't have sold progressively less consoles with each generation, and their number isn't remotely as high as the numbers they're getting thanks to the expanded audience AND the "hardcore" gamers that initially supported the platform and ended up buying another console to play the games they wanted and never came out for the Wii (I can't believe how everyone is ignoring the biggest difference this generation has shown compared to the previous ones: for the first time in gaming history, multiple platform ownership HAS become relevant because of the fragmentation of the software market forcing people to buy more than one console to get the games they want).gofreak said:But there's not much risk here. They don't have much to lose at all vs where they were in the N64/GCN days.
The newbies can come and go, but they can keep their loyal bitches on a chain forever. I count myself among themThey won't 'lose' those folks even if the house comes tumbling down. No matter how neglected 'we' might feel, 'we' will always line up for Nintendo hardware for Mario & Zelda. We may go elsewhere between times, but we'll always be there for their 'traditional' games.
They know that. They know they can take their eye off us and we won't go anywhere. They care about us to the extent that, yes - we are their 'bad-times security', always there to help at least keep them ticking over, but they're by no means worried about losing us. And we're not a growth opportunity for them. And they don't need us, nor 'broader' core gamers to sustain massive growth - quite clearly now.
So no...I don't think they really care about third parties catering to us on their platform. They know their own stuff is enough to keep a certain guaranteed minimum of support from 'core Nintendo fans' going into the future. The 'broader core' aren't so loyal anyway either - why spend more money on this group if you can spend less catering to others and more of them? Their new market is far more satisfying - cheaper to dev for, and seemingly boundless in scope - and only a little less loyal than 'regular core' gamers. 'Regular core' are an inefficient target next to their new audience, and carry no greater guarantees about future support if the newbs abandon them.
I really can't believe, considering how wide the red ocean of "hardcore" gamers is, that Nintendo wouldn't want to keep their hands over a slice of that pie together with the other one they found in the blue ocean opened up by the Wii and they're currently eating (pretty much) alone: while the latter pie may be much bigger, once it's gone they would starve to death if they don't have another somewhere (yeah, I apologize for the dumb metaphor).
BowieZ said:How old is this MW-loving child of yours? :/
And nice anecdotal contribution btw
He's nine, I know a little young for the game but we talked about the objectionable stuff and I laid down rules. He knows its not real and some blood and language is far from a big thing I've got to worry about, its the you aren't cool anymore when hes 13 and all that crap coming that I worry about haha.
People at work see the exact same thing when they buy there kid a Wii and they get bored with it (even with NSMBWII) and then te parents have buyers remorse. Not that its not a good system or inferior I just think it doesnt keep the kids wanting to come back for more.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Cruzader said:
How many games break 900K on one platform in 1st month?
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
botticus said:
this question is also relevant to me. i find SILENT HILL games pretty atrocious to actually play.
Relaxed Muscle said:
What did people expect to happen with the Silent Hill game? Seriously? They tried to sell that game on other platforms that have a big "core" market and failed. Did people think it was actually going to top the charts on the Wii? I could understand if we're talking about a game like Call of Duty, but we're talking about a series that has jumped from one platform to another and failed. The excuse that "it's on the Wii" doesn't work, because it's not doing well on any platform. Are people going to say that they should have released it on the 360 now? Didn't they try that already?
To Botticus and Beelzebozo: watch the Giant Bomb Quick Look.
That said, I believe the PS2 version won't sadly be that good: I hear the game and the puzzles are pretty much built around Wii controls, so unless they change a lot of stuff I'm afraid it may end up being awkward or even uninteresting with regular controls.
Yeah, I can understand not wanting to shell out money to buy another system for one (or a few) games. I always end up doing it, but it feels unnecessary and a waste of money I'd happily avoid if I could play most of the games I want on a single system.hednik4am said:
That said, I believe the PS2 version won't sadly be that good: I hear the game and the puzzles are pretty much built around Wii controls, so unless they change a lot of stuff I'm afraid it may end up being awkward or even uninteresting with regular controls.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Jocchan said:
consider it done.
ShockingAlberto said:
It's nice to see someone arguing the point so eloquently. Thank you.
radioheadrule83 said:
You too. It's really difficult to watch the industry cannibalize itself the way it's doing; completely ignoring the largest userbase of the generation, and probably very soon the largest of any generation. I really continue to believe that publishers/developers hate the Wii and are looking for any excuse they can do get away from it. It doesn't make any sense to me, but how else can it be explained?
Leondexter said:
And another excellent analysis, kudos.
Fredescu said:
That's because Super Paper Mario wasn't up to the standards of traditional Mario titles, much less the Paper Mario series.
selig said:
As I have said before, it would be a bad move for Nintendo to completely rest on it's laurels for the rest of this generation. 3 mil in December 09 doe not guarantee hot sales in July or February 2011. And with Miyamoto throwing out all kinds of quotes about Pikmin being better suited in HD and Nintendo keeping up with the changing technologies I can see it happening in 2011. With Zelda being the Marquee title to prove it's worth. Besides, I think Nintendo would not want the NATAL and Wand launches to affect them by making Wii look dated (more than it already is).
Norse
Member
otake said:
To play games! duh....outside of playing blu ray movies, the 360 does everything a ps3 does at a lower price. Including netflix, and can also be a media center extender.
With the ability to stream movies from one's pc, storage devices, xbox live, and netflix, why do you still buy movies? Blu ray or dvds seem to be the more questionable purchase these days....IMO
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Gwanatu T said:
there are some myopic people that would say standards and quality are irrelevant to selling mario games.
Cruzader said:
Sony first party titles have not been able to effectively tap into the militaristic or superman fantasies of the 18-35 year old male gamer.
ok, that's oversimplifying, but it's all I got for R&C and Uncharted sales. KZ2 and Resistance would seem aimed directly at that market yet audiences haven't really gravitated to them on the same level as MW
AnimeTheme said:
Not this crap again. Jesus. Its going to be the #2 selling console game this gen in Japan for a long time, it has almost doubled the PS2 versions sales and no doubt makes Capcom a lot of money from the online fees.
When MH Tri was announced there was literally no one on this board, smart sales ager or not, that said it would hit a million units on the Wii.
Accidentus
Neo Member
Doesn't everyone who wants a Wii already own one? It's crazy to me it's still selling this well.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Accidentus said:
i had an extra tv in my basement so i bought another wii to hook up to it.
also, one of the legs on my dinner table was uneven, and the price drop had just went through. . .
I believe that if Nintendo released Super Paper Mario 2 it would sell much, much less than the first Super Paper Mario, because a significant number of people could have been misled into thinking it was a platformer.beelzebozo said:
A bit like Darkside Chronicles bombing shows that a large chunk of the people who bought Umbrella Chronicles was either expecting a different game, or satisfied with it and unwilling to shell more money for a sequel they don't feel any need for.
Bizzyb said:
Vs what 3rd party companies resting on their laurels. That takes balls to say nintendo is resting on it's laurels this generation thanks for the laugh. Keep wishing with the rest of the tech types that nintendo will magically slow down for the reasons you say they will.
hednik4am said:
I see this sometimes, too...but I think it's about wanting what other people have and not "feeling" like a kid. A friend of mine was telling me this very thing the other day, saying that the Wii just doesn't fit his gaming lifestyle even though he tries to get into it. He likes the "cool" things...blowing things up, shooting things with guns, slashing things with swords and such. Just not too many of those games on the Wii, and I think that's where third parties are really dropping the ball. The Wii is just a game system it can't determine what software is developed, the developers/publishers really made it this way.
gofreak said:
Very much agreed. I used an analogy some time ago: let's say I'm a professional Football player. As such, it should be absolutely fair to say that I am good at sports. Now, let's say that Football suddenly falls entirely out of fashion, and I'm forced to quit playing sports or play Basketball. Does anyone seriously think I can simply wake up one day and be incredible at Basketball? I'm good at sports, it should be easy! And yet, despite both careers falling under the monicker of "sport," and despite everyone agreeing that I'm very good at sports, I'm not actually suited to compete in Basketball at the highest levels. It requires slightly different physical characteristics (i.e. taller) and a different skill set that I need to cultivate over years of play.
Similarly, it should be fairly apparent by now that the Wii has a slightly different audience.They still fall under the category of "game," but it's different enough that a large company that's supposed to be "good at making games" may not actually be very good in this case, because it requires a different skill set.
Nintendo faithful don't like to hear this, because it sounds like I'm suggesting that the major third parties focus on the PS3/360 -- and I am, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. It's what they're good at, so stick with it. However, HD faithful don't seem to like the suggestion that these companies have failed on the Wii because they aren't skilled enough, because it implies it's a failing of the companies, rather than of the Wii system. And it is a failling of these companies, but it's a totally understandable one. It's like saying, "You are not highly skilled at everything" as a character flaw. Of course companies are going to be stronger at certain skills and weaker at others. Because the "traditional" gamer market has been gradually evolving for 30 years, virtually every major 3rd party in existance built their empires by honing just this set of skills.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
God. Frickin. Damnit! I emerge blinking from my obsessive foray into the Star Trek open beta only to realize that I have missed one of the most epic NPD threads of all time.
Oh, well, far to late, but still
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol @Wii
Oh, well, far to late, but still
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol @Wii
Relaxed Muscle
Member
EDarkness said:
This game feel like a reboot, a new look of the series, it keep a good amount of traits form the saga, but it added his fair share of new ideas and fresh blood, I was expecting that they good previews, reviews and the fact it has nice production values and it definetly looks like a good effort something that Wii owners usually demand in their core games, would have helped this game had decent numbers, I'm not talking about 500k copies or something along the lines, but less than 50k is very slow, and I hardly think Konami is happy with those numbers.
SH is pretty much dead now, a shame, and probably SM would have done the same in other platforms, but as I said, it underperformed in Wii, that's a fact that should not be dismissed.
BowieZ said:
I was talking from the "hardcore games" point of view, but you think 3rd parties should fight head to head with Nintendo? and what amount of marketing you think they would need to be able to compete with Nintendo, that already puts a lot of money already? 20$m? 30$m? and what about brand recognition? Wii sells with a Nintendo game on it, people gets the first taste of the console with a Nintendo game, and most of the other games people usually buy alog the wii are Nintendo games (as Mario Kart Wii and Wii play sales shows), and to make a great game you need your most talented people, time and more resources, more polishing so that means more cost than your normal Wii game, add all those factors and think, what would be fail and what a success and it will be worth the effort?
Probably Nintendo is seen as a some kind of huge beast that you could barely raise your hand against him, without getting hurt.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Plenty of profits to be made on Wii for 3rd parties. First, they need to cater to the largest demographic on the platform instead of making games only an otaku could love and secondly places like GAF need to stop expecting 3rd party games on Wii to sell as well as solidly-established, decades-old Nintendo franchises.BowieZ said:
Eh, I think 3rd parties are making plenty of money on Wii. You won't be able to tell that by just looking at the top 10 every month, though.
1-D_FTW said:
My point was that NMH is a fucking fun game but it's not exactly top quality. I think core gamers buy AAA games to a large degree and they know what they're looking at. You can't expect to tell them a Suda game is AAA and just have them say, "Duh, ok where do I send my money?!" as I read firestorm to be implying.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
dark10x said:
this is how i feel about it as well. i have a wii and a 360, and between the two, it's all i can handle. on wii, i have the obviously fantastic nintendo software, and the really groundbreaking (imo) fitness software that i get use from every day since its release. the major third parties put nearly everything i find worth playing on 360, and i play it there. if capcom can't figure out how to make a game for wii that will be appealing and sell to a large audience, why should i care that they do nothing at all? it's a shame to not see them not smart enough to take good advantage of the wii's specific strengths while downplaying its weaknesses in such a way that's viable to the market, but if they're not willing to drop the change into making something worthwhile, at least as far as the wii goes i can't help but say fuck 'em. i'll buy the games on 360 and be pleased as a peach.
iamaustrian
Member
hednik4am said:
oh come on, are you crazy or what? NINE?(regarding that you let him play MW)
I really can't believe that a nine year old kid says:"Wii is boring, let me play some MW on the PS3". I know dozens of parents with Wii-PS3/xbox360 consoles combination myself and for pretty much all their kids the Wii is the console of choice all the time. especially when they are that young.
Opiate said:
I agree with your post.
I'm curious, how do you think these companies will make huge profits again? They don't like to take risks because of the big budgets that are used. So I'm really curious how they are going to get out of this mess without significantly changing their ways. I'd honestly like to hear your thoughts on this subject.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
schuelma said:
Is any reason, why the PSP game success, that definetly made the franchise grewth in a very significant manner, surpassing greatly the sales of the PS2 games, aren't take into account when talking about Tri performance and always is compared with the PS2 games? I know one is a console game and the other is a portable game and all, but I refuse to believe that the franchise as a whole was as important and big when the PS2 games were released as when it was released on the Wii.
Sorry for the OT, (this is a NPD thread) but it always bothered me since I never understood it...
LegendofJoe
Member
Cruzader said:
That's pretty easy. For many the Ps3 is primarily a blu-ray player, not a game console.
Well, judging by the reviews and general user impressions, I don't think many people would argue that the quality isn't there, so I think we can rule that out as an issue. This seems to leave us with either a problem in Sony's marketing for their titles (either quantity and/or quality) or that they're not making the right games for the PS3 demographic, even if they're of excellent quality. It could of course vary from title to title or be a combination of the issues as well.Cruzader said:
LegendofJoe said:
no, that's not it since third party AAA games sell at the same ratio as the 360 versions.
it's something about the current Sony 1st party games themselves that have left the mass market cold (relative to MW, AC2, GTA IV, anyway).
I'm sure God Of War III and GT5 will do great, though.
gamergirly
Member
Just saw the numbers for the first time and started laughing :lol
Nintendo Wii caked everything else, even the DS
Nintendo Wii caked everything else, even the DS
iamaustrian
Member
to all you guys talking about how 3rd parties should give up on the Wii because they sell so less:
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about HD software sales? there are zillions of HD games(with budgets often 10-20 times as much as a wii game budget) which bomb horribly but noone seems to care(sometimes not even the developers) but if their Wii game fails everyone goes nuts about it.
How many game devs studios had to close down this gen because of failed HD games?
3rd parties make enough money on the Wii(especialy for the mostly ridiculous low budget they have for Wii games) if they do it right. Just because their game is not in the top 10 doesn't mean they lose tons of cash.
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about HD software sales? there are zillions of HD games(with budgets often 10-20 times as much as a wii game budget) which bomb horribly but noone seems to care(sometimes not even the developers) but if their Wii game fails everyone goes nuts about it.
How many game devs studios had to close down this gen because of failed HD games?
3rd parties make enough money on the Wii(especialy for the mostly ridiculous low budget they have for Wii games) if they do it right. Just because their game is not in the top 10 doesn't mean they lose tons of cash.
Haunted
Member
Well, my post was in response to the hypothetical question of what Nintendo would need to do to improve third party support for their console.dark10x said:
It's why I said the premise of that hypothetical is the million dollar question - do they want to change the situation or are they happy as is?
Yes, for now and for a few years.dark10x said:
But let's assume they can't manage to come up with ideas as compelling as Wii Sports or Wii Fit, once motion controls get old and everyone has them, on a regular basis to keep this audience interested. Where would this leave them?
That's why I said they should be trying to get third parties on board in the long run (not now on the Wii, it's too late for that and the market for the games they make is largely compromised), because focusing on their current success - even though it may last for some more years, I'm of course not calling it a fad - would be pretty short-sighted.
I agree, except I think the situation you're describing is the current one and not the one we were presented with in 2006 and 2007.Opiate said:
Consoles by themselves are just made of plastic and metal, they don't have inherently the ability to attract one chunk of the gaming population instead of the other (well, they actually do but to a certain extent). What really defines an audience is the software library, especially in its early stages because everything that comes next is a consequence of that.
Had third parties released games built around the strengths of the system and Wii SKUs for their multiplatform titles developed with comparable effort as their HD counterparts from the very beginning, we would be discussing a very different situation (better or worse I can't tell, but surely different).
Right now focusing on the Wii for their traditional games would be, of course, useless and I agree they should focus on what they do better and develop for PS3, 360 and PC.