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[iamaustrian]

I think Nintendo should remake this commercial. It would fit perfectly nowadays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQO2VtV1PNg



another thing: that "gamers buy ps3/xbox360; people buy Wii" arguement has to be the dumbest line I have ever read.
I'm a gamer and I play Wii. If my grandma buys a Wii and plays it, she's a gamer too. It doesn't fucking matter what she plays or for how long she plays. She is gaming after all, which makes her a gamer. That stupid statement is the same old shit as "hardcore VS casual".
I hate hate hate when people try to divide gamers into certain types.That's console-racism deluxe.
It's by far the biggest downside this generation (for me)

 

[BowieZ]

I'm not sure what you're responding to, but some "bright yet non-childish" 2009 games off the top of my head: Trine, Torchlight, Risen, Anno 1404, Uncharted 2, Majesty 2, Brutal Legend. Probably a bunch more, but yeah I think they're possible.

Yeah, sorry, I meant on Wii.

And not for my own personal benefit, but I mean, for studios to make profit from.

 

[Rolf NB]

Yeah, sorry, I meant on Wii.

And not for my own personal benefit, but I mean, for studios to make profit from.

How about Muramasa: The Demon Blade? Was it advertised? Did it sell ok?
(I have no idea)

 

[EDarkness]

I still don't understand why SE decided to completly change the FF: CC formula. They killed completly the little brand awareness FF :CC got from its gamecube and DS offerings, confusing everyone.
With some improvements and adaptation to Wii public (easy to pick up but depth underneath, with solid solo play, and great multiplayer you can play in short sessions), and good marketing, I am convinced it would have done better.

Goodbye FF:CC :_(

I don't think it had anything to do with the fact it wasn't like the original CC. Actually, I think that would have been a bad as well since the first game didn't light up the charts, either. In this case, I think they took all the hype they had and threw it all away with the type of game it turned out to be. It wasn't an RPG at all, and I think that's what people were expecting. Once Square showed everyone what the gameplay was going to be like and there weren't any of their RPG staples in it (no leveling up, gear, no real righting) and the idea that "grandma could play it" the hype was seriously deflated. What they gave people is obviously not the game we wanted.

I was so hyped for this game until they really showed what it was. I can remember watching the original trailer many times a day. I was hyped and so were all my friends, but Square really shouldn't have made the game they did. Such a wasted bit of potential. But that really sorta sums up the Wii for me right now. So many disappointing games that were limited by nothing more than trying to cater to "everyone" and not really pleasing anyone in the process.

 

[selig]

Oh I know, but that costs money too.

of course. But that´s the kind of money that stays the same, all the time. If third parties think that a Wii-game doesnt deserve marketing per se, then that´s where change as to happen first.

I'd like to know what Konami's expectations were for SH. Although if the game is really good enough, I don't see why it shouldn't be able to pull off an Arkham Asylum, Borderlands, Darksiders, etc.

All these games gained hype through demos released before the final game´s release. That´s not possible on the Wii, but it isnt the point. I ask you: Have you seen anything close to "hype" about SH Wii, outside its release-topic here on neogaf?
And it´s really not that hard. Use nice words at its announcement ("Konami works on a revolution within the horror-genre."), followed by good and big press ("360-fans are waiting for Alan Wake. Wii-fans get their treat now."), followed by a hyped up trailer, developer interviews, special editions, etc, etc.
But if we return to reality, Wii-games are treated like that: non-hyped trailer is thrown onto the interwebs -> shitty screenshots -> release -> bomb -> "oh teh noez, games dont sell on Wii!1"

another thing: that "gamers buy ps3/xbox360; people buy Wii" arguement has to be the dumbest line I have ever read.
I'm a gamer and I play Wii. If my grandma buys a Wii and plays it, she's a gamer too. It doesn't fucking matter what she plays or for how long she plays. She is gaming after all, which makes her a gamer. That stupid statement is the same old shit as "hardcore VS casual".
I hate hate hate when people try to divide gamers into certain types.That's console-racism deluxe.
It's by far the biggest downside this generation (for me)

I dont think he meant that in a negative way, but: EVERYONE enjoys playing Wii. Only "gamers" enjoy playing the HD-systems. So Wii includes "gamers", but extends its audience to people in general. No dividing here.

 

[Danthrax]

How about Muramasa: The Demon Blade? Was it advertised? Did it sell ok?
(I have no idea)

It wasn't advertised and it sold terribly.

Spoiler

Coincidence? I think not.

 

[phisheep]

they [Microsoft] mean monthly software tie ratio as in

software sold dec 2009 : hardware sold dec 2009

If so, then that seems a very strange thing to boast about - because it gets higher the less hardware you sell.

 

[fabprems]

another thing: that "gamers buy ps3/xbox360; people buy Wii" arguement has to be the dumbest line I have ever read.
I'm a gamer and I play Wii. If my grandma buys a Wii and plays it, she's a gamer too. It doesn't fucking matter what she plays or for how long she plays. She is gaming after all, which makes her a gamer. That stupid statement is the same old shit as "hardcore VS casual".
I hate hate hate when people try to divide gamers into certain types.That's console-racism deluxe.
It's by far the biggest downside this generation (for me)

Yeah, when you play on your Wii, you're a casual shit, but if you play on your iPhone in the waiting lines you're a gamer...

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

How about Muramasa: The Demon Blade? Was it advertised? Did it sell ok?
(I have no idea)

A bit better than SH and FF:CC, but of course this one had more marketing...oh wait..

SH and FF:CC sales are abysmal, whatever the little marketing behind them.C'mon people other wii games had the same amount or marketing push behind and did reasonably better...

 

[EDarkness]

All these games gained hype through demos released before the final game´s release. That´s not possible on the Wii, but it isnt the point. I ask you: Have you seen anything close to "hype" about SH Wii, outside its release-topic here on neogaf?
And it´s really not that hard. Use nice words at its announcement ("Konami works on a revolution within the horror-genre."), followed by good and big press ("360-fans are waiting for Alan Wake. Wii-fans get their treat now."), followed by a hyped up trailer, developer interviews, special editions, etc, etc.
But if we return to reality, Wii-games are treated like that: non-hyped trailer is thrown onto the interwebs -> shitty screenshots -> release -> bomb -> "oh teh noez, games dont sell on Wii!1"

That's the thing I don't understand. Companies seem to be afraid to hype up their Wii games. They'll have a Wii version of their game, but they won't release any screens, put it in the hands of the press, release videos, talk about it, or anything. This generation has got to be the strangest one we've ever had. None of it really makes much sense.

That does remind me....

Way back in the day, I was at E3 and Ubisoft was showing Rayman. They had a version on the Saturn, Playstation, and Jaguar at the boot. It was cool to see them all side by side, but the strangest thing was when one of the PR guys told someone not to bother with the Jag version (he was trying to get a demonstration) and look at the Saturn and Playstation versions of the game. I was shocked, why the hell would any company NOT pimp their games regardless of the version. Thing is, the Jaguar version was actually quite good, so why not try to get people talking about it? My guess is that publishers are doing the same thing now, but on a more grander scale.

 

[Haunted]

Oh my lord, how did I forget it was NPD day yesterday? HOLY FUCKING SHIT at Wii hardware.


Wii HD coming any minute now. aaany minute.

 

[Brofist]

Sick Wii sales. Too bad another topic has to degenerate into talks about Wii 3rd party support.

 

[Kandinsky]

That means it did LESS THAN 50k. You wanted it to bomb?

Yes because its a terrible game.

 

[BowieZ]

Sick Wii sales. Too bad another topic has to degenerate into talks about Wii 3rd party support.

Like being confused over an increase in third party abandonment has anything to do with an increase in Wii hardware sales.

 

[Patriotsbball5460]

I saw someone earlier mention The Saboteur asking how it sold, but then I didnt see any answer, then later I saw someone say their disappointed at how it sold, but I still can't find the post showing how much it sold, help?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Sick Wii sales. Too bad another topic has to degenerate into talks about Wii 3rd party support.

And what suposed to discuss? how Nintendo obliterate Sony and MS? there's nothing to discuss there, is more interesting IMO how PS3 managed to win 360 in the biggest month. MS should really take notes, they had nice sales, but they have been stale for a few years and those are no longer enough in their particular race with Sony...

 

[selig]

Wii HD coming any minute now. aaany minute.

just wanted to say that thats exactly the wrong thing to do: Assume that Nintendo will not release a new system just because of these sales. I guess we can agree that Nintendo is very unpredictable. And I still guess that there wont be a clear cut off from the current gen like there was before, but there will be the launch of a hybrid-system, that carries on to playing Wii-games, but also introduces the next wave of games. It´s the apple-model, simple as that. Ipod never stopped selling, yet Apple introduced newer, better models, but continued to support former Ipod-buyers.

It´d be REALLY stupid of Nintendo to just wait and see. That´s what got them into the bad software-situation two years ago, which Iwata admittet himself (relying only on WiiMusic and AC). I´d be really surprised if we didn´t get a new version of the Wii late 2010 or 2011.

 

[Brofist]

And what suposed to discuss? how Nintendo obliterate Sony and MS? there's nothing to discuss there, is more interesting IMO how PS3 managed to win 360 in the biggest month. MS should really take notes, they had nice sales, but they have been stale for a few years and those are no longer enough in their particular race with Sony...

It's a beaten topic that's found it's way into many a thread recently. But I guess you may have a point, not much else to discuss.

 

[legend166]

Oh I know, but that costs money too. I'd like to know what Konami's expectations were for SH. Although if the game is really good enough, I don't see why it shouldn't be able to pull off an Arkham Asylum, Borderlands, Darksiders, etc.

You mad?

Arkham Asylum had crazy good word of mouth from the press, got a big marketing campaign, and is based on BATMAN, i.e. a hugely insane film franchise.

Borderlands, despite what bcn-ron thinks, did have a big marketing push. 2K positioned it as a tentpole release. Take this story from MCV in the UK:

Borderlands it set to make the most of big name titles moving out of Q4, and 2K has planned a huge marketing push, including a heavyweight TV campaign on terrestrial and satellite channels, cinema ads, specialist press and a website take-overs on IGN, Eurogamer and Gamespot.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/35539/Borderlands-can-rival-GTA8200and-Halo

That's in the UK. I saw a bunch of Borderlands commercials in Australia, which tells me something because only the big games get ads down here.

Compare this to Konami, who specifically came and and basically said "No, we will not be marketing Silent Hill: Shattered Memories."

That comparison was ridiculous

 

[Taker666]

Can someone explain this part of the Microsoft press release-

In 2009, U.S. Xbox 360 console sales topped 10 million units, with more than 1.3 million sold in December, contributing to a worldwide Xbox 360 install base of 39 million

..because I thought 360 sold around 4.77 million in 2009 going by NPD.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Can someone explain this part of the Microsoft press release-

In 2009, U.S. Xbox 360 console sales topped 10 million units, with more than 1.3 million sold in December, contributing to a worldwide Xbox 360 install base of 39 million.

..because I thought 360 sold around 4.77 million going by NPD.

Means that in 2009, 360 reached the 10 million units in U.S.

 

[phisheep]

another thing: that "gamers buy ps3/xbox360; people buy Wii" arguement has to be the dumbest line I have ever read.
I'm a gamer and I play Wii. If my grandma buys a Wii and plays it, she's a gamer too. It doesn't fucking matter what she plays or for how long she plays. She is gaming after all, which makes her a gamer. That stupid statement is the same old shit as "hardcore VS casual".
I hate hate hate when people try to divide gamers into certain types.That's console-racism deluxe.
It's by far the biggest downside this generation (for me)

That was my line - it was meant to be punchy and ironic, but maybe I should have put quotes around 'gamers' - or said something like 'those that the industry considers to be its core target hardcore market'. But that way it would have lost a bit of its impact.

Really, I didn't mean to upset anyone by it - and certainly didn't mean to imply that gamers aren't people too (quite the reverse) - or that (on a more rational and broader interpretation of the term) your grandma isn't a gamer or a 'real gamer' or anything like that.

EDIT: just to clarify, I'm a broad-based Wii-only gamer myself, along with most of my extended family, not any sort of elitist - though why I should feel the need to explain that goodness only knows!

 

[Taker666]

Means that in 2009, 360 reached the 10 million units in U.S.

Surely it had already passed 10 million in the US in 2008?

 

[John Dunbar]

I think Nintendo should remake this commercial. It would fit perfectly nowadays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQO2VtV1PNg

When I was a kid, I actually thought that was real. I couldn't believe they got so many people.

 

[iamaustrian]

That was my line - it was meant to be punchy and ironic, but maybe I should have put quotes around 'gamers' - or said something like 'those that the industry considers to be its core target hardcore market'. But that way it would have lost a bit of its impact.

Really, I didn't mean to upset anyone by it - and certainly didn't mean to imply that gamers aren't people too (quite the reverse) - or that (on a more rational and broader interpretation of the term) your grandma isn't a gamer or a 'real gamer' or anything like that.

EDIT: just to clarify, I'm a broad-based Wii-only gamer myself, along with most of my extended family, not any sort of elitist - though why I should feel the need to explain that goodness only knows!

ok, i understand your point of view.

When I was a kid, I actually thought that was real. I couldn't believe they got so many people.
Today 12:48 PM

awesome

 

[thestopsign]

I don't get what you guys are saying. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is almost definitely going to outsell Silent Hill: Homecoming. In my mind, that makes the game a huge success. I was expecting sub-30k sales, so it pretty much doubled my expectations. You can't really expect much out of a game that is part of a niche series and has very little advertising. That said, I expect the game to have great legs because of the word of mouth. I've been seeing people on GAF say they had no idea the game existed, but now that they do, they're going to go out and buy it. Stupid anecdotal evidence, but we'll see how it plays out in the coming months.

 

[Castor Krieg]

It wasn't advertised and it sold terribly.

Spoiler

Coincidence? I think not.

Oh, oh , oh

Rising Star Games - Little King's Story, JU-ON: The Grudge, Muramasa all selling well
http://boards.ign.com/nintendo_wii_general_board/b8263/188443217/r188454492/

OH SNAP.:lol

 

[thestopsign]

Oh, oh , oh

Rising Star Games - Little King's Story, JU-ON: The Grudge, Muramasa all selling well
http://boards.ign.com/nintendo_wii_general_board/b8263/188443217/r188454492/

OH SNAP.:lol

a.) Banned site.
b.) They are talking about UK sales.

 

[Zzoram]

Yeah, sorry, I meant on Wii.

And not for my own personal benefit, but I mean, for studios to make profit from.

Anno 1404 Dawn of Discovery launched on Wii as a budget $30 game, but is basically the PC game mechanics with a few things simplified and different art. It pretty much got overlooked but was a quality game.

 

[AlternativeUlster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMyYRy5SgIM&NR=1

 

[Jocchan]

a.) Banned site.
b.) They are talking about UK sales.

The original source is this: http://www.cubed3.com/news/13548
You're right about them being European sales though.

 

[Castor Krieg]

b.) They are talking about UK sales.

Yes, but this discussion long ago diverted into whine for Wii 3rd party WW, not only in the US. Also in UK Rising Star did more than Ignition in the US, once again showing that marketing and effort matters.

 

[GCX]

I think Nintendo should remake this commercial. It would fit perfectly nowadays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQO2VtV1PNg

Or they could start airing this commercial again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfKxpmnAFRw

 

[Massa]

Wrong thread.

 

[Haunted]

just wanted to say that thats exactly the wrong thing to do: Assume that Nintendo will not release a new system just because of these sales. I guess we can agree that Nintendo is very unpredictable. And I still guess that there wont be a clear cut off from the current gen like there was before, but there will be the launch of a hybrid-system, that carries on to playing Wii-games, but also introduces the next wave of games. It´s the apple-model, simple as that. Ipod never stopped selling, yet Apple introduced newer, better models, but continued to support former Ipod-buyers.

It´d be REALLY stupid of Nintendo to just wait and see. That´s what got them into the bad software-situation two years ago, which Iwata admittet himself (relying only on WiiMusic and AC). I´d be really surprised if we didn´t get a new version of the Wii late 2010 or 2011.

Well, I will say this: the next Wii revision should be well underway in its development by now - and Nintendo won't rest on their laurels, waiting for sales to bottom out.

Then again, these unprecedented record numbers should stay their hand for a bit. At least, that's if they're prioritising the US market when making these decisions.

As schuelma said repeatedly, it seems that Nintendo has been mostly looking at their home market of Japan when doing revision and hardware scheduling (which, considering the size of the respective markets seems strange to me, but that's apparently just how Nintendo operates), so since sales have been slowing down there much more than in the US and Europe, anything's possible.

I really don't know how they'll proceed at this point, I'm honestly clueless about it.

 

[LCfiner]

Epic thread. I missed most of it last night but I read through it just now and it didn't disappoint. :lol


just incredible Wii sales. unprecedented. wow. I suppose it was inevitable that the conversation would steer toward third party SW sales on the thing. Count me in the pessimistic camp when "core" stuff like Monster hunter ships. I'd like to be proven wrong, though.

I have to wonder if MS is actually pleased with their flat performance for 2 years now - and barely an increase from 2007) granted, they haven't had to climb up from a deep hole like the PS3 but they must be aiming for growth in 2010. I suppose they're expecting Natal to push a lot of that for the end of this year. It better not be a disappointment.

 

[RJT]

If I were the CEO of Nintendo:

-I'd be preparing a huge WiiToo launch for late 2012/early 2013, again with a huge core title (in beautiful HD) and a huge casual game with online (Mario Party 10, probably)
-It would be something similar in power to the PS3 (which would be cheap by then), and obviously incorporate motion controls.
-I'd ignore third parties for this generation. The only thing I'd do for the future is guarantee support from engine delevopers (Epic, ID, maybe Crytek), so that multiplatform games would naturally be released on the console.

I'd be a great guy...

 

[Nessus]

I'm trying to figure out what it is that third parties should be doing

I don't think it's what third parties should be doing so much as what they should have done back when the system launched.

The Wii has defined itself by now. This is what we're going to be getting for the rest of the system's life span. I don't think there's any way to change the perception this late in the game.

But if third parties had created actual full-fledged, AAA games early on in the system's life span (again, for a fraction of the budgets they've been spending on PS3/360 games), unique experiences exclusive to Wii not available on 360 or PS3, then core gamers would not have jumped ship so quickly.

I must confess I feel a little naive for thinking back when the specs were announced that I'd be content with RE4 quality graphics.

Three years later no third party, save Capcom (and only because they ported the damn thing) has even achieved that on hardware that is appreciably more powerful.

 

[yurinka]

How are LTD (and 2009, please) HW sales of PS3 vs 360 in US?

 

[BowieZ]

I know Nintendo supposedly doesn't care about third parties, but they'd still profit from their popularity on the Wii and increased sales... right? (Right.)

I wonder if it would be of any benefit to start a kind of new ad campaign, with some slogan encouraging so-called "casual" people to "dig deeper" and find more games to play on the Wii.

A slogan, like, "Wii: Collect All the Gems" or something, in reference to less advertised but well received games. Does this make any sense? LOL maybe not

Or they could start airing this commercial again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfKxpmnAFRw

Nope. Try this one:

YOU CANNOT BEAT US

 

[Jocchan]

I really don't know how they'll proceed at this point, I'm honestly clueless about it.

Their DS model has been overly successful till now, so they have no reason not to apply it to the Wii.
Considering third parties are bailing the f**k out everywhere, especially in the West, they need to do something (I mean, anything) unless they're content with the Wii staying a Nintendo games player and shovelware garbage bin (no, Dec. 2009 NPD hardware sales won't make any third party look back and change their mind overnight) for the remainder of the generation, with the concrete risk of the lack of third party support to have consequences in the next (do you really believe third parties would be happy to invest zillions in the Wii 2, even if it's comparable in power with PS4 and Xbox720, after how they shunned Nintendo's audience with the Wii?).
Mind you, I'm not talking exactly about launching new hardware ASAP, because even that wouldn't probably be enough to convince third parties to develop for it.

 

[Castor Krieg]

(do you really believe third parties would be happy to invest zillions in the Wii 2, even if it's comparable in power with PS4 and Xbox720, after how they shunned Nintendo's audience with the Wii?).

You can be sure 3rd party will be crazy over Wii 2, this is what their shareholders expect them to. Once they figure out how to make proper games, and not shovelware crap they will jump right on board.

 

[Nirolak]

You can be sure 3rd party will be crazy over Wii 2, this is what their shareholders expect them to. Once they figure out how to make proper games, and not shovelware crap they will jump right on board.

The SNES absolutely dominated the competition, yet third parties were willing to bail out in favor of the PS1.

What makes you think it will be different this time?

 

[Jocchan]

You can be sure 3rd party will be crazy over Wii 2, this is what their shareholders expect them to. Once they figure out how to make proper games, and not shovelware crap they will jump right on board.

They know exactly how to make proper games and not shovelware crap. Don't believe execs pretending to be confused and dazzled about the unexplicable Wii market: they just didn't want to develop for it in the beginning (for a large variety of reasons), they never really gave it a chance besides third rate "tests", and they're most certainly going to use the data they've gathered to assume the Wii 2 demographic will largely stay the same as the current Wii come next generation.

 

[BowieZ]

You can be sure 3rd party will be crazy over Wii 2, this is what their shareholders expect them to. Once they figure out how to make proper games, and not shovelware crap they will jump right on board.

But if that were the case, they should be cultivating IPs on Wii1 now.

 

[Castor Krieg]

But if that were the case, they should be cultivating IPs on Wii1 now.

I agree, which will be why most games on Wii 2 will be successful only in its 2nd or 3rd iteration. I mean if you look at this Nintendo has 20 years worth of IPs, and 3rd party complaining they cannot compete with that with their 1st game on the system.

 

[le.phat]

awesome sales across the board! ps3 is offically competitive again

Spoiler

for second place that is

Nintendo writing history once more. No wonder nintendo no longer bothers with courting 3rd parties. They are generating more profit then any other publisher/developer on their 1st party titles alone, and i think they are comfortable with it.

 

[Road]

Can someone explain this part of the Microsoft press release-



..because I thought 360 sold around 4.77 million in 2009 going by NPD.

I think they mean worldwide sales for 2009. I read it somewhere where like that.

 

[le.phat]

You can be sure 3rd party will be crazy over Wii 2, this is what their shareholders expect them to. Once they figure out how to make proper games, and not shovelware crap they will jump right on board.

If this was the case then we'd see 3rd parties towards the wii, not away from it. If they want to figure out how to make "proper games" before next gen, then now is the time.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The SNES absolutely dominated the competition, yet third parties were willing to bail out in favor of the PS1.

What makes you think it will be different this time?

In that time there were involved a few good particular reasons linked at how Nintendo deal with 3rd parties, game storage solution and other factors included the fact that the SNES succesor was released 1-2 years after the PS1. I highly doubt this will happen, again, when there was a leader change in this sector it was always partally because the former leader company screwed it for the most part...