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[Vinci]

Why are you guys squabbling like old ladies?

 

[phisheep]

Why are you guys squabbling like old ladies?

Dunno. It looks like a minor quibble about the exact use of the word exact that got way out of hand. I'm out of it!

 

[Xeke]

yeah back then mario was in a worse shape then now.. its nsmb on DS really that rejuvenated the game commercially and Galaxy that established it as the top franchise in the industry in terms of quality...

and mario isnt really a series or franchise... its similar to the wii xx titles.. its just nintendos main character 2d platformer, 3d platformer, sports, kart, RPG, party games with the insanely popular character mario in it..

Mario wasn't in bad shape. SM64 DS sold over a million, then Mario Kart DS blew up, then NSMB came.

 

[Jokeropia]

I respond when people say stupid things, so if responses from me is what you want you know what to do.

 

[Version 3.0]

:lol Yea bub you totally got me. The distinction you are making is idiotic. For every "hardcore" system owner you are no doubt supremely jealous of, there's three fools content with Halo and Madden. Or worse, Call of Duty and NCAA. Or even worse MLB2k. Generalizations about a userbase is stoooopit.

If I was off base about you, and you really only object to the math, then I apologize. But A) the math is fine and B) you couldn't possibly be more off base about me. I'm the most hardcore guy here, bar none.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I wonder if anyone made this argument after Super Mario Strikers came out.

You should have said Mario Kart for more lulz.

Seriously though, it's all good and nice to think that Halo will continue to sell cuz Halo, but the reality is that the franchise is mired in a bit of a pickle with multiple releases over one generation, stiff competition from a number of developers in the same genre, and repeated (or in some cases, outclassed) game concepts.

in the OXBOX generation, Halo had the advantage of being the best and brightest on all consoles for pretty much the entire gen. Now? it's not even the most popular FPS on the XBOX 360.

 

[farnham]

Mario wasn't in bad shape. SM64 DS sold over a million, then Mario Kart DS blew up, then NSMB came.

yes you are right.. i guess mario was in a bad shape when the only mario million seller was mario party something.. but thats a thing of the past..

 

[paparazzo]

Holy crap at everything. I think it's safe to say NSMBW passed 3M in December, as the NPD doesn't report Walmart or Amazon, if I'm not mistaken. It isn't out of the question to say Uncharted 2 passed a million as well, all things considered.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Wow, this thread is epic.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Concept-based games don't (generally) benefit from content-based sequels. Content-based games do benefit from content-based sequels.

*and the rest I snip so as not to make a huge quote*

I like this. It's not stuff that's never come up before, but "concept-based" and "content-based" are easy-to-digest terms.

Wii broke the DS' record from 2008 for highest monthly sales ever, but DS broke the Wii's record from 2008 for highest yearly sales ever. :lol

The two biggest phenomenas in the history of the industry, both occurring at the same time.

Nintendo loves hardware rereleases, disruptive software... and twins!

the reason you do a person-year attach rate would be to help mitigate the negative impact of sharply growing hardware sales on attach rate, and also mitigate the positive impact of sharply declining or slow hardware sales on attach rate.

if you take the number of person-months the consoles have been owned for, the software purchasing rate is exactly identical for all three.

what's your issue, with the concept or the math?

Obviously I've been something of a champion of looking at things like the "weeks ownership" statistic and have repeatedly combined that with tie ratios to get the figure talked about, but the concept does have flaws. If we were to do a "games purchased per week" thing for the PS2's lifetime, it would now seem to be shrinking pretty steadily, as people move on from active PS2 use. Even in the shorter term, people might have different buying habits at launch than a year later. So looking at the sales of 10 one-month owners of system A and 1 ten-month owner of system B would give us 10 system-months in both cases, but they wouldn't be comparable in reality.

There's also that while the figures are usually pretty close, it was only one month that the figures worked out ridiculously close.

 

[Jackson]

I know, I was pointing out that they are a western 3rd party dev that has had a lot of success on a Nintendo system - and they are still looking to transition to the 360. Which is possibly evidence that western devs really do want to be working on the best hardware, and will risk sales to do so.

No. We expect to do better on XBLA than we have on DS (and we've done very well on the DS).

I can't speak for other companies, but no one at 5TH Cell ever does something different because it's a worse idea for sales. :lol

 

[Sadist]

Why are you guys squabbling like old ladies?

Because you wouldn't be able to drink tea and eat crumpets of course.

Everybody loves crumpets and tea!

 

[poppabk]

If all you are trying to do is disprove the myth that Wii owners buy slowerly enough to justify an argument about then there is nothing wrong at all.

This is precisely the way I use these figures. They can vary significantly over time I believe and so, although calculated exactly at a given point in time, they are only rough estimates overall. However they are much better than "the 360 is a software monster" and the "Wii owners don't buy games" 'common sense' that gets brought out all the time.

 

[Struct09]

Holy crap at everything. I think it's safe to say NSMBW passed 3M in December, as the NPD doesn't report Walmart or Amazon, if I'm not mistaken. It isn't out of the question to say Uncharted 2 passed a million as well, all things considered.

I believe they add in estimated numbers from the big retailers that don't report to them

 

[Son of Godzilla]

in the OXBOX generation, Halo had the advantage of being the best and brightest on all consoles for pretty much the entire gen. Now? it's not even the most popular FPS on the XBOX 360.

Now, I know everyone knows that Custer dies at the Battle of Little Bighorn. What my book presupposes is... maybe he didn't?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Now, I know everyone knows that Custer dies at the Battle of Little Bighorn. What my book presupposes is... maybe he didn't?

Cool story brah.

 

[poppabk]

No. We expect to do better on XBLA than we have on DS (and we've done very well on the DS).

I can't speak for other companies, but no one at 5TH Cell ever does something different because it's a worse idea for sales. :lol

I was kinda hoping that you would respond. As 5TH Cell are seemingly the only ones in the West to have worked out the secret to success on the DS, I did find it interesting that the next game would be on XBLA, which would seem higher risk than continuing working on the same platform. Then again maybe that is why you guys have had so much success is because you are not afraid to take risks. Of course we don't get to see the figures that would indicate what the potential reward would be on a given platform, especially the download services.

 

[Version 3.0]

Holy crap at everything. I think it's safe to say NSMBW passed 3M in December, as the NPD doesn't report Walmart or Amazon, if I'm not mistaken. It isn't out of the question to say Uncharted 2 passed a million as well, all things considered.

You're mistaken. These are figures for the entire United States. There is no tracker yet that actually records and counts every sale of every item, but NPD estimates entire sales based off of the percentage they do track. They're considered the most reliable source available.

 

[ReyBrujo]

I believe they add in estimated numbers from the big retailers that don't report to them

They report Amazon numbers, but just estimate Wall-Mart. I think they also lost Toy's R US?

 

[Xeke]

I believe they add in estimated numbers from the big retailers that don't report to them

Yeah and given the cost of the full NPD report there is probably a pretty complex equation to make that estimate.

 

[boiled goose]

Yeah and given the cost of the full NPD report there is probably a pretty complex equation to make that estimate.

I would not say it is very complex... It is probably just a sum of percentages from the retailers they do track.

But, they do account for all US sales nonetheless.

 

[SlipperySlope]

I've resigned to the point that 3rd parties aren't going change their ways this generation.

The only question now is how many more of them will go bust before next generation starts and they have a new opportunity to change their ways.

 

[Man God]

I honestly don't think Halo Reach is going to outsell 3 unless they rename it Halo 4: Reach and get a new Mountain Dew flavor for it.

 

[boiled goose]

I honestly don't think Halo Reach is going to outsell 3 unless they rename it Halo 4: Reach and get a new Mountain Dew flavor for it.

I honestly think it is all about hype. There is clearly a huge halo fanbase and an even bigger FPS fanbase on the 360 as evidenced by MW2. If Halo reach becomes the next big thing in the mind of all these consumers, then it could outsell 3.

The problem is that I think the FPS online multiplayer genre currently has a lot more competitions on 360 than when 3 came out. Some will chose battlefield, some will chose medal of honor, some will be buying MW2 later, some will be happy with MW2, some will wait for MW3 or COD7, etc. Consumers now have too many options.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Mario wasn't in bad shape. SM64 DS sold over a million, then Mario Kart DS blew up, then NSMB came.

As a launch owner of the original DS Fat, I can say that SM64 DS sold because there wasn't anything else to play on the system at the time. There was a huge post launch drought and I bought this game to just have *anything* to play on the system.

 

[Busaiku]

As a launch owner of the original DS Fat, I can say that SM64 DS sold because there wasn't anything else to play on the system at the time. There was a huge post launch drought and I bought this game to just have *anything* to play on the system.

Super Mario 64 DS is still selling though.
It did over a million just through March of last year.
I imagine Nintendo will have sold another million through the end of their fiscal year.

 

[JardeL]

WTF?!?

 

[speculawyer]

A solid title is all you need before throwing marketing dollars at it. A game is "AAA" based on marketing, not on quality. I mean, your "lol mini game collection" argument goes for a lot of Wii's top-sellers but they are top-sellers nonetheless. Do you want effort in games or do you want high marketing behind okay games like Army of Two? Personally, I feel like Wii probably has enough to keep a regular person occupied. I did just well with only a GCN for four years.

Million Sellers on the Wii
1. Wii Sports (45.71 million) (April 2009)[12]
2. Wii Play (22.98 million) (April 2009)[12]
3. Wii Fit (18.22 million) (April 2009)[12]
4. Mario Kart Wii (15.40 million) (April 2009)[12]
5. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (8.43 million) (April 2009)[12]
6. Super Mario Galaxy (8.02 million) (April 2009)[17]
7. Mario Party 8 (6.72 million) (April 2009)[17]
8. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.52 million) (March 2008)[17]
9. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million) (March 2008)[18]
10. Link's Crossbow Training (3.76 million) (April 2009)[12]
11. Animal Crossing: City Folk (3.38 million) (April 2009)[12]
12. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (2.9 million) (May 2009)[19]
13. Super Paper Mario (2.28 million) (March 2008)[17]
14. Wii Music (2.65 million (April 2009)[12]
15. Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree (2.26 million) (March 2008)[17]
16. Deca Sports (2 million shipped) (April 2009)[20]
17. Game Party (2 million shipped) (March 2009)[21]
18. WarioWare: Smooth Moves (1.82 million) (July 2007)[22]
19. Mario Strikers Charged (1.77 million) (March 2008)[17]
20. Carnival Games (1.5 million) (June 2008)[23]
21. Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition (1.4 million) (September 2008)[24]
22. Guitar Hero World Tour (1.334 million) (January 2009)[25]
23. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (1.31 million) (March 2008)[17]
24. Mario Super Sluggers (1.26 million) (April 2009)[12]
25. Rayman Raving Rabbids (1.2 million) (March 2008)[18]
26. Sonic and the Secret Rings (1.2 million) (March 2008)[18]
27. We Ski (1.2 million) (December 2008)[26]
28. Big Beach Sports (1.2 million) (February 2009)[27]
29. Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles (1.15 million) (September 2008)[28]
30. Red Steel (1 million) (March 2008)[18]
31. Active Life: Outdoor Challenge (1 million) (January 2009) [29]
32. Rock Band (1 million) (December 2008)[30]
33. Game Party 2 (1 million shipped) [21]

So over 1/3 of those are mini-games. :lol (Actually more I think . . . Brain Academy could be called mini-games. And perhaps Link Cross-bow too?)

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

 

[avaya]

That Wii number is there or there abouts expected if you extrapolate natural grwoth rate of the market. You'd expect near double growth in 6 years (2003 to 2009). A console like PS2 in popularity doing 2mn in 2003 should be doing 3.5-4.0mn in 2009.

Fact of the matter is that every other system bar the DS and Wii has totally bombed. Sony stopped growing the market and tried to ape Microsoft and got lost on the way. Microsoft is just a PC company stuck in some sort of limbo. Only Nintendo's being doing the job, they actually fucking learned from their competitors.

 

[Dude Abides]

Cool story brah.

I believe this witty and original response is intended to be used when someone posts a lengthy personal story, rather than as an all-purpose "No YOU'RE wrong!"

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

Any word on where Uncharted 2 and Borderlands landed in December?

I'm guessing Borderlands was 21st-30th on the npd.. UC2.. probably lower.

 

[Pennywise83]

Konami announces Step to the beat:

Good job konami, i can't really understand why 3rd party software dont sell on the Wii...

 

[pr0cs]

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

Wow, pretty damning.

 

[Littleberu]

So over 1/3 of those are mini-games. :lol (Actually more I think . . . Brain Academy could be called mini-games. And perhaps Link Cross-bow too?)

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

What's a "mini-game"? Aren't Guitar Hero and Rock Band mini-games, too?

 

[farnham]

So over 1/3 of those are mini-games. :lol (Actually more I think . . . Brain Academy could be called mini-games. And perhaps Link Cross-bow too?)

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

wario ware is no mini game

its a micro game collection.. thats a huge difference

 

[gamergirly]

So over 1/3 of those are mini-games. :lol (Actually more I think . . . Brain Academy could be called mini-games. And perhaps Link Cross-bow too?)

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

They shouldnt bother if they're going to spend 5 million on a half assed effort

 

[AceBandage]

So over 1/3 of those are mini-games. :lol (Actually more I think . . . Brain Academy could be called mini-games. And perhaps Link Cross-bow too?)

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

No, we all know.
It's because they can't even sell their games on the 360, so there's no way they could compete with Nintendo's quality.

 

[abacab driver]

Halo is in the decline stages of its product cycle. The days of it hanging with Call of Duty (which is nearing its "peak" stage) are long over.

Exactly what in your mind leads/led you to believe ODST was created to "hang with Call of Duty"?

If I were Microsoft, I'd be very reluctant to continue mining the franchise. There's only so much more the userbase will bear, especially sonce ODST brought almost nothing new to the table.

..And Rockstar should be reluctant to 'mine' GTA after Lost & the Damned and Gay Tony right?

ODST has sold about 4.5 million copies as of now and could possibly hit 5 million by the time the Reach beta hits.
You are insane if you think a franchises spinoff (which probably costed a 3rd of Halo 3's budget to make) selling that much is any reason to be reluctant.

Whomever is doubting the 'strength' of Halo brand and/or the allure of a true successor to Halo 3 in Reach will be in for a very rude awakening come E3..can not wait to see how Gaf reacts.

 

[Souldriver]

So over 1/3 of those are mini-games. :lol (Actually more I think . . . Brain Academy could be called mini-games. And perhaps Link Cross-bow too?)

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

We from Volkswagen have decided not to introduce our hybrid car in China for the foreseeable future. If you look at the current amount of hybrid Volkswagens in China right now, namely none, it's quite clear that there's no market for this type of car over there. So why bother?

Contrarily, we have only introduced a very dated and polluting car there 2 years ago. It's not selling to hot, but at least it sold more than our Hybrid, so it's quite clear we have to continue making dated and polluting cars. It's what the Chinese market wants.

 

[AceBandage]

We from Volkswagen have decided not to introduce our hybrid car in China for the foreseeable future. If you look at the current amount of hybrid Volkswagens in China right now, namely none, it's quite clear that there's no market for this type of car over there. So why bother?

Contrarily, we have only introduced a very dated and polluting car there 2 years ago. It's not selling to hot, but at least it sold more than our Hybrid, so it's quite clear we have to continue making dated and polluting cars. It's what the Chinese market wants.

Editors note: The dated, polluting car is also made of pure shit.

 

[Kuroyume]

Using Halo Wars and Halo 3: ODST as a way to guage interest in Halo is incredibly stupid. If a developer were to make a COD RTS, or if Infinity Ward had decided to create a short campaign based on COD4, pack in a horde mode without matchmaking, and bundle three maps in addition to maps released previously for the game rather than develop MW2 are you suggesting that either of these two things would have matched the sales of either COD4, WaW, or MW2? That doesn't even make any sense. Honestly, I can't say I disagree that Halo has a lot of competition coming up this year between COD 7, MOH, Rage, Brink and whatever elese but there's no way to determine the interest in Halo until Reach is released.

 

[Taurus]

So over 1/3 of those are mini-games. :lol (Actually more I think . . . Brain Academy could be called mini-games. And perhaps Link Cross-bow too?)

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

Since when was Mario&Sonic a mini-game? Doesn't it make every olympic sports game a mini-game then?

We from Volkswagen have decided not to introduce our hybrid car in China for the foreseeable future. If you look at the current amount of hybrid Volkswagens in China right now, namely none, it's quite clear that there's no market for this type of car over there. So why bother?

Contrarily, we have only introduced a very dated and polluting car there 2 years ago. It's not selling to hot, but at least it sold more than our Hybrid, so it's quite clear we have to continue making dated and polluting cars. It's what the Chinese market wants.

That was pretty spot on. :lol :lol

 

[velvet_nitemare]

I mostly agree with the analysis, but the idea of "concept-" and "content-orientated" games seems a bit wishy-washy to me. I think that there's a much more distinct separaration simply between linear and non-linear titles.

Late reply, but you of all people shouldn't label anyone's posts wishy-washy.

 

[gamergirly]

We from Volkswagen have decided not to introduce our hybrid car in China for the foreseeable future. If you look at the current amount of hybrid Volkswagens in China right now, namely none, it's quite clear that there's no market for this type of car over there. So why bother?

Contrarily, we have only introduced a very dated and polluting car there 2 years ago. It's not selling to hot, but at least it sold more than our Hybrid, so it's quite clear we have to continue making dated and polluting cars. It's what the Chinese market wants.

:lol

 

[AniHawk]

10 out of the top 10 feature Nintendo IP. (OK, Mario & Sonic was from SEGA but it did feature Mario . . . I'm sure it would not have sold well if it were not for Mario.)

Only 2 games in the list are 'M' rated . . . and both are Resident Evil.

And people actually wonder why Rockstar doesn't bother?

Why did Rockstar bother with the DS? It has even fewer million selling M rated games. None, actually.

 

[szaromir]

No. We expect to do better on XBLA than we have on DS (and we've done very well on the DS).

I can't speak for other companies, but no one at 5TH Cell ever does something different because it's a worse idea for sales. :lol

Really? Didn't Scribblenauts sell (well) over 500k in US alone? Do you expect to surpass that number on XBLA? Only a handhul games on XBLA managed to beat that/

 

[Version 3.0]

We from Volkswagen have decided not to introduce our hybrid car in China for the foreseeable future. If you look at the current amount of hybrid Volkswagens in China right now, namely none, it's quite clear that there's no market for this type of car over there. So why bother?

Contrarily, we have only introduced a very dated and polluting car there 2 years ago. It's not selling to hot, but at least it sold more than our Hybrid, so it's quite clear we have to continue making dated and polluting cars. It's what the Chinese market wants.

Made me smile.

speculawyer: you have it backwards. The list looks like it does because Rockstar (and everyone else) didn't bother, not the other way around. When there's a contest and only one guy shows up, guess who wins?

 

[Rush2thestart]

I already asked this earlier but I didnt get a response... so no Rabbids Go Home sales? Ubi did say they were picking up, but that could be just in EU.

 

[Firestorm]

Really? Didn't Scribblenauts sell (well) over 500k in US alone? Do you expect to surpass that number on XBLA? Only a handhul games on XBLA managed to beat that/

Retail vs Digital has different payoffs.

No, we all know.
It's because they can't even sell their games on the 360, so there's no way they could compete with Nintendo's quality.

Did GTAIV meet expectations?

Edit: Oh and look:

Despite the dour analysis, Feder did praise the episodes' critical acclaim and said they were "profitable contributors to the company, so we're pleased with them."

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Now, I know everyone knows that Custer dies at the Battle of Little Bighorn. What my book presupposes is... maybe he didn't?

So awesome.