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[AniHawk]

What is the point of making these excuses? The facts are in.

Do you really think the publishers are going to pour more money into failure? Perhaps the reason they don't get much of a marketing budget is that they already realized it was a hopeless cause. They just finished up the game and shipped it so they could recoup some of their investment. But don't plan on seeing NMH3.

I'm not making excuses, and there's nothing that points to the No More Heroes series being a failure. This isn't MadWorld, which really was the audience's fault when it failed. Sega advertised the game, gave it some nice production value, and it was well-received, but still flopped. TVC was released the same day, had a marketing campaign, and did much better than NMH2- and TVC is mostly an unknown quantity. There isn't an audience for fighting games on the Wii, not in the style Capcom does 'em, yet it still did better. No More Heroes did over 200k. It was up to UbiSoft to capitalize on that. They didn't. They failed.

 

[Rush2thestart]

I posted this earlier, but I realized it was ignored after all the "OMG NMH2 bombed!" responses, so I'll post it again.

"No More Heroes was released on January 22nd 2008, NPD stopped tracking on Feb 2 ->
No More Heroes sold 65k in 12 days.
No More Heroes 1 went on to sell over 100k by Feb 15 2008 in the US.
By January 2009, it sold 208k in the US.


No More Heroes 2 was released on January 26th, 2010, NPD stopped tracking on Jan 31st ->
No More Heroes 2 sold less than 30k in 6 days"

 

[speculawyer]

It kind of does

You said Ubisoft pushed the game out to recoup costs after knowing (or assuming) it would fail.

OK . . . sure, they didn't spend money on developing it. But they didn't spend money on marketing it and I doubt they will next time.

 

[Truespeed]

I don't think that's a reason to think it failed. If that's the case, then people would have just bought the 360 version in droves.

Perhaps - had they marketed the actual game. Which they didn't. I'm not saying you have to buy a 3 million dollar commercial for the Super Bowl to tell people about your game, but it will be interesting to see how well Dante's Inferno does when it's placed in the hands of a proper marketing team.

 

[AniHawk]

I posted this earlier, but I realized it was ignored after all the "OMG NMH2 bombed!" responses, so I'll post it again.

"No More Heroes was released on January 22nd 2008, NPD stopped tracking on Feb 2 ->
No More Heroes sold 65k in 12 days.
No More Heroes 1 went on to sell over 100k by Feb 15 2008 in the US.
By January 2009, it sold 208k in the US.


No More Heroes 2 was released on January 26th, 2010, NPD stopped tracking on Jan 31st ->
No More Heroes 2 sold less than 30k in 6 days"

This really doesn't mean much. NMH2 isn't going to sell a magically huge amount in February.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I'm not making excuses, and there's nothing that points to the No More Heroes series being a failure. This isn't MadWorld, which really was the audience's fault when it failed. Sega advertised the game, gave it some nice production value, and it was well-received, but still flopped. TVC was released the same day, had a marketing campaign, and did much better than NMH2- and TVC is mostly an unknown quantity. There isn't an audience for fighting games on the Wii, not in the style Capcom does 'em, yet it still did better. No More Heroes did over 200k. It was up to UbiSoft to capitalize on that. They didn't. They failed.

To be fair, TvC is the kind of game you buy a console for. NMH2, not so much.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

OK . . . sure, they didn't spend money on developing it. But they didn't spend money on marketing it and I doubt they will next time.

*rubs temples*

 

[Owzers]

Perhaps - had they marketed the actual game. Which they didn't. I'm not saying you have to buy a 3 million dollar commercial for the Super Bowl to tell people about your game, but it will be interesting to see how well Dante's Inferno does when it's placed in the hands of a proper marketing team.

You mean Dante's Inferno has something besides a marketing team?


I remember that year when Prince of Persia and Beyond Good and Evil were piled on top of each other. I think that was also the time where Ubisoft became a synonym for "price drop"

 

[AniHawk]

OK . . . sure, they didn't spend money on developing it. But they didn't spend money on marketing it and I doubt they will next time.

They did the same thing with Sands of Time and Beyond Good & Evil. UbiSoft has a history of poor management when it comes to their own video games. SoT and BGE weren't even released on all systems on the same day- each version came out about a week or a month apart.

And then for some reason, they decided to release more games for the Wii than Nintendo has. I mean we're talking dozens upon dozens of games. And those didn't make money either because they were just as poorly handled as their other stuff. NMH2 should have been a moneymaker, but with what looks like low shipments, no marketing, and a lousy release date (why not just push it back to some time in February instead of the same day as MAG, TVC, and ME2?), it looks like a bunch of clueless people running the joint.

Again, this isn't Sega, who's for some reason, given the Wii tremendous support in sometimes the worst kind of ways (like canceling NiGHTS 2 for PS360 and making it a Wii exclusive but not changing the release date), and still see bombs. UbiSoft has a history of making bad decisions. This is just one of them.

 

[savor100]

Mario Kart Wii is the best distance runner ever

 

[Rush2thestart]

This really doesn't mean much. NMH2 isn't going to sell a magically huge amount in February.

My point was that it did almost half the amount of the original in half the time. If it keeps at the current pace, it should be fine. That's a big if.

 

[ivysaur12]

Perhaps - had they marketed the actual game. Which they didn't. I'm not saying you have to buy a 3 million dollar commercial for the Super Bowl to tell people about your game, but it will be interesting to see how well Dante's Inferno does when it's placed in the hands of a proper marketing team.

I saw plenty of press on Bayonetta and a few commercials. On the other hand, I saw absolutely nothing for NMH2, even when it was out.

To be fair, TvC is the kind of game you buy a console for. NMH2, not so much.

Really? Maybe if you're in the extreme minority that's into 2D arcade fighting games. But even then those numbers are inconsequential.

 

[Truespeed]

You mean Dante's Inferno has something besides a marketing team?

Ya, actual sales.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

If TvC hit 50k, then I'd call that a success... sadly.

Sadly? It'd outsold both the original and UAS in Japan, the place where Tatsunoko is actually supposed to be a Big Deal. Considering half the cast is completely unknown in America (unless you were really lucky and saw one of the series as a kid), I'd say 50k is a bang-up job and something Capcom should be really proud of.

Plus, as I said before, as a Wii game and as a fighting game with positive reviews and word-of-mouth, it's going to have a looong tail. Especially now since online was included.

 

[AniHawk]

My point was that it did almost half the amount of the original in half the time. If it keeps at the current pace, it should be fine. That's a big if.

And my point is that's not how sales work.

 

[Jin34]

What is the point of making these excuses? The facts are in.

Do you really think the publishers are going to pour more money into failure? Perhaps the reason they did not give it much of a marketing budget is that they already realized it was a hopeless cause. They just finished up the game and shipped it so they could recoup some of their investment. But don't plan on seeing NMH3.

This from the guy who used the Bayonetta aesthetics are unappealing to gamers in the West as a reason for its sales. If Bayonetta was too Japanese what does that make No More Heroes :lol

 

[Regulus Tera]

I'm really, really impressed at TatsuCap's performance. It beat No More Heroes 2, despite the first game being a sales success and having one of the most obscure character rosters ever.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

TVC was released the same day, had a marketing campaign, and did much better than NMH2

How much better?

 

[nincompoop]

And my point is that's not how sales work.

Well NMH must have sold around 40k in February 2008, after selling 64k in its first twelve days. I mean I wouldn't expect NMH2 to reach 100k by the end of February like the first one did but it should at least eclipse the 25k it sold in its first 5 days.

 

[AniHawk]

How much better?

Apparently twice?

 

[Rush2thestart]

And my point is that's not how sales work.

I know sales tend to drop off hard after the first couple days, but it's not farfetched to think it could've sold an extra 20k in twice the amount of time.

We'll see though.

 

[Nirolak]

I know sales tend to drop off hard after the first couple days, but it's not farfetched to think it could've sold an extra 20k in twice the amount of time.

We'll see though.

Given the widespread GAF reports of the game being really hard to find in stores, that's looking a bit unlikely.

 

[watership]

I'm not sure why people thought Bayonetta would actually do well. Sega marketed the game using the same amount of expertise and effort they applied when porting it to the PS3. So, it was destined to fail, just like the frame rate, screen tearing and graphics do on the PS3. I can't think of any recent game that has garnered so much negative publicity and anger before its actual release.

It failed because the game lacks appeal. Its just batshit insane without the cool factor that a game like that usually generates. I played the demo with a friend and he just handed the controller back to me saying "I understand how to play this, yet I have no fucking clue what I'm playing." The hardcore might buy this game, but even among that crowd there was a huge lack of interest.

It has fantastic gameplay, but that won't save it from the fact that a semi hardcore group of gamers look at it and think,
"Hmm I think I'll skip out the game with the giant chick who's head is freakishly two sizes too small and gets naked when her hair forms a giant boot to kick angels to pieces".

 

[AniHawk]

Well NMH must have sold around 40k in February 2008, after selling 64k in its first twelve days. I mean I wouldn't expect NMH2 to reach 100k by the end of February like the first one did but it should at least eclipse the 25k it sold in its first 5 days.

I don't think UbiSoft cares too much about the game. Continued sales are going to rely on more shipments, and it doesn't look like that's happening. I think it somehow got jumbled around in their release list of casual stuff and focusing on the sequel to a game that made a small but tidy profit just wasn't important to them.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

:lol @ Dark Void. Man so many bombas that mouth. Though Bayonetta isn't as bad as people say.

Saying that though holy shit at Tatsunoko vs Capcom not bombing. Seriously I would have NEVER expected that game to be able to hold its own.

I don't usually jump into the blame game on the Wii 3rd party argument, but I think UbiSoft really dropped the ball here. They had a lot of good will with the first game, had a better received sequel, and completely disregarded it by not marketing it. Even worse, they released it on a day when Mass Effect 2 and TVC came out. From my perspective, it doesn't even look like they cared that they had a sequel to something that made them money.

Capcom's decision to market TVC really puzzles me too. There was no way in hell that game was ever selling anything. "Versus Capcom" isn't a franchise people rush to the store for, and Tatsunoko is a complete unknown. People were never going to care that this was a lot like Marvel vs. Capcom. The effort put into TVC- the extra characters, the online, and the marketing- it all shows that Capcom really cared about this title and wanted it to sell quite a bit. It makes me wonder why DSC didn't get an ad campaign though, when that was obviously the better choice to make as far as raising peoples' awareness. To me, it's as Sega advertising The Conduit but not Sonic and the Black Knight.

Which brings me back to UbiSoft: Tatsunoko vs. Capcom outsold NMH2? Really? With the kind of fanbase each series has on the Wii (nonexistent vs. healthy enough to make a sequel)? Talk about mismanagement.

This. No More Heroes 1 had way more advertising (Web ads, Magazine Coverages, etc.). While for No More Heroes 2, with the exception of the announcement blowout in Edge it was pretty much non-existent.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Seeing Mario Kart Wii still going strong, I wonder how Sonic All-Stars Racing will do on the Wii.

 

[markatisu]

OK . . . sure, they didn't spend money on developing it. But they didn't spend money on marketing it and I doubt they will next time.

You are right they did not spend money on marketing, and since they did not spend money on developing doesn't that imply their total funds spent on NMH2 were low??

The way Ubisoft handled the game I can only guess that it has to sell on par with Ninjabread Man or Anubis, and probably why if there was a third one I can easily see them picking it up as well. Why spend a lot of money if you can make a bit of profit without needing to do jack shit?

 

[Rush2thestart]

Given the widespread GAF reports of the game being really hard to find in stores, that's looking a bit unlikely.

Really? This is the first I'm hearing of it. Hopefully Ubisoft sees the shortages as demand and supplies more....or maybe throw out an ad?!

lol, I wouldn't hold my breath for the latter.

 

[speculawyer]

This from the guy who used the Bayonetta aesthetics are unappealing to gamers in the West as a reason for its sales. If Bayonetta was too Japanese what does that make No More Heroes :lol

I dunno . . . is NMH too Japanese as well?

Do you have a better theory on Bayonetta? Or is it the same . . . no marketing, they didn't try hard enough, etc.

It has fantastic gameplay, but that won't save it from the fact that a semi hardcore group of gamers look at it and think,
"Hmm I think I'll skip out the game with the giant chick who's head is freakishly two sizes too small and gets naked when her hair forms a giant boot to kick angels to pieces".

Exactly.

 

[Lunchbox]

:lol

thats my favorite this month

 

[Owzers]

I dunno . . . is NMH too Japanese as well?

Do you have a better theory on Bayonetta? Or is it the same . . . no marketing, they didn't try hard enough, etc.

I think the biggest problem Bayonetta faced was competition. Everything got tipped into Jan-May and i don't think you can get 4 new releases to all sell 200k+ If it were just Darksiders and Bayonetta releasing this month, i think you could add another 100k to each game, easily. Both got high reviews and a good ad campaign.

 

[Nightz]

A little OT, but whatever happened to sonycowboy? I remember he used to post the results.

 

[AniHawk]

I dunno . . . is NMH too Japanese as well?

NMH being too Japanese is kinda the big joke about NMH. It makes fun of this American guy who's way into Japanese culture for his own good. Both Bayonetta and NMH are way over the top on purpose.

 

[Bizzyb]

How else do you tell your investors that the Wii doesn't have a core audience and are responsible for some sort of financial woes.

Ubisoft sending NMH2 to die with no advertisements whatsoever and a poor judgment of release date just furthers my hatred towards them. Seriously, I've never had more disdain for a videogame publisher than I do with them. I wish NHM2 could have found a different publisher as I feel dirty contributing to Ubisoft's pockets at this point.

 

[speculawyer]

NMH being too Japanese is kinda the big joke about NMH. It makes fun of this American guy who's way into Japanese culture for his own good. Both Bayonetta and NMH are way over the top on purpose.

Ah. I see. Well, perhaps that was a factor as well. I really don't know much about the game . . . I just always thought it was weird that a guy on the cover was holding a fluorescent light bulb.

 

[boiled goose]

I think the biggest problem Bayonetta faced was competition. Everything got tipped into Jan-May and i don't think you can get 4 new releases to all sell 200k+ If it were just Darksiders and Bayonetta releasing this month, i think you could add another 100k to each game, easily. Both got high reviews and a good ad campaign.

I think that is part of the problem as well.

Darksiders, ME2, Bayonetta, Dark void + more for the xbox all in freaking January. Something has got to give.

Publishers need to space out their major releases better in both time and space (consoles)

 

[Lonely1]

Did Capcom promoted Dark Void or was just sent to die? I also wonder how much does MW:R sold in January.

 

[Rush2thestart]

Did Capcom promoted Dark Void or was just sent to die? I also wonder how much does MW:R sold in January.

It had at least decent promotion. I saw a couple TV ads.

I, too, am curious about MWR and Silent Hill Wii.

 

[Lonely1]

It had at least decent promotion. I saw a couple TV ads.

Wow, that sucks.

 

[Zen]

[PS3] MAG ~150K hmm ok
[PS3] Darksiders ~130K not mind blowing but acceptable
[360] Bayonetta ~100K expected and sobering
[PS3] Bayonetta ~60K expected
[Wii] Tatsunoko vs. Capcom ~50K surprisingly decent
[Wii] No More Heroes 2 ~25K not surprising, but disappointing give the sales of the 1st game
[All] Dark Void - 22K HOLY MOTHER FUCKING SHIT.

Dear lord, are we looking at sub Bionic Commando numbers?

 

[Bizzyb]

Did Capcom promoted Dark Void or was just sent to die? I also wonder how much does MW:R sold in January.

It had commercials, a demo, and even a DSiware "tie-in"

The game just looked, "meh"...very, very "meh". And the demo did not help at all.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Apparently twice?

I think that's speculation... Edit- 50k? Sweet! That's like exactly where I said to myself, "If it sells this much I'll be really happy with it."

Saying that though holy shit at Tatsunoko vs Capcom not bombing. Seriously I would have NEVER expected that game to be able to hold its own.

Some might say... it's indestructible.

 

[Vizion28]

I wouldn't put too much stock in first month Wii software sales since they are usually not front loaded as they are on the HD consoles.

Another thing worth noting is that Wii software doesn't have to sell a million to make a profit. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a No More Heroes 2 and de Blob 2 wouldn't be in the works.

As for Let's Dance being in the top 10 it can be attributed to its massive, good marketing campaign. There has been similar dance games on the Wii (such as Boogie) that failed to hit those numbers which goes to show how important good marketing works. Another example of good marketing on the Wii is EA Sports Active which sold over 2 million.

If Ubisoft were smart they would put forth a huge marketing campaign for Red Steal 2 emphasizing it is the first 1 to 1 swordfighting motion controlled action game ever. This is something the world wanted when the Wii was first unveiled back in 2006. I can see the game selling at least 2 million WW easily if they did.

 

[Jin34]

I dunno . . . is NMH too Japanese as well?

Do you have a better theory on Bayonetta? Or is it the same . . . no marketing, they didn't try hard enough, etc.


Exactly.

Your reason for Bayonetta is perfectly valid, a lot of it is too weird for westerners and/or they wont get it. My point is that with Bayonetta you go with that as a reason meanwhile for NMH, a game with a similar style problem, you go with the blame the Wii reason. Do you not see the double standard?

Frankly I don't get what the big mystery is with the Wii, 3rd parties never treated it as seriously as the PS360 and thus they dont get the same results, yet this seems to mystify them and others.

 

[Hellsing321]

I kind of hope all these game keep bombing. Speed up the death march to the bargain bin so I can save some money!

 

[seady]

Was there a lot of ads for Just Dance that I am not aware of? Or is it a existing brand or television show? How come it is selling so well here and in Europe? How did the casuals know about this game?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

:lol at "too Japanese." What does that make Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, then?

 

[Deku]

:lol at "too Japanese." What does that make Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, then?

sounds Russkie

 

[Vizion28]

Was there a lot of ads for Just Dance that I am not aware of? Or is it a existing brand or television show? How come it is selling so well here and in Europe? How did the casuals know about this game?

I heard there are constant TV ads for it in the UK.

 

[daycru]

:lol

BOOM