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[Three]

Success or failures of companies and the reasons doesn't make me happy or unhappy, I'm just looking at how the things happened.

Without Sony and Microsoft mistakes, 360 and PS4 situations would be very different, specially on 360 case, PS4 would be fine despite not being this huge success.

Ofcourse the market is based on competition and of course some do the right things while others do the wrong things but trying to suggest that something is based more on the wrongs of something than the rights of something else as the reason for a relative gap is like trying to argue whether the glass is half full or half empty.
Did Microsoft get it right by launching a year early with 360 or did Sony get it wrong launching a year late. There is no right answer.

 

[Welfare]

He's saying MS is the major factor in PS4 success. I don't see how can you agree with that.

In the US, if MS had not fucked up the XB1, the PS4 would not be the market leader. Starting January 2010, the 360 had consistently outsold the PS3 every month up until September 2013, and that was because the PS3 had the GTAV bundle (even then the difference was 37k). The 8th gen was Microsoft's to lose, and well, they did.

 

[benny_a]

As is this one.

Did you know that there was a Ferrari Station Wagon prototype that played the Italian anthem when you passed 100km/h?

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Wow so Xbox is $50 cheaper than the PS4 and it's still getting its ass handed to it in MS strongest region. There really isn't anything they can do there. They are just going to have to ride a rough gen out and hope Sony somehow majorly fucks something up somewhere.

 

[Fdkn]

In the US, if MS had not fucked up the XB1, the PS4 would not be the market leader. Starting January 2010, the 360 had consistently outsold the PS3 every month up until September 2013, and that was because the PS3 had the GTAV bundle (even then the difference was 37k). The 8th gen was Microsoft's to lose, and well, they did.

The problem with that statement is that it is taking console sales as a semi-fixated quantity that would go to one or another manufacturer depending of which one of them makes less mistakes, which is a ridiculous approach.

If the PS4 wasn't a compelling product by itself, it would not sell as good as it does. No matter what the XB1 was doing on the process. When nobody makes a product the market wants, the market simply buys less products.

The major factor of PS1 and PS2 success was Sony
The major factor of PS3 failures was obviously Sony
The major factor of current PS4 success is, indeed, Sony.

That works for the others in the same way.

That's not questionable imho, because the other way of thinking takes sales for granted.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Success or failures of companies and the reasons doesn't make me happy or unhappy, I'm just looking at how the things happened.

Without Sony and Microsoft mistakes, 360 and PS4 situations would be very different, specially on 360 case, PS4 would be fine despite not being this huge success.

I don't understand this logic. The PS1 and PS2 were huge successes for Sony. The PS3 was the outlier and it wasn't too far from hitting the 100M mark either. As such, I would look at the PS4 as a return to form and MS aiding that process rather than saying MS is a major factor for the success period.

 

[SwolBro]

It's a matter of perspective I guess, but generally having your competitor fumble out of the gate shouldn't diminish your achievement if you do a nearly perfect run I think.

But it's only perfect when compared to the initial launch of the xbox. I hardly find their offering anywhere near perfect, and actually a bit inferior to what Microsoft has done and is doing with the Xbox currently.

People should also admit that Sony read their userbase and the market expertly, made the right calls pretty much all along (including when unseen circumstances such as delays and technical problems arose, cf Driveclub/ UC4/ R&C...) and had to rely mostly on third party for 2015.

They did indeed build up their goodwill.

"A" factor for the PS4's success was certainly MS botching their launch, no doubt. But even if it was a big one I doubt it still explains this global domination when within 6 months MS had 180'd most problems and launched programs to try one'uping Sony everywbere they could.

Sony was always a stronger brand than MS globally, besides maybe the UK with the 360. Sony also gets that sales boost from Japan, where Microsoft sells close to 0.

In the US, they positionned their messaging "for the gamers" with a mix of relatively powerful hardware architecture, no Drm messaging, Gaming identity and marketing savyness (which is sort of new imo, for SCEA at least).

That sounds nice but i think it's really just coming out of the gates strong while the competitor fumbled hard. The message trickled down and kept going for some time. Microsoft didn't respond quickly enough, and by then the damage was done. Sony still has a stronger or as Strong gaming brand in NA, i'd argue, even when the 360 had it's success. We can't ignore the ridiculous success of the PS1/2 in NA.

In the gaming industry it seems coming out of the gates is the most vital part of the entire generation. I could be wrong, but that's how i see it.

 

[DustyVonEric]

These "What do people see in GTAV?" posts are as bad as the "Why is ps4 selling?" posts and their variations.

For millions, both the game and the system are fun and worth owning. It may not be your thing, but surely that they appeal to others cannot be hard to understand.

For me, GTAV helped bring the fun over-the-top zaniness back into the series that GTA4 lacked until the dlc. Good word of mouth for new players, new remastered editions for lower priced next-gen consoles, online play and support, three main characters each with their own special ability, and heist-based story and missions (who doesn't like a good heist?), helps make it a continued success.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The problem with that statement is that it is taking console sales as a semi-fixated quantity that would go to one or another manufacturer depending of which one of them makes less mistakes, with is a ridiculous approach.

If the PS4 wasn't a compelling product by itself, it would not sell as good as it does. No matter what the XB1 was doing on the process. When nobody makes a product the market wants, the market simply buys less products.

The major factor of PS1 and PS2 success was Sony
The major factor of PS3 failures was obviously Sony
The major factor of current PS4 success is, indeed, Sony.

That works for the others in the same way.

That's not questionable imho, because the other way of thinking takes sales for granted.

.

 

[allan-bh]

Except for the fact that ps1/2 also existed. Are we to believe Sony keeps seeing console success by accident or because everyone else maps making mistakes? Even their "failure" console ps3 sold 80 plus million units.

-PS1 success has a lot to do with Nintendo mistakes, The delay, cartridges, authoritarianism in the relations with publishers...

-PS2 success is all about Sony, perfect work.

-PS3 failure* is all about Sony

-PS4 success is divided because even with Sony working well, PS4 would not be what it is without Microsoft mistakes.


*For me is a failure even with more than 80 million because of the lost in market share, plus billions in loss for the first years.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Did you know that there was a Ferrari Station Wagon prototype that played the Italian anthem when you passed 100km/h?

They say you learn something new every day.

I can now check that box for today.

 

[Culex]

Can we draw a correlation from this NPD data that the hardware market has irrevocably shrunk?

Seems like around this same launch-aligned period for PS3 + 360, sales were markedly higher. Throw in the Wii, and it's even worse.

Go back one gen earlier to PS2 + Xbox + GC, and it's even worse.

 

[QuantumZebra]

He's saying MS is the major factor in PS4 success. I don't see how can you agree with that.

I mean... it was.

X360 owned the US until that god-awful Xbone reveal... that damaged the company so badly PS4 was free to skate to incredible sales

 

[TheStruggler]

anyone have rough numbers for ps4, X1 and WIIU for last month sales?

 

[benny_a]

Can we draw a correlation from this NPD data that the hardware market has irrevocably shrunk?

Wait whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

 

[Fdkn]

I mean... it was.

X360 owned the US until that god-awful Xbone reveal... that damaged the company so badly PS4 was free to skate to incredible sales

And again, if that was the case, and PS4 was not as good product in the eyes of the market as it seems to be, people would simply buy less consoles.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

-PS4 success is divided because even with Sony working well, PS4 would not be what it is without Microsoft mistakes.

The PS brand has always been much stronger worldwide. Even with the PS3, they were outperforming the X360 worldwide.

Why would MS not making mistakes suddenly decline Sony's success with PS4 if even the PS3 did better than the X360?

Can we draw a correlation from this NPD data that the hardware market has irrevocably shrunk?

Seems like around this same launch-aligned period for PS3 + 360, sales were markedly higher. Throw in the Wii, and it's even worse.

Go back one gen earlier to PS2 + Xbox + GC, and it's even worse.

Now we're talking.

 

[Welfare]

Can we draw a correlation from this NPD data that the hardware market has irrevocably shrunk?

Seems like around this same launch-aligned period for PS3 + 360, sales were markedly higher. Throw in the Wii, and it's even worse.

Go back one gen earlier to PS2 + Xbox + GC, and it's even worse.

Yes, the total is shrinking. The PS2's third January (451k) is more than what the PS4+XB1+WIU sold this month, and the 360+PS3 total for their 3rd January was 433k, which is still higher than what the PS4+XB1+WIU sold this month.

 

[onQ123]

Didn't knew that, Walmart, Gamestop, Best Buy, Target, and others, all selling Xbox One for $300 during the entire month of january.

That's change things, if is true of course.

Target has the $30 gift card & $10 off of Xbox Live so it's not $300 but close & Best Buy has the price match that make it $300 , Gamestop also has the $30 giftcard or a free Rare Replay & action figures.

 

[GametimeUK]

Lol at the crap gamer tweets. I usually troll his youtube videos quite hard. Congratulations to Sony and I'm not surprised at GTA and Minecraft any more. It's just a way of life. Crazy legs.

I miss generalmld on YouTube. He puts crap gamer to shame.

 

[Welfare]

Didn't knew that, Walmart, Gamestop, Best Buy, Target, and others, all selling Xbox One for $300 during the entire month of january.

That's change things, if is true of course.

Of course not.

 

[Three]

-PS1 success has a lot to do with Nintendo mistakes, The delay, cartridges, authoritarianism in the relations with publishers...

-PS1 success has a lot to do with Sony's success, launching earlier, going disc based, offering more freedom to publishers

See how this works?

What's funny is that the things you listed were a success in the SNES era

 

[Culex]

Wait whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

The black and white data speaks for itself...I'm merely asking the question.

Do you have data that says otherwise?

 

[Vanillalite]

So how long does Nintendo have to coast with no real cash coming in?

Is it all on mobile to keep the house afloat until shit happens?

 

[biglittleps]

I mean... it was.

X360 owned the US until that god-awful Xbone reveal... that damaged the company so badly PS4 was free to skate to incredible sales

Still Xbone sells at the same rate as PS4 this gen in both US and UK and the only difference is that PS4 was able to sell better than PS3 this time, so i dont think their launch message did too much damage like you think (It did for first year but they recovered later by offering great deals in catching up). Xbox was always selling bad in Europe, Asia, Japan and rest of the world before where PS3 still did great and PS4 now doing even better at PS2 levels which made big difference.

 

[Obliterator]

Ahhh the doomed talks begin. Now the thread may start getting interesting at least

 

[Welfare]

-PS1 success has a lot to do with Sony's success, launching earlier, going disc based, offering more freedom to publishers

See how this works?

What's funny is that the things you listed were a success in the SNES era

Actually, I'm wrong.

 

[allan-bh]

The PS brand has always been much stronger worldwide. Even with the PS3, they were outperforming the X360 worldwide.

Why would MS not making mistakes suddenly decline Sony's success with PS4 if even the PS3 did better than the X360?

Now we're talking.

PS3 and 360 is a virtual tie, probably we will never know which sold better, but doesn't really matter since is so close.

About current gen, if Microsoft had played their cards right Xbox One would be selling way more than PS4 in USA, this alone would have a significant impact in worldwide numbers, plus Xbox One likely would have more market share than it has today in the rest of the world.

Here it is, even with a great work if PS4 was facing a better Xbox One the situation would be different.

 

[KillerMan91]

He's saying MS is the major factor in PS4 success. I don't see how can you agree with that.

Because in US it definitely was. The sales difference between PS3 and X360 in US was bigger than between N64 and PS1. X360 was completely dominant HD console (in US) last gen in same way as PS2 and PS1 were before that. Had MS followed the same strategy with Xbox One as they originally did with X360 (and what Sony did between PS1 and PS2) the sales landscape would be definitely different. PS4 is not the Wii. It's selling to the same pool of people as Xbox One with the same appeal. Xbox One simply would have bigger part of the current totals if MS would have not screwed up.

 

[biglittleps]

So how long does Nintendo have to coast with no real cash coming in?

Is it all on mobile to keep the house afloat until shit happens?

They need something like Wii again, otherwise mobile is the only thing that can save them in future or may be they can release their games in other platforms because they can become a good publisher due to their IPs.

 

[Massa]

PS3 and 360 is a virtual tie, probably we will never know which sold better, but doesn't really matter since is so close.

About current gen, if Microsoft had played their cards right Xbox One would be selling way more than PS4 in USA, this alone would have a significant impact in worldwide numbers, plus Xbox One likely would have more market share than it has today in the rest of the world.

Here it is, even with a great work if PS4 was facing a better Xbox One the situation would be different.

If the PS4 wasn't what it is then maybe the original Xbox One plans would have been the right cards. They just looked extremely bad by comparison.

There's no point in considering wildly fictional scenarios in sales discussions.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

PS3 and 360 is a virtual tie, probably we will never know which sold better, but doesn't really matter since is so close.

About current gen, if Microsoft had played their cards right Xbox One would be selling way more than PS4 in USA, this alone would have a significant impact in worldwide numbers, plus Xbox One likely would have more market share than it has today in rest of the world.

Here it is, even with a great work if PS4 was facing a better Xbox One the situation would be different.

If Microsoft played their cards right, Sony would've adopted a different strategy. You cannot say definitively that the XB1 would sell way more than the PS4 in the US since Sony would have taken other measures to take back some of the marketshare.

 

[Obliterator]

One thing is for sure, Nintendo needs NX. And soon. Their hardware market has evaporated

 

[CosmicQueso]

Can we draw a correlation from this NPD data that the hardware market has irrevocably shrunk?

Yes.

Seems like around this same launch-aligned period for PS3 + 360, sales were markedly higher.

Versus only the PS4 and Xone, false.

Throw in the Wii

Then yes, last gen was higher.

Go back one gen earlier to PS2 + Xbox + GC, and it's even worse.

Sure.

 

[Fdkn]

Because in US it definitely was. The sales difference between PS3 and X360 in US was bigger than between N64 and PS1. X360 was completely dominant HD console (in US) last gen in same way as PS2 and PS1 were before that. Had MS followed the same strategy with Xbox One as they originally did with X360 (and what Sony did between PS1 and PS2) the sales landscape would be definitely different. PS4 is not the Wii. It's selling to the same pool of people as Xbox One with the same appeal. Xbox One simply would have bigger part of the current totals if MS would have not screwed up.

But can't you see that works the other way around just the prior gen? The sales difference between PS2 and Xbox in US was even bigger and that didn't mean anything for the PS3 because of their own mistakes.

If XB1 was a better product than it is, and the PS4 was the same as it is now, the current total should be higher. Not the same as it is now but with a different share. The market is not fixed.

 

[allan-bh]

-PS1 success has a lot to do with Sony's success, launching earlier, going disc based, offering more freedom to publishers

See how this works?

What's funny is that the things you listed were a success in the SNES era

The point is that even with Sony doing right, if Nintendo had a good strategy the situation would be another.

Same thing with 360 for example, outside of 3rd lights Microsoft was almost perfect, but if Sony had played well, would not work at the same level.

 

[Welfare]

If Microsoft played their cards right, Sony would've adopted a different strategy. You cannot say definitively that the XB1 would sell way more than the PS4 in the US since Sony would have taken other measures to take back some of the marketshare.

A different strategy of what? The 360 was massive in the US starting in 2010. A competent MS wouldn't have let Sony take any share from them.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Jesus H Christ, GTA V's numbers are just beast.

Yeah, but that's just expected.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

A different strategy of what? The 360 was massive in the US starting in 2010. A competent MS wouldn't have let Sony take any share from them.

And the same applies to Sony. A more competent Sony wouldn't let history repeat itself. It's a two-way street.

Had MS not messed up with the XB1 reveal, why would Sony all of a sudden brag about the PS4 not having DRM and having the ability to play used games at E3?

 

[Square2015]

The Genesis sold more than SNES in the US.

Not likely, I have done considerable research on this and the final numbers look like:

SNES 17-18m [includes SNES mini]
GEN 16-17m [includes GEN3]

 

[Welfare]

Not likely, I have done considerable research on this and the final numbers look like:

SNES 17-18m [includes SNES mini]
GEN 16-17m [includes GEN3]

Really? I thought Genesis pulled ahead near the end of its life.

Hmm, I'll retract that comment then.

Had MS not messed up with the XB1 reveal, why would Sony all of a sudden brag about the PS4 not having DRM and having the ability to play used games at E3?

Well exactly this, Sony had nothing else to make the PS4 look better than XB1 besides its power, and power alone doesn't make a console sell more than any other.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

The major factor for the current level of PS4's success is not Sony, but Microsoft. Same thing can be said about 360's success, Sony did more for this than MS.

Of course Sony has its own merits (like MS had in the previous generation too).

How reductive and how rude towards the devs and engineers and marketers and managers who worked hard to make their respective products a success.

But hey. When you clearly have an underlying bias that Microsoft would've continued to expand while Sony declined, what's the point in correcting you? MS's bad choices opened up some room for Sony to gain marketshare, but Wii U being such a poor follow-up to the Wii is an even bigger gap compared to last-gen.

Even so, the PS4 was clear with their messaging, focused on what core gamers wanted, and delivered a product at a price that people thought was fair. Even if Xbox One did things differently (they didn't, so what's the point in speculating?) PS4 would still be doing better than PS3.

 

[allan-bh]

If Microsoft played their cards right, Sony would've adopted a different strategy. You cannot say definitively that the XB1 would sell way more than the PS4 in the US since Sony would have taken other measures to take back some of the marketshare.

360 killed PS3 in US, so if both Sony and Microsoft had hit a good strategy, odds would be in Microsoft's favour.

Of course Sony would fight, like Microsoft is fighting right now for be competitive in US.

 

[Vena]

One thing is for sure, Nintendo needs NX. And soon. Their hardware market has evaporated

If they make the NX out of Dry Ice then they can go all the way and have their hardware market sublimate!

Though I personally think a raw potassium handheld would be a great step forward. Bored? Throw it in some water and run.

 

[jayu26]

Oh God! Save us from this "what if [insert company here] played their cards right" malarkey, creamsugar.

 

[LegendofLex]

Really? I thought Genesis pulled ahead near the end of its life.

Genesis was ahead until DKC came out, IIRC.

 

[Fady K]

The major factor for the current level of PS4's success is not Sony, but Microsoft. Same thing can be said about 360's success, Sony did more for this than MS.

Of course Sony has its own merits (like MS had in the previous generation too).

Yes indeed Allan, and I'm sure the dominant success of the PS1 and PS2 is mainly because of Microsoft as well.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

360 killed PS3 in US, so if both Sony and Microsoft had hit a good strategy, odds would be in Microsoft's favour.

Of course Sony would fight, like Microsoft is fighting right now for be competitive in US.

Yes, but that is assuming if their strategies were equally effective. However, you also cannot discount the possibility of Sony coming up with a more effective strategy. There are a lot of nuances we have to take into account and as a result, we cannot make such a definitive conclusion.

 

[MastaKilla]

Love that rainbow six seige is still up there!! Can we please all put to rest the idea that round based tactical shooters have no hope on consoles?

BRING BACK SOCOM!!!

 

[allan-bh]

Not likely, I have done considerable research on this and the final numbers look like:

SNES 17-18m [includes SNES mini]
GEN 16-17m [includes GEN3]

According to a Wedbush report SNES sold 20m and Genesis 18.5m in US.