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[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Sony mentioned that Bloodborne will release within 6 months so we are looking at February the latest. The Halo 5 Beta starts on 12/29 and runs through 1/17 so people will have a choice of getting the XB1 for the beta or going with Bloodborne. Microsoft was smart to put the beta at the end of the holiday season to entice people to buy the console 8 months earlier then they would have. So Halo 5 is a factor.

People aren't going to choose a console for a beta when they can choose another console for a whole actual game. So in that sense Bloodborne has the drop on Halo 5 (beta).

Other than that they are two completely different games with very different tastes, they'll "compete" more on the basis they're both video games and cost $60 each than in being similar in any major fashion.

Wow... 3DS is doing significantly worse than DS. Drop off is almost as bad as Wii -> Wii U. Why aren't more people (including Nintendo and Iwata) talking more about this? Everyone (including NCL) seems focused on Wii -> Wii U drop off.

Those numbers are kind of hard to look at, but it's a bastion of heaven compared to what Vita has to work with.

A sad state of affairs for handhelds all the same (in the West).

 

[lightning2k3]

You just described AAA, let's not go crazy with nomenclature .

We typically use AAA, AA, niche and occasionally B-tier. But it mostly applies to launch budgets and revenue expectations. Obviously not development - you never tell a studio they are making you a B game haha!

Would you describe infamous and killzone as AAA? They don't sell nearly as much as Uncharted or Gran Turismo.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Would you describe infamous and killzone as AAA? They don't sell nearly as much as Uncharted or Gran Turismo.

AAA was intended to describe the budget of a project and while that would correlate with expected sales that's not always the case whereas the budget would be a known entity in the industry

 

[donny2112]

Ummm bad news, but sometimes quality =/= high sales. Just look at Wii U now. A lot of 1st party games are highly praised. It is still worst performing Nintendo console ever. Also nothing tops Mario Kart + Smash combo. Cmon. Zelda is even in decline.

Of course it will be Nintendo's worse performing console ever. We're just talking about whether it can end up ahead of Vita, though, so that's not relevant. Speaking of Smash, there is a 1-2 month impact in 2014 for Smash. Smash will be out for all of 2015. Nintendo games make their impact in the long run better than most other games out there. Would also expect Nintendo to drop the price next year and maybe even all the way to $200. Zelda may be in decline (is it even?), but it's still Zelda.

Sony's abandoned Vita. Indies aren't going to resurrect it any more than they will resurrect Wii U. Its future isn't bright outside of PSTV taking off. There is reason to expect Wii U improvement, though. Improvement =/= Good sales. Again, we're just talking about whether it'll end up above Vita or not. In the big picture, it doesn't matter, though, as Wii U and Vita are both still failures in terms of sales. Which one ends up dead last isn't really an important distinction. I think Wii U will end up above Vita (unless PSTV etc.). You think Vita will end up above Wii U. Both will be at the bottom by a large distance.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[gigantor21]

Wow... 3DS is doing significantly worse than DS. Drop off is almost as bad as Wii -> Wii U. Why aren't more people (including Nintendo and Iwata) talking more about this? Everyone (including NCL) seems focused on Wii -> Wii U drop off.

It's not even close to PSP numbers, never mind the DS.

A handheld market where the leader crushes it's competition but can't match last gen's distant second place...no wonder so many third parties have been ignoring both platforms. Sony's inevitable exit after the Vita won't help matters.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Wow... 3DS is doing significantly worse than DS. Drop off is almost as bad as Wii -> Wii U. Why aren't more people (including Nintendo and Iwata) talking more about this? Everyone (including NCL) seems focused on Wii -> Wii U drop off.

Because the less I have to think about Nintendo's future in gaming, the better.

 

[Jeels]

3.0 is the worldwide number. I assume John Harker's 2.7 is referring to US attach rates.

Not doubting you, but can i see the receipts?

Edit: I assume he meant xbox first party titles have sold more copies than playstation first party titles since the two have been directly competing. Which I still believe is completely false.

I could believe it if we were talking about the Us. Halo and Gears of War consistently sold way better than any of Sonys offerings. And Gran Turismo wasnt as big in the Us as it was in Europe. (plus not counting Japan where Ms had no presense)

 

[Welfare]

Sure would be great if we got some LTDs on Halo, Gears, and some Sony exclusives, you know, just to compare with.

 

[John Harker]

Would you describe infamous and killzone as AAA? They don't sell nearly as much as Uncharted or Gran Turismo.

In context I would, sure. Sony spends a lot on them at launch.
They don't give them b tier budgets.

Would you consider uncharted AAA? It doesn't sell nearly as much as CoD, Battlefield or AC

 

[Mysterious]

I could believe it if we were talking about the Us. Halo and Gears of War consistently sold way better than any of Sonys offerings. And Gran Turismo wasnt as big in the Us as it was in Europe. (plus not counting Japan where Ms had no presense)

Name some 5M+ sellers developed/published by SCE? Now do the same for Microsoft Studios and Nintendo Company.

You'll see why, despite producing critically acclaimed games, SCE's first-party titles aren't as powerful as you may think.

 

[Game Guru]

Wow... 3DS is doing significantly worse than DS. Drop off is almost as bad as Wii -> Wii U. Why aren't more people (including Nintendo and Iwata) talking more about this? Everyone (including NCL) seems focused on Wii -> Wii U drop off.

Actually, Nintendo seems just as focused on the DS drop off if not moreso as the Wii drop off. The plan for their ninth generation console and handheld has iOS-ification as a key feature, showing that they've acknowledged their major competitor, mobile, and are taking steps to combat them. In addition, they plan for additional funding through QoL and licensing endeavors. However, all of this takes time and Nintendo is not going to abandon the systems they have out at the moment, which is the 3DS and the Wii U. It took Sony an entire generation to recover from their blunders with the PS3 and look at where they are with the PS4. Should we not at least grant Nintendo the same benefit of the doubt?

 

[Aquamarine]

So, XBone is heavily outperforming when it comes to exclusives, and PS4 is outperforming on multiplats? Wouldn't that seem to indicate consumers have already begun to designate XBone as "just for exclusives," since they seem to be buying exclusives and little else for the machine?

I think the split is like 57% PS4 and 43% Xbox One for multiplats.

We do have a situation where Xbox One's software ecosystem is definitely more defined by exclusives than the PS4.

But it's not significant enough of a trend where Xbox One is "just for exclusives."

The Xbox One still has a healthy software ecosystem...not as healthy as the PS4, but it's one that's still viable for publishers and consumers.

 

[Road]

dontcrossthestreams.jpg

3DS, under/over half of PSP July 2008?

 

[Birgitte2004]

Name some 5M+ sellers developed/published by SCE? Now do the same for Microsoft Studios and Nintendo Company.

You'll see why, despite producing critically acclaimed games, SCE's first-party titles aren't as powerful as you may think.

Does Microsoft have any that aren't Halo?

 

[Salex_]

Name some 5M+ sellers developed/published by SCE? Now do the same for Microsoft Studios and Nintendo Company.

You'll see why, despite producing critically acclaimed games, SCE's first-party titles aren't as powerful as you may think.

You seem to be following the misconception. Halo and Gears are the only 5m+ sellers that MS has. Forza gets bunched into the Halo/Gears/Forza group, but it doesn't sell as well as those games.

 

[Aquamarine]

Not doubting you, but can i see the receipts?

Edit: I assume he meant xbox first party titles have sold more copies than playstation first party titles since the two have been directly competing. Which I still believe is completely false.

Well...retail console exclusives these days tend to be funded by either Sony or Microsoft.

My definition of "1st-party" is whether or not Sony or Microsoft funded production.

We know that Microsoft at least partially funded Titanfall...it's going to stay a Microsoft exclusive.

So in my opinion it's a "first-party" title.

I know I'm going to get backlash on this statement, and I don't want to argue semantics.

But I will say that if you remove Titanfall from the equation, Microsoft looks a good deal weaker in comparison to Sony than with it.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Name some 5M+ sellers developed/published by SCE? Now do the same for Microsoft Studios and Nintendo Company.

You'll see why, despite producing critically acclaimed games, SCE's first-party titles aren't as powerful as you may think.

UnCharted 3 sold something like 8-9 million (about the same as the last big Halo game). Gran Turismo routinely sells that much almost 3 times over easy (not minding 6, that's an anomaly). God of War easily sells 5 million. The Last of Us is probably damn close to 9 million by now. And so on and so forth.

So yeah Sony's 1st-party titles are pretty big sellers if we're talking about the big ones. The strength in Sony's 1st party that MS and Nintendo lack - and is very critical to consumer perception - is variety. They have shown incredible diversity in genres and even IP going from gen to gen, something Nintendo and especially Microsoft falter at almost embarrassingly.

 

[jholmes]

i mean sure, if you have a large green hard-on, this would be your view

I don't, but thanks for bringing some class to the discussion. And for, you know, proving my point.

 

[Canis lupus]

Name some 5M+ sellers developed/published by SCE? Now do the same for Microsoft Studios and Nintendo Company.

You'll see why, despite producing critically acclaimed games, SCE's first-party titles aren't as powerful as you may think.

SCE:
God of War
GT
Uncharted
TLOU
LBP

MS:
Halo
Gears

 

[Mysterious]

UnCharted 3 sold something like 8-9 million (about the same as the last big Halo game). Gran Turismo routinely sells that much almost 3 times over easy (not minding 6, that's an anomaly). God of War easily sells 5 million. The Last of Us is probably damn close to 9 million by now. And so on and so forth.

So yeah Sony's 1st-party titles are pretty big sellers if we're talking about the big ones. The strength in Sony's 1st party that MS and Nintendo lack - and is very critical to consumer perception - is variety. They have shown incredible diversity in genres and even IP going from gen to gen, something Nintendo and especially Microsoft falter at almost embarrassingly.

Source please?

Also Last of Us was 7M before TLOUR came out. What it is now is anyone's guess, but 2M in ~2 weeks seems like Sony would've released a press release for by now.

 

[prwxv3]

I think the main reason for all the discussion about the health of the console market, with all due respect, is people point to a company swimming red ink, abandoning hardware and scaling back key features as "winning" something.

They are the sales leader for this generation in consoles so they are "winning" the console race so far. Abandoning Vita and scaling back key features is irrelevant.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Well...retail console exclusives these days tend to be funded by either Sony or Microsoft.

My definition of "1st-party" is whether or not Sony or Microsoft funded production.

We know that Microsoft at least partially funded Titanfall...it's going to stay a Microsoft exclusive.

So in my opinion it's a "first-party" title.

I know I'm going to get backlash on this statement, and I don't want to argue semantics.

But I will say that if you remove Titanfall from the equation, Microsoft looks a good deal weaker in comparison to Sony than with it.

It going to be interesting when Titanfall 2 comes out .

Source please?

Also Last of Us was 7M before TLOUR came out. What it is now is anyone's guess, but 2M in ~2 weeks seems like Sony would've released a press release for by now.

Sony took forever to give us a press release about TLOU .
We found out how much it sold first week then had to wait months before we get numbers.
Sony take a while to release numbers for there games.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Because the less I have to think about Nintendo's future in gaming, the better.

They can have my Wii U and 3DS when they pry them from my cold dead hands

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Source please?

Also Last of Us was 7M before TLOUR came out. What it is now is anyone's guess, but 2M in ~2 weeks seems like Sony would've released a press release for by now.

I don't have a hard source for UC3, but the series hit 17+ million in 2012 before UC:GOTY edition came out. So divide by three and that's at least about 6 million each installment, though the trend has been that each successive game's sold more than the previous so by simply shifting a few around you can reasonably get to 8-9 million for UC3 (especially including the GOTY edition).

Secondly the 7M figure for TLOU was likely a rounded estimate and was a few weeks before Remastered came out. Remasterd's been out for a couple of weeks now, it sold at least 200K in five days in July alone, so it'll at least be at 7.5 million in a matter of days. And it's still one of the best performing new IP of the past several years, there's no denying that (not saying you are of course).

 

[Culex]

After this month, streams of the Wii and PS4 will cross and the Wii won't look back for a long time, in the US.

 

[sörine]

So yeah Sony's 1st-party titles are pretty big sellers if we're talking about the big ones. The strength in Sony's 1st party that MS and Nintendo lack - and is very critical to consumer perception - is variety. They have shown incredible diversity in genres and even IP going from gen to gen, something Nintendo and especially Microsoft falter at almost embarrassingly.

Looking at their overall libraries I really don't see Sony having any diversity advantage over Nintendo or MS. All 3 publish a lot of games in a wide variety of genres.

Nintendo tends to lean more on classic IP, Sony tends to iterate more frequently in a shorter timespan, MS tends to look externally more for production. But in terms of diversity, no one's embarrassing the competition.

 

[Mysterious]

I don't have a hard source for UC3, but the series hit 17+ million in 2012 before UC:GOTY edition came out. So divide by three and that's at least about 6 million each installment, though the trend has been that each successive game's sold more than the previous so by simply shifting a few around you can reasonably get to 8-9 million for UC3 (especially including the GOTY edition).

Secondly the 7M figure for TLOU was likely a rounded estimate and was a few weeks before Remastered came out. Remasterd's been out for a couple of weeks now, it sold at least 200K in five days in July alone, so it'll at least be at 7.5 million in a matter of days. And it's still one of the best performing new IP of the past several years, there's no denying that (not saying you are of course).

Naughty Dog games are among my favorites, but I was of the impression that Zelda/Uncharted/Metal Gear don't actually perform well, despite being critically acclaimed, unlike Mario/GTA.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Looking at their overall libraries I really don't see Sony having any diversity advantage over Nintendo or MS. All 3 publish a lot of games in a wide variety of genres.

Nintendo tends to lean more on classic IP, Sony tends to iterate more frequently in a shorter timespan, MS tends to look externally more for production. But in terms of diversity, no one's embarrassing the competition.

Your not seeing right MS iterate as much as Sony maybe more and Sony also uses just as much externally devs for production maybe more.

 

[Xilium]

Name some 5M+ sellers developed/published by SCE? Now do the same for Microsoft Studios and Nintendo Company.

You'll see why, despite producing critically acclaimed games, SCE's first-party titles aren't as powerful as you may think.

Neither MS or Sony have that many titles that break 5M. That's a lot harder to do than people seem to realize. Anyway, not the most accurate but good enough for the discussion at hand.

X360 Best Sellers

PS3 Best Sellers

As I found out yesterday, if you parse out the 1st party sales of both systems, you'll find that they aren't too far apart in total 1st party sales (for games over 1M anyway).

 

[RyanPierre]

My definition of "1st-party" is whether or not Sony or Microsoft funded production..

I always figured first-party just referred to whether it was published by Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo. So games like Ryse/DR3/SO would be considered first-party, while a game like Titanfall, which was published by EA, would technically be third-party, even if it was fully exclusive.

But I'm not sure if there are generally accepted definitions for first/third-party. Maybe it's a question that would be best posed in a spin-off thread.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Neither MS or Sony have that many titles that break 5M. That's a lot harder to do than people seem to realize. Anyway, not the most accurate but good enough for the discussion at hand.

X360 Best Sellers

PS3 Best Sellers

As I found out yesterday, if you parse out the 1st party sales of both systems, you'll find that they aren't too far apart in total 1st party sales (for games over 1M anyway).

That list is really out of date UC2 and UC3 have sold more than that .
TLOU sold more , KZ3 also sold over million etc etc .

Naughty Dog games are among my favorites, but I was of the impression that Zelda/Uncharted/Metal Gear don't actually perform well, despite being critically acclaimed, unlike Mario/GTA.

Nothing performs like GTA and Mario that is more interesting since it performs in line with Nintendo hardware .

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

After this month, streams of the Wii and PS4 will cross and the Wii won't look back for a long time, in the US.

The PS4 doesn't need to be outselling the Wii to be a smashing success. The Wii is the only console of its kind in the history of gaming, in both its rise and its fall. It's not a proper benchmark for success.

The PS2, on the other hand, which the PS4 is currently outpacing (and which the Xbone is neck-and-neck with), is.

 

[Ty4on]

The PS4 doesn't need to be outselling the Wii to be a smashing success. The Wii is the only console of its kind in the history of gaming, in both its rise and its fall. It's not a proper benchmark for success.

The PS2, on the other hand, which the PS4 is currently outpacing (and which the Xbone is neck-and-neck with), is.

Really? Because the PS2 sold more in July 2007. It is outpacing it due to better supply and a bigger launch.

 

[cakely]

I think the main reason for all the discussion about the health of the console market, with all due respect, is people point to a company swimming red ink, abandoning hardware and scaling back key features as "winning" something.

I think you can safely take winning out of quotes when you're outselling your closest competitor 2-1.

 

[Xilium]

That list is really out of date UC2 and UC3 have sold more than that .



Nothing performs like GTA and Mario that is more interesting since it performs in line with Nintendo hardware .

The franchise as a whole is at 19M (I believe), so you can just use that number in place of all the Uncharted games on the list.

 

[Version 3.0]

But how do you explain Xbone exclusives outright performing PS4 ones when their install base is smaller?

That's actually a defining factor of under-performing systems: the sales of games constrict into a handful of titles due to a small demographic of people with very similar interests.

On an extremely successful system, you don't see high attach rates for even the most successful games. Instead, you see a swell across the board, as the highly varied demographic raises the bar for games across genres.

Right now, neither the PS4 nor XB1 really fits either of those descriptions, but clearly one is trending one way, and the other is trending the opposite.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Really? Because the PS2 sold more in July 2007. It is outpacing it due to better supply and a bigger launch.

I don't know why you would fixate on what a console sells during its first July.

We don't know why the PS4 is outpacing the PS2. Better supply is the reason for the bigger launch. We'll have a better grasp of how the two consoles are likely to stack up after the holidays.

 

[Mysterious]

Neither MS or Sony have that many titles that break 5M. That's a lot harder to do than people seem to realize. Anyway, not the most accurate but good enough for the discussion at hand.

X360 Best Sellers

PS3 Best Sellers

As I found out yesterday, if you parse out the 1st party sales of both systems, you'll find that they aren't too far apart in total 1st party sales (for games over 1M anyway).

So going by that list:

Xbox 360:
Kinect Adventures: 16.95 million
Halo 3: 14.5 million
Halo: Reach: 4.79 million
Halo 3 ODST: 3 million
Halo Wars: 1 million
Gears of War: 5 million
Gears of War 2: 5 million
Gears of War 3: 3 million
Fable II: 3.5 million
Forza Motorsport 2: 2.7 million
Forza Motorsport 3: 2 million
Uno: 2 million
Crackdown: 1.5 million
Perfect Dark Zero: 1.5 million
Trials HD: 1.29 million
Viva Piñata: 1 million
Total: 68.73 units

I was going to go through the PS3 list, but it looks woefully out of date (~3M units for COD: Black Ops on PS3 is just lolno).

 

[donny2112]

They have shown incredible diversity in genres and even IP going from gen to gen, something Nintendo and especially Microsoft falter at almost embarrassingly.

Nintendo diversifies quite heavily in genre. They just use the same IP in tons of different genres, so some people confuse that with not having much diversity.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Looking at their overall libraries I really don't see Sony having any diversity advantage over Nintendo or MS. All 3 publish a lot of games in a wide variety of genres.

Nintendo tends to lean more on classic IP, Sony tends to iterate more frequently in a shorter timespan, MS tends to look externally more for production. But in terms of diversity, no one's embarrassing the competition.

I agree that long-term they all cover just about everything that's somewhat fashionable well. But to me it's always looked like Sony takes more risks with their output in a given gen in terms of IP; maybe things change this gen, they probably won't.

It's nothing personal, but just as an example right now Nintendo is only very recently getting into the FPS genre this gen with Splatoon. They still don't have a sim racer of their own, or an open-world GTA-style game. There still hasn't been any plans for a new Mario Tennis or Strikers (I like both), etc.

Meanwhile with Microsoft I just feel like they're maybe too low-key on their smaller titles. I didn't hear anything on BattleBlox or even knew it existed until my nephew showed it to me on their 360, and the game came out last year.

It's extremely fun but that aside, if Sony has the perception of focusing too much on indies I think Microsoft has the perception of focusing too much on AAA, and with their output, almost always just a select few big IP.

So going by that list:

Xbox 360:
Kinect Adventures: 16.95 million

I thought this discussion was regarding core-market games?

 

[Mysterious]

Nintendo diversifies quite heavily in genre. They just use the same IP in tons of different genres, so some people confuse that with not having much diversity.

I can't wait for a story-driven 3D adventure game (like Last of Us or Uncharted) using the Zelda or Metroid IP.

Spoiler

Not sarcasm

 

[Version 3.0]

After this month, streams of the Wii and PS4 will cross and the Wii won't look back for a long time, in the US.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. The Wii's 2nd Christmas was still heavily supply-constrained. If Sony has the supply, they could overtake the Wii again in Q4...maybe. It'll be an interesting end of the year for Sales-Age.

 

[Welfare]

So going by that list:

Xbox 360:
Kinect Adventures: 16.95 million
Halo 3: 14.5 million
Halo: Reach: 4.79 million
Halo 3 ODST: 3 million
Halo Wars: 1 million
Gears of War: 5 million
Gears of War 2: 5 million
Gears of War 3: 3 million
Fable II: 3.5 million
Forza Motorsport 2: 2.7 million
Forza Motorsport 3: 2 million
Uno: 2 million
Crackdown: 1.5 million
Perfect Dark Zero: 1.5 million
Trials HD: 1.29 million
Viva Piñata: 1 million
Total: 68.73 units

I was going to go through the PS3 list, but it looks woefully out of date (~3M units for COD: Black Ops on PS3 is just lolno).

Both of them are out of date. If I can find the pic from before Halo 4 came out, I believe Reach was over 9 million, and ODST over 6 million.

 

[donny2112]

I can't wait for a story-driven 3D adventure game (like Last of Us or Uncharted) using the Zelda or Metroid IP.

Spoiler

Not sarcasm

Oh, now I get it.

Spoiler

Was about to say that Zelda already fits that, then realized Metroid fits it, too. Then got the joke.

 

[sörine]

SCE:
God of War
GT
Uncharted
TLOU
LBP

MS:
Halo
Gears

You missed some.

Sony:
Crash Bandicoot (3rd party)

MS:
Kinect Adventures

Nintendo:
Super Mario
The Legend of Zelda
Pokémon
Mario Kart
Super Smash Bros
Donkey Kong
Tetris (3rd party)
Wii Sports/Fit/Party/Play
Kirby
Nintendogs
Brain-Age
Animal Crossing
Mario Party
Big Brain Academy
Mario & Sonic Olympics (co-owned)

Also, the best selling LBP game I can find is the original topping out at 4.5m.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

dontcrossthestreams.jpg

3DS, under/over half of PSP July 2008?

Why do I have memories of the Wii being such a high seller in the off months in its first year? How the hell is PS4 tracking higher than the Wii?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Oh, now I get it.

Spoiler

Was about to say that Zelda already fits that, then realized Metroid fits it, too. Then got the joke.

In a way both of them are already story-driven, it's just their narrative style is different than what most are likely used to.

It's...a discussion for another day....

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

Creamsugar numbers?

 

[Papercuts]

Why do I have memories of the Wii being such a high seller in the off months in its first year? How the hell is PS4 tracking higher than the Wii?

The launch itself was enough to propel it super high. Wii still struggled with shortages for awhile leading into the new year.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The franchise as a whole is at 19M (I believe), so you can just use that number in place of all the Uncharted games on the list.

The last numbers we got for UC was 17mllion and that was on April 13, 2012.
It was also the day when they release UC3 GOTY edition .
Either way the numbers out of date and makes no sense using them UC3 sold 3.8 million day 1.
According to your list it did sell anymore copies afterwards .