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[Rated-Rsuperstar]

yes. completely. overwhelmingly. :lol

the game got a shitload of press. and it bombed. dont' blame it on the marketing. sony worked hard on it. i thinkt hey should have released it in holiday, not sure why they waited. pretty dumb.

So if Killzone charts next month with another 200-300k is it still a bomb?

I think a million worldwide is pretty damn good.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

*yawn* So KZ2 is a flop, because it will sell over a million in the USA?
Wow, I love these flops

umad

 

[Halvie]

SFIV numbers please

 

[cartoon_soldier]

As usual the truth is inbetween, not a massive flop, not a huge success, just a good solid hit.

Question is will Sony ever get a game this gen that really breaks out, GT5 probably will be huge but it still shocks me that it taking them over 3 years since launch to get it out.

Its the PS3 fans who keep claiming that one game after another will be the breakout thing Sony has been looking for and quite frankly needs this generation.

 

[Grecco]

Again, if they could cut the price they already would have. They're not punishing people or waiting for the right stage to say it on. Maybe their hand is forced soon, but they might as well hang on at this point.

I think it means the really long generation is true for Sony at least, and I for one couldn't be happier. It's better for games, and it's obvious they can't afford the R&D and launch costs on another console for awhile. 10 year plan ftw!

Agreed. The perfect time for a price cut was at KZs launch. Didnt happen, aint happenning. Sony is happy in third place and just getting to where they make money out of the console

 

[Warm Machine]

False. Killzone as franchise has little meaning to anyone who isn't hardcore into games. For some bizarre reason most people around here seem to believe the majority of people who own these consoles (excluding Wii) read gaming magazines and look at gaming sites all the time. I'm the only hardcore gamer out of my group of friends that own PS3's. They all have the big know franchise games. RE5, Socom, GTA, Madden, COD's. None of them own KZ2.

COD, Madden, GTA are the bedrock of gaming now, doesn't matter if you have a 360 or PS3 you probably have 2 of those 3 games. If you look at sales Killzone 2 is probably right where it is expected to be for a FPS on the console. Socom is probably in formation with its sales launches adjusted. RE5 and KZ2 are paced pretty close as well given the time frame. I don't think KZ2 is a bomb but simply a tragedy of the install base, there is little Sony could have done to get the word out any louder.

 

[Stinkles]

The Wire was not canceled due to low ratings.
It ran its course, finished it stories and ended.

(I always wanted to post on an NPD thread, but fuck if I get down and dirty with the fanboys).

One of these things is Snoop and one of them is Omar.

 

[spwolf]

So if Killzone charts next month with another 200-300k is it still a bomb?

I think a million worldwide is pretty damn good.

i dont think KZ2 will chart in top 10 next month, it will be its 3rd chart month... unless Sony drops the price on PS3.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Its the PS3 fans who keep claiming that one game after another will be the breakout thing Sony has been looking for and quite frankly needs this generation.

Sony just needs a $100 price drop. That's about it.

 

[chubigans]

the game got a shitload of press. and it bombed.

It got a nice amount of press, and it didn't bomb. Press does not equal marketing. Reviews does not equal marketing. Magazine covers do not equal marketing. Cmon man, are you seriously going to tell me Killzone 2 was marketed as well as Halo 3? Seriously?

I found that behavior both hilarious and sociologically interesting. I have yet to find such (convinced) statements myself. I either have those expressing them on ignore or I just miss them for whatever reason.

It's pretty tired and old at this point. No sane person would actually believe a game would pull the PS3 back into sales.

 

[hellclerk]

How is it not? Madworld is an amazing game, and from what I have heard GTA in one of the best handheld games ever made. Neither of them could sell more then 200K? Thats awful.

Has there ever been an M rated DS or Wii game that got into the top 10?

Madworld had terrible advertising. they didn't insinuate any of the violence within the game, which quite honestly is the main draw. still, i expect it to follow standard Wii MO and sell over along period of time. Madworld will have legs. as will GTACW, though to be honest, i think the type of game it was designed as may have turned some people off. there needs to be a demo in the Nintendo Channel...

 

[Stoney Mason]

So is the 619K LTD for KZ2 since its release two months ago a strong figure?

Not a stealth troll, I just want some context and perspective for a AAA titles selling that much for this time of year.

From earlier in the thread.

Some comparison numbers for KZ2...

360
Gears 1 - 1.00m in 3 weeks to ~3.4m 360s
Bioshock - 0.49m in 10 days (0.64m over 40 days) to ~6.1m 360s.
COD4 - 1.57m in 4 weeks to ~7.8m 360s.

PS3
COD4 - 0.44m in 4 weeks to ~2.4m PS3s.
GTAIV - 1.0m in 5 days to ~4.2m PS3s.
MGS4 - 0.74m in 3 weeks to ~4.8m PS3s.
CODW@W - 0.60m in 2 weeks to ~6.1m PS3s.
Killzone 2 - 0.62m in 5 weeks to ~7.2m PS3s

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Killzone 2......the Waterworld of gaming

 

[Barrett2]

Thats probably it. I had a friend tell me the other day (and he was dead serious) that 2K9 was the better baseball game. Its just pure ignorance.

I wonder how much it sold on PS3. All those people who bought the game on PS3 should cut their thumbs off.

You're just jealous because your inferior MLB09 doesn't have the special player quicksand and barrel roll (tm) features.

 

[WinFonda]

First, that's probably not true, Halo Wars did exist outside of the US, and didn't sell terribly either.

It's true if we're to believe the European sales charts. Which is why when I said it I got responses like, "This is the NDP sales results, please don't question our blanket statements that Halo Wars is selling better than Killzone 2." Never mind the fact that they're pretty much dead even in North America anyway.

Secondly considering that Killzone 2 was announed at E3 2005 and a constant hype stream has been building up here during that period, you'd expect it to sell more than say, Call of Duty: World At War PS3, a 3rd party annual release title that also sold millions on 360.

Call of Duty is a huge franchise that is big precisely because of the annual holiday releases. If selling less than that means being a loser, there's a lot of losers.

Finally, all the people saying that the sales were good considering that KZ2 is a new IP: No, first, it's a sequel, and a well hyped one too, with nearly 3 years of pre-release marketing, secondly, proper new IPs like Gears of War and Bioshock outsold it, with a lower 360 userbase at the time too, so that's not a valid reason either.

Killzone 2 is performing well. And here's the kicker, and it may sound like a shocker to you, but Bioshock and Gears of War were big performers too. But at the same time, we're not in the holiday months, and Gears of War also had the benefit of very little direct competition. Not to take away from the success, but you can't exactly ignore the environments that helped produce those results.

But again, it seems many peoples measurement of defining failure is by pitting one games success against another games greater success. That just doesn't add up. We've seen games bomb and fail on the PS3 and X360 and I can say quite unequivocally that KZ2 is not in the same territory.

Now you can argue perception, expectations and all that other stuff but without any actual proof one way or another, it's somewhat pointless. The baseline results when you compare Halo Wars to Killzone 2 in North America are pretty much the same. Both games had something working to their advantage or disadvantage, but one is being bandied about as a failure and the other a success. And this is no doubt exacerbated by the fact that KZ2's launch was basically split into 2 NPD results. The real elephant in the room is that both games performed well, and that's just not conducive to the system wars.

Watch, in a few weeks from now, Sony and Microsoft will release PR figures and tout that their games sold 3 million copies, and the same groups of people will start arguing that one was shipped and the other was sold. It's a never-ending cycle of stupid.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Well, valve spent $10 million on marketing it. Just for that particular note.

When I was working in Chicago last year, I saw billboard ads everywhere. Valve did well with it.

 

[Wollan]

Killzone 2......the Waterworld of gaming

Waterworld was a bad film, your analogy is erroneous.

 

[AniHawk]

Killzone 2......the Waterworld of gaming

Shenmue still holds that honor.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

You're just jealous because your inferior MLB09 doesn't have the special player quicksand and barrel roll (tm) features.

When I was walking to work I actually honestly totally truthfully saw someone walking with a PS3 version of MLB09.

Swear. I was like "Wait whuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
t?"

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Killzone 2......the Waterworld of gaming

Killzone 2 is great. I have no doubt they took a bath financially, but let's not forget the final product is legitimately really good.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Agreed. The perfect time for a price cut was at KZs launch. Didnt happen, aint happenning. Sony is happy in third place and just getting to where they make money out of the console

E3 would be the next place to announce a price drop. I think they will.



Also does anyone have Killzone 1 LTD numbers compared to KZ2's 1 million LTD?

 

[overthehill99]

People really think that most of the Halo Wars sales didn't come from the fact that 'Halo" was on the cover? :\

 

[GitarooMan]

It got a nice amount of press, and it didn't bomb. Press does not equal marketing. Reviews does not equal marketing. Magazine covers do not equal marketing. Cmon man, are you seriously going to tell me Killzone 2 was marketed as well as Halo 3? Seriously?

I did see that bullet commerical a ton, although that was a terrible ill-conceived commercial for the game (if I didn't know what it was, I would have been like WTF game is this and why do I care?)

 

[lowlylowlycook]

*yawn* So KZ2 is a flop, because it will sell over a million in the USA?
Wow, I love these flops

That's last gen thinking. Two million is the new 500k.

 

[pakkit]

This thread claims its first victim, Nintex. ;_; Stay strong soldier, I'll miss your fake news conferences.

Also, requesting MadWorld and GTA DS numbers out of interest and the knowledge that, regardless of the outcome, meltdowns will ensue.

 

[Barrett2]

*yawn* So KZ2 is a flop, because it will sell over a million in the USA?
Wow, I love these flops

Most games don't cost $40 million+ to make. KZ2 did, hence, higher expectations.

It may surprise you to learn that Transformers 2 could net over $150 million at the box office and be a failure, whereas Let The Right One In is a huge success by making only $10 million.

Relative sales are relative.

 

[Kilrogg]

L4D was an absolute masterpiece in how commercial a shooter it is.

There are very little cinematic sequences that get in the way of repeated playthroughs. You don't have to deal with Micheal Bay-style cinematic sequences with bad voice-acting every time you start a new game. The zombie movie cliches are a blessing in disguise in that players can understand a great deal of exposition without it being forced fed. The story-telling is done through character chatter, the environment, and the player's interaction with the AI director. People will sooner talk about "that moment when that tank came out of no where" rather than some canned B-movie cutscene since they are playing an important part in dictating the story and the action. The game also concentrates on social interaction. Graphics and cinematics will age but interacting with other players at such an intimate level will never get old.

All of this leads, to an easy to digest game that get more, rather than less, valuable the more it is played. This leads to very strong word of mouth in my experience with the game.

I don't think I've ever seen the word 'commercial' being used in a positive way. I'm not being sarcastic though.

Love your posts <3. Keep it up!

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

People are seriously arguing that KZ2 had the proper marketing? Good grief.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

When I was walking to work I actually honestly totally truthfully saw someone walking with a PS3 version of MLB09.

wut

 

[Bernbaum]

From earlier in the thread.

Cheers, however, all of those games except for GTA were released in Q4. What other high-profile titles had a Q1 launch this gen, not including the current months sales figures?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Killzone 2 is performing well. And here's the kicker, and it may sound like a shocker to you, but Bioshock and Gears of War were big performers too. But at the same time, we're not in the holiday months, and Gears of War also had the benefit of very little direct competition. Not to take away from the success, but you can't exactly ignore the environments that helped produce those results.

But again, it seems many peoples measurement of defining failure is by pitting one games success against another games greater success. That just doesn't add up. We've seen games bomb and fail on the PS3 and X360 and I can say quite unequivocally that KZ2 is not in the same territory.

Now you can argue perception, expectations and all that other stuff but without any actual proof one way or another, it's somewhat pointless. The baseline results when you compare Halo Wars to Killzone 2 in North America are pretty much the same. Both games had something working to their advantage or disadvantage, but one is being bandied about as a failure and the other a success. And this is no doubt exacerbated by the fact that KZ2's launch was basically split into 2 NPD results. The real elephant in the room is that both games performed well, and that's just not conducive to the system wars.

Watch, in a few weeks from now, Sony and Microsoft will release PR figures and tout that their games sold 3 million copies, and the same groups of people will start arguing that one was shipped and the other was sold. It's a never-ending cycle of stupid.

By your logic, though, we shouldn't be comparing game to game, we should be looking at its relative success, which would bring us to development and marketing costs and if KZ2 is selling the same as HW, it's not good because I don't think anyone would argue that KZ2 had a LOT more money invested in it on both of those fronts.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Cheers, however, all of those games except for GTA were released in Q4.

Metal Gear wasn't.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

wut

Whoops. 2K9. The bad one. Which is the bad one? It was that one. The one that spells out "Major League Baseball". Which one is that?

 

[Saint10118]

When I was walking to work I actually honestly totally truthfully saw someone walking with a PS3 version of MLB09.

Swear. I was like "Wait whuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
t?"

:lol That reminds me thanks for recommending The Best Show - total crack addict for it now.

 

[Blame!]

It got a nice amount of press, and it didn't bomb. Press does not equal marketing. Reviews does not equal marketing. Magazine covers do not equal marketing. Cmon man, are you seriously going to tell me Killzone 2 was marketed as well as Halo 3? Seriously?

are you seriously suggesting that magazine covers and media coverage does not help market your game? wow. lets just maybe agree to disagree then.

it bomba by my definition because of how much of an investment sony put into killzone2. are you seriously saying sony is going to make their money back selling only 2 million worldwide :lol im being generous btw.

and no, kz2 was not marketed as well as halo3. but cmon are you seriously suggesting that by the time you're on your third halo game that the fucking thing doesnt just automatically market itself as a cultural phenom??

get with it.

 

[alr1ght]

People are seriously arguing that KZ2 had the proper marketing? Good grief.

they had an opportunity and the commercial ready-made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5f364-qdT8

would have been huge.

 

[Bernbaum]

Metal Gear wasn't.

Woops, missed that one.

And holy fuck! Is that Dr Manhattan having a penis-fight with the Hulk?!

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

:lol That reminds me thanks for recommending The Best Show - total crack addict for it now.

YES!!!!

You are SO welcome. Keep an ear out for me next week. I'm calling in for the Best/Worst of the 20th Century.

WELCOME TO THE BEST SHOW TEAM.

 

[Warm Machine]

At $40 return on a sold copy Sony needs to sell 1.5 million KZ2s to cover the rumored 60 million costs. Not much really especially considering they don't pay a licensing fee to themselves.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

People really think that most of the Halo Wars sales didn't come from the fact that 'Halo" was on the cover? :\

Of course it does. First non Blizzard RTS I've ever bought. It's fucking Halo dude! :lol :lol Anything that adds to the mythos of the Halo universe, a lot of us will buy.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

are you seriously suggesting that magazine covers and media coverage does not help market your game? wow. lets just maybe agree to disagree then.

it bomba by my definition because of how much of an investment sony put into killzone2. are you seriously saying sony is going to make their money back selling only 2 million worldwide :lol im being generous btw.

and no, kz2 was not marketed as well as halo3. but cmon are you seriously suggesting that by the time you're on your third halo game that the fucking thing doesnt just automatically market itself as a cultural phenom??

get with it.

why so serious

 

[TTP]

From earlier in the thread.

360
Gears 1 - 1.00m in 3 weeks to ~3.4m 360s
Bioshock - 0.49m in 10 days (0.64m over 40 days) to ~6.1m 360s.
COD4 - 1.57m in 4 weeks to ~7.8m 360s.

COD4 did just +570K in 4 weeks compared to Gears 1 in 3 weeks despite selling to double the user base? FAILURE!!!

 

[overthehill99]

At $40 return on a sold copy Sony needs to sell 1.5 million KZ2s to cover the rumored 60 million costs. Not much really especially considering they don't pay a licensing fee to themselves.

Didn't it go over 1.5 worldwide?

 

[Kusagari]

they had an opportunity and the commercial ready-made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5f364-qdT8

would have been huge.

This is so true. That would have been so much better as a commercial than the stupid slow-mo bullet.

 

[manueldelalas]

Wow everything down.

I expected K2 to not chart, basing myself in the LBP way of charting. I was wrong, it appears, but still the sales for that game are not impressive.

Halo Wars is also dissappointing, 600k sales for one of the biggest franchises in the world is not that good.

RE5 sales are really impressive.

Wii Play must be the game that has been the longest time in consecutive months on the top ten. When does the Wii Fit > PS3 countdown begins?

 

[chubigans]

are you seriously suggesting that magazine covers and media coverage does not help market your game? wow. lets just maybe agree to disagree then.

It DOES help, but one shouldn't substitute magazine covers for billboards/commercials/branding, don't you agree?

but cmon are you seriously suggesting that by the time you're on your third halo game that the fucking thing doesnt just automatically market itself as a cultural phenom??

And yet Microsoft spent all that money on branding foods/setting up midnight launch parties/tons of media advertising on the game anyways. I wonder why that is.

 

[Stoney Mason]

On a side note I also find it odd that Sony fans were knowledgable enough to buy more copies of the better Sony baseball game but still Killzone 2 is a massive secret to the PS3 base some are arguing.

 

[Raist]

People are seriously arguing that KZ2 had the proper marketing? Good grief.

Yes, KZ2 had an amazing marketing, as well as tons of hype. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[Rolf NB]

Its the PS3 fans who keep claiming that one game after another will be the breakout thing Sony has been looking for and quite frankly needs this generation.

When did you start seeing them?

 

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by chubigans:


I find im' torn on this argument. On one hand I agree Sony continually screws themself with their shitty PS3 marketing... but on the other hand, how do so many 360 owners know to buy L4D? How do so many 360 owners know to buy Fable, Gears, etc...??

XBox Live + NXE + Friends List. It's the perfect storm of just toomuchery, and one can only give in to the rolling tide.