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[mr_bishiuk]

[NDS] 423,150
[WII] 338,278
[GBA] 80,554
[NGC] 10,728

331k NDS POKEMON DIAMOND VERSION
314k WII MARIO PARTY 8
238k NDS POKEMON PEARL VERSION
227k WII PLAY W/ REMOTE

that's a enormous truckload of money for Ninty... they are spitting out impressing numbers every single month and that's so so so funny
I can't wait to see December's numbers! (and that's a lot of time...)

Will Decembers be much better as they seem to be selling everything they can ship already??!! (Hardware wise at least)

 

[D3MO]

Im alittle suprised to see PS2 and GBA still selling that much

The PS2 is the best video game console in terms of software...literaly.

GBA is still the standard of the good 'ol handheld gaming (no gimicks like the DS...and no media funct...err...homebrew like the PSP) GBA is the epitome of a handheld device.

 

[test_account]

The PS2 is the best video game console in terms of software...literaly.

GBA is still the standard of the good 'ol handheld gaming (no gimicks like the DS...and no media funct...err...homebrew like the PSP) GBA is the epitome of a handheld device.

Ye, both are great systems, but they are like 6-7 years old and still sell so much. Amazing job by Nintendo and Sony

 

[Deku]

I doubt that is true, because they earn a greater amount on each higher priced game sold then they do on the lower ones. That is why the NPD traditionally goes that route, but for bragging rights GAF goes with pure numbers. When God of War sells a million units at 50 dollars it is a hell of a lot more signifigant to both the developer and the publisher then it selling a million more at 20 dollars. It is why they put the greatest hits games in puke green boxes and do not advertise them on tv. Development costs are an important thing to look at when considering the success of these products and revenues, but the whole units thing is just for comparing ball size.

Units sold is more important because it more closely reflects what a publisher is actually making. Comparing revenues of console titles to portable titles and saying AHA, look at how console software kicked ass last month, it makes absolutely no sense given the price differential. Revenues is for all intents and purposes meaningless unless you know the cost structure of each individual publisher.

Talking about units sold however is a common denominator that's far easier to compare between platforms with different pricing structure. (not just console/portables but console to console)

And heck I'm not even disputing the fact that console software sold very well.

 

[neptunes]

The PS2 is the best video game console in terms of software...literaly.

GBA is still the standard of the good 'ol handheld gaming (no gimicks like the DS...and no media funct...err...homebrew like the PSP) GBA is the epitome of a handheld device.

The NDS is on track to blow the GBA out of the water(in terms of sales), and will probably live longer too.

just imagine when nintendo finally drops the price to $99 US dollars? which probably wone be for another year or so, but still...

 

[speculawyer]

Yeah, this wouldn't look suspicious at all. Where does one buy 250,000 copies of Shadowrun anyway?

Shadowrun is a MSFT produced title. Why not just cut out the middle man and just fudge some fake sales numbers. The SEC probably will never notice and even if they did, it would take years for the SEC to do anything and in the end they'd just fine MSFT $10Million or so.

No, just no. Even the buying of 3rd party games conspiracy theory could get MSFT into huge trouble and spawn shareholder class action suits.

 

[Tobor]

Shadowrun is a MSFT produced title. Why not just cut out the middle man and just fudge some fake sales numbers. The SEC probably will never notice and even if they did, it would take years for the SEC to do anything and in the end they'd just fine MSFT $10Million or so.

No, just no. Even the buying of 3rd party games conspiracy theory could get MSFT into huge trouble and spawn shareholder class action suits.

Sarcasm, Speculawyer. Savor it. I was heckling the crazy person.

 

[OmegaRed]

:lol

 

[speculawyer]

Sarcasm, Speculawyer. Savor it. I was heckling the crazy person.

I know you were, I was just piling on the original crazy conspiracy theory.

 

[Tobor]

I know you were, I was just piling on the original crazy conspiracy theory.

Ahh, my bad. Nice pile on then. :lol

 

[SuperBanjo]

Man, I just can't get over those Mario Party sales. Over 300k in just few days? I can't even imagine how much of an impact a more prominent game like Mario Galaxy is going to have.

 

[alistairw]

The PS2 is the best video game console in terms of software...literaly.

I think you're misusing (and misspelling) the word "literally".

 

[_Alkaline_]

The thing is that 3rd parties Wii titles that 1. are well-advertised, 2. are exclusive and 3. suit the controller, WILL do well on Wii. Rayman and Red Steel are proof of this, and well-selling titles like Sonic and Tiger Woods are also. It's mostly third-parties fault the their Wii titles don't sell well.

 

[NomarTyme]

Nice REALLY nice!

 

[C4Lukins]

Units sold is more important because it more closely reflects what a publisher is actually making. Comparing revenues of console titles to portable titles and saying AHA, look at how console software kicked ass last month, it makes absolutely no sense given the price differential. Revenues is for all intents and purposes meaningless unless you know the cost structure of each individual publisher.

Talking about units sold however is a common denominator that's far easier to compare.

And heck I'm not even disputing the fact that console software sold very well.

It does make sense. Look at it this way. DS game Joe sells 3 million units at 20 dollars, and a 60 dollar Wii/360/PS3 game sells 1 million units (pretending that Wii games sell for 60). They are bringing in the exact same revenue. Unit sales are not signifigant at all from a business standpoint in this model. What is signifigant is development costs, plus production costs, and then figuiring that into revenue, but the NPD does not track that.

I am not trying to devalue the importance of portables in this whole matter. With fiscal reports though, they report revenue and not unit sales because one is much more relavent in the grand scheme of things.

 

[BorkBork]

:lol I like Bishop as Venture.

 

[Burai]

Microsoft have really got to get that price down.

The problem they'll have come Christmas is that the Wii is very quickly becoming the must-have, ubiquitous console.

In the handheld race, the PSP can't hope to ever catch up with the DS now because the DS has become the de-facto standard. It doesn't matter how cheap the PSP gets, how much more powerful it is or even how good the games are any more, because the DS has got the must-have software and the must-have USP.

What Microsoft don't want is for the Wii to become so synonymous with video games that by the time they get the price down, it's all for nothing. Because it's going to get to the stage where Nintendo will be able to sell the Wii for more than an Xbox 360 and get away with it because the games, brand and USP are so strong.

360 is going to have a great winter, no doubting that. But on current form, Nintendo are going to have a phenomenal one without parallel in the history of the industry and without a price drop, the console race is going to start running away from Xbox 360.

 

[Joust Williams]

It must be really hard to make games that are as good as the gold standards Mario Party 8 (69% GR) and Wii Play (59%). Anyway, great numbers for CnC3 and Forza 2.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think Microsoft was counting on Mario and Smash to be 2008 titles. If they let the Wii tie up with them this winter, they're not going to be in a great position to get #1 back.

 

[junkwaffle]

 

[civilstrife]

Summer and Fall should be interesting.

I think Nintendo's Big 3 should carry them nicely into the Holiday season.
Halo will definately melt some faces.

I really don't know how GTA 4 will do. Obviously it'll sell to existing 360 and PS3 owners, but I don't think it will sell systems in any major way. Just a feeling.

 

[titiklabingapat]

It must be really hard to make games that are as good as the gold standards Mario Party 8 (69% GR) and Wii Play (59%). Anyway, great numbers for CnC3 and Forza 2.

You forgot Wii Sports at 70%.

 

[Joust Williams]

True, true. Good thing there's two systems and a PC out there for me.

 

[Tobor]

Awe inspiring as always. :lol

 

[Deku]

It does make sense. Look at it this way. DS game Joe sells 3 million units at 20 dollars, and a 60 dollar Wii/360/PS3 game sells 1 million units (pretending that Wii games sell for 60). They are bringing in the exact same revenue. Unit sales are not signifigant at all from a business standpoint in this model. What is signifigant is development costs, plus production costs, and then figuiring that into revenue, but the NPD does not track that.

Wii titles usually sell for $10 less, and DS /PSP titles have far greater standard deviation while almost all PS3 titles sell at a set price, $60. High variability in pricing means one publisher might push the upper limits of pricing while another will aim for a more budget price. Each game has their own models and break even points. You completely ignore one major thing , the development cost, which is amortized over each unit sold and isn't all that relevant with revenues, because it is usually limited by collusive limits placed by the hardware manufacturer to not go over a certain price range.

There's a reason why other chart tracking services report units and not revenues. Just because NPD does it doesn't make it logical. It's an incoherent system that probably made sense once in the past when the goods they were tracking were more homogeneous.



[

 

[Haunted]

Very nice idea, junk. :lol

That's a nice thread to wake up to (after seeing only incomplete numbers last night) I only read sonycowboy's post and the first page - Nintendo really is driving this industry forward.

 

[Borys]

Can you imagine a future where there is only the PC and the Wii?

I KNOW I CAN!

 

[Pureauthor]

It does make sense. Look at it this way. DS game Joe sells 3 million units at 20 dollars, and a 60 dollar Wii/360/PS3 game sells 1 million units (pretending that Wii games sell for 60). They are bringing in the exact same revenue. Unit sales are not signifigant at all from a business standpoint in this model. What is signifigant is development costs, plus production costs, and then figuiring that into revenue, but the NPD does not track that.

Exactly - they bring in the exact same revenue, yet one sold 3 times more than the other, and is likely cheaper to develop. (Although 3 times cheaper is of course in question, nvm the fact that most DS games retail for USD 30 anyway.)

Revenue would lead you to believe that both games perform equally well (without contextual knowledge that handheld games are cheaper), which is of course erroneous, where as units sold allow you to understand exactly how well each game performed.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Summer and Fall should be interesting.

I think Nintendo's Big 3 should carry them nicely into the Holiday season.
Halo will definately melt some faces.

I really don't know how GTA 4 will do. Obviously it'll sell to existing 360 and PS3 owners, but I don't think it will sell systems in any major way. Just a feeling.

Guitar Hero 3, too. It would be interesting if it becomes the Wii's GTA iV 360 port(in that the cheaper console will probably benefit the most from a multiplatform mega franchise).

 

[909er]

Guitar Hero 3, too. It would be interesting if it becomes the Wii's GTA iV 360 port(in that the cheaper console will probably benefit the most from a multiplatform mega franchise).

I think that might be difficult, since there will be alot of ppl on the 360 that already have the guitar, making GH3 more affordable for them.

 

[C4Lukins]

Wii titles usually sell for $10 less, and DS /PSP titles have far greater standard deviation while almost all PS3 titles sell at a set price, $60. High variability in pricing means one publisher might push the upper limits of pricing while another will aim for a more budget price. Each game has their own models and break even points. You completely ignore one major thing , the development cost, which is amortized over each unit sold and isn't all that relevant with revenues, because it is usually limited by collusive limits placed by the hardware manufacturer to not go over a certain price range.

There's a reason why other chart tracking services report units and not revenues. Just because NPD does it doesn't make it logical. It's an incoherent system that probably made sense once in the past when the goods they were tracking were more homogeneous.



[

It is completely logical. Just take the most basic yet extreme example. I sell one million cars, you sell 100 million hamburgers, what is signifigant about those two figuires? It is not the unit sales. It never will be.

 

[HolyCheck]

*MAGIC*

WOW. i lol'd.

 

[Stop It]

/thread

Right, bet time! bet PS3 will outsell 360 on a monthly basis once this year, September, only, thats it, not Wii, which will streak away and win month on month this year however.

Mods, feel free to create the odds for me.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

/thread

Right, bet time! bet PS3 will outsell 360 on a monthly basis once this year, September, only, thats it, not Wii, which will streak away and win month on month this year however.

Mods, feel free to create the odds for me.

I don't even understand what you just said

 

[Zynx]

I think Harry Potter has a great shot at being the third party Wii breakout title. I hope quality doesn't suffer due to it being rushed to match the movie release date.

EA (of all companies) has a fair case there but those other comapnies I don't think really have put forth their best efforts by a long shot.

The problem I see now is too many companies are scrambling to get product out and will inevitably end up rushing it to market.

Ubi Soft got way higher sales for Red Steel and Rayman than they honestly deserved.

Yep.

They will be even bigger winners when first party releases like Blue Dragon, Halo 3, and Mass Effect come out where they get the entire share of profits instead of just the license fee.

Wait, you think Blue Dragon will make back the (probably expensive) investment put into it? It was funded to go after the JP hardcore gamer - but that market is now quite small, or their tastes have changed.




Edit: To jump into the revenue/units discussion - what matters to publishers is the per-unit gross margin, multiplied by units sold. Then, from that, they expense the development and marketing costs.

On the DS and PSP side, per unit margins are a lot smaller. License/manufacturing fees are almost the same as consoles, but retail prices are much lower. So you need to sell a lot more units to get the same gross revenue. However, development costs are lower, so there's less 'fixed costs' to recoup.
Wii is kind of nice - license/manufacturing fees are about par, but development costs are lower (actually with the crappy ports being thrown around, probably MUCH lower). However retail prices are only at $50 or less, so gross margins aren't as great as:
PS3/360 - publishers LOVE the $60 pricing - if you listen in on conference calls and stuff, they call it "premium pricing". Since manufacturers usually take about 10, and retailers take about 10, on a $50 game the gross is about $30 for the publisher, while on a $60 game, it's around 33% more. Each 3 games sold brings in the same gross as 4 from last-gen (or Wii). But of course devcosts are higher, especially with all the HD art.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It is completely logical. Just take the most basic yet extreme example. I sell one million cars, you sell 100 million hamburgers, what is signifigant about those two figuires? It is not the unit sales. It never will be.

The difference being, of course, that you're comparing video game to video game to cars and hamburgers.

A closer comparison might be fast food hamburgers to gourmet hamburgers. And then, yes, units matter a whole lot more.

 

[USD]

/thread

Right, bet time! bet PS3 will outsell 360 on a monthly basis once this year, September, only, thats it, not Wii, which will streak away and win month on month this year however.

Mods, feel free to create the odds for me.

You do realize that Halo 3 hits in September? How is PS3 going to manage that?

 

[civilstrife]

I think Harry Potter has a great shot at being the third party Wii breakout title. I hope quality doesn't suffer due to it being rushed to match the movie release date.

Hope springs eternal.

 

[JDSN]

:lol :lol :lol

Junk is the kind of user most gaffers want to be, while we are stuck with making photoshops and repetitive one-liners, he was been able to express himself mostly through his art.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Right, bet time! bet PS3 will outsell 360 on a monthly basis once this year, September...

Outlook not so good.

 

[Deku]

It is completely logical. Just take the most basic yet extreme example. I sell one million cars, you sell 100 million hamburgers, what is signifigant about those two figuires? It is not the unit sales. It never will be.

Different industries. Let's keep it int he same industry.

Here's an illustration for you.

A $30 DS game isn't going to cost the same to develop as a $60 game. Being generous here and assuming a $30 game only costs half as much to make as a full blown console game. In this case, Both will probably have very similar break-even points however in terms of units sold.

The $30 game that captures 100k in sales would generate $3 million in revenues, where as a $60 game would need to sell twice what the $30 game sold in revenues ($6 million) to hit the same break-even point of 100k units.

By your revenue analysis, you'd say the $60 game was profitable at $3 million when in fact it hasn't turned in a dime yet.

The example I gave assume a marginal 'on the fence' situation between profitability and loss. But you can easily see a scenario where we could also be talking about the 'magnitude' of the profits generated and that is hugely important as well.

 

[civilstrife]

Now THIS is how to make a Press Release. :lol

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=4p4u3U93Fb9LpjdwdV3F3r_S1DX0jtf_&page=

A Message From Peach
Jun 14, 2007

Oh, my! All this attention is enough to make a girl blush!

As a princess I’m used to being adored, but this is just too much! I know I’m probably sounding like a broken record, but once again my friends at the NPD Group are telling me that Wii and Nintendo DS finished May as the most popular systems in the United States.

Thanks to everyone for your wonderful support! Nintendo couldn’t have made it back to the top without you. You’re all Mario-caliber heroes in my book.

Now I’m not one to brag, but some of the top games of this month happen to feature someone very pretty and popular – me! I’m talking about the super-fun Mario Party 8 and Super Paper Mario for Wii. Sure, Mario gets top billing, but from where I sit (on my throne), I’d say he’s earned it. Besides, my own game on Nintendo DS, Super Princess Peach, is still selling strong, showing that a girl can do anything she puts her mind to.

I think all my Super Princess Peach fans would have just as much fun working to earn their Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree. I’m not in that one, but don’t worry, I’m not going anywhere. Be sure to watch for me in my super-stylish soccer gear in Mario Strikers Charged, which arrives on Wii on July 30. I can’t wait!

Kisses!

Peach

 

[Jammy]

Holy crap! Kudos to Microsoft on the great software sales. Kudos to Nintendo for selling nearly 400,000 Wiis (and crazy DS sales) in the N.A. continent in the usually slow month of May. And kudos to Sony for... well, their PSP is finally showing legs.

I don't know what's been going on in this thread past page 7, but users like Cerrius, Revelations, etc. have just cemented themselves as damn JOKE POSTERS. Seriously, you guys aren't thinking nor are you looking at the gaming surroundings right now.

360 third party software sales are good because *gasp* it HAS big third party games! The reason it has these games is because 1) 360 was out a year earlier 2) The userbase is bigger than its competition's!

You put 360's bigger third party games on the Wii and they will sell well, too. Maybe not AS well, but they will pull big numbers regardless. Put out GRAW 2 on Wii and it will sell a few hundred thousand. Put out Guitar Hero 2 on Wii and it will sell several hundred thousand.

BUT HERE'S THE THING: Devs, don't pull this "late port" BS. If Guitar Hero 2 comes out on the SAME DAY for Wii as the 360 version does, they should sell comparably. The same goes with Katamari, etc. EA, YOU ARE LUCKY WITH TIGER WOODS, but that's because the game was advertised and advertised well. If Rock Band sells much worse on Wii, credit that to the late release date.

The other thing fools like Revelations seem to forget is that YOU DON'T NEED TO SELL 600,000 OF X GAME FOR IT TO BE A SUCCESS ON WII! Trauma Center and Cooking Mama are two wonderful examples of that. Trauma Center for Wii is quickly becoming one of, if not Atlus' BEST SELLING GAMES EVER. Yet it has only sold like 200,000 in the U.S... *whoa* </Bill and Ted> Cooking Mama and Majesco's other small budget games don't put up huge numbers, but they rake in nice profits for the company, and like others have said, Majesco credited their 30% profits increase to the Wii already. If a GRAW 2 on Wii doesn't perform as well on Wii because the Wii doesn't have an overly huge trigger-happy fanbase as the 360 does, Ubi-Soft will still make a buttload of cash because it will probably be a damned PSP port!

Why is this? The last generation graphics technology that you clowns all seem to hate! You notice it when you're playing a game, but you don't notice it when it comes to talking about sales! I said "Wow"

Spoiler

at your ignorance!

If you put a big third party title on the Wii it will sell. If you release it at the same time as its other versions, it will sell comparably. You will make more profit off of the Wii version because of how assy you made it look. Congrats!

"Bububu... RE4 only has sold 65,000 in Japan so far!" That's a port of a two and a half year old game.

"Bububu... Trauma Center hasn't even sold half a million!" It's a remake and it's still a huge seller for the company.

"Bububu... There's no third party games at all on the Wii best-sellers list!" When was the last time there was a third party game of note for the Wii?

"Bububu... Even in March they didn't put up huge numbers!" Tiger Woods Wii easily outsold its other two versions by far. Sonic and the Secret Rings easily outsold Sonic the Hedgehog by far.

Red Steel and Rayman: RR were million sellers because they were exclusive and notable for the system. Wait to see Manhunt 2's sales or Guitar Hero 3's sales (if it comes out at the same time as the others) or Madden's sales or Boogie's sales or NiGHTS' sales or whatever to at least make DECENT discussions as to why you think Wii software is performing the way it is.

 

[Pureauthor]

Now THIS is how to make a Press Release. :lol

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=4p4u3U93Fb9LpjdwdV3F3r_S1DX0jtf_&page=

What the... :lol

 

[Mike Works]

oh man, i was looking through my saved animated GIF's to find something new to edit for this month's NPD thread and i found the high res version of the iwata v kutaragi resevoire dogs gif, which i never posted before. i totally forgot to post it when kutaragi resigned, so i'll put it in here (partially as a stress test against tinypic to see how long before it goes down) while i work on a new GIF

 

[titiklabingapat]

Now THIS is how to make a Press Release. :lol

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=4p4u3U93Fb9LpjdwdV3F3r_S1DX0jtf_&page=

It's like a cat playing with the corpse of a captured mouse.:lol

 

[imastalker co.]

even with the levels of domination that we're seeing with DS, you can't really say that western devs are making good exclusives for the system. for some mysterious unknown reason, they just ignore DS it seems.

i can definitely see this being the case with Wii. i think most western developers will just be content with whatever market share the 360+PS3 can come up, and bust out a PC port for icing on the cake. im pretty sure they'll just opt to go this route instead of making exclusive Wii games.

i realize that western developers mind set is sorta of stuck in making games with ultimate graphics (for the most part), but could western developers really be so intent on making HD games, that they'd continue to ignore Wii even if its market share was twice as big as 360+PS3 combined?

i could see that causing some devs/publishers to blink an eye, but yet again, ignore it anyway considering how they treat the DS.

 

[titiklabingapat]

even with the levels of domination that we're seeing with DS, you can't really say that western devs are making good exclusives for the system. for some mysterious unknown reason, they just ignore DS it seems.

i can definitely see this being the case with Wii. i think most western developers will just be content with whatever market share the 360+PS3 can come up, and bust out a PC port for icing on the cake. im pretty sure they'll just opt to go this route instead of making exclusive Wii games.

i realize that western developers mind set is sorta of stuck in making games with ultimate graphics (for the most part), but could western developers really be so intent on making HD games, that they'd continue to ignore Wii even if its market share was twice as big as 360+PS3 combined?

i could see that causing some devs/publishers to blink an eye, but yet again, ignore it anyway considering how they treat the DS.

I don't see it the same with the Wii. Western devs have always focused on home consoles, and the portables have always been regarded as a sort of second rate platform to consoles.

It's just the culture. Western culture tend to emphasize the home, and being less mobile while the Japanese clearly likes being able to carry things around. It's also probably a reason why internet use via cellphones is more prevalent in Japan than actually using the PC

I expect bigger western support for the Wii than what the DS got, which was unfortunate.

edit: nice stealthy edit

 

[imastalker co.]

i'll never forget the original thread. too bad most of the pics don't work now.

 

[DSWii60]

So, can we call the war yet? Or do we have to sit through another 6 months of "Wait for X"?

I think we need to wait a while before we can call it. This holiday will truly tell us once and for all, which console will sell more throughout this generation: PS3 or GBA.