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[Mike Works]

Yeah, this wouldn't look suspicious at all. Where does one buy 250,000 copies of Shadowrun anyway?

shadowrun hut

:lol

 

[imastalker co.]

im posting these just to see what kind of discussion it may start on top of all the other random shit already going on....


"The best thing would be a PS3 with controls like the Wii."

"We're not the ones who are saying we want HD. I'm not interested, myself, about HD at all."

"I'd like to run away from MGS 4 creation and create something for the Wii."

- Kojima

 

[milanbaros]

Whenever I see really bad PS3 numbers like the ones that have been coming from the US and Japan I always adjust in my head what that means because I think the PS3 can't fail. I'm now starting to think the PS3 could just as easily never gain any momentum. Switch the names around of the consoles and these discussions would be a lot different. If the Wii was doing PS3 numbers and the PS3 was doing wii numbers people would be saying Nintendo should pull out of consoles all together.

 

[Merovingian]

Can you elaborate what you're saying in English please?

People say people who want halo 3 already bought the 360, thereby Halo 3 won't sell systems.

This really is underestimating Halo 3. And the amuzing thing, is that the people who apply the logic on the 360/Halo3, don't apply it on the other consoles. Like "Oh everybody who wants mario already bought a Wii", "Everybody who wants Gran Turismo already bought the Ps3".

It doesn't work that way. The logic is retarded.

Edit: Regarding Halo 3, hell, i would say most halo fans still haven't bought a 360 honestly, because it's too expensive, and halo 3 still hasn't come out, so they probably are still playing halo 2 on xbox 1.

 

[Tieno]

edited comment about about halo 3 and 360 audience
.

Couple of months back they released statistics that said that 50% of the 360 audience didn't have xbox in the previous generation

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Man, hats off to Nintendo domination.

The 360 early launch sure looks smart now.

The PS3 is totally done. Such a waste.

 

[Epiphyte]

The people who want to play halo 3 already bought the xbox360 is retarded at best. It's even more retarded when that same logic isn't applied to the other consoles.

While the people who want to play Halo 3 may not yet have a 360, I would be willing to bet that most of the people willing to pay 400$ to play Halo 3 already have the system.

A price drop combined with Halo 3 will spur a ton of sales, but it remains to be seen what MS will do this fall.

 

[Merovingian]

While the people who want to play Halo 3 may not yet have a 360, I would be willing to bet that most of the people willing to pay 400$ to play Halo 3 already have the system.

A price drop combined with Halo 3 will spur a ton of sales, but it remains to be seen what MS will do this fall.

Oh i agree 100%.

 

[Corwood Rep]

So what was Microsoft's rationalization for ****ing making the Elite? Seriously, it hasn't done them a goddamn bit of good for market penetration and probably directly correlates to this decrease in sales.

Also, posting about NPD on IGN has led me to realize why GAF is the best gaming message board. They all think that ******** is still an acceptable site and none of them understand the severity of the 360/PS3's predicament. Even the ****ing WiiGB is using the old "wait for X" argument, and a few are still using the "Wii is a fad" line of bullshit.

 

[RiskyChris]

People say people who want halo 3 already bought the 360, thereby Halo 3 won't sell systems.

This really is underestimating Halo 3. And the amuzing thing, is that the people who apply the logic on the 360/Halo3, don't apply it on the other consoles. Like "Oh everybody who wants mario already bought a Wii", "Everybody who wants Gran Turismo already bought the Ps3".

It doesn't work that way. The logic is retarded.

Edit: Regarding Halo 3, hell, i would say most halo fans still haven't bought a 360 honestly, because it's too expensive, and halo 3 still hasn't come out, so they probably are still playing halo 2 on xbox 1.

A larger portion of the Halo fanbase has already bought a 360 than can be said for any franchise for Wii, by virtue of supply constraints.

 

[superbank]

PS3 dethrones the King.

Guitar Hero is impressive. Those things are not cheap but it just keeps selling.

Nintendo: Release a new color Wiimote bundled with Wii Play and I'll keep it in the top ten for you.

 

[dk_]

I don't even understand what you just said

I think he said Sony is not doing too well. 99% sure.

 

[Merovingian]

So what was Microsoft's rationalization for ****ing making the Elite? Seriously, it hasn't done them a goddamn bit of good for market penetration and probably directly correlates to this decrease in sales.

I believe the Elite is a retarded move, but i think what MS is thinking something along the lines of when they drop the price by 100$(hopefully it is a 100$...) they will still have that system at 400$.

The Elite does 2 things, 1st is that when the price comes down the Elite is where MS will gain most $ per unit, the 2nd is that the Elite is basically extending the console's life, and it's that 2nd thing that i think is kinda smart...

A larger portion of the Halo fanbase has already bought a 360 than can be said for any franchise for Wii, by virtue of supply constraints.

Sadly you focused on the wrong point of my post, and felt the need to defend your beliefs. Thats not what i intended.

 

[imastalker co.]

This really is underestimating Halo 3.

i don't think anyone is underestimating Halo. it's definitely going to sell millions. the only thing im questioning is, how much hardware can it push out the gate? i think 70% of all Halo 3 sales won't have a 360 sold along side it in its first month.

And the amuzing thing, is that the people who apply the logic on the 360/Halo3, don't apply it on the other consoles. Like "Oh everybody who wants mario already bought a Wii", "Everybody who wants Gran Turismo already bought the Ps3".

It doesn't work that way. The logic is retarded.

bad example.

PS2 catered to a lot of different demographics. Gran Turismo sold to about 10% of the PS2 user base. Wii definitely caters to those who have no interest in Mario. 360 on the other hand... well, it only caters to one demographic.

like i said, i could see another Gears scenario going down. games sells a shit load, but only so much hardware got sold along with it.

 

[LM4sure]

Nintendo wins this gen confirmed!!! YAH!!!!!

 

[mr_bishiuk]

how do people that think this seriously come to the conclusion, that those who get into gaming because of Wii, might eventually be willing to drop the big bucks on a system with no waggle?

Because they find they enjoy playing games, start buying magazines, listen to podcasts hear about a game on another system they really want to play and go and buy a new system to play it.

Its not tottally outside the realms of possibility is it, especially after a round or two of price cuts?

 

[imastalker co.]

Its not tottally outside the realms of possibility is it, especially after a round or two of price cuts?

it's definitely possible, but likely? i don't think so.

the people we're reffering to most definitely bought a Wii either for Waggle, or Virtual Console. no other system offers that.

 

[Jokeropia]

Loved the meltdowns earlier in the thread, and Nintendo's press release is awesome. :lol

I'm curious to see how well Tiger Woods has done so far for the Wii versus the 360 and PS3 versions. Even if it did worse, the fact that Wii development costs are lower on average has to be making these third parties tickle with joy.

It passed the PS3 version a while ago and is likely closing in on the 360 version as well.

 

[Merovingian]

i don't think anyone is underestimating Halo. it's definitely going to sell millions. the only thing im questioning is, how much hardware can it push out the gate? i think 70% of all Halo 3 sales won't have a 360 sold along side it in its first month.


bad example.

PS2 catered to a lot of different demographics. Gran Turismo sold to about 10% of the PS2 user base. Wii definitely caters to those who have no interest in Mario. 360 on the other hand... well, it only caters to one demographic.

like i said, i could see another Gears scenario going down. games sells a shit load, but only so much hardware got sold along with it.

Right. I think you are thinking about the xbox1, and i had too many conversations about this already. That logic is retarded.

And GT3 didn't sold to 10% of the Ps2 userbase when it released. You can't factor in the sales of the Ps2 when it hit 199$, you know, where it sold 70% of it's total.

And Wii is no Ps2.

 

[Deku]

And Wii is no Ps2.

How can you be so sure?

 

[Mike Works]

i'm not responding or directing this to anyone in particular, but i'd just like to put this out there when it comes to the THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE ON Wii IS DOOMED CHECK OUT THESE 360/PS3 NUMBERS BITCH discourse:

development costs.

i have no solid numbers in my hands right now, but i remember reading (the same thing in multiple threads) that (in at least the comparison used), the cost ratio of creating a PS3 game in contrast to a Wii game was 4:1 (i think it was 20 million to 5 million, but i can't remember the exact numbers).

developers do not have to sell more copies of their game on the Wii in contrast to the PS3/360 versions in order to validate "good sales" on the system.

- selling 200,000 copies of a game that cost $5 million to make and used a fraction of your staff

- selling 400,000 copies of a game that cost $20 million to make

an argument could be made that selling more physical units could lead to better success in sequels, but the ratio of software units sold would have to be skewed quite high in order to meet that criteria.

i am no major in math, i'm pretty much the opposite, but it pains me when i witness people failing to take the most SIMPLE things in. the (fact?) that the Wii makes money on each system sold and the PS3 and 360 lose money... this seems to just breeze past so many people in NPD threads, it's astounding.

if the PS3 and 360 dropped their price tomorrow and sales skyrockets and hit at the level of the Wii, all people would focus on would be the hard units sold number. Sony and Microsoft would respectively lose millions upon millions of dollars, but no one would take that into account.

since no price drops have occured, this has become a non issue, but the software related point i mentioned has definitely come to light.

third party publishers do not need their games to outsell Mario Party 8. they need their games to make money. and when you take into consideration the ultra low developments costs combined with the booming userbase of the wii, not one ****ing publisher is going to be scared off by Mario ______.

there are multiple legitimate reasons why sony or microsoft have a shot at "winning" this generation, and if you want that to happen for whatever reason, then focus on those. this THIRD PARTIES ARE NO NINTENDO thing is retarded. no one's going to consistently outsell nintendo on nintendo's own system. or any other system. nintendo's the largest publisher in the world.

thankfully, it's looking like there'll be more than enough userbase to go around.

 

[imastalker co.]

Right. I think you are thinking about the xbox1

i am? cause the hardware and software numbers show that they haven't expanded beyond the xbox1 demographic, and i don't think anyone is gonna argue otherwise.

And Wii is no Ps2.

you're right. after all, Wii is out pacing the PS2.

 

[Merovingian]

i am? cause the hardware and software numbers show that they haven't expanded beyond the xbox1 demographic, and i don't think anyone is gonna argue otherwise.


you're right. after all, Wii is out pacing the PS2.

I love how suddenly price doesn't make a difference.

 

[Vagabundo]

Right. I think you are thinking about the xbox1, and i had too many conversations about this already. That logic is retarded.

It has yet to be proven that MS have sold to more than the XBOX1 fanbase. That evidence wont appear until next year or later.

And Wii is no Ps2.

Wii sales are exceeding the PS2 sales at the point in the console cycle. As to software support, if the Wii will get the PS2 levels, that remains to be seen. Indications suggest that dev will not ignore the Wii.

As to if the Wii can sustain the pace, well the competition has not shown that they are not filling the gap and if not them then who?

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Is it worth considering Japanease sales for the western market? I mean if you are a western developer making a game to appeal to the US and Europe you are not really going to count the x amounts of consoles sold in Japan because you know you'll sell next to nothing there anyway.

Western games like Resistance, Motorstorm, Gears etc only appeared briefly in the Japanease charts because they had nothing else to play on it.

When you look at it how many DS games from Western developers have appeared in the Japanease charts, zero?

In addition Japanease developers no longer are shy of producing games for consoles that have no userbase in Japan, Lost Planet, Dead Rising, Ace combat 6 are obvious examples.

I think the point is proved in the case of the gamecube, widely considered a distant 3rd in the West despite globally selling a similar amount as the xbox. This anomaly can be attributed to the fact its user base was split between the two differing demographics West and East leading to the support it had from 3rd parties in the west being awful.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

it's definitely possible, but likely? i don't think so.

the people we're reffering to most definitely bought a Wii either for Waggle, or Virtual Console. no other system offers that.

The people who bought a Wii for waggle probably did not know about VC until after they got the machine.
Also if the bought the machine for Waggle they probably wont need many games after Wii Sports! They'll probably buy Wii play for the bundles wiimote and maybe a game where they get to use the controller as a gun and then they'll get bored and pack it away...

 

[imastalker co.]

I love how suddenly price doesn't make a difference.

Wii is only $50 cheaper than PS2 was at this point.

i also like how you bring up an irrelevant point. what's price have to do with MS failing to sell to a different demographic?

Is it worth considering Japanease sales for the western market? I mean if you are a western developer making a game to appeal to the US and Europe you are not really going to count the x amounts of consoles sold in Japan because you know you'll sell next to nothing there anyway.

japanese sales going to be icing on the cake when Wii has a bigger user base in NA+Europe than MS has in NA+Europe? speaking of which, it's only a matter of time.

Also if the bought the machine for Waggle they probably wont need many games after Wii Sports! They'll probably buy Wii play for the bundles wiimote and maybe a game where they get to use the controller as a gun and then they'll get bored and pack it away...

it must be nice to live in a world where that's absolutely the case. must be pretty comforting for you huh?

 

[ZeoVGM]

I love how suddenly price doesn't make a difference.

oh dude, just stop while you're behind.

 

[Merovingian]

Wii is only $50 cheaper than PS2 was at this point.

Really? It has a free game and a memory card so to speak inside the console.

And i thought 360 was selling a bit more than the Xbox? Considering it's a more expensive console i think it's not bad.

And here's what, 360 has more million sellers than Xbox 1 has.

But holy shit, what am i arguing? Next stop someone will say i'm implying Wii is a fad.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Nintendo continue on their path to totally showing up developers and publishers...

The funniest thing of all...the whole industry was caught with it's pants down...:lol

Ah I remember the DS and Wii unveilings! The reactions...the articles...and above all the laughter and ridicule towards Nintendo...:lol

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Wii is only $50 cheaper than PS2 was at this point.

i also like how you bring up an irrelevant point. what's price have to do with MS failing to sell to a different demographic?


japanese sales going to be icing on the cake when Wii has a bigger user base in NA+Europe than MS has in NA+Europe? speaking of which, it's only a matter of time.


it must be nice to live in a world where that's absolutely the case. must be pretty comforting for you huh?

When I was talking about Japanease sales and their impact in the west I was considering the PS3 more than the Wii actually.

The Wii is doing its own thing I consider it a different market altogether, it has its audience which I respect but the games that are on it and being made for it aren't really aimed at people like me.

I do have a Wii, I bought it because I was having a party and thought it would be a good laugh which it was but I couldn't have it as my only console, I have a 40" Bravia and 5.1 sound!

 

[imastalker co.]

Really? It has a free game and a memory card so to speak inside the console.

ok, so let's go ahead and factor in the price of the game, and memory card. before tax, PS2 at launch was $390 taking those things into consideration.

alright, so at that price, PS2 managed to be the fastest selling system ever (until DS and Wii) in its first year, and years to follow. i think it's safe to say that price wasn't limiting system sales at all that first year.

tell me, why didn't 360 do the same? for $400, you could get a system, a game, and a memory card at launch.

And i thought 360 was selling a bit more than the Xbox?

keyword: bit.

And here's what, 360 has more million sellers than Xbox 1 has.

how many of them expanded the xbox demographic?

 

[mr_bishiuk]

keyword: bit.


how many of them expanded the xbox demographic?

How many people on Gaf are not in this demographic? Who here cares if their console has granny's buying it? My friend plays Lego Starwars and Viva with his 5 year old boy on his 360 all the time, once he's done Lego starwars he told me he's getting Kameo, there are titles available for a wider audience. How many games on Wii appeal to the hardcore demographic not that many is it?

The only people who should be worried about expanding the demographic are Marketeers because it means they can sell more consoles.

 

[imastalker co.]

How many people on Gaf are not in this demographic? Who here cares if their console has granny's buying it?

The only people who should be worried about expanding the demographic are Marketeers because it means they can sell more consoles.

do you know what this results to? do you know why you should care? because as a gamer, it affects you.

 

[bud]

do you know what this results to? do you know why you should care? because as a gamer, it affects you.

i'm sure every gamer is thrilled about games like wii play, wii sports and brain training.

 

[Merovingian]

do you know what this results to? you should, because as a gamer, it affects you.

Well, honestly, from what i'm seeing....Ubisoft wanting to run the mini game thing wild on the Wii and shit, DQ swords being what it is...

It's becoming a very "alternative" type of experience. So...it kinda doesn't affect the gamer that wants other type of games at all.

And say, they say 50% of the people who own a 360 didn't own a Xbox, that's kind of expanding it right? Guitar Hero 2 is selling big on it, that never happened on the xbox1 (With that type of game) for example.

If expanding the market means, lets have the 10 year old kids on board, well...then yeah it's not expanding to that no. Honestly, if expanding the market that way meant being like the Wii, it would suck pretty bad, so no thanks.

 

[imastalker co.]

i'm sure every gamer is thrilled about games like wii play, wii sports and brain training.

be that as it may, doesn't change the fact that Nintendo is dominating in every region.

accept it, or get used to hating gaming. but enough with the bitching. it's not gonna change anything.

 

[Merovingian]

be that as it may, doesn't change the fact that Nintendo is dominating in every region.

accept it, or get used to hating gaming. but enough with the bitching. it's not gonna change anything.

Oh but i think people accept it. I wasn't debating that. I was debating another point, that 360 will sell more when Halo 3 comes out, and will sell more with a price cut. And in the end it will be a very succesfull console.

Nobody is arguing that the Wii won't be the most successfull one. I think that's kind of a given, unless the whole fad thing, which i don't bet on, happens.

Why would people hate on gaming...there's 3 other choices.

 

[Shorty]

Evereybody thank Nintendo for saving the gaming Industry!

 

[mclem]

To the gamer that is not a hardcore gamer like the rest of us, graphics don't matter.

To the hardcore gamer - the sort of person who's willing to spend time with both Crackdown and Punch-Out - graphics don't matter.

 

[imastalker co.]

Well, honestly, from what i'm seeing....Ubisoft wanting to run the mini game thing wild on the Wii and shit, DQ swords being what it is...

did you get into gaming like... a couple weeks before E3 06?

you seem to have no idea what went down.

And say, they say 50% of the people who own a 360 didn't own a Xbox, that's kind of expanding it right?

to say the least.

although hardware and software sales clearly show that this isn't the case.

Guitar Hero 2 is selling big on it, that never happened on the xbox1 (With that type of game) for example.

1 game? a game which you can't even compare sales to anything since xbox never got anything like it. that's some serious expanding going on there.

If expanding the market means, lets have the 10 year old kids on board, well...then yeah it's not expanding to that no. Honestly, if expanding the market that way meant being like the Wii, it would suck pretty bad, so no thanks.

there you have it.

Oh but i think people accept it. I wasn't debating that. I was debating another point, that 360 will sell more when Halo 3 comes out, and will sell more with a price cut. And in the end it will be a very succesfull console.

go read your last few post in this thread.

that's enough.

Evereybody thank Nintendo for saving the gaming Industry!

yes. with $2,000 development kits, and much lower development cost.

also, for bringing japan back full swing, and for getting my dad into gaming.

 

[Zynx]

The GC sold 21.59m. The Xbox sold 24m.

Nintendo's estimating the DS will sell 24m from April 2007-March 2008.

Wait, the DS is projected to sell in one year what the Xbox did in its life?

Wow...

 

[Ramenman]

--[The Truth]--

Thanks.


Oh and, is there a thread for that Kojima quote ? I find it kind of funny.

 

[besada]

Can you imagine a future where there is only the PC and the Wii?

I KNOW I CAN!

That's a future where I spend a shitload less on videogames.

 

[Kujo]

Did we get any numbers for the 360 Elite?

 

[Yoboman]

Wii has a LOT of short term appeal but this should've been obvious of a budget console with some innovative new ideas behind it, but I'm not convinced this'll stay true in the long-term, nor am I convinced by Nintendo's software lineup. Maybe if they can truly flesh that out, then we'll see if they really have it in the bag

I mean if 360 dropped to a broad stream $199 this year, think how the market would change

 

[Magicpaint]

Wii has a LOT of short term appeal but this should've been obvious of a budget console with some innovative new ideas behind it, but I'm not convinced this'll stay true in the long-term, nor am I convinced by Nintendo's software lineup. Maybe if they can truly flesh that out, then we'll see if they really have it in the bag

I mean if 360 dropped to a broad stream $199 this year, think how the market would change

:lol :lol :lol

I remember when the $250 price tag was supposed to doom the Wii because granny and kids wouldn't have been able to afford it.

 

[Phoenix 2.0]

Anyway regarding 'Why isn't ___ on ___ yet', At least from MC, NPD the Nintendo fans have a point - you'd think ___ would come out on a larger userbase to sell to. Now the difference is that ____ won't think about putting ____ on ____ till they go through their cost-benefit analysis of doing ___ on ___, especially since they've already committed to ____ on not ____. So it puzzles me a bit on the flip side why you'd want ___ to be on ___ as it's like putting Dragon Quest IX on the Gizmondo.

This post is a work of art.

EDIT: Actually, Nintendo's "press release" is a work of art.

 

[Yoboman]

:lol :lol :lol

I remember when the $250 price tag was supposed to doom the Wii because granny and kids wouldn't have been able to afford it.

What?

 

[acuul]

What?

he is right, many internets wrote that wii was overpriced for his pubblic