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[FrankT]

If we can confirm that ACB 360 sold roughly 800K, we can begin to flesh out a Top 10 SKU CHart.

1.BLOPS 360
2.BLOPS PS3
3.Ass.Creed Bro. 360-800K
4.Just Dance II Wii-700K
5.Fable 3 360
6.DKCR Wii-430 K
7.Gran Turismo 4 PS3-400K
8.Wii Fit Plus Wii
9.Ass. Creed Bro. PS3-314K
10.Halo Reach 360

is my best guess.

Not bad, then 11. Dance Central, 12. Kinect Sports.

Yes after looking at the PC and Wii sales of the old games I agree, that should leave room for the PS3 AC version in the bottom of the top 10 at 400k+.

1.14M would put it closer to 300k.

Little bit surprised by this as well because it looks as if 360 version held steady while the PS3 version drooped a decent bit.

4.Assassin's Creed II (Xbox 360) / Ubisoft Montreal, Ubisoft / 794,700
8.Assassin's Creed II (PS3) / Ubisoft Montreal, Ubisoft / 448,400

How do we still not have the COD breakdown?

 

[Lebron]

For those without kinect, it might be a bit worse, but really, by next year you can probably score a kinect and play stuff like project draco, that rumored gears kinect game, or that grasshopper project, on top of stuff like gears 3 and whatever else MS will be announcing.

*Looks for mention of Steel Battalion*
*finds nothing*
*Sulks in the corner*

 

[Vinci]

I havent read through the entire thread or anything, so forgive if this has been stated, but regarding the analyst concerned with the game attach rate to the Kinect...

Isn't the obvious answer to that that a ton, if not most of Kinects sold are being bought for Christmas gifts? I know two people in the past week that tracked down Kinect for their kids, and then asked me about what games to get. Games will be bought later on...the concern is finding the unit.

NO. People enjoy just having the Kinect for dashboard interaction. You obviously fail to comprehend how easily entertained these bottom-feeders are. They're not like you and me. If they were smart enough to do so, they'd be adequately entertained simply by watching their hand move - but they haven't even thought that far ahead.

 

[GavinGT]

If we can confirm that ACB 360 sold roughly 800K, we can begin to flesh out a Top 10 SKU CHart.

I feel like this was determined way early on in this thread.....

 

[Apath]

*Looks for mention of Steel Battalion*
*finds nothing*
*Sulks in the corner*

I mentioned it

 

[Redbeard]

Sony is probably more concerned with making money than outselling the 360. They lost already a ton of money this gen, i cant see them dropping the price just to outsell competition when they would make less money at the end.

They're already outselling the competition world wide (360 at least)

Why would they drop the price just because they're not outselling the competition in one territory?

When Sony drops the price, it's usually a universal move for all regions. Wouldn't make much sense to just drop the price in the US because its sales in that region are lagging behind, particularly when there's nothing unhealthy about their world wide sales.

 

[szaromir]

They're already outselling the competition world wide (360 at least)

Why would they drop the price just because they're not outselling the competition in one territory?

When Sony drops the price, it's usually a universal move for all regions. Wouldn't make much sense to just drop the price in the US because its sales in that region are lagging behind, particularly when there's nothing unhealthy about their world wide sales.

Probably not.

If PS3 will be pushed into nonrelevance in the US, I'm sure Sony would drop the price in that particular territory. Better to lose some profit than completely tarnish the brand.

 

[Vinci]

Probably not.

If PS3 will be pushed into nonrelevance in the US, I'm sure Sony would drop the price in that particular territory. Better to lose some profit than completely tarnish the brand.

I think they've already pretty much tarnished the brand at this point.

 

[LosDaddie]

I think they've already pretty much tarnished the brand at this point.

Is there any doubt at this point? The PS brand went from unquestioned leader to still being in last place after 4yrs into a gen.

 

[Graphics Horse]

1.14M would put it closer to 300k.

Little bit surprised by this as well because it looks as if 360 version held steady while the PS3 version drooped a decent bit.

Yep I was being generous as I didn't know where that 800k number came from (twitter?)

 

[EagleEyes]

They're already outselling the competition world wide (360 at least)

Why would they drop the price just because they're not outselling the competition in one territory?

When Sony drops the price, it's usually a universal move for all regions. Wouldn't make much sense to just drop the price in the US because its sales in that region are lagging behind, particularly when there's nothing unhealthy about their world wide sales.

Where are they making up the 800+k difference right now to offset this past month in the US? Centainly not the UK. Japan and mainland Europe can"t make up that much of a difference. It's only gonna get worse in December.

 

[szaromir]

Where are they making up the 800+k difference right now to offset this past month in the US? Centainly not the UK. Japan and mainland Europe can"t make up that much of a difference. It's only gonna get worse in December.

PS3 outsold 360 in November by 125k units. We know 360 is selling better in the UK, so that leaves PS3 outselling 360 weekly by 200k units in mainland Europe if it's outselling it overall worldwide. That's a huge assumption to make.

I think they've already pretty much tarnished the brand at this point.

Note the use of word "completely".

 

[Lebron]

Is there any doubt at this point? The PS brand went from unquestioned leader to still being in last place after 4yrs into a gen.

It goes without saying that they don't have the same impact that they use to. But, I think it's more of the competition just improving, more so than them really tarnishing the brand. You could have said the same thing about Nintendo not to long ago during the N64-GCN years.

I mentioned it

My man!

 

[see5harp]

It goes without saying that they don't have the same impact that they use to. But, I think it's more of the competition just improving, more so than them really tarnishing the brand. You could have said the same thing about Nintendo not to long ago during the N64-GCN years.

That's what I take from it. The PS3 and PSP still have an incredible presence in every retailer in the country. The 360 had tremendous software support and a hardcore install base that tends to spend a ton of money. They just really did a great job this gen and Sony could never really recover from 2 years of mediocrity.

 

[CitizenCope]

Kevin Butler is Rex Ryan.
May have already been said but I'm only up to page 15. Best NPD in a while.

 

[Redbeard]

Where are they making up the 800+k difference right now to offset this past month in the US? Centainly not the UK. Japan and mainland Europe can"t make up that much of a difference. It's only gonna get worse in December.

World wide sales, i.e., everything outside of the US and to a lesser extent the UK. GT5 has been a big seller in the UK so its impact on PS3 sales may be relevant unlike the US.

I wouldn't assume that Europe and Japan can't make up that difference over the span of an entire quarter.

PS3 was outsold significantly in the US this past quarter but world wide Sony still shipped about a million more.

I doubt it gets worse in December. Things will probably normalize a bit, seeing as how Europe doesn't have black friday crazyness.

 

[clashfan]

Kevin Butler is Rex Ryan.
May have already been said but I'm only up to page 15. Best NPD in a while.

He's a big guy that's a football coach?

 

[FrankT]

World wide sales, i.e., everything outside of the US and to a lesser extent the UK. GT5 has been a big seller in the UK so its impact on PS3 sales may be relevant unlike the US.

I wouldn't assume that Europe and Japan can't make up that difference over the span of an entire quarter.

PS3 was outsold significantly in the US this past quarter but world wide Sony still shipped about a million more.

I doubt it gets worse in December. Things will probably normalize a bit, seeing as how Europe doesn't have black friday crazyness.

By these numbers I would expect a much larger gap in Dec. I also would not expect anywhere close to 200k a week in EMEA to make up for Nov US+Japan.

 

[Kenka]

I don't know if anyone has asked the question but...







...did creamsugaer got ninja'd or something ? He's dead silent, and we need him to save us before we eventually dive into jvm's article.


Goldeneye 007. Fucking nothing more, it's a promise.

 

[Chrange]

PS3 was outsold significantly in the US this past quarter but world wide Sony still shipped about a million more.

Sold...shipped...it's all the same, right?

 

[FrankT]

I don't know if anyone has asked the question but...







...did creamsugaer got ninja'd or something ? He's dead silent, and we need him to save us before we eventually dive into jvm's article.


Goldeneye 007. Fucking nothing more, it's a promise.

He's discreet. Wouldn't be surprised if the Ninjas are on em at this point. Checked his twitter?

 

[CitizenCope]

He's a big guy that's a football coach?

:lol
No, everyone loved what he had to say until he got blown out. Now everyone wants him to shut up.

 

[Ashes]

I don't know if anyone has asked the question but...

...did creamsugaer got ninja'd or something ? He's dead silent, and we need him to save us before we eventually dive into jvm's article.


Goldeneye 007. Fucking nothing more, it's a promise.

Goldeneye 007 can't have done well enough to be be mentioned, nor worse enough to be mentioned, thus it lives on with mediocre sales perhaps.

 

[szaromir]

World wide sales, i.e., everything outside of the US and to a lesser extent the UK.

:lol

 

[Pooya]

Yep I was being generous as I didn't know where that 800k number came from (twitter?)

twitter and someone else that is trustworthy somehow verified it.not a good source though still I agree.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

He's discreet. Wouldn't be surprised if the Ninjas are on em at this point. Checked his twitter?

Nothing there last time I checked (earlier today).

I'd guess he got a shot across the bow, either from a mod here or from someone elsewhere.

 

[Baki]

Isn't that true to a great degree for any new (sub-)platform? I mean, the thing is technically a peripheral and those usually focus on adding something new and otherwise not quite possible without it to the host platform and/or device.

I agree (although there are some exceptions).

My point was that, they've yet to show (first, second or third party) that they can make compelling software for the platform. Although Dance Central is a very good attempt at it.

So you're going to use that early Wii argument, then? Not attacking you, but it's silly stating it's all hype. People may be initially pulled in by the lack of a controller, since it separates itself from the competition. To say, though, that the actual games don't have any impact at all is being unfair. People have posted plenty of impressions stating how they won people over after letting them play DC, or Adventures, or Sports, etc. I would say that for a lot it's both the premise, and some select games, that win people over. You can't really isolate one over the other. It would not be selling as well if all the games were garbage and unresponsive. People would be intrigued then quickly lose interest due to the frustration if that were the case.

My point is that we haven't waited long enough for us to judge whether people will lose interest or whether it'll continue to chug along.

 

[FrankT]

twitter and someone else that is trustworthy somehow verified it.

The IGN editor mentioned it wasn't combined after the 800k post. I figured that was the verification needed though bottom line it has to be somewhere above 700k basically.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

World wide sales, i.e., everything outside of the US and to a lesser extent the UK.

So basically every region except the region that this entire thread is focusing on?

 

[Vinci]

So basically every region except the region that this entire thread is focusing on?

Sometimes, I think people are a bit too strict on this particular subject... As long as the person communicates that they are discussing worldwide sales, does it really matter that they're expanding a bit from the thread's original foundation?

 

[Redbeard]

By these numbers I would expect a much larger gap in Dec. I also would not expect anywhere close to 200k a week in EMEA to make up for Nov US+Japan.

There's no way you can use these numbers as an indicator of how December will be.

Everyone was surprised last year when the 360 beat the PS3 significantly in November, only to see a reversal in December. If we were to assume that November's numbers last year would predict December, then PS3 would have gotten outsold significantly, but what ended up happening is the PS3 ended up on top.

PS3 will get outsold by the 360 easily in the US for December this year, but I'd be surprised if the margin was greater than November. 360 gets a huge boost upfront from CoD, and November was Kinect's launch month. Not to mention 360 had much better black friday deals. Both boosts could attenuate a bit, and there's also the issue of supply and whether or not Microsoft has enough 360's to meet significantly more demand.

Europe's entire market is roughly as big as the US market, and they just had GT5 release and CoD has sold very well with the PS3 version dominating the Euro charts. Both of those items could very well have PS3 selling significantly more in Europe which should certainly mitigate some of the 360's momentum leads in the US. Throw in Japan, where holiday sales are starting to increase a bit, and it wouldn't surprise me to see PS3 ahead yet again for next quarter in terms of world wide shipments.

But we'll have to see how things pan out when they release their numbers.

 

[FrankT]

There's no way you can use these numbers as an indicator of how December will be.

Everyone was surprised last year when the 360 beat the PS3 significantly in November, only to see a reversal in December. If we were to assume that November's numbers last year would predict December, then PS3 would have gotten outsold significantly, but what ended up happening is the PS3 ended up on top.

PS3 will get outsold by the 360 easily in the US for December this year, but I'd be surprised if the margin was greater than November. 360 gets a huge boost upfront from CoD, and November was Kinect's launch month. Both boosts could attenuate a bit, and there's also the issue of supply and whether or not Microsoft has enough 360's to meet significantly more demand.

Europe's entire market is roughly as big as the US market, and they just had GT5 release and CoD has sold very well with the PS3 version dominating the Euro charts. Both of those items could very well have PS3 selling significantly more in Europe which should certainly mitigate some of the 360's momentum leads in the US. Throw in Japan, where holiday sales are starting to increase a bit, and it wouldn't surprise me to see PS3 ahead yet again for next quarter in terms of world wide sales.

They did 840k between the two in Nov. I'll say it right it will be more in Dec. We'll see though and again if somehow the PS3 is doing 200k more in Europe well amazing stuff. The shipment numbers for both of these companies will be very interesting for this quarter. At the end of the quarter all we have to do is look at Japan+US to see what the difference would have to be to beat it.

 

[Kenka]

Tsss.... whining is of no help :-(


And jvm's last article about NPD October was put online on Nov, 19th. If it is the same again this month, then we would have to wait nine more days.

 

[beast786]

Sold...shipped...it's all the same, right?

For the publisher. Yes.

For the Retailer. No.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Sometimes, I think people are a bit too strict on this particular subject... As long as the person communicates that they are discussing worldwide sales, does it really matter that they're expanding a bit from the thread's original foundation?

TBH, I think being strict on this is for the best. It's far, far too easy for a thread to go flying off on a tangent because someone slings in WW sales, or starts mixing in figures from other territories.

 

[Vinci]

TBH, I think being strict on this is for the best. It's far, far too easy for a thread to go flying off on a tangent because someone slings in WW sales, or starts mixing in figures from other territories.

Yeah, but... I mean... this thread is over 20 pages long. Is it really so horrible to extend the discussion to encase the larger picture of what this thread is about - sales? Especially when discussing platform strategy, it seems insane to look at things solely from a national perspective alone.

 

[Chris1964]

For the publisher. Yes.

For the Retailer. No.

Yes for both.

 

[szaromir]

Sometimes, I think people are a bit too strict on this particular subject... As long as the person communicates that they are discussing worldwide sales, does it really matter that they're expanding a bit from the thread's original foundation?

It'd be OK if he actually quoted some actual data, but he states his wishful guesses as actual fact, then he goes to discuss in length how his made up numbers are correct. Only to drive away the discussion from actual subject, ie. Sony is in deep shit in the US.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Yeah, but... I mean... this thread is over 20 pages long. Is it really so horrible to extend the discussion to encase the larger picture of what this thread is about - sales? Especially when discussing platform strategy, it seems insane to look at things solely from a national perspective alone.

The thread is about sales in the US. If you want to talk worldwide sales, you are more than free to create a thread about it. NPD threads are the only place this goes unchecked. You will not find this excessive posting from outside numbers from posters who don't live in the reporting are in any other sales threads.

While other outside numbers will be casually mentioned in other threads like MediaCreate, I don't remember ever reading people harping on Europe or WW numbers in force like happens in NPD threads.

 

[offshore]

I'll say it right it will be more in Dec.

I do hope so. Maybe then Kaz Hirai will finally wake up and realise that Tretton and Co. need to be put on their bike.

I don't know who you'd bring in to SCEA though. It would have to be someone who's good at presenting at E3 though, without looking like they're about to have a heart attack.

Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself..

 

[Dunlop]

Yeah, but... I mean... this thread is over 20 pages long. Is it really so horrible to extend the discussion to encase the larger picture of what this thread is about - sales? Especially when discussing platform strategy, it seems insane to look at things solely from a national perspective alone.

Do we get specific monthly numbers from the Uk and Europe now? If not it is just another flavor of the shipped vs sold to customer debate where we can all make up numbers for the next 20 pages

 

[Baki]

Sounds like the PS3 launch all over again.

I can't help but be disappointed by this NPD. The year I feel PS3 finally pushed itself head and shoulder above the 360, and Microsoft seemed dead set on alienating gamers like me, 360 goes for a massive lead and completely sweeps the PS3.

And why do people feel that software like LBP2 or Killzone 3 would have helped the PS3? I could understand that it would drive up software sales, but I cannot see how adding a 2 or 3 at the end of a title is going to suddenly make it more appealing to prospective console buyers.

I feel like I addressed why the PS3 fell so badly quite well in my prior post:

For the North American market, the MOVE has always been too me-too. Couple this with an inferior marketing campaign to Kinect (which looks and feels "different" from the Wii) and we have a good reason why the PS3 and the MOVE failed to push significant hardware this month. (I guess this also establishes that the fate of both consoles (X360 and PS3) are tied to each other.)

So was SCE wrong to go with the MOVE? Well here is my assessment (but in-short no).

Their mistakes were:

(1) Software. It wasn't unique enough. MS were lucky enough to get away with their offerings because the actual hardware seemed different.

(2) MOVE bundle price. Sorry but $399 is too much for a mainstream product. $299 would have been a great price.

(3) No good bundles. They needed to increase the value proposition of their products by offering games. A good start would be old games like inFamous, Uncharted, Motorstorm, Killzone 2 or LBP. Not only are these games going to receive sequels soon but they are also well reviewed. Not to mention unlikely to be bough anymore due to their age.

(4) Allowing MS to gain momentum at the beginning of the year. Their lack of action on the supply issue (when the demand for the PS3 was greater than the Xbox 360) allowed the Xbox 360 become the console of choice for HD crowd at the time. This allowed them to build momentum during the beginning of the year.

(5) No US appealing exclusives for NA market (for FALL).

(6) GT5 delay caused problems with marketing for it and no $299 bundle.

 

[chespace]

Sold...shipped...it's all the same, right?

Shhh, you're messing up his argument.

 

[P90]

Core gamers is a stupid definition; if you refer to the COD/Halo/GTA/Madden crowd, then they didn't abandon them, they just never owned that market.

Bingo-Bango! +1

 

[szaromir]

Sold...shipped...it's all the same, right?

Also "about million'=300k

 

[Ashes]

Having seen the playstation branding on the champions league this week, I think people (including me) do forget that playstation has scored a great deal more marketing power than x360 and wii across Europe. What's bigger than the Champions League in Europe?
Through out the year, I'd say over here Playstation gets more advertising for the primary 'core' market then over there in the US. Week in week out. We really only just concentrate when a game comes out or during a product launch, or seasonal advertising etc, but playstation has that Champions League billing as well.

 

[Gadfly]

Damn guess I missed a lot of threads because all I heard was how successful its going to be, at least compared to move. I'll go back and look through some old threads.

I guess you missed a lot.

A day wouldn't go by without another thread ridiculing either Kinect or Microsoft’s claim that it will sell 3 million (initially) and 5 million (later on).

Unless you are being sarcastic and really meant to say GAF was predicting success which would require a lot of dishonesty to say. I give you the benefit of doubt that you really missed those "LOL Kinect" threads.

 

[charlequin]

$299 Kinect bundle is a great value only for someone who really wants Kinect

Right... which was 700k people (i.e. significantly more people than bought PS3s in any configuration) in November.

Obviously all value calculations are relative to what buyers actually want. In this case, if people want Kinect specifically, or if they want an HD console with motion control, the Kinect bundle's a pretty good deal, and arguably much more valuable and appealing than the $299 PS3.

Currently $299 360 HDD is pretty much the same value proposition as PS3 now that MS added Wifi, I doubt Blu-Ray playback is a big deal for many people.

It's a lot closer than it was with the old 360 model, anyway.

I think it's the flexibility of MS's pricing that's the advantage

Well, that's part of what I was getting at. Before, even though the direct $299 comparison wasn't as good pre-Slim, Microsoft at least had the cheapest HD console with the $199 unit; now, they have three options, at least two of which are directly better at filling a specific need than Sony's equivalent (cheapest HD SKU, cheapest HD-with-waggle SKU.) Sony's SKU options don't really fill desirable consumer options the same way right now, IMO.

The Xbox 360 arguably has a better bundle now too if you don't care about Blu Ray either at $299. You get a bigger hdd on the X360 (250) versus the PS3 (160). You get a head set in the $299 360 package still correct? The 360 also has wireless N wifi in this package.

Yeah, also a good point. I would imagine this is a notable factor in the success of the 360 post-Slim launch.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Having seen the playstation branding on the champions league this week, I think people (including me) do forget that playstation has scored a great deal more marketing power than x360 and wii across Europe. What's bigger than the Champions League in Europe?
Through out the year, I'd say over here Playstation gets more advertising for the primary 'core' market then over there in the US. Week in week out. We really only just concentrate when a game comes out or during a product launch, or seasonal advertising etc, but playstation has that Champions League billing as well.

What thread were you supposed to be posting this to?

 

[Sadist]

Finally caught up. A classic GAF sales thread.

Still curious about Goldeneye Wii.