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Knack
LBP3
SingStar
Putty squad
Arguably even the playroom could be seen as a more casual facing experience.

And thats ignoring the console exclusive indies.

Those games don't get any press, sales, or pop culture traction.

Their influence is pretty vastly overshadowed by kids/family titles that are multiplatform anyway (LEGO, Just Dance, Angry Birds, Minecraft, Skylanders, Disney Infinity). Minecraft is the only king maker that might be an exclusive, but we need to see how that cookie crumbles.

 

[TomShoe]

This is news to me.

The more you know

 

[StevieP]

You are trying to create a narrative from my words.

I never said the PS4 has a lot for the casual market yet, but it has more than the Xbox and Sony over its history as a publisher has always been someone that has something for everyone, regardless if they are seen as good or bad games.

And Microsoft hasnt? Sure, if you conveniently forget the previous generation I can see how you can work mental gymnastics to believe that statement.

 

[tapedeck]

Is there any actual info that says MS is losing $100 per console on these bundles? They don't have Kinect, and I think the games included are just download codes. I would imagine they are probably close to breaking even..

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

And Microsoft hasnt? Sure, if you conveniently forget the previous generation I can see how you can work mental gymnastics to believe that statement.

Considering the line of discussion was about impact of upcoming games on current gen consoles , yeah the only person engaging in metal gymanastics is you, to once again create a narrative.

Like I said. Painfully transparent.

 

[border]

I bet both beat infamous's 1 million in 9 days WW. I think the order's story and setting are very marketable and Bloodborne has a chance to capture some of the GOW audience.

Upon release in the US, Dark Souls 2 sold like 300K on a combined userbase of probably 75 million+ systems. I would not expect a spiritual sequel to perform better on a much smaller userbase, though I suppose it depends on how much marketing money gets spent.

The market for character action games (let alone punishingly hard ones) is not so hot at the moment. The "God of War" audience has dwindled -- the last game sold 360K in its first month, down from sales of over 1 million for GoW3.

 

[Hanzou]

Is there any actual info that says MS is losing $100 per console on these bundles? They don't have Kinect, and I think the games included are just download codes. I would imagine they are probably close to breaking even..

For the game it's not the price of the disc and box that costs money (it's probably pennies) it's paying the publisher for each game bundled.

 

[Kathian]

Is there any actual info that says MS is losing $100 per console on these bundles? They don't have Kinect, and I think the games included are just download codes. I would imagine they are probably close to breaking even..

Probably spending more to sell each unit than they are charging. But they need it and are doing very well.

 

[arevin01]

Knack
LBP3
SingStar
Putty squad
Arguably even the playroom could be seen as a more casual facing experience.

And thats ignoring the console exclusive indies.



see above

lol this is stretching for straws

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Those games don't get any press, sales, or pop culture traction.

But they are there to round out the library, just like the order and driveclub.

People who are expecting them to be breakout hits that are crtitical and commerical darlings haven't been paying attention during the PS3 generation.

Bloodborne is in a unique spot that it can be seen as both a sequel to a highly regarded series and a sequel to highly regarded exclusive title. But it still is part of a rather niche genre and will stil to be selling more to an established base than bringing in new fans.

 

[Vyer]

Considering the line of discussion was about impact of upcoming games on current gen consoles , yeah the only person engaging in metal gymanastics is you, to once again create a narrative.

Like I said. Painfully transparent.

I'm not familiar with putty squad, but what does the rest of your list have to do with upcoming games?

I have a five year old and three nephews in the 5-8 yo range. There is a mix of XB1s and PS4s among them. Trying to paint one of them as more focused on kids than the other is a stretch.

(Though Minecraft is hands down the big one with kids right now it seems)

 

[border]

Considering the line of discussion was about impact of upcoming games on current gen consoles , yeah the only person engaging in metal gymanastics is you, to once again create a narrative.

Like I said. Painfully transparent.

But they are there to round out the library, just like the order and driveclub.

Xbox One has a bunch of exclusive, junky, C-grade kids and family games that "round out" the library. Project SPARK, Disney Fantasia, Dance Central, Zoo Tycoon, Lococycle, Max: Curse of Brotherhood all jump to mind.

I think it's disingenuous to pretend that Sony or Microsoft are really all that committed to the kids/women/family market. Or that their lineup is going to make a lick of difference. They shouldn't be focused on that market though, because those people are price sensitive and not early adopters.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Upon release in the US, Dark Souls 2 sold like 300K on a combined userbase of probably 75 million+ systems. I would not expect a spiritual sequel to perform better on a much smaller userbase, though I suppose it depends on how much marketing money gets spent.

The market for character action games (let alone punishingly hard ones) is not so hot at the moment. The "God of War" audience has dwindled -- the last game sold 360K in its first month, down from sales of over 1 million for GoW3.

I am a HUGE GOW fan and I think the sales were weak because Ascension was not a very good game. It's the only GOW I lost interest in playing halfway through.

Splitting their focus between SP and MP was not a benefit to the brand imo.

GOW3 was amazing. Ascension was instantly forgettable.

And to the point the other poster had about drawing in the GOW crowd to BB, I have zero interest in that game. UC4 is the game that will sell me a PS4 next year, not that game.

 

[JaggedSac]

If that where true some of the board of directors and investors wouldn't want the Xbox divison killed or sold off and it's only gonna be worse over time the more money the Xbox division loses or spends.

Which directors? I remember reading some garbage articles from a couple analysts.

Bing is irrelevant and dying will eventually get killed off too IMO

So irrelevant that they just plopped it into Office.

 

[tapedeck]

For the game it's not the price of the disc and box that costs money (it's probably pennies) it's paying the publisher for each game bundled.

Ah right, still I'd be very curious to know what it works out to that MS actually pays per bundled game to the publisher.

Probably spending more to sell each unit than they are charging. But they need it and are doing very well.

Yeah, I guess $100 per unit seemed like a very high number to just toss out there.

 

[anexanhume]

Upon release in the US, Dark Souls 2 sold like 300K on a combined userbase of probably 75 million+ systems. I would not expect a spiritual sequel to perform better on a much smaller userbase, though I suppose it depends on how much marketing money gets spent.

The market for character action games (let alone punishingly hard ones) is not so hot at the moment. The "God of War" audience has dwindled -- the last game sold 360K in its first month, down from sales of over 1 million for GoW3.

I think there are problems comparing to those releases. One is not a direct sequel that wasn't reviewed well and the other was released right on a generational gap and was also a lackluster sequel. Regardless, look at how well the Souls games have done in Japan. We've seen PS4 sales rise on weeks with any significant PS4 release that sells north of 30k, so I would expect a nice uptick there.

I am a HUGE GOW fan and I think the sales were weak because Ascension was not a very good game. It's the only GOW I lost interest in playing halfway through.

Splitting their focus between SP and MP was not a benefit to the brand imo.

GOW3 was amazing. Ascension was instantly forgettable.

And to the point the other poster had about drawing in the GOW crowd to BB, I have zero interest in that game. UC4 is the game that will sell me a PS4 next year, not that game.

I wasn't talking about moving PS4s domestically necessarily. Just that I thought that the titles themselves would be very well.

For instance infamous had strong sales but didn't seem to drastically affect PS4 sales.

 

[StevieP]

One thing I will say is the people I "openly disparage" get that reaction because the lens they are looking through is painfully transparent. Its not concern for the health of the console market (which long term trends are not even worth speculating on at this early stage in the cycle) , its concern for the market for Nintendo, who outside of one explosive generation where they found lightening in a bottle, have been on a downward trend since the mid 90's in the console space.

Since you like editing your posts after the fact a lot, I will respond to this. If someone isn't chasing the young/family demographic to their consoles it is ABSOLUTELY a concern for the market at large and not just the one manufacturer who still gives a shit about demographics outside of the 18-35yo male. I hope John Harker is still reading the thread, as he is much more eloquent about it (and has the data at his fingertips). Edit: so is Opiate, who popped by earlier. If you don't see the actual trends for those outside the core market then either you are being willfully ignorant of the current market reality or you don't give a shit about market churn and are just focused on the narrow tunnel you're currently presenting. Gaming has never been bigger and more inclusive to more people. They're just... not currently playing them on this generation of consoles. The majority of software focus for the near and long term future suggests that they won't be. It's a simple cause and effect without the need for mental gymnastics.

It doesn't matter if none the PS4s first party games are a knockout blow, the way Titanfall was, or Tomb riader, or an imaginary working at launch MCC is.

Already we have a wide variety of exclusive software that caters for all times of gamer from all walks of life.

meanwhile Microsoft is concentrating soley on the 18-35 male gamer market. They have nearly nothing for kids, women, families etc. Even within the 18-35, they really have only stuck with the the most basic tried and true fomulas.

Knack
LBP3
SingStar
Putty squad
Arguably even the playroom could be seen as a more casual facing experience.

And thats ignoring the console exclusive indies.

You are trying to create a narrative from my words.

I never said the PS4 has a lot for the casual market yet, but it has more than the Xbox and Sony over its history as a publisher has always been someone that has something for everyone, regardless if they are seen as good or bad games.

Considering the line of discussion was about impact of upcoming games on current gen consoles , yeah the only person engaging in metal gymanastics is you, to once again create a narrative.

Really?

Like I said. Painfully transparent.

Indeed.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I'm not familiar with putty squad, but what does the rest of your list have to do with upcoming games?

I have a five year old and three nephews in the 5-8 yo range. There is a mix of XB1s and PS4s among them. Trying to paint one of them as more focused on kids than the other is a stretch.

(Though Minecraft is hands down the big one with kids right now it seems)

Xbox One has a bunch of exclusive, junky, C-grade kids and family games -- Project SPARK, Disney Fantasia, Dance Central, Zoo Tycoon, Lococycle, Max: Curse of Brotherhood.

I think it's disingenuous to pretend that Sony or Microsoft are really all that committed to the kids/women/family market. Or that their lineup is going to make a lick of difference.

Honestly, this is becoming more and more OT to my original point, which was already OT to the thread anyway.

Ill reiterate my postion so its a bit more clear.

I believe that either willfully or just out of necessity, Sony focuses more of its first party development resources on games that aren't blockbusters but offer something for different demographics of people.

I believe that Microsoft concentrates more of its first party dev resources on the 18-35 gamer, but obviously will publish family and casual titles when the opportunity arises.

I believe that games like bloodborne and the order do not need to be "system sellers" to be regarded as a success and they are much more likely to energise an already established PS4 install base than to convice new players to jump in and buy the platform.

I have not said that Sony is better for families or Causals than microsoft, Only that they use their money for first party development differently and it has been this way for a while now.

Since you like editing your posts after the fact a lot, I will respond to this. If someone isn't chasing the young/family demographic to their consoles it is ABSOLUTELY a concern for the market at large and not just the one manufacturer who still gives a shit about demographics outside of the 18-35yo male. I hope John Harker is still reading the thread, as he is much more eloquent about it (and has the data at his fingertips). If you don't see the actual trends for those outside the core market then either you are being willfully ignorant of the current market reality or you don't give a shit about market churn and are just focused on the narrow tunnel you're currently presenting. Gaming has never been bigger and more inclusive to more people. They're just... not currently playing them on this generation of consoles. The majority of software focus for the near and long term future suggests that they won't be. It's a simple cause and effect without the need for mental gymnastics.









Really?



Indeed.

First. Party.

You can hold both the position that the PS4 as a platform still doesn't have a lot for casuals and families and still note the difference in first party output from the two publishers.

Also, if Nintendo cared what the wider gaming demographics wanted, they wouldn't be in the trouble they are in. They refuse to conform to the needs of their customers and are suffering for it, it really is that simple.

 

[JaggedSac]

Well, what was he supposed to say back then?

"Well, I don't know, let's see what happens and when I don't like what I see I burn everything to the ground!" ???

The XBOX division actually doesn't fit into MS' future portfolio strategy, where everything is about service and "digital". They don't need an XBOX division (or other hardware like the Surface tablets) to push that new agenda.

Hence, if the division does not generate positive cash flows very soon, it will either be sold or closed (at the end of the One's life cycle, of course).

What I wanted to point out with this little essay is that Microsoft - The Corporation doesn't have to worry bout things like "income" these days. But the XBOX division most certainly does.

The two divisions that Xbox is in made profits for the last 3 months ending Sept 30.

In millions.

Computing and Gaming Hardware​

$479​

Devices and Consumer Other​

$312​

And no, I know what you are thinking, but Android patents go here:

Devices and Consumer Licensing​

$ 3,818​

So next we talk about what else are in those divisions besides Xbox right?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

double

 

[smurfx]

It over, pack it up

 

[anexanhume]

Beautiful

 

[Smether]

This thread has been great from the beginning.

Glad to see the price cuts and bundles worked for MS. They were extremely aggressive price wise.

 

[Rymuth]

Man, Phil's let himself go...stress eating, maybe?

 

[JackLongRod]

Which directors? I remember reading some garbage articles from a couple analysts.



So irrelevant that they just plopped it into Office.

1. Stephen elop has been rumored to wanting to sell bing and Xbox.

2. Bill gates says he would support selling off Xbox/bing if microsoft decides to.

3. Mason morfit and at least 2 other board members publicly unknown probably for good reasons and other hedgefunds that own stock. The board members wanted ballmer gone and guess what ? He's not CEO anymore is he ?

It's a service developed by Microsoft for Microsoft products where the fuck else are they gonna put it ? What's so hard to understand about that. That's like saying Siri would be relevant if Apple decided to integrate it into iPods, desktops and laptops.

Get real

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Do we really know what Cboat was meaning when he said 7-10k diff? Because coincidently that seems about the LtD difference in platforms. As in 710k through Cboat speak. Can't see why he'd actually mean 7-10k difference when he'd know we'd find out.

 

[orochi91]

MS is poised to have another mega-holiday season with regards to sales in NA (and UK) 2015.

Halo 5
Forza 6
Tomb Raider
Possibly even QB
Possibly even Scale Bound

Not to mention the bevy of AAA 3rd-party games to come.

Their strategy of hoarding all these exclusive + aggressive pricing for the holidays is brilliant.

It actually works lol

 

[allan-bh]

Do we really know what Cboat was meaning when he said 7-10k diff? Because coincidently that seems about the LtD difference in platforms. As in 710k through Cboat speak. Can't see why he'd actually mean 7-10k difference when he'd know we'd find out.

LTD difference is bigger, 7-10k (710k) doesn't make sense, not even for rounded diff.

 

[Avatar1]

MS is poised to have another mega-holiday season with regards to sales in NA (and UK) 2015.

Halo 5
Forza 6
Tomb Raider
Possibly even QB
Possibly even Scale Bound

Not to mention the bevy of AAA 3rd-party games to come.

Their strategy of hoarding all these exclusive + aggressive pricing for the holidays is brilliant.

It actually works lol

It worked for exactly 2 months so far? And in one of those months they were giving the console away? I don't know. I'd think we need more data before we call this brilliant.

Nov or Dec 2013 (forget which) and Nov 2014.

 

[EatMyFace]

Lmao. Cmon dude. The ps4 is just as much of a "dudebro" console as the bone. Maybe a smidgen less due to highly polished affairs like knack and amazingly selling platformers like LBP but the focus of the console is squarely the 18-35 year old male. Which is why people whom you openly disparage on the forums are showing concern for the long term health of the console market.

PS4 has way more indie support. I'd say that makes it a much friendlier console for hardcore gamers who like that kind of thing.

Spoiler

Yes, indies are real games.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Just noticed that Best Buy and Target are both offering a DS4 charger with every PS4 purchase. PS4 will win December NPDs.

 

[Hubble]

It is lol when Microsoft finally has a major success in arguably one of the most important months, that people here are posting about selling the Xbox brand.

 

[JackLongRod]

MS is poised to have another mega-holiday season with regards to sales in NA (and UK) 2015.

Halo 5
Forza 6
Tomb Raider
Possibly even QB
Possibly even Scale Bound

Not to mention the bevy of AAA 3rd-party games to come.

Their strategy of hoarding all these exclusive + aggressive pricing for the holidays is brilliant.

It actually works lol

when was Forza 6 announced ?
I can see tomb raider getting delayed
QB and scale bound aren't coming in 2015

 

[Avatar1]

PS4 has way more indie support. I'd say that makes it a much friendlier console for hardcore gamers who like that kind of thing.

Spoiler

Yes, indies are real games.

Yes and yes. So far the game I have the most overall hours in is Don't Starve. Brilliant game and totally unique. I think the indies are more exciting than the AAA this gen (aside from driveclub and titan fall.

 

[BeforeU]

when was Forza 6 announced ?
I can see tomb raider getting delayed
QB and scale bound aren't coming in 2015

Quantum Break not coming in 2015? wtf? Source?

And Forza comes every other year. No need for the announcement. Will probably hear about it during E3.

And why would you think TR be delayed? :S

 

[Katana_Strikes]

LTD difference is bigger, 7-10k (710k) doesn't make sense, not even for rounded diff.

Oh what's the gap now?

I thought the PS4 had a sales lead of about 1.1m before November and with XBone selling 400k more that made sense but I guess my figures were off.

 

[Avatar1]

Quantum Break not coming in 2015? wtf? Source?

And Forza comes every other year. No need for the announcement. Will probably hear about it during E3.

And why would you think TR be delayed? :S

It is definitely 2015? Source?

also, the Halo, Forza, Gears never-ending cycle begins anew. How exciting. At least Sony first party is attempting new games in different genres. (Shrugs).

Oh well. Carry on with the console wars.

 

[Steverulez]

Quantum Break not coming in 2015? wtf? Source?

And Forza comes every other year. No need for the announcement. Will probably hear about it during E3.

And why would you think TR be delayed? :S

QB is due out in 2015.

TR won't get delayed and Forza is guaranteed

 

[Avatar1]

QB is due out in 2015.

TR won't get delayed and Forza is guaranteed

I agree with this. Microsoft will get them out even if it means another "we'll fix it later" situation.

 

[JaggedSac]

1. Stephen elop has been rumored to wanting to sell bing and Xbox.

Well, since Elop didn't become CEO, he can't do jack shit, lol. It was a play to garner support...and guess what, he isn't CEO, lol.

2. Bill gates says he would support selling off Xbox/bing if microsoft decides to.

He said he would support Nadella in whatever he decided, selling or not. It was a comment of support for the CEO, nothing else.

3. Mason morfit and at least 2 other board members publicly unknown probably for good reasons and other hedgefunds that own stock. The board members wanted ballmer gone and guess what ? He's not CEO anymore is he ?

Ballmer was pushed out for his insistence on purchasing Nokia and his increasingly abrasive attitude towards the board. Even Bill supported his departure.

It's a service developed by Microsoft for Microsoft products where the fuck else are they gonna put it ? What's so hard to understand about that. That's like saying Siri would be relevant if Apple decided to integrate it into iPods, desktops and laptops.

Get real

Of course that would make it more relevant. Lol.

Get real.

 

[anexanhume]

Oh what's the gap now?

I thought the PS4 had a sales lead of about 1.1m before November and with XBone selling 400k more that made sense but I guess my figures were off.

There was deleted data that led to an estimate within a Jackson of the incorrectly extrapolated CBOAT quote.

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

It is definitely 2015? Source?

also, the Halo, Forza, Gears never-ending cycle begins anew. How exciting. At least Sony first party is attempting new games in different genres. (Shrugs).

Oh well. Carry on with the console wars.

Awful, you're gonna miss great games next year. (Scalebound, QB)

 

[1st Course]

The two divisions that Xbox is in made profits for the last 3 months ending Sept 30.

In millions.

Computing and Gaming Hardware​

$479​

Devices and Consumer Other​

$312​

And no, I know what you are thinking, but Android patents go here:

Devices and Consumer Licensing​

$ 3,818​

So next we talk about what else are in those divisions besides Xbox right?

Gross margin =/= profit. Very far from it.

Gross margin simply is just sales - cost of sales, it doesn't account for fixed/overhead costs like interest payments, labour, R&D costs, administration, marketing etc.

 

[JaggedSac]

Gross margin =/= profit. Very far from it.

Gross margin simply is just sales - cost of sales, it doesn't account for fixed/overhead costs like interest payments, labour, R&D costs, administration, marketing etc.

None of that is considered cost of sales? Strange not to include those items on a financial report.

 

[1st Course]

None of that is considered cost of sales?

Cost of sales here = production cost. Sry should've worded it better.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

So next we talk about what else are in those divisions besides Xbox right?

Hm, no, because first of all we would have to talk the difference between gross margin, profit and cash flow from operations and stuff like that. And I really, really have no intention to do that on NeoGAF . Let's make a long story short and aggree, that those in charge for XBOX do not have unlimited resources.

 

[Avatar1]

Awful, you're gonna miss great games next year. (Scalebound, QB)

I have a bone sir. I'm a gamer first. I prefer playstation (right now) but that can change.

I'm excited for QB but for scale bound I get excited for... games...not cgi trailers.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

None of that is considered cost of sales? Strange not to include those items on a financial report.

They do, on corporate level, but not for their segments.

 

[JaggedSac]

Hm, no, because first of all we would have to talk the difference between gross margin, profit and cash flow from operations and stuff like that. And I really, really have no intention to do that on NeoGAF . Let's make a long story short and aggree, that those in charge for XBOX do not have unlimited resources.

Oh, I never said they did have unlimited resources.

They do, on corporate level, but not for their segments.

So it makes it impossible to determine profitability of any single division?

 

[Aquamarine]

Oh what's the gap now?

I thought the PS4 had a sales lead of about 1.1m before November and with XBone selling 400k more that made sense but I guess my figures were off.

As of November 2014:

PS4's LTD in the USA is 5.62 million.

XB1's LTD in the USA is 4.89 million.


Therefore, the LTD gap between them is ~0.73 million.

There is no possible way that CBOAT would have meant "710K" or 0.71 million because he's ~0.02 million off from the real LTD...that's beyond the allowable margin of error or any applicable rounding error if he actually had numbers.


The only logical explanation is that he was sabotaged by some sort of third-party.