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[Sho_Nuff82]

The point is SO doesn't have European sales to save it like Insomniacs PS3 titles, and I'd dispute SO isn't doing bad in PAL territories just on the evidence of XBO's flatlining sales in the region.

If you want to talk about PAL sales, we can do it in the PAL threads. We don't have numbers, but based on rankings, it's not doing badly. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that SO will probably ship over a million when it's all said and done, bundles included.

 

[theprodigy]

I thought the Wii beat the PS3 in Europe?

I think so, there's a tendency to assume Europe=the rest of the world outside of US/Japan and it's kind of weird

also regarding PS360, the main point is that they are extremely close, not about the PS3's extremely slim margin currently

 

[GamerJM]

I've said this before but my issue with a "handheld that plugs into the TV," is that I feel like that the platform would either have to be less powerful than the Wii U (which would lead to games feeling like a downgrade compared to the Wii U, which the platform would hypothetically be replacing), or the portable version would have huge battery life problems.

 

[ZSaberLink]

That 68k for Wii U isn't just last month's number +47%, is it? Because Wii U hardware is simply up 47 percent for the entire year (as I interpret the statement). That would mean this particular month could be much higher or lower.

Last month's # + 47% would be way too good in a shorter month (aka like 140K). The calculations are done correctly.

 

[SparkTR]

Uh, what about last gen? The gen before (PS2/Xbox/Cube) I would have said the same thing but Wii/360/PS3 all did rather well.

The PS2/Xbox/GC gen was propelled by a massive influx of new gamers and investments. Microsoft entering the industry and throwing around billions was a massive boon for console gaming, plus all the new consumers to sell to. That positive outlook is what purred those companies to go all out last generation. Conditions aren't going to be as rosy this time around, no corporation wants to touch dedicated gaming hardware these days and the consumer-base isn't going to match that of last generation.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Are they making any money off of the Wii U, especially compared to how its limiting their software sales?

Serious question.

I understand the reluctance to drop an arm that was once profitable, but if it doesn't work anymore it's about as useful as Walkman is to Sony right now.

The handheld is clearly working though, at least as best as it can. That could change at some point, but currently speaking.

Nintendo dropping home console hardware is as much a work of fantasy dreaming as it is for them to publish games for Playstation

I think we would need that new QOL arm to get cut off first before those guys wake up and see that their home console business is really this piss poor mess

they seem to be doubling down on WiiU support

 

[John Bender]

..ship over a million when it's all said and done, bundles included.

Hm, I wouldn't call that "good" either.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Not surprised about SO at all. Felt like it had no real hype anywhere besides GAF, but then again, The evil within was a huge shock, so who knows.

I still bought the white SO bundle, but that was purely for the aesthetics of the system. Will probably sell the digital copy for cheap.

I never felt it had hype here, the largest thread or one of the largest was about the game being 900p or it was "too slow"

I'm glad I bought it, I think its great.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Sunset

This is why we can't have nice things in AAA space anymore.

It's also why console exclusivity sucks

 

[GuiltyBystander]

Dat pre-emptive damage control PR spin by Microsoft yesterday.

:")

 

[ratcliffja]

I can't help but feel like this would be a bad idea. It's tantamount to jumping on a sinking ship and could completely backfire on them. Then what would they do?

Their portable market is by far their most profitable sector. Additionally, it seems that portable devices in general are the way gaming and multimedia as a whole are going. I think the Wii U's successor will have the console be the tablet itself, with a cheaper Chromecast like device to play on the TV. That device might also be hooked up to a 3DS successor as well. Essentially it could act like a tablet device with buttons and a stick instead of some game controller with a screen.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I thought they had an MK8 bundle as essentially their Black Friday salvo.

Anyway, since we're waiting for numbers if they ever arrive; given Nirolak's pretty accurate assessment earlier I have to wonder whether divesting is considered an option at all over in Kyoto. It's probably the most appropriate strategy at least from a theoretical perspective.

We're in an increasingly competitive market, with ever more ways to play. Their differential advantages essentially all lie in software brands. The market they are able to attract, the Nintendo-core or Nintendads as Wedbush calls them isn't substantial enough overall despite their loyalty.

Yay or nay? I'm guessing a lot of nay.

 

[ethomaz]

I think it's neck n neck

Well PS3 shipped 800k units in each last two quarters... I think it is putting at least a 1 million lead right now.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Last gen was all over the place.

WW Wii > 360 > PS3
Europe PS3 > Wii > 360
US 360 > Wii > PS3
Japan Wii > PS3 > 360

The Wii is still slightly ahead of the 360 in the US. It's more like Wii >= 360 > PS3 atm.

 

[maxcriden]

Nintendo dropping home console hardware is as much a work of fantasy dreaming as it is for them to publish games for Playstation

I think we would need that new QOL arm to get cut off first before those guys wake up and see that their home console business is really this piss poor mess

they seem to be doubling down on WiiU support

This is my feeling as well. I have high hopes for Nintendo's QOL though. If the sleep sensor is anything like Wii Fit, I'll be there night one.

(then again, perhaps a midnight launch for the Nintendo Snoozii (too Jersey Shore?) would be counterintuitive....)

 

[GuiltyBystander]

It's also why console exclusivity sucks

Regardless of the quality of that SO. I just don't think that game has much mass appeal.

 

[dancrane212]

At least Sunset Overdrive has a reason to be not on the NPD with it coming out so late in the month/bundles not counting/on a single platform but Alien not making the list is tragic. I really enjoyed that game, it's a bummer to see it performing so badly.

 

[Nirolak]

Genuinely, I'm not sure. I'm sure someone much more numbers-savvy knows. That's not a deflection of course, but my understanding was that even Nintendo's weaker-selling hardware has generally helped them make enough to be worthwhile, between hardware itself, royalties, and not having to pay royalties to another publisher. So I'm speculating here and I'd be glad to be corrected if I'm mistaken. I do think a portable you can play on your TV doesn't have to be any significantly more powerful than a Wii U is (but is that already shooting for the moon?) as I don't believe graphics are of utmost importance to most Nintendo fans.

Modern Tegra parts are very competent and cost effective. It's probably the best bet currently if someone wanted to do that and have something that at least looked pretty similar to a Wii U. If we're talking a couple more years down the line then we'd be a lot closer to boot.

As for the other part of the question, I would say it depends on how much they can sell versus what they're selling on Wii U. There's no third party royalties on Wii U as it stands (since there's basically no third party games), so they'd have to make up the $12 a unit in licensing fees in terms of unit increase at minimum if we assume the hardware is break even between R&D and sales.

Nintendo dropping home console hardware is as much a work of fantasy dreaming as it is for them to publish games for Playstation

I think we would need that new QOL arm to get cut off first before those guys wake up and see that their home console business is really this piss poor mess

they seem to be doubling down on WiiU support

That's why I started the conversation as I did, which was assuming that Nintendo viewed launching a home console as an immutable fact, even if it's not necessarily an optimal business decision.

However, I think there's room for going "Well it would make more sense to do A, but assuming they're not doing A, here's what I feel is their best option for B."

 

[maxcriden]

I thought they had an MK8 bundle as essentially their Black Friday salvo.

Anyway, since we're waiting for numbers if they ever arrive; given Nirolak's pretty accurate assessment earlier I have to wonder whether divesting is considered an option at all over in Kyoto. It's probably the most appropriate strategy at least from a theoretical perspective.

Yay or nay? I'm guessing a lot of nay.

Can I ask for a layman's explanation of what this would mean?

 

[QuantumZebra]

Regardless of the quality of that SO. I just don't think that game has much mass appeal.

I would really like to play SO but I just can't buy an X1. Insomniac is a great dev and I wish it would have done better.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Hm, I wouldn't call that "good" either.

So what were your expectations going in? Crackdown shipped a little over 1.5 million and it got a sequel. Two in fact, even though the second did worse.

 

[Cyriades]

At least Sunset Overdrive has a reason to be not on the NPD with it coming out so late in the month/bundles not counting/on a single platform but Alien not making the list is tragic. I really enjoyed that game, it's a bummer to see it performing so badly.

Pick the wrong horse.

 

[ninjablade]

Bayonetta and overdrive bombing is not a surprise.

 

[allan-bh]

Well PS3 shipped 800k units in each last two quarters... I think it is putting at least a 1 million lead right now.

360 had more shipments than PS3 in first quarter 2014, so we really don't know the situation now.

 

[Nirolak]

Can I ask for a layman's explanation of what this would mean?

Divesting is the opposite of investing. Essentially I think he means would the best option be to drop at least home console hardware, focus on their notable strength as a software developer, and try to make more money by getting on everything possible.

There are a lot of hardware companies in tech industries that have essentially transitioned to being service and/or IP based, which is what this would be similar to.

Even Microsoft for example is now putting out Office for free on iPad despite the fact they make their own tablet, and AMD and IBM don't have hardware foundries anymore.

 

[John Bender]

The Wii is still slightly ahead of the 360 in the US. It's more like Wii >= 360 > PS3 atm.

In the US? No! 360 is ahead of the Wii since (end of) 2013.

 

[spwolf]

My Mistake
looks like its only for Europe


http://www.pcgames.de/Little-Big-Planet-3-PS4-258893/News/PS4-Bundle-in-Kuerze-erhaeltlich-1137999/

there was some discussion that there will be LBP family bundle, but that did not materialize. Still, Sony seems to have "guessed" right with GTA... they really picked the best possible game to bundle with TLoU

 

[Astral Dog]

They've already said goodbye to third party royalties.

They could have a chance with another strategy, imagine if they dropped the 3DS too? having decent sales still and support from Japan.

But they would need to design a console more in common with Western tastes/development, with an aggresive price, and most important, fresh markerting.

Can they do it? i dont know, but just going third party can be a huge risk too.

 

[maxcriden]

Modern Tegra parts are very competent and cost effective. It's probably the best bet currently if someone wanted to do that and have something that at least looked pretty similar to a Wii U. If we're talking a couple more years down the line then we'd be a lot closer to boot.

As for the other part of the question, I would say it depends on how much they can sell versus what they're selling on Wii U. There's no third party royalties on Wii U as it stands (since there's basically no third party games), so they'd have to make up the $12 a unit in licensing fees in terms of unit increase at minimum if we assume the hardware is break even between R&D and sales.

Thanks for the info! If it's technically a realistic option, then, I could readily see this being the sweet spot for Nintendo next time around, depending on how it's sold to consumers.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Can I ask for a layman's explanation of what this would mean?

Essentially exit. But it's more nuanced in terms of approach, time frame, customer transfer.

The major impediment is probably that their other business line is also facing serious issues.

 

[Portugeezer]

No Hindle to fight the good fight and remind us MS sold more in the last 2 weeks.

 

[John Bender]

So what were your expectations going in? Crackdown shipped a little over 1.5 million and it got a sequel. Two in fact, even though the second did worse.

Didn't expect anything different. And I'm not talking about possible sequels.
I'm just saying these aren't good sales ("shipping ~1 mio) for a AAA game.

 

[GamerJM]

They could have a chance with another strategy, imagine if they dropped the 3DS too? having decent sales still and support from Japan.

But they would need to design a console more in common with Western tastes/development, with an aggresive price, and most important, fresh markerting.

Can they do it? i dont know, but just going third party can have be a huge risk too.

I think they either need to do that (which I don't know if they could feasibly do to be honest), or strike gold with something as unique and mass market as the Wii again.

Really Nintendo is in a tough spot right now. There's a lot of options for them to take with their next platform and none of them are easy to pull off.

 

[Nirolak]

Thanks for the info! If it's technically a realistic option, then, I could readily see this being the sweet spot for Nintendo next time around, depending on how it's sold to consumers.

There were some hints they might be considering this between Miyamoto's software statements and an even older statement from Iwata about increasing the number of SKUs (hardware configurations), but essentially having them share a foundational platform base.

Now, this could mean common APIs that make porting between platforms easier, or it could mean they all use basically the same hardware a la iOS devices (especially last year, where the iPhone 5S, iPad Air, and iPad Mini 2 all used the same processor) and run all the same software despite being different form factors and products you can buy.

You can essentially sell people on the hardware configuration they like the most (or multiple if they want a home and portable version) and then just sell them games that work on any of the devices so you effectively only have to support one platform.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

No Hindle to fight the good fight and remind us MS sold more in the last 2 weeks.

I would rather someone see a gaming platform and its games do well rather than mock it. We are supposedly all gamers here.

 

[theprodigy]

In the US? No! 360 is ahead of the WiiU since (end of) 2013.

even disregarding the obvious typo, no it actually hasn't yet (it should by the end of the year though)

 

[Super_Cobra]

I'm not sure why people think sunset overdrive will chart next month. Most sales of a game are usually on the first few day when they are available. It bombed plain and simple just like driveclub.
Insomniac had to be really money hungry to take that xbone deal and make it exclusive. But a lot of people thought the xbone was going to dominate the ps4 and that's probably what they thought too.
I would laugh so hard if the ps4 comes out winning next month. Which it has a really strong chance. Word of mouth is more important than a price drop.

 

[freefornow]

At least Sunset Overdrive has a reason to be not on the NPD with it coming out so late in the month/bundles not counting/on a single platform but Alien not making the list is tragic. I really enjoyed that game, it's a bummer to see it performing so badly.

AI May have done alright digitally.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

even disregarding the obvious typo, no it actually hasn't yet (it should by the end of the year though)

It was within 100k units last I knew, but that's just going off of memory.

 

[John Bender]

even disregarding the obvious typo, no it actually hasn't yet (it should by the end of the year though)

Hasn't? My sources were wrong then.

 

[Popnbake]

About amiibo: I'd say part of the kids audience could be interested. I'm actually wondering if some of them could be interested in just the toys, without having a Wii U.

As potential toys, I don't think Nintendo characters have as much pull with today's kids as they used to when you have games like Minecraft and Angry Birds. Still they are relatively cheap so it could work.

@Niro, mostly agree, would respond more in depth but have to run.I think Amiibo will be good for generating revenue, but will largely be aimed at their (Nintendo-)core audience, so won't really end up moving hardware. But it's still a good way to increase monetisation of their current installed base.

I'm not sure how Amiibos are going to perform with Nintendo's core audience.

They don't provide much meaningful content to their games and the main use for Smash provides a leveling character you cannot control.
Outside of those who wish to collect them I'm not seeing the necessary incentive for the core audience to be interested in purchasing multiple figures.

Wii u numbers shock me every month.

Why on earth are the sitting out black Friday?

There's a bundle for Best Buy's Black Friday but other than that? No clue.

 

[maxcriden]

Divesting is the opposite of investing. Essentially I think he means would the best option be to drop at least home console hardware, focus on their notable strength as a software developer, and try to make more money by getting on everything possible.

There are a lot of hardware companies in tech industries that have essentially transitioned to being service and/or IP based, which is what this would be similar to.

Even Microsoft for example is now putting out Office for free on iPad despite the fact they make their own tablet, and AMD and IBM don't have hardware foundries anymore.

Essentially exit. But it's more nuanced in terms of approach, time frame, customer transfer.

The major impediment is probably that their other business line is also facing serious issues.

I see. Thank you both. While I'm happy whatever the setup provided Nintendo games are plentiful and quality, I do have trouble picturing this for at least a few years; I think amiibo and QoL would probably both have to bomb. I'm very curious how amiibo will do, though. On the one hand, I'm thinking kids will know they'd need a Wii U to utilize them at present, and...kids don't have Wii Us. On the other hand, maybe kids will just want them as neat toys with the promise of future 3DS functionality...?

 

[Percy]

Guess Sunset Overdrive was a bomb. Insomniac keeping their streak going across generations I guess.

Dat Smash tho. Only exclusive worth a shit this month it appears.

 

[GamerJM]

Hasn't? My sources were wrong then.

Expectations are not representative of actual sales

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

Never change Aaron

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/533051643290337280

 

[rokkerkory]

Guess Sunset Overdrive was a bomb. Insomniac keeping their streak going across generations I guess.

Dat Smash tho. Only exclusive worth a shit this month it appears.

I don't know about that. Unique sku at #9 on the charts isn't bad not including the bundles which is pretty much sold out.

 

[Astral Dog]

Bayonetta and overdrive bombing is not a surprise.

Yes,its not surprising,Platinum game and colorful xbox insomniac game, the best games of the month too
Im beggining to dislike this industry,

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm not sure why people think sunset overdrive will chart next month. Most sales of a game are usually on the first few day when they are available. It bombed plain and simple just like driveclub.
Insomniac had to be really money hungry to take that xbone deal and make it exclusive. But a lot of people thought the xbone was going to dominate the ps4 and that's probably what they thought too.
I would laugh so hard if the ps4 comes out winning next month. Which it has a really strong chance. Word of mouth is more important than a price drop.

Looking at it logically (like the Bayonetta situation), would SO even exist if it weren't for MS offering to publish it? For it to be a multiplatform game, they need one of the big 3rd party pubs to step up to the plate, and we saw what a focus-tested mess FUSE turned out to be under EA's banner. Insomniac is already publishing a game with Sony next fall, they hedged their bets.

 

[Y2Kev]

I'm still not sure practically what a unified platform does for nintendo from a sales perspective. Their console business is kaput IMO unless there is very serious design reinvention (which is very possible). The handheld market is in irreversible and undeniable decline. What does a unified platform do except reduce nintendo's cost base? They are going to be facing revenue pressure for the foreseeable future. If the core idea is that one platform means nintendo can pad out the lineup a little easier--making it more feasible to "go it alone" as it were--then I think the long term objective should be dramatic investment to grow top line, not ebitda margins.

I don't really get the strategy but I am struggling to visualize the product. I am sure it will be great when it does come out.

But what they are doing with the 3ds is baffling to me. That thing wouldn't vroom if you put 60,000 volts in it.

 

[Nirolak]

I see. Thank you both. While I'm happy whatever the setup provided Nintendo games are plentiful and quality, I do have trouble picturing this for at least a few years; I think amiibo and QoL would probably both have to bomb. I'm very curious how amiibo will do, though. On the one hand, I'm thinking kids will know they'd need a Wii U to utilize them at present, and...kids don't have Wii Us. On the other hand, maybe kids will just want them as neat toys with the promise of future 3DS functionality...?

They've basically stated in recent investor conferences that at minimum they're launching one more home console.

This is solely a hypothetical discussion about the results of their current platform position.