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[ZehDon]

FSR4 is solid.

In the titles that support it, I hear it's good. It's not transformer model DLSS good, though. Which is kind of the point: if you want modern games at their best, NVidia is the market. If you want cheaper, sure, AMD can offer you something. But there is a reason for NVidia's dominant position.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

gpu vendor statistics for steam users are

Other	0.36%
Intel	7.44%
AMD	17.32%
NVIDIA	74.88%

AMD +2% since last year.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

Steam Hardware Survey shows the usage numbers for effectively every PC gamer who uses Steam, which is effectively all of them

So it's good for seeing the totality of PC gaming ownership of hardware but if you were more interested in how the recent generations of products are doing you need to look at individual product percentages

Unless you actually think the people still using Radeon 580 or Intel iGPU's are actually relevant to how good Nvidia, AMD, and Intel are doing today

 

[Gaiff]

gpu vendor statistics for steam users are

Other	0.36%
Intel	7.44%
AMD	17.32%
NVIDIA	74.88%

AMD +2% since last year.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

This data includes iGPUs. This is strictly about discrete GPUs, aka, dedicated graphics cards.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

In the titles that support it, I hear it's good. It's not transformer model DLSS good, though. Which is kind of the point: if you want modern games at their best, NVidia is the market. If you want cheaper, sure, AMD can offer you something. But there is a reason for NVidia's dominant position.

The problem is that AMD isn't really cheaper these days so there's really no reason to choose AMD at all over Nvidia and market share reflects this

 

[Tobimacoss]

Does AMD have a equivalent to Reflex thats gets shipped in many games. Does it ger turned on as an invisible setting when using AMD's Frame Gen?

Anti-lag as part of the Hype RX suite.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/software/adrenalin/hypr-rx.html

 

[Hero_Select]

Are the margins on GPUs this tight to where AMD can only undercut Nvidia by 50-100$ or is AMD just not wanting to sell them because.. for whatever reason?

GPUs are really expensive. If someone is going to buy one they'll go Nvidia because they're just better, especially when the prices are close enough.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Gaming is a rounding error in regards to the marketshare on this chart. The reason Nvidia marketshare is jumping isn't because of gaming revenue or sales from retailers. It's because of datacenters. A good chunk of that jump in marketshare is purely because of B2B sales where businesses buy giant fucking stocks of them to generate anime AI porn, drain the planet of water, and steal voice actors' sonic likenesses.

Gaming is not the reason Nvidia is succeeding this much.

So we add GPUs used for B2B for marketshare but then don't include gaming APUs which consoles and PC handhelds use?

Just be more skeptical of such figures when they seem absurd, that's all I'm saying.

 

[StereoVsn]

It's cheaper by $50. The 5070 Ti can be found at its $750 MSRP and the cheapest 9070 XT is $700, $100 above its advertised MSRP.

Hmm… I didn't realize that 5070Ti dropped back to MSRP. I guess we are back to Nvidia -$50 model, in US at least. Maybe it's better in Europe.

 

[StereoVsn]

How's DLSS perform on it? Therein lies the problem.

FSR4 is pretty darn good. It's better vs DLSS 3.x and not that far from DLSS 4.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Are the margins on GPUs this tight to where AMD can only undercut Nvidia by 50-100$ or is AMD just not wanting to sell them because.. for whatever reason?

Both

TSMC charges a lot of money to manufacture chips for everybody, which means high end GPU's will all cost a lot no matter how much AMD wants to claw market share away from Nvidia. AMD refuses to take a loss on every GPU sold which is smart

At the same time, TSMC has very limited production capacity as they now supply >90% of the world's advanced semiconductors. AMD has their allocation of chips from TSMC and they would prefer to produce CPU's which they can sell a lot of at a profit

What I'm saying is don't get mad at Nvidia or AMD for the current state of the GPU industry. If you absolutely insist on getting mad at somebody, get mad at TSMC. And realistically, don't get mad at TSMC. Get mad at Xi Jinping and China. TSMC behaves the way they do because of how geopolitically critical they are to the world's technology industry and they are very defensive of their market advantage because everyone knows that if TSMC wasn't out there producing >90% of the world's semiconductors and being so critical to the world economy, Chairman Xi would have invaded and conquered Taiwan by now

 

[winjer]

Is this the usual German AMD store that keeps /r/AMD on hopium for the last decade?

It's not even in the steam hardware survey after 6 months. How would DIY segment not show up on gaming focus surveys like steam? Almost all of Blackwell are on it

Because the diy market is tiny.
The vast majority of people don't build their own PC.

 

[DenchDeckard]

This is what happens when you release an amazing 9070 xt card but ignore the rest of the stack. 9060 xt isnt good enough and AMD gave them the higher end market.

 

[twilo99]

Eh, 9070XT is on par with 5070Ti and mostly cheaper by $100+. It's a good card.

It doesn't matter

 

[buenoblue]

My guess is that amd gpu prebuilts just don't sell so stores only end up stocking nvidia systems.

You have to be significantly better at the same price or significantly cheaper. AMD are neither.

Plus DLSS technologies are legitimately a league ahead from what AMD has.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It doesn't matter

… because at this point people are just buying the brand and they know nVIDIA and they feel that a 5060 8 GB is still part of the 5090 16 GB family (Halo effect fallacy)?

 

[Bojji]

nice, so means that nvidia gpu is going to get even more expensive in the future.PCMR is going to get that VVIP treatment they wish for.

And what consoles folks will get from Sony monopoly in console space? Hmmm....

PS5 price to rise in Europe, Australia and New Zealand

Disc Drive for PS5 price will also be reduced in these regions.

blog.playstation.com

PlayStation 5 price changes in the U.S.

New prices effective starting on August 21.

blog.playstation.com

People buy better product and this leads to monopoly -> now they have to pay extra for the same product.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And what consoles folks will get from Sony monopoly in console space? Hmmm....

PS5 price to rise in Europe, Australia and New Zealand

Disc Drive for PS5 price will also be reduced in these regions.

blog.playstation.com

PlayStation 5 price changes in the U.S.

New prices effective starting on August 21.

blog.playstation.com

People buy better product and this leads to monopoly -> now they have to pay extra for the same product.

Prices have been rising for all consoles including Switch 2 over Switch 1, come on mate, you are being disingenuous here comparing consoles and PC GPUs.

 

[ReBurn]

Still, there are too many Generative AI models,

Even if we see mass AI adoption (which somewhat already happened, it's an app anyone can download) they are not going to cost $20 a month forever unless OpenAI starts filling each prompt with 60 second long ads.

These models are all being paid by government and investors throwing money hoping more computing power leads to AGI.

Every new venture is funded by investors and governments. That's not a negative in any way. That's how pretty much every innovation that gets traction gets off the ground.

There are a lot of models overall, but there's not too many viable models. There are only few organizations out there making models that are worth paying attention to right now. Google and OpenAI keep one-upping each other. Anthropic and Meta are falling behind. There are too many privacy concerns around hosted Chinese models, so using those is risky even if they perform well.

Generative models aren't what is receiving the most attention right now, reasoning models are. And those are improving really well. In the next year or so they're going to improve task automation in ways that current "AI powered" workflow won't be able to touch.

We are already at a point where the average person can download an open source model and run it on relatively reasonably priced hardware through free software harnesses. Pretty much anyone can download and run OpenAI gpt-oss 20b via LM Studio completely free right now and run it within a 16gb ram profile. It can eliminate the need to pay for a monthly subscription for many tasks. I can run several mini models at the same time and chain tasks using different models, all completely disconnected from the internet. Its moving that fast and it's that good. If you run the models on a GPU you can do some really cool stuff very quickly and the tools all target CUDA.

Thats why Nvidia GPU's are going to continue to stay on top. We're already at a point where a mid-sized company can wire a couple of 5080 or 5090 PC's into their network and power in-house RAG apps and AI agents written in Python using open source models. And without spending millions per year on the enterprise sales cycle. It's one of the reason prices will stay high. Gamers are going to be competing with corporations for supply.

 

[Bojji]

Prices have been rising for all consoles including Switch 2 over Switch 1, come on mate, you are being disingenuous here comparing consoles and PC GPUs.

Sony is dominant in traditional console space and Nintendo in their own market - they can raise prices however they want.

With strong competition this wouldn't happen.

 

[SolidQ]

9060 xt isnt good enough

NewEgg top5, also in other shops it's selling well. The problem is OEM, where aka mom's PC are getting market share for NV

 

[SantaC]

NVidia are just that far ahead in terms of their product, frankly.

Not really. AMD released a midsize GPU as their highend with old GDDR6 memory and small DIE. Yet it performs as good as a 5080 in some titles. Says more about lack of effort from Nvidia than AMD really.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

People buy better product and this leads to monopoly -> now they have to pay extra for the same product.

Really?

PS5 or Series X, which is better product?

Certainly not the one with a GAAS initiative.

 

[Bojji]

Really?

PS5 or Series X, which is better product?

Certainly not the one with a GAAS initiative.

You see how many bought PS5 over SX?

Of course Xbox may be the better product for YOU but for MAJORITY of people it's PS5. Same is true with Nvidia and AMD.

 

[M1987]

DLSS4 is too good, Nvidia has my business. FSR just isn't nearly as good

FSR4 is not that far behind DLSS4

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You see how many bought PS5 over SX?

Of course Xbox may be the better product for YOU but for MAJORITY of people it's PS5. Same is true with Nvidia and AMD.

Availability, pricing matters a lot.

Thats where both AMD and Xbox are loosing currently.

Previous gens, sure nvidia/ sony had better products.

 

[demigod]

And what consoles folks will get from Sony monopoly in console space? Hmmm....

PS5 price to rise in Europe, Australia and New Zealand

Disc Drive for PS5 price will also be reduced in these regions.

blog.playstation.com

PlayStation 5 price changes in the U.S.

New prices effective starting on August 21.

blog.playstation.com

People buy better product and this leads to monopoly -> now they have to pay extra for the same product.

How are you blaming Sony for a monopoly when Xbox raised the prices first for over 3 months? Wtf is wrong with you?

 

[lh032]

Really?

PS5 or Series X, which is better product?

Certainly not the one with a GAAS initiative.

PlayStation winning bayyybbeeeeee

 

[Bojji]

How are you blaming Sony for a monopoly when Xbox raised the prices first for over 3 months? Wtf is wrong with you?

Xbox raised prices because they don't give a fuck anymore. Sony did it, because they can (they know people will buy it anyway).

If there was fierce competition like in X360-PS3 days between them - no one would raise the prices on consoles.

 

[Mokus]

I think it's the low end cards where AMD lost the market completely. For vendors Nvidia is a more marketable product for the less knowledgeable buyers especially when they can use the framegen gimmick as the real performance in their ads.

 

[rnlval]

Hmmm...

AMD's "Poor Volta" marketing wasn't good. RX Vega's HBM memory bandwidth was useless with 64 ROPS forever. Radeon was stuck with 64 ROPS from R9-290X to RX 5700 XT.

Raytracing's bounding volume hierarchy (BVH) structures are about geometry processing, and NVIDIA exploited it like DX11 tessellation saturation and DX7's hardware T&L.

Reminder for AMD's Radeon team, GPU deals with geometry, not DSP.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Because the diy market is tiny.
The vast majority of people don't build their own PC.

I still don't think even for DIY we would have accurate data to prove AMD is on playing field. Only argument I've ever seen for that is German store.

There were a lot more GPUs for online ordering or stores than prebuilts in covid ampere craze, as much as it felt like there was none, bots were spamming stock for dedicated cards. They appeared almost immediately on steam survey

It ain't 6% for sure.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony is dominant in traditional console space and Nintendo in their own market - they can raise prices however they want.

With strong competition this wouldn't happen.

They are not competing with each other? Should you be upset that competition is working as it should and punishing the player that lost all generations in third place despite being the biggest and richest company around?

How do you explain MS increasing the price of their consoles and services too then?

It sounds like we are again at the "MS good, everyone else bad, Sony super bad because reasons" point.

Everyone everywhere is raising prices, including suppliers for these companies, but Sony is especially evil because… reasons…

 

[Panajev2001a]

Xbox raised prices because they don't give a fuck anymore. Sony did it, because they can (they know people will buy it anyway).

If there was fierce competition like in X360-PS3 days between them - no one would raise the prices on consoles.

There is no possible explanation eh, nothing else happening in the world at all that could explain why prices in the electronics sectors are as crazy as they are generally?

It seems like competition for you is being rich enough in other sectors to finance massive losses and bankrupt the competitors that cannot afford to do the same… do you really think it is a good thing even?

 

[Ellis]

I really wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia start making CPUs for consumers too.

 

[Panajev2001a]

How are you blaming Sony for a monopoly when Xbox raised the prices first for over 3 months? Wtf is wrong with you?

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Bought three GPUs from AMD in a row (6700xt, 7900xt, 9070xt). No complaints.

Same (well not same models, but still).

Been very happy with all the AMD GPUs I used recently - plus their drivers for Linux are developed quicker and easier to maintain (for those who don't know, they are just part of the basic Linux graphics driver, mesa, instead of being some proprietary extra like NVidia's).

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Huh, I thought AMD was supposed to be on the upswing?

CPU side of things they are.

 

[Bojji]

There is no possible explanation eh, nothing else happening in the world at all that could explain why prices in the electronics sectors are as crazy as they are generally?

It seems like competition for you is being rich enough in other sectors to finance massive losses and bankrupt the competitors that cannot afford to do the same… do you really think it is a good thing even?

Sony is evil, MS is evil and Nintendo is evil. Corporations aren't your friends...
I like the logic that me criticizing Sony - that means I must be pro MS, lol. NO, I hate all those motherfuckers equally.

Corporations can only be kept in check by themselves if they are fighting for the same market. People gave Sony what they wanted (and MS shit the bed) and now they can lie there and do nothing (+raising prices because, why not?). Exactly the same thing is true for Nvidia vs. AMD, prices were much better when AMD was the real competition to them.

Of course you can blame "inflation", "global economy", "tsmc prices" etc. but reality is those consoles should be cheaper to make than in 2020, they use ancient tech not some cutting edge silicons. It's 60% greed, 20% Trump and 20% TSMC.

 

[Mr Moose]

Sony is dominant in traditional console space and Nintendo in their own market - they can raise prices however they want.

With strong competition this wouldn't happen.

Xbox raised price also. They don't have a monopoly. Must be something else.

 

[winjer]

I still don't think even for DIY we would have accurate data to prove AMD is on playing field. Only argument I've ever seen for that is German store.

There were a lot more GPUs for online ordering or stores than prebuilts in covid ampere craze, as much as it felt like there was none, bots were spamming stock for dedicated cards. They appeared almost immediately on steam survey

It ain't 6% for sure.

It's quite obvious that they are not on the same level. But its less terrible on the diy side.
That shop in Germany is the biggest in the country. There were also a few reports from a couple of stores in Asia.
And they also showed that AMD was doing better with RDNA4, than with RDNA3.

One thing this report also stated is that global shipments for this quarter, increased 23%. So it might be that everyone increased shipments, but nvidia did a lot more.

 

[Bojji]

Xbox raised price also. They don't have a monopoly. Must be something else.

They have different reasons to do it. XSX was more expensive to make than PS5. I think their logic was: "if it doesn't sell like we would like it too, then they can at least make the most profits of units that find their customers".
They also stopped selling Series X on many markets last year. They don't give a fuck at this point.

Look what Sony was willing to do in PS3 gen:

Sony was losing over $300 per unit on its initial 20GB PlayStation 3 models and around $240 per unit on its 60GB models at launch in late 2006, with losses later decreasing to an estimated $36 per unit by late 2009.

In 2006 console price was 499$ (20GB) and 599$ (60GB), in 2009 they dropped the price to 299$ and STILL were losing much less money on every unit.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Online boycotts have the effectiveness of a pretzel.

I remember people saying this about Xbone DRM

 

[Buggy Loop]

It's quite obvious that they are not on the same level. But its less terrible on the diy side.
That shop in Germany is the biggest in the country. There were also a few reports from a couple of stores in Asia.
And they also showed that AMD was doing better with RDNA4, than with RDNA3.

One thing this report also stated is that global shipments for this quarter, increased 23%. So it might be that everyone increased shipments, but nvidia did a lot more.

That shop in Germany is known for being one of AMD's biggest distributor in Europe and has lower pricing accordingly than anywhere else. Of course it has good AMD sales, as anyone looking for AMD goes there.

"Not paper launch" RDNA 2 in covid era where everything was leaving the shelves took 2 years to reach a cumulative (all 6000 series) 1.5% on Steam survey. Prebuilds alone don't explain this drought of almost never showing up on Steam survey or when they do its very late or by a small percentage.

What's your estimate of prebuilts vs DIY? I would wager 70-30.

 

[demigod]

Sony is evil, MS is evil and Nintendo is evil. Corporations aren't your friends...
I like the logic that me criticizing Sony - that means I must be pro MS, lol. NO, I hate all those motherfuckers equally.

Corporations can only be kept in check by themselves if they are fighting for the same market. People gave Sony what they wanted (and MS shit the bed) and now they can they lie there and do nothing (+raising prices because, why not?). Exactly the same thing is true for Nvidia vs. AMD, prices were much better when AMD was the real competition to them.

Of course you can blame "inflation", "global economy", "tsmc prices" etc. but reality is those consoles should be cheaper to make than in 2020, they use ancient tech not some cutting edge silicons. It's 60% greed, 20% Trump and 20% TSMC.

You went from Sony monopoly to now everyone is greedy for making a profit(Kepler2 even said Sony was losing money). Nobody should make any product than.

 

[winjer]

They have different reasons to do it. XSX was more expensive to make than PS5. I think their logic was: "if it doesn't sell like we would like it too, then they can at least make the most profits of units that find their customers".
They also stopped selling Series X on many markets last year. They don't give a fuck at this point.

Look what Sony was willing to do in PS3 gen:



In 2006 console price was 499$ (20GB) and 599$ (60GB), in 2009 they dropped the price to 299$ and STILL were losing much less money on every unit.

But with the PS3 Slim, the cuts were not only due to a node reduction.

That shop in Germany is known for being one of AMD's biggest distributor in Europe and has lower pricing accordingly than anywhere else. Of course it has good AMD sales, as anyone looking for AMD goes there.

"Not paper launch" RDNA 2 in covid era where everything was leaving the shelves took 2 years to reach a cumulative (all 6000 series) 1.5% on Steam survey. Prebuilds alone don't explain this drought of almost never showing up on Steam survey or when they do its very late or by a small percentage.

What's your estimate of prebuilts vs DIY? I would wager 70-30.

Probably less than 10%.

 

[Bojji]

You went from Sony monopoly to now everyone is greedy for making a profit(Kepler2 even said Sony was losing money). Nobody should make any product than.

Sony has the monopoly now, Nintendo isn't directly competing with them and MS is dead. Sony has casual "bro" and hardcore crowd while Nintendo has more casual players and Nintendo fanatics crowd. Once Sony release PS6 handheld they may be some interesting battle between them and Nintendo but we will see...

Previously when Sony had the monopoly (PS2) their next console was 599 US Dollars (that costed them over 900 dollars to produce!) and they thought that it will sell like hotcakes. And who knows, maybe without MS and their aggressive strategy with X360 - PS3 could end up successful and Sony would have learned nothing (PS4 launch was completely different).

But with the PS3 Slim, the cuts were not only due to a node reduction.

Probably less than 10%.

Yep, but they already gutted some stuff with pre slim fat models (BC, card readers, 2 usb ports etc.).

 

[Malvira]

In September 2024 AMD's Jack Huyhn announced the plan was now to reach scale starting with RDNA4 as he's a '80% kind of guy' . It got even worse now I really don't see how they can invert that trend with Nvidia SUPER series coming soon and removing the lack of VRAM from the equation.

 

[Honey Bunny]

There's also the issue that silicon and transformer technology is at the limit. We gamers know it, because some games today actually look worse or about the same as the best games released in the PS4 Era. The same is already happening to LLMs, but trillion dollar companies can still eat up costs. NVIDIA GH200 pulls 0.9 kWh per hour (21.6 kWh/day) at max load, requires insane cooling and costs $55,000 a piece, hardware price and energy requirements keep increasing. Google AI Summary is actually damaging their main source of income, not by much, but they are, experts are telling this is not a good idea in the long run.

When the AI Bubble Burst, there will be very few players left, and I think there will be a major shift to local, less powerful LMs.

Are you shorting Nvidia?

 

[demigod]

Sony has the monopoly now, Nintendo isn't directly competing with them and MS is dead. Sony has casual "bro" and hardcore crowd while Nintendo has more casual players and Nintendo fanatics crowd. Once Sony release PS6 handheld they may be some interesting battle between them and Nintendo but we will see...

Previously when Sony had the monopoly (PS2) their next console was 599 US Dollars (that costed them over 900 dollars to produce!) and they thought that it will sell like hotcakes. And who knows, maybe without MS and their aggressive strategy with X360 - PS3 could end up successful and Sony would have learned nothing (PS4 launch was completely different).



Yep, but they already gutted some stuff with pre slim fat models (BC, card readers, 2 usb ports etc.).

Blu ray was not cheap to produce. New tech and it was the cheapest player. How can you call that a monopoly or greed when they were losing $200 per console?

Weird you singled out Sony when Nintendo has been raking in profits on portable hardware since day 1 with zero competition.

 

[Bojji]

Blu ray was not cheap to produce. New tech and it was the cheapest player. How can you call that a monopoly or greed when they were losing $200 per console?

Weird you singled out Sony when Nintendo has been raking in profits on portable hardware since day 1 with zero competition.

They had Monopoly in PS2 gen, that was the reason why PS3 was so overdesigned and high in price. They thought no one would be able to compete anyway. PS5 is a repeat of PS2 gen in this aspect (too bad not in games quality).

Nintendo has Monopoly and they are greedy as fuck, I never said otherwise but their hardware don't interest me at all. That's why I'm focusing on Sony here.

Nvidia is like Sony on steroids, there is Nothing in their way. Then can charge whatever they want.