• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NY Gov. Cuomo proposes free tuition at New York state colleges for eligible students

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lol, that's not how income works so why do kids of rich parents deserve any financial help? Go ask them about cutting some of their salaries to give to the cleaners at their department and see their response.

How is that relevant? Why should your parents salary have anything to do with their children? Should I be judged by my fathers actions or vice versa? And again, its not about financial help, its about education being a right to every person in the country regardless of who they are or what their circumstances are.
 
This is the point as I myself got caught up in the baseball tickets things which isn't the issue here. This is the issue, in NYC families that are struggling the last thing on their mind is how to pay for a darn baseball game. They're thinking about making their next rent payment, paying their next bill, thinking about how they're going to feed their children.

The last thing they're thinking about is paying $1400 for a daycare center because the cheaper options are further away and it's convenient to pay extra.

The folks who struggle, their kids stand the most to gain from CUNY proposing a free education. Not a family who earns 125k. That is all.

This
 

numble

Member
That's equivalent to to saying welfare recipients shouldn't have iphones and eat nice food like steaks and seafood.
Not equivalent. You are asking for a handout without demonstrating need. Welfare recipients have demonstrated need already. I still don't see where you deserve a $540/month subsidy from the government. Because you have a large retirement account, have $20,000 a year in savings and are buying scalped tickets?
 

Arkeband

Banned
Do people not understand family of 4?

...do you not understand that these luxuries cost poorer people the same amount? They don't live in a separate universe where plane tickets, cruises, trips to major league baseball games, christmas gifts, etc are all half price.

The only thing that might be cheaper are movie theater tickets which are slightly lower priced, but they're also theaters you'd avoid if you had access to an RPX or IMAX theater.

How is that relevant? Why should your parents salary have anything to do with their children? Should I be judged by my fathers actions or vice versa? And again, its not about financial help, its about education being a right to every person in the country regardless of who they are or what their circumstances are.

...because parents with money can co-sign larger loans or even pay for tuition altogether. It's not about your father's actions but the opportunities your parents can give you versus the opportunities others parents cannot.
 
Lol, that's not how income works so why do kids of well off parents deserve any financial help? Go ask them about cutting some of their salaries to give to the cleaners at their department and see their response.

My parents didn't pay anything towards my college, and yet their income was held against me for financial aid.

It should 100% be based on the student's income. There's no reason to use the parent's income, nothing else goes by that number. At 18 you're an adult. If your parents can or want to help you, they can, but it shouldn't be expected and held against you if they don't.
 

ccbfan

Member
I went to games at Shea with my family of 6 or myself, my brother, his brother and his son and still never paid $200 for tickets and we got Mezzanine level seats every game. I've gone to games at Citi with friends and we never paid $200 for tickets and food.

Nosebleeds at Citi are $10 a pop.

I'm looking at the StubHub page for them RIGHT NOW.

Yes for weekday tickets. Sorry for not wanting my kid to get home past midnight on a school day.
 

Arkeband

Banned
My parents didn't pay anything towards my college, and yet their income was held against me for financial aid.

It should 100% be based on the student's income. There's no reason to use the parent's income, nothing else goes by that number. At 18 you're an adult. If your parents can or want to help you, they can, but it shouldn't be expected and held against you if they don't.

Do you see anything potentially wrong with using the student's income when they've only just left high school...?
 
...because parents with money can co-sign larger loans or even pay for tuition altogether. It's not about your father's actions but the opportunities your parents can give you versus the opportunities others parents cannot.

Like I've been saying, everyone should be entitled to a free education. We shouldn't need to sign our futures away on massive loans that could potentially have no return on them.
 

Crayons

Banned
Yes for weekday tickets. Sorry for not wanting my kid to get home past midnight on a school day.

Oh my god, you are extremely entitled. How about you just pay for your kids college instead of spending 500$ a month on eating out and another 500$ in entertainment? Or maybe take some money out of your meager $20k/year savings. You don't need government assistance to pay for college, you just choose to waste your money by being luxurious
 
My parents didn't pay anything towards my college, and yet their income was held against me for financial aid.

It should 100% be based on the student's income. There's no reason to use the parent's income, nothing else goes by that number. At 18 you're an adult. If your parents can or want to help you, they can, but it shouldn't be expected and held against you if they don't.

I agree, I see this all the time. Students who don't even live with their parents and since because they aren't 24 yet they can't apply for FA as independent which just sucks. Shit happened to me throughout my entire 4.5 years of undergrad. Thankfully my parents saved up and I had some dough to help me out. Not everyone has that luxury.
 

Guevara

Member
I can't imagine raising even one kid in NYC for under $125k, to be honest.

But what's really shocking: the median income, for a family of 4, is like $54k
 
Do you see anything potentially wrong with using the student's income when they've only just left high school...?

There are pitfalls no matter how you judge income which is why it shouldn't be based on income and everyone should be guaranteed the same level of education.
 

ccbfan

Member
Not equivalent. You are asking for a handout without demonstrating need. Welfare recipients have demonstrated need already. I still don't see where you deserve a $540/month subsidy from the government. Because you have a large retirement account, have $20,000 a year in savings and are buying scalped tickets?

For a majority of students they need the $540/month subsidy. Cause a vast majority of them won't get a cent from their parents.

You shouldn't punish the child for their parents action.

My goal is only to show how easy it is for a family of 4 making 130K to not have money saved for college.

Only thing GAF has show me is that you need to struggle so you can save for your kid's college.
 

Future

Member
My parents didn't pay anything towards my college, and yet their income was held against me for financial aid.

It should 100% be based on the student's income. There's no reason to use the parent's income, nothing else goes by that number. At 18 you're an adult. If your parents can or want to help you, they can, but it shouldn't be expected and held against you if they don't.

This doesn't work because most students have 0 income. But I agree with the sentiment. Right now a students education goes hand in hand with the financial discipline of the parent. Students get screwed if their parent isn't legit at at handling shit

However, the flip side is that the student can strive to make up for this by doing well in high school and getting scholarships and grants due to merit. They can also make use of community college to cut down costs initially

The real question to me is: does everyone deserve higher education even if they do not put in the work or otherwise struggle in high school, or even if the parents don't bother to help them financially. Right now, America says no.
 

ccbfan

Member
Oh my god, you are extremely entitled. How about you just pay for your kids college instead of spending 500$ a month on eating out and another 500$ in entertainment? Or maybe take some money out of your meager $20k/year savings. You don't need government assistance to pay for college, you just choose to waste your money by being luxurious

20K a year is for all additional yearly cost, not savings.
 
I will say. I support the concept of universal benefits. Not do to any sense of justice of subsidizing well-to-do people but they are far more popular than means-testing where the resentment (which can be seen here) can brew.

See food-stamps and welfare vs. social security and medicare.

I know states are strapped for cash though (new york and other progressive states should pass a millionaire tax that recaptures the Trump tax break though)
 
I can't imagine raising even one kid in NYC for under $125k, to be honest.

But what's really shocking: the median income, for a family of 4, is like $54k

That $54k number doesn't include all the government subsidies they are getting. Section 8 and rent control can also make a huge difference. Not that I'm trying to demonize these people at all.
 
There are pitfalls no matter how you judge income which is why it shouldn't be based on income and everyone should be guaranteed the same level of education.

I have been trying to stay away from your posts because although I genuinely and sincerely agree with you on the notion that education should be universal and it should be free and accessible I also live in this thing called REALITY (and I apologise for being condescending) but in the real world this just isn't so.

If funds are allocated for a certain headcount of students in order to receive free tuition then there is no way, no freaking way that students whose folks make 125k should have access to this. No fucking way. To me it is unacceptable. If you make 125k with a family of four your struggle is not the same struggle as a family from who makes significantly less in worst areas of the city.

You keep pushing this idea of education for all and it is very noble and it's an awesome ideal. But in this country the wealthier folks and their kin usually rise to top of the heap by themselves. They do not need a government handout.
 

Zoe

Member
Yes for weekday tickets. Sorry for not wanting my kid to get home past midnight on a school day.

Why don't you use some of that $500 eating out budget to eat at a place with TV's showing the games if you just can't live without sports?
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Lol, that's not how income works so why do kids of well off parents deserve any financial help? Go ask them about cutting some of their salaries to give to the cleaners at their department and see their response.
Why are adult children of well off parents expected to get support from their parents. Mine had means but from a philosophical point of view cut me off, hard, on my 18th birthday.
 
I have been trying to stay away from your posts because although I genuinely and sincerely agree with you on the notion that education should be universal and it should be free and accessible I also live in this thing called REALITY (and I apologise for being condescending) but in the real world this just isn't so.

If funds are allocated for a certain headcount of students in order to receive free tuition then there is no way, no freaking way that students whose folks make 125k should have access to this. No fucking way. To me it is unacceptable. If you make 125k with a family of four your struggle is not the same struggle as a family from who makes significantly less in worst areas of the city.

You keep pushing this idea of education for all and it is very noble and it's an awesome ideal. But in this country the wealthier folks and their kin usually rise to top of the heat by themselves. They do not need a government handout.

Heh, no need to apologize. If you trace my posts all the way back to the first one in the thread I actually agreed that this measure by the gov is a good thing and a step in the right direction. I just really believe the cost of secondary education has been a ticking time bomb that should have gone off already and my sons generation is going to be truly fucked if we don't do anything to address it.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
I can't imagine raising even one kid in NYC for under $125k, to be honest.

But what's really shocking: the median income, for a family of 4, is like $54k

There are a lot of "multi-family, single-family households" households in NYC. Specifically one family per bedroom arrangements.

They made tenements illegal but they never went anywhere.
 
I have been trying to stay away from your posts because although I genuinely and sincerely agree with you on the notion that education should be universal and it should be free and accessible I also live in this thing called REALITY (and I apologise for being condescending) but in the real world this just isn't so.

If funds are allocated for a certain headcount of students in order to receive free tuition then there is no way, no freaking way that students whose folks make 125k should have access to this. No fucking way. To me it is unacceptable. If you make 125k with a family of four your struggle is not the same struggle as a family from who makes significantly less in worst areas of the city.

You keep pushing this idea of education for all and it is very noble and it's an awesome ideal. But in this country the wealthier folks and their kin usually rise to top of the heat by themselves. They do not need a government handout.

If we gonna live in reality that's a fair point but then how this shit getting paid for in a state with already high taxes?
 

ccbfan

Member
Why don't you use some of that $500 eating out budget to eat at a place with TV's showing the games if you just can't live without sports?


The post isn't about a 130K family stuggling to live.

Its about about how a 130K family would spend their money for and not give a cent to their children for college.

Also sports is just an example (I also had movies) and 500 is just an average for the month. Some months you could have huge purchases and some you don't.

Again, for a child of a family of 4 making 130K, there's a huge chance that child is getting 0 help from their parents. No need to punish the child.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
You went to SUNY Albany over Yale? Yale's financial aid packages are extremely nice these days--it is a "no loan" policy, so if your family's income is under $65k you get a free ride, if it is between $65k and $100k, the cost is about $25k for 4 years:
https://admissions.yale.edu/financial-aid-prospective-students#whoqualifies

I've got family who've gone to Yale and my parents are by no means rich and they gave me the saddest financial aid package out nearly all of the colleges I applied to. NYU wasn't much better and my mother went there lol I would have been massively in debt if I went to either college and I wasn't about that.
 

Arkeband

Banned
No, I don't.

Here's a hint: Nearly every student would be putting down "0", which tells you nothing about whether their family can afford it or not.

And the minority of students that actually worked near the end of their high school career would be penalized as if their shit wages reflect any ability to pay tuition.

So you'd have rich people trying to suck the same subsidies from the system that poor people actually NEED, using a metric that means absolutely nothing.

I know you guys are bemoaning the rich kids whose parents kick them out of the house at 18 but those kids had better opportunities for literally everything else growing up, and if their parents aren't inhuman monsters will also help them before they become homeless.

Again, for a child of a family of 4 making 130K, there's a huge chance that child is getting 0 help from their parents. No need to punish the child.

And for a family of 4 making substantially less than 130k, not only is the chance that the child gets 0 even huge-er, it's not even a choice.
 
Why are adult children of well off parents expected to get support from their parents. Mine had means but from a philosophical point of view cut me off, hard, on my 18th birthday.
Indeed. Just because one's parents have means doesn't mean that the children will have access to the means. And if their parents say no, they get screwed over based on something they have no control over and have no alternative to base it on their own income.

Plus, this is completely contrary to the way K-12 works. Anyone can attend public K-12 schools regardless of their income level. Granted, most such parents choose to send their kids to a private or charter school, but nonetheless the option is there and I don't see why this should be any different for post-secondary.

Finally, the most significant factor is that the higher the income brackets we're talking about here, the fewer and fewer people fall into them. Thus, even if allowed, it shouldn't be a big deal, because that's just tacking on a relatively small group of people to begin with before even factoring in that within that small group many wouldn't choose to take advantage of it or just send their kids to some out-of-state school instead, similar to K-12 public schools.

That is, it's a lot of bother over a relatively small number of people to begin with and creating a system set-up to exclude them despite their small number just makes everything more complicated for little gain and pushes out people who really could have used the help, such as families that have exorbitant medical bills or their own student loan debt or what-have-you that makes their net income an incredibly misleading figure as to how much discretionary income they really have. Ignoring such cases and making a complicated system that pushes away people that really could use the help just to give the middle finger to a relatively small number of rich people to begin with, especially when our K-12 public schools don't work that way and the world isn't falling down (not for that reason anyway), just doesn't seem worth it to me. Kicking out the 1% just doesn't seem worth it because of who you'd be kicking out along with them.

Of course, I get very well why that idea is a much tougher sell. However, despite their being numerous problems with the way our public K-12 schools are currently set up and funded like funding coming from property values leading to severe disparity in school quality, them being open to anyone regardless of their income is not one of them, so I don't personally see the problem with applying the same standard to colleges as well.
 

ccbfan

Member
And for a family of 4 making substantially less than 130k, not only is the chance that the child gets 0 even huge-er, it's not even a choice.

No one is calling for children of parent making less than 130K to not get free public school.

The call is for all students to get free public school. And honestly for the super rich that doesn't need this, most probably willing be sending their kids to some high end private school.
 

Jarlaxle

Member
I hope this happens as I haven't been able to save anything for college for my kids. They're still quite a ways away (6 and 3 years old) but this would definitely be nice to look forward to for them.
 
I hope this happens as I haven't been able to save anything for college for my kids. They're still quite a ways away (6 and 3 years old) but this would definitely be nice to look forward to for them.

My wife and I are putting some away every check for our daughter's college. It's not much but should be ok after doing it for 18 years. It'd just be nice to have this program help us too but we make too much to get help, don't make enough to retire to some tropical country. Gotta grind it ourselves. Can't say I'm not used to it.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
I know you guys are bemoaning the rich kids whose parents kick them out of the house at 18 but those kids had better opportunities for literally everything else growing up, and if their parents aren't inhuman monsters will also help them before they become homeless.

Lol, not for me. Zero, Zilch, Nada. Could not get any government assistance anywhere (because Male and parents income.) So moved down south, homeless (car) for a month until I was finally able to get a lease on a $600 a month shithole.

I knew it was coming so I was lucky enough to work in a garage part time from when I was 13 and had money saved up. But it was not easy getting a lease without any cosigner or local reference.
 

Peltz

Member
are you kidding me

how about you stop eating out $500 worth of food every month or move to a place where the rent isn't 2500?!

A family of 4 who makes $130k can pay for their child's college. They just choose to spend it on frivolous shit instead.

Where the hell can you live with a family of four that doesn't have rent that is at least 2500 and that has a decent school district in the 5 boroughs?

2500 for four people is low, honestly.
 
Here's a hint: Nearly every student would be putting down "0", which tells you nothing about whether their family can afford it or not.

And the minority of students that actually worked near the end of their high school career would be penalized as if their shit wages reflect any ability to pay tuition.

So you'd have rich people trying to suck the same subsidies from the system that poor people actually NEED, using a metric that means absolutely nothing.

I know you guys are bemoaning the rich kids whose parents kick them out of the house at 18 but those kids had better opportunities for literally everything else growing up, and if their parents aren't inhuman monsters will also help them before they become homeless.

No high schooler is going to be making 125k or more unless they were already starting life off from their parents, in which case they could afford school anyway or might not even need school. So every student putting down 0 is kind of the point. Everyone should have access to the funds.

Why does a parent's income matter at all? It just punishes people who either can't afford to pay their kid's college (if they have a big family or live somewhere expensive, 125k might not be enough to pay for college) or they just don't believe in paying for their student's college. At 18, you're a full adult with rights and responsibilities of an adult... except apparently you're also tethered to your parent's finances even if you don't live with them, speak with them, or rely on them for anything at all.

...also why does it matter if rich people use subsidies poor people also use? They're paying taxes.
 
If we gonna live in reality that's a fair point but then how this shit getting paid for in a state with already high taxes?

You make a great point which leads to my next question, which you already asked. Who is going to pay for this? It's gonna be quite a battle. And completely irrelevant and kudos to Cuomo for pushing this issue but I can't help but thinking that he isn't doing it outta the kindness of his heart. This guy has presidential aspirations for sure. Let's hope he doesn't choke on them.


wMiFJtI.jpg
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
You make a great point which leads to my next question, which you already asked. Who is going to pay for this? It's gonna be quite a battle. And completely irrelevant and kudos to Cuomo for pushing this issue but I can't help but thinking that he isn't doing it outta the kindness of his heart. This guy has presidential aspirations for sure. Let's hope he doesn't choke on them.


wMiFJtI.jpg

Cuomo is going to push to get recreational marijuana legalized and tax the fuck out of it.
 
125k is well above median family income. If you're covering more than half the families in the state, it's definitely a good start.
 

AP90

Member
Agree with not eating out. My wife and I don't anymore. But then again we're paying 1400 a month for daycare.

But the rest is bullshit. Really? You solution is "Move where it's not as expensive!" Sure, that's easy as pie with an elderly mother to live near and a disabled sibling to look out for. But sure....my wife and I should be able to find new jobs in our new area in a jiffy, lol.

I dont think he understands mammoth =/. I lived in NYC for a bit. Rent is ridiculous, unless you had lived there with family for years and years before rents skyrocketed.

I was paying $1730/month for a 1st floor studio in a 3story walkup that was barely maintained sufficiently.. Oh yeah my apartment was 276sq Ft. And I was only clearing 50k. To try and make ends meet, I was eating tuna fish multiple times a week, skipping lunch a few times a week as well.

My job entailed inspecting the projects, coops and other housing throughout the five Burroughs of nyc. This included subsidized and non subsidized housing intermixed throughout the city. I was inspecting nicer buildings and apartments for safety/firecode and etc than what I was coming home to.

The way its setup in NYC, almost incentivizes people to work part time (poverty or lower) to meet the required annual income bracket through HPD to get into the wait lists for these affordable/nice housing units/buildings/complexes.

Can't imagine having to provide for a family with more than 2kids and live there especially after growing up in WNY. (I GTFO as soon as I could find a job back home).
 

Quixzlizx

Member
A family making 130K a year in NYC isn't paying for their kid's college.

That barely enough to live comfortablely in NYC without government assistance for a family of 4.

A family of 4 making 130K a year is bringing home like 80K after federal tax + state tax + city tax + payroll tax + 401K + Health Insurance.

Expenses a month for someone living in an OK neighborhood in Queens.

Rent (2500)
Groceries (800)
Car Cost/Metro Card (500)
Utilities (300)
Eating Out (500)
Entertainment (500)

That's like 61,200 as year and its actually an understatement.

So that's only 19,800 for vacations, health emergencies, savings, major purchases (cars, TV, phones), gifts for birthdays and Christmas.

$1000/mo for eating out and entertainment? "Only $20k" for vacations, major purchases, and gifts? Wasn't there a GAF thread last year about a NYT article mocking entitled idiots like this?
 

Helznicht

Member
The $125k is so arbitrary.

What is the definition of "family"?
What if the parents are divorced and no longer in the same household?
What if you have a grandmother that works and lives with you and your folks?
What if the student(s) work, does their income count?
What if the student is married with a family of their own, do you still use the parents income or this family's income?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom