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NY Gov Cuomo: 'The time has come' for congestion pricing in NYC
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Coming into this thread, I don't know much about the issue. I've spent 3 weeks total in NYC in my life, and some of that was commuting in and out of New Rochelle and surrounding. Other than that I've spent a bit of time upstate, and have some friends with the NYC area. I know congestion pricing was supposed to have worked well for London, but don't know a lot about whether or not New York would benefit from it.
The opening article sort of lays out Cuomo's position, and then notes that it worked for London, but doesn't really make any strong arguments for or against, it's not really an editorial. So I'm leaving the OP with an open mind but not really committed to the issue.
Okay, well, this sounds like a pretty stupid reaction by someone who just wants to yell about something. Like how the president should be a guy you want to get a beer with, or how it's dumb that you can't smoke in bars. Whatever. Let's see what other people say.
* series of replies that seem more measured and thoughtful expressing a mix of optimism about this a solution and skepticism that it will be possible to overcome political hurdles*
I'm starting to get a sense of the dynamic at play here. Transit issues are tough, no one has really solved them, and people get really defensive about changing stuff that affects their daily life. Really tough, I don't envy urban planners.
Oh, okay, I guess the previous obvious declaration about how this was terrible and how any idiot could figure this out didn't work, so we're back again. If you legalize weed, traffic disappears, bam, problem solved idiots.
* several replies that seem more measured and thoughtful expressing optimism about this being something worth trying *
Yeah, I get it, the lines at the DMV are long and no one likes government. Vote Denis Leary for governor, he might be an asshole, but you know he's right!!
* several replies that seem more measured and thoughtful expressing optimism about this being something worth trying *
I'm sure people saw the first three posts, but I think "stop spending money on lights" is probably the dumbest of the three policy proposals put forward so far. Like that time Bobby Jindal responded to the state of the union by saying "Why is the government wasting money on volcano monitoring?" when in reality 0.0000000% of the budget is spent on that and it turns out that like months later a volcano exploded in Alaska.
* several replies that vary from optimistic to pessimistic about the revenue sharing issues and providing a bunch of details about the plan and other transit challenges NYC faces -- including negative externalities from congestion pricing *
Pretend I've never heard of NYC or congestion pricing and I entered this thread, which side do you think is doing a better job of articulating the policy and political considerations here?
The opening article sort of lays out Cuomo's position, and then notes that it worked for London, but doesn't really make any strong arguments for or against, it's not really an editorial. So I'm leaving the OP with an open mind but not really committed to the issue.
Okay, well, this sounds like a pretty stupid reaction by someone who just wants to yell about something. Like how the president should be a guy you want to get a beer with, or how it's dumb that you can't smoke in bars. Whatever. Let's see what other people say.
* series of replies that seem more measured and thoughtful expressing a mix of optimism about this a solution and skepticism that it will be possible to overcome political hurdles*
I'm starting to get a sense of the dynamic at play here. Transit issues are tough, no one has really solved them, and people get really defensive about changing stuff that affects their daily life. Really tough, I don't envy urban planners.
Oh, okay, I guess the previous obvious declaration about how this was terrible and how any idiot could figure this out didn't work, so we're back again. If you legalize weed, traffic disappears, bam, problem solved idiots.
* several replies that seem more measured and thoughtful expressing optimism about this being something worth trying *
Yeah, I get it, the lines at the DMV are long and no one likes government. Vote Denis Leary for governor, he might be an asshole, but you know he's right!!
* several replies that seem more measured and thoughtful expressing optimism about this being something worth trying *
I'm sure people saw the first three posts, but I think "stop spending money on lights" is probably the dumbest of the three policy proposals put forward so far. Like that time Bobby Jindal responded to the state of the union by saying "Why is the government wasting money on volcano monitoring?" when in reality 0.0000000% of the budget is spent on that and it turns out that like months later a volcano exploded in Alaska.
* several replies that vary from optimistic to pessimistic about the revenue sharing issues and providing a bunch of details about the plan and other transit challenges NYC faces -- including negative externalities from congestion pricing *
Pretend I've never heard of NYC or congestion pricing and I entered this thread, which side do you think is doing a better job of articulating the policy and political considerations here?
captmcblack
Member
Thank God Cuomo caucuses with some weirdo splinter quasi-Democrat faction so even if this does hurt the poor and not give the city anything (to the benefit of upstate), he can get paid off to pass it anyway!
BertramCooper
Banned
The lack of control NYC wields over its transportation system is so fucked up.
MTA should be severed from Albany entirely and put under the control of the city and the counties with Metro-North/LIRR service.
MTA should be severed from Albany entirely and put under the control of the city and the counties with Metro-North/LIRR service.
darkhunger
Member
Ridesharing added tens of thousands of cars on the streets actually (since previously the taxi industry was heavily regulated). And this will impact those cars as well so ride sharing will probably be way more expensive now (except for those rich enough to live in the taxed zone)
GiantBombGamer
Member
Itd still be cheaper for me to drive into NYC than pay the $34 for my train ticket from LI.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Parking?
The Faceless Master
Member
there's way more cars on the street now than before Uber and Lyft took off.
I think the main problem is just way too many people on a small space trying to get from point A to point B. I'm certainly no expert and I have never been in New York in my life, but I'd guess urban planning is not that easy for a city that huge or else the problem would have been easily fixed already.
Maintaining subways is very hard, you can't just bore some new tunnels and extra lines in the span of a year and when the infrastructure breaks down and needs to be replaced, other infrastructure will suffer because of increased traffic on them. And the way such systems have grown is that they are full of legacy equipment and incompatible 'standards', trying to fix all problems by introducing a new standard for carriages, rails and communication systems just creates a new standard sitting next to all the others (cue xkcd comic).
You could throw some extra money at it, but that doesn't mean the problem will be solved quickly. There's only so many lines that can be worked on a time, the subway is open almost all day for many lines and closing down a line for like a year would be a nightmare. I certainly would not want to work on fixing those traffics problems, it's an engineers worst nightmare.
Maintaining subways is very hard, you can't just bore some new tunnels and extra lines in the span of a year and when the infrastructure breaks down and needs to be replaced, other infrastructure will suffer because of increased traffic on them. And the way such systems have grown is that they are full of legacy equipment and incompatible 'standards', trying to fix all problems by introducing a new standard for carriages, rails and communication systems just creates a new standard sitting next to all the others (cue xkcd comic).
You could throw some extra money at it, but that doesn't mean the problem will be solved quickly. There's only so many lines that can be worked on a time, the subway is open almost all day for many lines and closing down a line for like a year would be a nightmare. I certainly would not want to work on fixing those traffics problems, it's an engineers worst nightmare.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Congestion pricing is amazing, wtf is this thread.
Congestion pricing is like the only thing that actually reduces traffic other than more buses.
Congestion pricing is like the only thing that actually reduces traffic other than more buses.
Technosteve
Banned
Upstate new york where all the republicans wave their hands for a hand out from new york city taxes
Well, yeah, but using the possibility of the funds going to another issue/project really isn't a good argument against a good idea. You are concerned more on implementation and ensuring the funds go to the right place, that is what they are suppose to do, but Albany is controlled by Repubs right now if I am not mistaken.
I am aware it will impact the people with less money more, but I actually want it to since the goal would be to increase mass transit and decrease traffic and car use.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Do it!! Less cars the better in nyc.
Less cars means more bikes, less pollition, quieter City and less accidents.
Win win
Less cars means more bikes, less pollition, quieter City and less accidents.
Win win
Phoenixazure
Member
Yea they need to also improve port authority/NJ Transit. Part of the reason I drive into work on weekends is because my NJ Transit bus is always 30 min late (especially since i have to catch a 530am bus).
If the money goes towards that, then maybe sure. Probably won't though
Wouldn't it hit those that commute from NJ and the surrounding boroughs?
If the money goes towards that, then maybe sure. Probably won't though
Wouldn't it hit those that commute from NJ and the surrounding boroughs?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Poor drivers aren't gonna be hit by this. Nobody is driving their shitty car into downtown for their 12$ an hour drive. Their taking the subway.
manfestival
Member
This is a great idea. Why stop at 8 dollars more? should be higher
NYCmetsfan
Banned
They already pay trans-Hudson tolls.
And most outer borough to manhattan commuters aren't "poor"
hydrophilic attack
Member
This works well.
Money should be earmarked for infrastructure and public transport in and around the city though
Money should be earmarked for infrastructure and public transport in and around the city though
If every cent goes towards to subway then this is fine. If even a penny finds it's way to Albany then it's crap.
Seriously, so long as everything goes towards not only fixing and modernizing the subways system, but making sure it stays up to date, then this is only a good thing.
Seriously, so long as everything goes towards not only fixing and modernizing the subways system, but making sure it stays up to date, then this is only a good thing.
bggrthnjsus
Member
bout goddamn time
darkhunger
Member
Those people still take the train or bus to a train to Manhattan, unless they are truly rich.
It is a completely valid point. When subway lines are always disrupted, stations so overfilled that people are standing outside, increasing the price on road transportation seems absurd. Subways are falling apart because if Cuomo's lack of funding.
No, you are missing the dynamic completely. MTA has been underfunded and the subways are trash. Always late, or not running or disrupted. The same idiots who caused this now want to increase the cost of road transportation without fixing the subways.
How is this going to reduce road transportation when subways are literally not running?
http://www.politico.com/states/new-...uomo-plans-choreographed-bridge-lights-113405
Quit embarrassing yourself.
You can check out London's scheme here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge
It's run by TfL, the public body that runs London's buses, trams, light rail, underground and some heavy rail, and is also responsible for major roads. It's £10.50 ($13.50) per day if you enter the zone between 07-1800h Mon-Fri. The zone itself is about the size of Manhattan South of 59th Street.
About 22km² or 8.5mile²
Here's some stats, from wikipedia:
I wouldn't drive through central London on a workday anyway, just for my own sanity, but it's a decent earner for the city.
Nobody in their right mind actually *commutes* into central London. There's hardly any parking, and it's tons slower than any other method.
It's run by TfL, the public body that runs London's buses, trams, light rail, underground and some heavy rail, and is also responsible for major roads. It's £10.50 ($13.50) per day if you enter the zone between 07-1800h Mon-Fri. The zone itself is about the size of Manhattan South of 59th Street.
About 22km² or 8.5mile²
Here's some stats, from wikipedia:
I wouldn't drive through central London on a workday anyway, just for my own sanity, but it's a decent earner for the city.
Nobody in their right mind actually *commutes* into central London. There's hardly any parking, and it's tons slower than any other method.
ITT non-residents of NYC trying to voice an opinion.
This is amazing news. Put the money towards the subways and reclaim some of the streets into tree-lined streets, sidewalks and parks. Build up and out the rail to the commuter towns too.
For those claiming it's Albany taking NYC money, eh, it's taking the money of people stupid/rich enough to drive in NYC, or non-residents.
This is amazing news. Put the money towards the subways and reclaim some of the streets into tree-lined streets, sidewalks and parks. Build up and out the rail to the commuter towns too.
For those claiming it's Albany taking NYC money, eh, it's taking the money of people stupid/rich enough to drive in NYC, or non-residents.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Or have a state job with free parking.
digita1alchemy
Member
Never been to NYC in my life. In fact, the only very large city I've ever been to is Tokyo. When I was there the efficiency of the subway system blew my mind. So my question is why doesn't the largest city in the USA have a comparable system? I know Japan is light years ahead of the USA in general with rail, but in NYC's case it just poor planning and funding?
The goal needs to be first and foremost to revamp the subway system and grow public transport not just fix it.
Lets say that this is put into place and lets say traffic is reduced 15-20% during peak hours. The public transport system will need to be bolstered to handle that and right now it can't handle the load.
Something like this can't just be about reducing traffic it needs to be about rethinking commuting especially for those living further away from the city.
Basileus777
Member
If the money goes into the city and specifically into public transit fine. If this just gets siphoned away by the state government and public transportation remains teetering of the edge of being barely functional then the problem is just getting passed on.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
How do you propose they fix the subways? And no, people who are poor are not going to call uber or lyft. It would far too pensive for a daily commute.
That's an exaggeration. The subway despite its delays is still reliable and on time. Yes, there are problems I am not excusing them, but someone making minimum wage or even a bit above is not affording a car in this city. I know I'm one of them. It's the subway for me and nothing more.
Exactly. People acting here like money comes out of thin air and that we do t have to pay for things to get fixed or better.
Mammoth Jones
Member
The goal needs to be first and foremost to revamp the subway system and grow public transport not just fix it.
Lets say that this is put into place and lets say traffic is reduced 15-20% during peak hours. The public transport system will need to be bolstered to handle that and right now it can't handle the load.
Something like this can't just be about reducing traffic it needs to be about rethinking commuting especially for those living further away from the city.
Sensible post. People own cars outside of NYC especially on Long Island because public transportation there is non-existent. No car, no job. Even if you take the train to the city....need that car to get to the train station. Buses are limited and hourly.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
AntraxSuicide
Banned
This thread is ridiculous.
They could burn the money, Joker-style, and it's still a positive for the decreased congestion. Which will happen because it happens like every time cities do this.
They could burn the money, Joker-style, and it's still a positive for the decreased congestion. Which will happen because it happens like every time cities do this.
This. Congestion pricing needs to happen.
demosthenes
Member
C Corp mfg has 0% now. But personal and property are very high.
Here is the money.
http://www.rockinst.org/observations/wardr/2011-12-giving_getting.aspx
So send NYC money upstate while ignoring the subways until they barely function, then increase road tax, all the while Gov Cuomo was planning on spending BILLIONS to sync bridge lights to concerts....
hydrophilic attack
Member
They should do the following:
1. Massively increase the number of public transportation commuters' buses from outside the city
2. Make one lane on each highway going into the city bus only. So that people taking the bus save hours each day compared to those that go by car
3. Pay for increased public transportation with money raised from these congestion poll
4. As less and less people use cars, close down car parks (and increase rates on those remaining by A LOT). Build housing in freed up space.
The only losers will be people living outside the city who would rather kill the planet by going in their own car than taking the bus like a pleb
1. Massively increase the number of public transportation commuters' buses from outside the city
2. Make one lane on each highway going into the city bus only. So that people taking the bus save hours each day compared to those that go by car
3. Pay for increased public transportation with money raised from these congestion poll
4. As less and less people use cars, close down car parks (and increase rates on those remaining by A LOT). Build housing in freed up space.
The only losers will be people living outside the city who would rather kill the planet by going in their own car than taking the bus like a pleb
The Last Wizard
Member
Focus on the trains you asshole.
What the hell kind of report is that? Is it suppose to inform people how government spends money or did they just make it to rile people up that live in different areas of NY state?
ThatStupidLion
Member
Ugh get me the eff out of this city/tristate area. Been here too long. Its not worth the soul suck.
No, fuck you. Pay the real cost of owning a god damned car.
Why should my tax dollars subsidize you if you are not willing to help pay for transit?
darkhunger
Member
He's not spending billions on that...
Taxes in NY State will always allocated disproportionally to population... That's the nature of taxes. The only way we can stop downstate money from leaving is by seceding from NY state, and that isn't happening.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
How is this going to make the trains better!!! All it's going to do is increase ridership for the next few years as people flock to the train instead of paying a cab
evil solrac v3.0
Member
The solution is to wrestle control of the MTA away from the state.
the rest of the state is a wasteland so the city is the only way they survive. But they grow our food so....
Until we secede and become our own state, thats the Dynamic between the city and upstate.
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