NYT: 'Rohingya Recount Atrocities: "They Threw My Baby Into a Fire"'

Chaos2Frozen said:
I'm okay with treating them like North Korea 2.0

It'll take awhile but the country would definitely suffer.
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Already been tried; achieved very little. The sanctions were lifted when Aung's government came into power which people thought indicated a change in direction for Myanmar. Now look where that got us.

You're overestimating whatever leverage the west has here. This is China's sphere of interest.
 
Why is it every time something so truly horrific is happening in countries we in the "developed world" shut our eyes and ears to it like it doesn't matter.

I am sick to my stomach reading this shit.
 
Nivash said:
Already been tried; achieved very little. The sanctions were lifted when Aung's government came into power. And look where that got us.
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So really no reason not to do it.

Nivash said:
You're overestimating whatever leverage the west has here. This is China's sphere of interest.
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Nono I get it, it's China's backyard. But I think having only one friend in the whole world would still take it's toll eventually.
 
Nivash said:
If your goal in this is to make you feel a bit better while the Rohingya's continue to get killed off in the most horrific ways possible, then yeah, sure, go for it.
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I mean, people are already saying nothing could be done about saving the Rohingya.

I'm just saying at least this could be done.

I don't believe in "He'll never stop even if you punish him, so why bother punishing him?"
 
That is horrendous and tragic...what that lady suffered...nobody should experience that ever.

The people who did these acts are a disease...personally, I don't think you live after doing things this extreme...it takes fatally diseased social mentality which croses the line.
 
I come from the same background as the people of Rohingya. I have no words. Just shock and feelings of utter sickness, contempt and sadness mixed in. No amount of justice will ever get her child and family back but I’m certain if there is an international outcry the UN and neighbouring countries will step in. Change needs to happen. Now.
 
Sub Boss said:
My God, that was difficult to read, ill have to know more about this.

Yeah though its not really their fault, more people that care (in power) and news network could be giving human rights the spotlight it deserves, they just won't.

So most people outside that zone are obviously unaware.
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My point though is that half the shit we see on TV and what not - most people wouldn't care about if it wasn't drilled into their head by someone that has a big R or D next to their name.

People are just insensitive to anything that isn't told to them that its a very big deal and or its something they should be worried about etc...

Hence the vast amount of people that don't like "Obama care" but support the "affordable care act"
Completely clueless

just regurgitate anything they see pundits screeching about and act like they give a dam or like it directly affects them and death to anyone that has another opinion that isn't my own or shared by my party.

Went off on a tangent there. Back on topic though this world is spiralling out of control
 
What can be done? Ummmm obviously a lot. It could be stopped.

We stopped genocide in Darfur really quickly. We've intervened all over the world. America and West can stop this. They don't want to because they don't care. Thats the truth.

Sanctions. International pressure. Diplomatic isolation. And bomb them, and have Aung indicted by the international court.

There is A LOT that can be done. Problem is no one cares to do anything. If our media and politicians don't drum up interest, the public never will since they are just some Asian minority. That is not a group people tend to care about too much, especially Rohingya.
 
In the next violent blur of moments, the soldiers clubbed Rajuma in the face, tore her screaming child out of her arms and hurled him into a fire. She was then dragged into a house and gang-raped.

By the time the day was over, she was running through a field naked and covered in blood. Alone, she had lost her son, her mother, her two sisters and her younger brother, all wiped out in front of her eyes, she says.

Rajuma is a Rohingya Muslim, one of the most unwanted ethnic groups on earth, and she now spends her days drifting through a refugee camp in Bangladesh in a daze.
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I am livid. This is rape of nanking. This is ethnic cleansing.
 
Honest question for everyone: how can you read this and not be devoured by the feeling that you're obligated to try to do something about it?

I'm 25. Working at my first job as a programmer. When I read this I just feel like I'm doing the wrong thing with my life. I'm trying to get back to my work in the middle of the day and it all just feels so insignificant right now.

People will say that I should just donate, but that feels like such a cop-out. Donating and good wishes is what everyone does, and look where it's gotten us. It feels morally wrong for me to not try to do everything I can to help people who are going through this sort of suffering.

I'm happy with my personal life. I have a boyfriend, a dog, and my mom, and I love them all very much. But that only makes me think about how I would do anything to protect them. I would do anything for my boyfriend because we love each other. My mom would do anything for me because we love each other. These are relationships that mean so much to me, and here they are being ripped apart on a scale that defies comprehension. Mothers losing sons, lovers losing each other. If I realize how powerful these relationships can be, if I would do anything to preserve them for myself, shouldn't I try to preserve them for other people?

I can always try to look away. I can look into my boyfriends eyes and play video games and laugh and focus on all the happiness around me. But this is also part of reality. Looking away doesn't make this suffering any less real. These atrocities are as real as anything I experience myself. Looking away is lying to myself.
 
Shadowhelper said:
What can be done? Ummmm obviously a lot. It could be stopped.

We stopped genocide in Darfur really quickly. We've intervened all over the world. America and West can stop this. They don't want to because they don't care. Thats the truth.

Sanctions. International pressure. Diplomatic isolation. And bomb them, and have Aung indicted by the international court.

There is A LOT that can be done. Problem is no one cares to do anything. If our media and politicians don't drum up interest, the public never will since they are just some Asian minority. That is not a group people tend to care about too much, especially Rohingya.
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It's hard to bomb religious and sectarian violence away.
Depends on your interpretation of success in Kosovo I guess.
Though a strong UN peacekeeping show of force like in Cyprus might help.
 
Muslim minorities brutally oppressed in non Muslim minorities fairly commonly, and its always allowed to continue. This is part of a pattern of racism that many countries around the world are complicit.

The media just doesn't care usually. There has been no urgency for the Rohingya from any news organisation.
 
Shadowhelper said:
What can be done? Ummmm obviously a lot. It could be stopped.

We stopped genocide in Darfur really quickly. We've intervened all over the world. America and West can stop this. They don't want to because they don't care. Thats the truth.

Sanctions. International pressure. Diplomatic isolation. And bomb them, and have Aung indicted by the international court.

There is A LOT that can be done. Problem is no one cares to do anything. If our media and politicians don't drum up interest, the public never will since they are just some Asian minority. That is not a group people tend to care about too much, especially Rohingya.
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I'm tired of seeing my fellow countrymen come home in body bags and getting gunned down at home by terrorists. The world needs to solve its own damn problems, cuz invasions don't do shit except make things worse.
 
Kthulhu said:
I'm tired of seeing my fellow countrymen come home in body bags and getting gunned down at home by terrorists. The world needs to solve its own damn problems, cuz invasions don't do shit except make things worse.
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Did you even read my post? There is many ways to respond without force that is not even being considered. The threat for force is also very powerful without it having to be used. I would say the problem is so many dog whistling racists so eager not to help minorities they obviously hold resentment and racism towards.
Sinfamy said:
It's hard to bomb religious and sectarian violence away.
Depends on your interpretation of success in Kosovo I guess.
Though a strong UN peacekeeping show of force like in Cyprus might help.
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What do you mean? Stopped genocide in Kosovo. Stopped genocide in Darfur. Of course it can be done.

Bombing is not the only way. This genocide has been going on for a while and we don't even have sanctions. Can't argue how difficult it is when we haven't even tried.

Violence against Muslim minorities, committed by non Muslim majorities very very rarely counts. Its time to change that. At the very least the most strict sanctions are needed. But the EU and west isn't even considering it.

Not helping the Rohingya is just pure racism unfortunately. If the Rohingya were doing this to innocent Buddhists, there would be a social media campaign, it would be all over the papers, and there would be diplomatic, economic and military repercussions from all over the world. Fact.
 
Kthulhu said:
I'm tired of seeing my fellow countrymen come home in body bags and getting gunned down at home by terrorists. The world needs to solve its own damn problems, cuz invasions don't do shit except make things worse.
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Lately sure... But alot of "invasions" have led to good and were necessary.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

- i believe that's the exact wording
 
Shadowhelper said:
Did you even read my post? There is many ways to respond without force that is not even being considered. The threat for force is also very powerful without it having to be used. I would say the problem is so many dog whistling racists so eager not to help minorities they obviously hold resentment and racism towards.


What do you mean? Stopped genocide in Kosovo. Stopped genocide in Darfur. Of course it can be done.

Bombing is not the only way. This genocide has been going on for a while and we don't even have sanctions. Can't argue how difficult it is when we haven't even tried.

Violence against Muslim minorities, committed by non Muslim majorities very very rarely counts. Its time to change that. At the very least the most strict sanctions are needed. But the EU and west isn't even considering it.

Not helping the Rohingya is just pure racism unfortunately. If the Rohingya were doing this to innocent Buddhists, there would be a social media campaign, it would be all over the papers, and there would be diplomatic, economic and military repercussions from all over the world. Fact.
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So then what does "the west" do if the threats are ignored? Do we invade then?
 
Shadowhelper said:
Did you even read my post? There is many ways to respond without force that is not even being considered. The threat for force is also very powerful without it having to be used. I would say the problem is so many dog whistling racists so eager not to help minorities they obviously hold resentment and racism towards.


What do you mean? Stopped genocide in Kosovo. Stopped genocide in Darfur. Of course it can be done.

Bombing is not the only way. This genocide has been going on for a while and we don't even have sanctions. Can't argue how difficult it is when we haven't even tried.

Violence against Muslim minorities, committed by non Muslim majorities very very rarely counts. Its time to change that. At the very least the most strict sanctions are needed. But the EU and west isn't even considering it.

Not helping the Rohingya is just pure racism unfortunately. If the Rohingya were doing this to innocent Buddhists, there would be a social media campaign, it would be all over the papers, and there would be diplomatic, economic and military repercussions from all over the world. Fact.
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I'm all for sanctions and shit, there's no reason not to, but let's also be real and realize these will be symbolic. Only invading and occupying their country will put a hard stop to this, and only advanced decade or more long nation building far, far more professional than what was done in Iraq will prevent it from starting up again when "we" (the armies of the west) leave.

So the question is, would you vote for a full scale invasion of Burma if given the opportunity?
 
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/07/myanmar-rohingya-refugees-trump-response-242442

This is a month old. It seems the White House is not too interested in the crisis. Members of Congress have spoke out though.

McCain also appealed to Suu Kyi in a Sept. 5 letter: "If you take steps to hold the military and other human rights violators accountable for their actions, you will have my full support and I will work with my colleagues in the Senate to ensure that your government has the assistance it requires to do so," wrote McCain, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee and has taken a longtime interest in Myanmar's political progress.
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N7 MRP Weasel said:
Invade is a big word, but military pressure could end this without a single bullet being fired, but some motherfuckers just need killing so whoever orchestrated the entire shabang should be smoked
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No form of military pressure would ever be possible so close to China.
 
Nivash said:
The only western country that even remotely has the ability to intervene in Asia is the US. Europe can't deploy in force that far from home anymore (or, hell, at all really - remember Libya?) and the ANZACs just don't have the power, the logistics or anything else needed to take on what is, after all, a fairly competent and semi-modern military.

So it's basically down to this: are you saying you want Trump to invade Myanmar?
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Nivash said:
Which is what, exactly? Take away the foreign aid they aren't recieving anyway? Impose trade sanctions on a nation that only really trades with China in the first place? Write them a strongly worded letter and condemn them in the UN? Take away Aung San Suu Kyi's Nobel Peace Prize? Ask China to make them stop, using the complete lack of leverage the west evidently has over China if North Korea is any indication?

This is what a multi-polar world looks like. Staring in horror at atrocities committed far away and knowing you can't really do anything about it, because the only people who can don't give a shit.
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Yeah, the NATO operation in Libya was... well, disappointing is not strong enough of a word. It's kind of weird how we went from an effective Balkins operation to what we got in Libya.

Or maybe get India/Bangladesh to do something, who knows?
 
Showaddy said:
No form of military pressure would ever be possible so close to China.
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There are thousands upon thousands of US troops permantely stationed in Korea mainland Japan, Okinawa Japan and many more spread out across the pacific at smaller installations.

I'd say Korea is pretty close to china.
 
g23 said:
Can't Bangladesh do anything to me intervene? Or Pakistan?
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Well Bangladesh is allowing them to cross the border and stay, as well as providing food/relief/medicine etc.

They are not in a position to start a military conflict with Myanmar. I think China, Pakistan and India could impose severe political pressure, along with the western countries. There doesn't have to be a military solution.
 
SRG01 said:
Yeah, the NATO operation in Libya was... well, disappointing is not strong enough of a word. It's kind of weird how we went from an effective Balkins operation to what we got in Libya.

Or maybe get India/Bangladesh to do something, who knows?
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The same India that's planning to deport tens of of thousands of Rohingya refugees right back into the slaughter?

https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/10/03/asia/india-delhi-rohingya-refugee/index.html

The same Bangladesh that's still picking up the pieces after the getting hit and with three consecutive devastating floods?

http://www.atimes.com/article/bangladesh-devastated-third-flood-incurs-severe-losses/

(and who probably couldn't take on Myanmar in a straight fight even if they tried)

EDIT: and the reason Libya was a flop where the Balkans wasn't has a pretty straight-forward explanation: it's spelled "a decade of European disarmament".

DOUBLE EDIT: also spelled "Iraq".
 
Kthulhu said:
I'm tired of seeing my fellow countrymen come home in body bags and getting gunned down at home by terrorists. The world needs to solve its own damn problems, cuz invasions don't do shit except make things worse.
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That's pretty callous. Fuck those people I guess?
 
All around the world people are taught that groups other than them are subhuman. With that state of mind, they have no problem committing atrocities, because they're not doing it to humans.

It's sickening.
 
Oberon said:
I wonder how much people get taught about colonialism in british schools ( or any school for that matter because we barelly touched that subject)

edit: Things like this makes me think Nazi Germany and their concentration camps wouldn't have been stopped if they didn't just happen to take place in Europe
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We don’t get taught it at all. The empire is generally looked upon as a good thing by many people. It’s disgusting.

Heck, we were using concentration camps in the Boer War long before the Nazi’s came along.
 
Chmpocalypse said:
That's pretty callous. Fuck those people I guess?
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Basically that's how a lot of countries feel.

First world nations see nothing to be gained from intervening except more bloodshed and bad PR.

Maybe if they discover oil underneath Myanmar they'll start caring?

🤔
 
Chmpocalypse said:
That's pretty callous. Fuck those people I guess?
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I won't speak for that other guy, but as a 20-something living in the US my entire life, I haven't really known a time where we weren't at war. When you grew up in and around the mess that was the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, you start to have a tendency to really want to avoid sending soldiers into anything that we can avoid sending soldiers into. I fully support economic sanctions and most other means of trying to stop these atrocities, but it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where I want to send in US troops and start another war. I don't know what the correct course of action is, but I'd like boots on the ground to be one of the last resorts.
 
N7 MRP Weasel said:
There are thousands upon thousands of US troops permantely stationed in Korea mainland Japan, Okinawa Japan and many more spread out across the pacific at smaller installations.

I'd say Korea is pretty close to china.
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You want Trump to be in charge of US military presence over there?

edit: let me restate it: Trump is in charge of US military presence. I don't think its wise to let Trump be involve in this. Cause he's a dumb fuck and prob make things worst somehow...
 
Terrifying read. I feel sick.

The world has failed these people. And despite living in the era of information, we still do nothing.

This is ethnic cleansing, and we don't care. They're brown and they're Muslim, so their lives are worth less.
 
Something tells me at least one 'civilized' country is selling arms to Burma ATM.

2bdf18cdbc5d4805bad294986d34050f_6.jpg
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The least we can do as individuals is donate to relief efforts for the refugees who escape to Bangladesh. We should also urge our elected representatives to take action.

Soka said:
I won't speak for that other guy, but as a 20-something living in the US my entire life, I haven't really known a time where we weren't at war. When you grew up in and around the mess that was the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, you start to have a tendency to really want to avoid sending soldiers into anything that we can avoid sending soldiers into. I fully support economic sanctions and most other means of trying to stop these atrocities, but it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where I want to send in US troops and start another war. I don't know what the correct course of action is, but I'd like boots on the ground to be one of the last resorts.
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NATO suffered zero military casualties in Yugoslavia stopping the Serbians from carrying on in their genocide. We can stop mass murder without a ground invasion/occupation, particularly now that we have drones. The US/world can demonstrate that there are penalties for Myanmar's bad behavior, through done strikes, economic sanctions, and Chinese pressure.
 
Kthulhu said:
I'm tired of seeing my fellow countrymen come home in body bags and getting gunned down at home by terrorists. The world needs to solve its own damn problems, cuz invasions don't do shit except make things worse.
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Yeah. America is stuck in this lose lose situation of being the World Police. People dont want them to be the world police. When they intervene, there will be people who get pissed off when they come to their country. It becomes Iraq all over again. Take down Saddam, you get a bunch of groups popping up that are counter to Americas intervention.

And when America does nothing, they get critiqued. Do something! Bomb them! Send the military in! Impose sanctions that do little!

Obviously in this case the EU or other countries can intervene in Myanmar. But they wont.

Its a tough situation. As humans this brutality should be stopped. But in reality its hard to intervene and not get blowback.
 
Thats horrifying.

I cannot believe that no country is doing anything to stop this.

If Burma can get away with this in front of the whole world what is to stop the next country from a successful genocide?
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Yeah. America is stuck in this lose lose situation of being the World Police. People dont want them to be the world police. When they intervene, there will be people who get pissed off when they come to their country. It becomes Iraq all over again. Take down Saddam, you get a bunch of groups popping up that ate counter to Americas intervention.

And when America does nothing, they get critiqued. Do something! Bomb them! Send the military in!

Obviously in this case the EU or other countries can intervene in Myanmar. But they wont.

Its a tough situation. As humans this brutality should be stopped. But in reality its hard to intervene and not get blowback.
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Pretty much how I see it. Help them or do noting, the world will blame America somehow. Regardless its prob better for America's interest if we do noting since we have a fucking dumbass in charge currently.
I type that in pain knowing what is happening.
 
I'm from Bangladesh. I've worked in Myanmar. Myanmar has been doing this for decades, pushing them into Bangladesh whenever they feel like it. The Rohingya are seriously the most systematically oppressed minority in the world. The government straight-up revoked their citizenship in the 80's. There are restrictions on where they can live, how they can have children. And now there's a systematic pogrom.

And after decades of this, there's surprise surprise, armed resistance, which the Myanmar government is of-course using as a "fighting the terrorist" canard.
 
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